Jawmuncher
Member
That's a good point. Had I been subjected to playing it as a purely SP game. I wouldn't have even put 5 hours into it.
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Two years later, how do you feel about Smash 4?
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That's a good point. Had I been subjected to playing it as a purely SP game. I wouldn't have even put 5 hours into it.
RichiRamjag
Member
Great game, but online is useless for me with the constant lag from other players.
I would say the exact opposite.
The characters look great, and the game has a fantastic aesthetic. Otherwise, you'd have styles across all of these different games and franchises clashing with each other. It's far from bland.
The competitive scene still wouldn't have gone for stages without hazard toggle. Hell, they almost banned Final Destination. The Omega Stages were supposed to be for competitive events, but no one uses em.
As someone involved in the competitive scene for Melee to a certain extent (though I'm a scrub), it's an awesome game judged on its own merits but I have little desire to revisit it again. In terms of characters, presentation, stages, single-player content, etc., it's pretty unrivaled in terms of fan service. There's also a lot to do here. If I were a kid when it came out I think it would have kept me busy with FFAs for friends and single-player for a ridiculous amount of time.
But I've had my fill of FFAs/single-player content after having grown up with the first three games and spending all the time I needed to with that. As a competitive game it's alright, very rooted in fundamentals and the neutral, but its limited movement mechanics just make the game less satisfying to play than Melee. And the fact that it has less hitstun really makes the combo game a lot less interesting as well. Also none of the characters "click," for me like Marth does in Melee.
But I've had my fill of FFAs/single-player content after having grown up with the first three games and spending all the time I needed to with that. As a competitive game it's alright, very rooted in fundamentals and the neutral, but its limited movement mechanics just make the game less satisfying to play than Melee. And the fact that it has less hitstun really makes the combo game a lot less interesting as well. Also none of the characters "click," for me like Marth does in Melee.
PrinnyBomb
Member
by far the best entry in the series. although i havent played the 3ds version once since buying the wii u copy, i still play the game very frequently, with roommates and friends.
can't see myself stopping for a long time. incredible roster (still can't get over shulk being in smash 4)
can't see myself stopping for a long time. incredible roster (still can't get over shulk being in smash 4)
Best Smash.
The race to the top (SS) tier arms race that Melee Fox demanded trashes half of an entire cast and turned Project M into Project Marvel. Taking a step back and developing a design space where many more character archetypes can exist and be relatively competitive is a much greater takeaway for me.
The race to the top (SS) tier arms race that Melee Fox demanded trashes half of an entire cast and turned Project M into Project Marvel. Taking a step back and developing a design space where many more character archetypes can exist and be relatively competitive is a much greater takeaway for me.
From a fandom perspective? A+ work realizing characters.
From a gameplay perspective? It was never that impressive to begin with and my copies been sitting in a bargain bin at Gamestop since Pokken came out. Can't even stand to watch it, just turn the screen off when it comes on at a tourney. If a new one came that didn't regress in stupid ways, 80% of the player base would move on.
It's super floaty, hate no momentum conservation, characters feel slow and like hits do nothing. Would rather play 64, Melee, or PM.
This too.
From a gameplay perspective? It was never that impressive to begin with and my copies been sitting in a bargain bin at Gamestop since Pokken came out. Can't even stand to watch it, just turn the screen off when it comes on at a tourney. If a new one came that didn't regress in stupid ways, 80% of the player base would move on.
It's super floaty, hate no momentum conservation, characters feel slow and like hits do nothing. Would rather play 64, Melee, or PM.
This too.
Acerac
Banned
I love how many people hate bottom tier characters in this game.
DecoReturns
Member
The only thing that's worries me is what happens when Smash 5 comes out (I consider Smash 3DS and Wii U as 4), what happens to the DLC characters.
Are the Nintendo own characters back on the roster normally?
Is Ruy and Cloud gone?
Mewtwo?
Are the Nintendo own characters back on the roster normally?
Is Ruy and Cloud gone?
Mewtwo?
The game is just brimming with content that it makes me exhausted. And I'm sure that when they reveal Smash 4 Remastered for Switch with all 3DS/Wii U stages, shared modes, more music, fixed the awful menus and mode placement, and more characters like Ice Climbers and Dixie Kong that should've been there in the first place, it will be perfect-er.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Granted, I haven't tried since near-launch, but I never saw the bolded. Lag when I played was so bad that spamming wide ranging moves was an unbeatable strategy because they simply couldn't be punished.
Maybe it got better or all the people with terrible connections quit playing.
Ryu's Capcom, so he has as much of a chance to return as Mega Man. Cloud's honestly the only real concern.
This is not universal across the cast. But obviously, you mean Falcon and Fox don't have it. And lol at "hits do nothing".
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I honesty dont knowwhat to do to a skilled lil mac he too fast and just keep throwing out punches with no punishment
How many characters have momentum conservation (like when you run and jump and keep the speed in Melee/PM)?. And I said it feels like it, compared to 64/Melee/Brawl, which I played daily a year ago. It's completely subjective.
entremet
Member
A skilled Little Mac is a tough one. Plus that godly dodge. Play more of them.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I think my friend is legit the best one Ive ever played and he keep smacking me with him
Hypemaster
Member
Play me and find out
Cow Mengde
Banned
It doesn't have Snake, so it's already better than Brawl. I don't know if I would consider it the best yet simply because it's only been 2 years. It's definitely up there though.
I found the older Mario Kart powersliding a lot more engaging than the new. Not that it didn't lead to problems with the DS entry, but the added interactivity felt significantly more rewarding than what's left of it now. Wavedashing, while certainly more difficult to pickup, was similar in that it made Melee a more interactive and dynamic game. Like Mario Kart, there really hasn't been an addition to the core Smash gameplay that has made up for what has been stripped down or cut throughout the years, intentional or not. For me to have any interest in the next installment Nintendo has to present some new and exciting game mechanics again. And by that I don't mean remixing or simplifying exisiting systems that a part of the player base had problems with.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Best Smash game of all time. I don't see how Nintendo's gonna top this one.
Spinosaurus
Member
I just wish the game isn't so neutral heavy and that invincible frames aren't as dumb as they are.
Being at an advantageous position just...doesn't feel as actually advantageous as it should be, and it makes a lot of character that can't capitalize on opponent's mistakes not rewarding to play. The way the mechanics work favor characters with mobility and better frame data way too much. Ryu was supposed to be an exception but people finally figured him out sooo lol
I might just pick up Bayonetta. She's the only character that isn't limited by the mechanics because of the way Witch Twist and Witch Time work.
Being at an advantageous position just...doesn't feel as actually advantageous as it should be, and it makes a lot of character that can't capitalize on opponent's mistakes not rewarding to play. The way the mechanics work favor characters with mobility and better frame data way too much. Ryu was supposed to be an exception but people finally figured him out sooo lol
I might just pick up Bayonetta. She's the only character that isn't limited by the mechanics because of the way Witch Twist and Witch Time work.
Even as someone who loved Melee without knowing what a wavedash was or anything about combos, something had always felt...off to me with Brawl..
Smash 4 fixed that, and added about a billion characters and the best balance in the series. It's easily my favorite. Although I honestly wish I could get into Melee sometimes, but I realize these guys have been playing the game for 15 years, and I wonder why bother lol.
Smash 4 fixed that, and added about a billion characters and the best balance in the series. It's easily my favorite. Although I honestly wish I could get into Melee sometimes, but I realize these guys have been playing the game for 15 years, and I wonder why bother lol.
FlaygletheBagel
Banned
Best Smash gameplay and best roster ever. Some of the new modes they added were a little ill-conceived (Smash Tour is an utter mess and I hated Target Blast as a substitute for the traditional "Break the Targets"), plus some of the 8-player maps were atrociously bad (Great Cave Offensive, I'm looking at you), but overall it's easily the best in the Smash franchise.
Really hoping for a "complete edition" Switch port, and hopefully with a synthesis of the Wii U and 3DS stages, plus a new mode or two and a couple additional fighters/stages.
Really hoping for a "complete edition" Switch port, and hopefully with a synthesis of the Wii U and 3DS stages, plus a new mode or two and a couple additional fighters/stages.
Corronchilejano
Member
There's a lot of characters that people want in Smash, plus they could work around giving tournament players a special mode.
There's a lot of ways the game can evolve yet.
BassForever
Member
Amazing smash game only missing ice climbers and a subspace or adventure mode which would have made it perfect.
Agreed, It's such a good smash game.
The documentary actually brought a lot of new people into the scene, and Melee's growing eSports presence is bringing more people in. Two weeks ago a guy who's been playing for two years beat a top 10 in the world player. At local tournaments whenever I talk to people about how long they've been playing it's usually around a year or less than that. If you live in a somewhat populated area I'd recommend looking up Facebook groups for competitive Smash and seeing what your region is like, there's most likely a tournament within driving distance. Get there early and you can play lots of friendly (non-tournament) matches with people and ask for tips. I'm recommending this not just for Melee, but for any Smash game, especially if you enjoy playing For Glory in SSB4 (though Melee/S4 are by far the most active ones).
Also, this channel gives a lot of tutorials on Melee, some of which are completely newcomer friendly.
Geminosity
Member
My analysis of smash 4, by Gem
Roster:
* it's huge and filled with lots of iconic peeps both first and third party for those into those sorts of things :3
* it's the first entry in the smash series to add a character I genuinely find myself wanting to play (Female Corrin)
* Miis are an interesting idea but much like custom moves they were half-assed in their implementation (due to not being allowed online, not being able to carry costume pieces you bought over, etc)
* Palutena wasn't done very well. Moveset wise they gave her horrible defaults and some of her core moves are laughable, but even outside of that I feel they totally failed to capture her character anyway.
* Separating Zelda and Shiek was a good move, if you're not going to have fluid transitions between states ala Nightmare in Soul Calibur then don't bother at all.
Combat Environment:
* Items are FAR too lethal now. In previous entries you had to keep an eye out for the odd bob-omb or the like but it seems like half the things that drop now are just death incarnate, whether it's the drill arm of 'carried to the blastzone', the tiny beetle that's impossible to spot until it's too late when the camera is zoomed out, the gust jar of lulz, the kid icarus death beam cannon, etc.
* Stage Hazards really, REALLY need to be optional :/
* Walk-offs are not fun, whether you're competitive or not, it just encourages camping and yet there's a ton of them. Why?
Content
* Single player is forgettable. I think melee nailed it with its adventure mode
* Smash Run almost feels good but to be honest I enjoy the dungeon more than the events at the end
* Smash Tour is... meh? The idea is interesting in terms of moving around the board at the same time and whatnot but the actual smash matches in it feel random and unrewarding to me
* I don't care for any of the bonus games at all, they're a far cry from break the targets
* Tournaments were a good idea but terribly implemented
* Does anyone really care about conquest?
Mechanics
* I love the new offstage gameplay brought on by edge-trumping. I find it more interesting to both watch and play compared to how it was handled in the previous entries
* While rolling too much can be punished fairly consistently, I sometimes find myself surprised how small the window to punish predictable rolling is and with online lag it can turn eye-roll inducing at times, especially with certain characters
* The removal of tripping was obviously a good thing :3
* I'm glad it doesn't have L-Cancelling (in my opinion it's a silly mechanic that should be automatic, not an arbitrary button press)
* I'm glad it doesn't have wavedashing (in my opinion they should just fix dashing so it accomplishes what people wavedash to do, rather than relying on a bunch of button presses to bandaid what's wrong)
Misc
* Amiibo implementation leaves me cold. Could've used it to transfer your nametag and settings, maybe even custom characters buuuuuut no... instead it's some pet AI thing that doesn't even really need the amiibo to have worked as an idea.
* Outside of maybe on the Miis, custom moves just don't really work well. Their balance is often questionable, some seem like they were added to just make up the numbers, unlocking them is a pain and ultimately I just feel they could've spent the dev time better elsewhere :/
Summary
* while I have a list of nitpicks a mile long, it's my favourite smash. It's just there's a ton of room for improvement or refinement :3
Roster:
* it's huge and filled with lots of iconic peeps both first and third party for those into those sorts of things :3
* it's the first entry in the smash series to add a character I genuinely find myself wanting to play (Female Corrin)
* Miis are an interesting idea but much like custom moves they were half-assed in their implementation (due to not being allowed online, not being able to carry costume pieces you bought over, etc)
* Palutena wasn't done very well. Moveset wise they gave her horrible defaults and some of her core moves are laughable, but even outside of that I feel they totally failed to capture her character anyway.
* Separating Zelda and Shiek was a good move, if you're not going to have fluid transitions between states ala Nightmare in Soul Calibur then don't bother at all.
Combat Environment:
* Items are FAR too lethal now. In previous entries you had to keep an eye out for the odd bob-omb or the like but it seems like half the things that drop now are just death incarnate, whether it's the drill arm of 'carried to the blastzone', the tiny beetle that's impossible to spot until it's too late when the camera is zoomed out, the gust jar of lulz, the kid icarus death beam cannon, etc.
* Stage Hazards really, REALLY need to be optional :/
* Walk-offs are not fun, whether you're competitive or not, it just encourages camping and yet there's a ton of them. Why?
Content
* Single player is forgettable. I think melee nailed it with its adventure mode
* Smash Run almost feels good but to be honest I enjoy the dungeon more than the events at the end
* Smash Tour is... meh? The idea is interesting in terms of moving around the board at the same time and whatnot but the actual smash matches in it feel random and unrewarding to me
* I don't care for any of the bonus games at all, they're a far cry from break the targets
* Tournaments were a good idea but terribly implemented
* Does anyone really care about conquest?
Mechanics
* I love the new offstage gameplay brought on by edge-trumping. I find it more interesting to both watch and play compared to how it was handled in the previous entries
* While rolling too much can be punished fairly consistently, I sometimes find myself surprised how small the window to punish predictable rolling is and with online lag it can turn eye-roll inducing at times, especially with certain characters
* The removal of tripping was obviously a good thing :3
* I'm glad it doesn't have L-Cancelling (in my opinion it's a silly mechanic that should be automatic, not an arbitrary button press)
* I'm glad it doesn't have wavedashing (in my opinion they should just fix dashing so it accomplishes what people wavedash to do, rather than relying on a bunch of button presses to bandaid what's wrong)
Misc
* Amiibo implementation leaves me cold. Could've used it to transfer your nametag and settings, maybe even custom characters buuuuuut no... instead it's some pet AI thing that doesn't even really need the amiibo to have worked as an idea.
* Outside of maybe on the Miis, custom moves just don't really work well. Their balance is often questionable, some seem like they were added to just make up the numbers, unlocking them is a pain and ultimately I just feel they could've spent the dev time better elsewhere :/
Summary
* while I have a list of nitpicks a mile long, it's my favourite smash. It's just there's a ton of room for improvement or refinement :3
Elfforkusu
Member
The best SP mode (Smash Run) is 3DS exclusive, so that's weird.
Gameplay itself is the best among all the Smash games, IMO. Yes, better than Melee.
Gameplay itself is the best among all the Smash games, IMO. Yes, better than Melee.
Double dipped. Spent 80+ hours of the 3DS version. Only spent about 25 on the Wii U version. Even though the Wii U version was superior, I was burnt out by the time it came out. I didn't get any of the DLC as I had already spent $100 on Smash and had no desire to spend more.
If the rumored Switch version comes with everything included and does enough extra, I might just triple dip.
If the rumored Switch version comes with everything included and does enough extra, I might just triple dip.
Depends who you play. As an Ice Climber main I rarely try my hardest because it can hurt doing all that dashing.
MisterAnderson
Member
Too many sword users IMO.
Ultimadrago
Member
This is sorta where I am. That said, I don't dislike the game, quite the contrary in fact. I like it, but I don't love it. The character reveal trailers were the best part of the whole experience. The game itself at least doesn't make me want to instantly stop playing shorty after playing like Brawl. However, I don't find myself wanting to return to it much at all due to the combat.
I'm still there for the next console release (I think).
LordKasual
Banned
My big problem with Smash 4 vs. Brawl is that Smash 4 was the more or less the death of obtaining and maintaining an advantage. Smash 4 added some hitstun but its combos are ultimately worthless for serving their purpose because Smash 4's mechanics are slanted entirely in favor of the losing player.
We no longer have special cancels. Feels extremely ugly for characters who used to have them, like Falco, Link, ect. Samus, ect.
We no longer have shield push, which means the aggressor is typically freely punished, even without perfect shield. This leads meta to favor those with really low landing lag and good recovery data. (Hi Sheik, hi Diddy, hi Mario)
We no longer have edgefalling, which means this new overbuffed shield can even be used on the edge of platforms without the defender losing any advantage.
We no longer have edgehogging, which is supplemented with a ridiculous ledge snap range. Recovery for majority of characters is basically free. Against MOST characters you are literally putting yourself in danger by attempting to edgeguard them.
We no longer have lasing shield damage. Basically you can almost have your shield broken, run away and be at near 100%.
Rolls are overbuffed just as much as shields are. Majority of characters can roll the distance of the stage as fast / faster than they can sprint. They are notoriously hard to punish now. Combined with the shield regen, the concept of shield pressure is essentially completely gone.
Shield pokes are almost nonexistent. In part due to shield regeneration, but im sure its just a change to the mechanic.
Rage mechanic gives a ridiculous buff to the player losing the match. Further trivializes holding an advantage.
I could keep going. But basically, pick a character (any character) that existed in both Smash 4 and Brawl. The Brawl incarnation has far more depth to their gameplan than they do in Smash 4. For all of Brawl's horrible shortcomings, it was just much better to master than Smash 4, which is basically one massive neutral game.
Frankenstrat
Member
Bad SP, consistently laggy online for me, but damn if it isn't fun to pick up with Marth. Behind Melee/PM/64, ahead of Brawl.
I loved it for a while, but ended up getting pretty sick of it honestly.
-Too many annoying characters centered around keepaway gimmicks
-Too many random, non-nintendo characters for my taste
-Way too fucking many FE characters (again, for my tastes)
-Mega Man was an awesome inclusion, but he's just not very fun to play as
-No ice climbers
-Ruined Olimars metagame
-No Pokemon Trainer
-Stages lack variety
-Single player content is extremely lackluster
-Online play performs acceptably only in 1v1, and even then it's a crapshoot
-Limited online modes
-Defense is too good, making characters without safe pokes or KO grabs unviable
-Related to the last one, but like half of the fucking cast has parries. They either need to limit it to a couple characters or make it a universal system. Annoying as hell.
-Huge gap between characters w/ confirms into KO and those without
-Final smashes are still totally unbalanced crap
-Too many annoying characters centered around keepaway gimmicks
-Too many random, non-nintendo characters for my taste
-Way too fucking many FE characters (again, for my tastes)
-Mega Man was an awesome inclusion, but he's just not very fun to play as
-No ice climbers
-Ruined Olimars metagame
-No Pokemon Trainer
-Stages lack variety
-Single player content is extremely lackluster
-Online play performs acceptably only in 1v1, and even then it's a crapshoot
-Limited online modes
-Defense is too good, making characters without safe pokes or KO grabs unviable
-Related to the last one, but like half of the fucking cast has parries. They either need to limit it to a couple characters or make it a universal system. Annoying as hell.
-Huge gap between characters w/ confirms into KO and those without
-Final smashes are still totally unbalanced crap
Overall: Better than Brawl, but still not a game that I find myself wanting to return to.
3DS Version got more gameplay out of me due to its portability.
Wii U version looks better but I didn't play it nearly as much as the 3DS version due to myself not having as much time to sit down and play console games anymore.
I hugely dislike the expensive DLC, I'd rather it was all built into the games if possible, like Melee.
Some of the character inclusion choices were really odd and too Japan-centric. Fire Emblem is over-represented in Smash 4 and it's obnoxious if you don't care about that particular series.
Speaking of Melee, I sorely miss the Adventure mode. Smash 4's single player left a lot to be desired and I had no motivation to play much of it, which is what led to the game's short shelf life for me.
3DS Version got more gameplay out of me due to its portability.
Wii U version looks better but I didn't play it nearly as much as the 3DS version due to myself not having as much time to sit down and play console games anymore.
I hugely dislike the expensive DLC, I'd rather it was all built into the games if possible, like Melee.
Some of the character inclusion choices were really odd and too Japan-centric. Fire Emblem is over-represented in Smash 4 and it's obnoxious if you don't care about that particular series.
Speaking of Melee, I sorely miss the Adventure mode. Smash 4's single player left a lot to be desired and I had no motivation to play much of it, which is what led to the game's short shelf life for me.