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[Mik2121]

Anda xD Terminaremos dominando el mundo, mola tener un compatriota por aquí.

Anyway... technical school, we just do some simple 2D work, but they are pretty cool people so I'll ask my teachers if they can get me one of those.

It's very encouraging to see what other people can do in a short time and I thought UDK would be harder to start with so yeah, I'm motivated enough

As much as I'd like to do character design I find it incredibly hard compared to environment creation. In the future, who knows, but I'll focus on environments for now...

If I may ask, how did you end up in Japan...? I don't think I'm wrong when I say that leaving Spain is almost a must if you want to do something on the industry :/

Character design isn't harder or easier than environment design. It's different, and usually on the time you get to do one single character, you have to be able to make tons of environment props and whatnot. Of course, there are exceptions, like when you have to make random mobs that you need to create asap, or when they task you with making some main environment prop in which you can spend a few days.
For good character modeling, you need to learn how the muscles work, how the joints move, etc.. but for good environment modeling, you need to understand how things are built, how to correctly represent different materials like metal, plaster, sand, grass, etc..

As for how I ended up in Japan... I always wanted to come here, and when I first came (back in early 2006) Japan was still on the top of the industry, sadly things went to shit right after that, but hey.. there are still a lot of companies worth it, and I think in a few years some of the smaller companies that kinda disappeared still have a chance of coming back if they get their shit together, or start to buy each other and create larger companies.
Either way, I'm now starting to work here, got a job in the industry and I'll start in January, so wish me luck!
As for having to leave Spain... well, yeah. The only big company I can think of is MercurySteam Entertainment in Madrid, and also Tequila Works (in Madrid too, I think), but that one has yet to prove itself. They got some talented people in there though. But the couple Spaniards I know in the industry are all in the US and Canada. Guess you got a bigger chance of landing a job in either of those countries, or somewhere in Europe (Sweden, UK, The Netherlands..).

BTW, there's another guy called Raging Spaniard, he works at Gameloft NYC. He doesn't come to this thread, but he's on GAF almost on a daily basis I think, so you might be able to see him around somewhere else

 

[Risk Breaker]

Character design isn't harder or easier than environment design. It's different, and usually on the time you get to do one single character, you have to be able to make tons of environment props and whatnot. Of course, there are exceptions, like when you have to make random mobs that you need to create asap, or when they task you with making some main environment prop in which you can spend a few days.
For good character modeling, you need to learn how the muscles work, how the joints move, etc.. but for good environment modeling, you need to understand how things are built, how to correctly represent different materials like metal, plaster, sand, grass, etc..

As for how I ended up in Japan... I always wanted to come here, and when I first came (back in early 2006) Japan was still on the top of the industry, sadly things went to shit right after that, but hey.. there are still a lot of companies worth it, and I think in a few years some of the smaller companies that kinda disappeared still have a chance of coming back if they get their shit together, or start to buy each other and create larger companies.
Either way, I'm now starting to work here, got a job in the industry and I'll start in January, so wish me luck!
As for having to leave Spain... well, yeah. The only big company I can think of is MercurySteam Entertainment in Madrid, and also Tequila Works (in Madrid too, I think), but that one has yet to prove itself. They got some talented people in there though. But the couple Spaniards I know in the industry are all in the US and Canada. Guess you got a bigger chance of landing a job in either of those countries, or somewhere in Europe (Sweden, UK, The Netherlands..).

BTW, there's another guy called Raging Spaniard, he works at Gameloft NYC. He doesn't come to this thread, but he's on GAF almost on a daily basis I think, so you might be able to see him around somewhere else

Oh, yeah, I've seen him around but I wasn't sure his nick was representative of the truth. He's at Gameloft huh? Pretty cool

I was thinking of MercurySteam and some others, and while you have some opportunities here because there really isn't that much people interested in making videogames, I think I'd rather go abroad when (if ) I get a good portfolio and lucky enough to get a job.

Yep, I had in mind that I think for me the biggest difference on environments versus characters is all the variety and all the different stuff you can do. I'll eventually learn to model and animate even if just at a beginner level or at least that's my plan.

Lots of luck with that job by the way, really happy for you Hope you're successful in there.



Oh and BTW, I just remembered: Blizzard, I used Jump pads directly in UDK, you just have to add a JumpPad actor and then set a path node as its destination. I actually HAD TO use jump pads because a simple ladder volume wouldn't work for some reason

 

[Blizzard]

Oh and BTW, I just remembered: Blizzard, I used Jump pads directly in UDK, you just have to add a JumpPad actor and then set a path node as its destination. I actually HAD TO use jump pads because a simple ladder volume wouldn't work for some reason

Cool, I probably never even tried using ladder volumes. Of course I started mucking with the pawn physics and using my own early on since I like not using the normal UT3 stuff (and I wanted to do things like have my own customized jetpack).

 

[Mik2121]

Ladder Volumes are eaaaaaasyyyyyyy!!

I'm going to sleep now (2:40am here) but if nobody updates anything until tomorrow morning, I will create a small tutorial

 

[Blizzard]

Ladder Volumes are eaaaaaasyyyyyyy!!

I'm going to sleep now (2:40am here) but if nobody updates anything until tomorrow morning, I will create a small tutorial

Here are some links that I haven't tried, but probably might help people. (ladder tutorials)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhytuNKwQnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iFvL8J2W2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxu2-CqitfM
http://www.leveldesign-universe.com/en/tutorial/creation-dechelles-dans-ludk/
http://udkc.info/index.php?title=Tutorials:Ladders_and_Jump_Pads

 

[Risk Breaker]

Here are some links that I haven't tried, but probably might help people.
http://www.leveldesign-universe.com/en/tutorial/creation-dechelles-dans-ludk/

Oh snap, I forgot to rotate the volume when I tried that!

 

[Mik2121]

Welp, beaten then it seems

If you guys need help with something else...

 

[Risk Breaker]

Forgetting to set the orientation of a ladder volume is kinda embarrassing but I'm progressing thanks to Mik's video and Hourences web... set up a simple material with diffuse, specular and normal made from a picture I found with a few simple nodes here and there and well, according to my gf it actually looks like harsh cloth made of rope.

I also made a blocking volume (after trying to use a path blocking volume and thinking "y u no work") where the ladder is so that the camera doesn't clip through it and it actually looks like you're climbing it. Cheap solution but it works. Playing with Height Fog and the different kinds of light is fun, but I can't get the light shafts to look less exaggerated yet.

Today I guess it's time to do some real terrain, this time with landscape, instead of just messing around with the tool!

 

[Mik2121]

Forgetting to set the orientation of a ladder volume is kinda embarrassing but I'm progressing thanks to Mik's video and Hourences web... set up a simple material with diffuse, specular and normal made from a picture I found with a few simple nodes here and there and well, according to my gf it actually looks like harsh cloth made of rope.

I also made a blocking volume (after trying to use a path blocking volume and thinking "y u no work") where the ladder is so that the camera doesn't clip through it and it actually looks like you're climbing it. Cheap solution but it works. Playing with Height Fog and the different kinds of light is fun, but I can't get the light shafts to look less exaggerated yet.

Today I guess it's time to do some real terrain, this time with landscape, instead of just messing around with the tool!

Hey! I just noticed the last streaming got saved, but for some reason there are some Japanese voices included. I guess I had some podcast playing on the background without noticing (ustream likes to do that...). I will delete that video and make a new live stream today, so if you wanna take a look just lemme know

 

[Risk Breaker]

Hey! I just noticed the last streaming got saved, but for some reason there are some Japanese voices included. I guess I had some podcast playing on the background without noticing (ustream likes to do that...). I will delete that video and make a new live stream today, so if you wanna take a look just lemme know

Haha yeah I noticed, I thought it was some TV program or something. I will gladly take a look as I'm kinda struggling right now, setting up a test terrain material with Layer Blend, which works for the diffuse but not for the normal map. I then searched around and saw a dude using an instruction called simply Layer but I can't really find it on the latest version. I guess I will have to do without the normals or speculars for now...

 

[[Nintex]]

I was messing around with CryEngine before for a college project but it seems like we're going to use UDK instead. With that said outside of messing around with some standard assets I've never done much with UDK. So with a group of 5 we'll be roughly starting from scratch (we've got some experience with Unity including scripting and the likes, a texture guy and a model guy so that's at least covered). I also read up on UDK and I found out it uses Flash and actionscript for UI's so that bit of the development pipeline is accounted for as well.

Still with about 10 weeks to go for this project I wonder if it is doable to create it in UDK. The basic premise is a serious game in which you push smokers from smoking areas to non-smoking areas. My mates are keen to go for realism while I think it's better to go a bit more abstract so we don't get caught up in high poly modelling.

So what do you think UDK GAF? Are we again trying to challenge ourselves or should we run back to Unity like the rest of the class?

 

[Blizzard]

I was messing around with CryEngine before for a college project but it seems like we're going to use UDK instead. With that said outside of messing around with some standard assets I've never done much with UDK. So with a group of 5 we'll be roughly starting from scratch (we've got some experience with Unity including scripting and the likes, a texture guy and a model guy so that's at least covered). I also read up on UDK and I found out it uses Flash and actionscript for UI's so that bit of the development pipeline is accounted for as well.

Still with about 10 weeks to go for this project I wonder if it is doable to create it in UDK. The basic premise is a serious game in which you push smokers from smoking areas to non-smoking areas. My mates are keen to go for realism while I think it's better to go a bit more abstract so we don't get caught up in high poly modelling.

So what do you think UDK GAF? Are we again trying to challenge ourselves or should we run back to Unity like the rest of the class?

I recommend not going for realism with a student team and a 10-week deadline.

Try writing up a rough schedule for yourself so things are paced, and try to give yourself 2-4 extra weeks to polish things up. At least 2 of those weeks will presumably be spent finishing the game since it took longer than you expected, and the other 2 redoing something you thought would work before you ran into a brick wall with some UDK detail.

As long as you're okay with more stylized/gamey player models, I think it definitely sounds doable. Just DO NOT aim for the stars as a first project, try to lay out a schedule, and don't put things off to the last minute (which is why you allocate weeks to polish things). I would suggest that a polished yet slightly simpler game is better than a buggy, hard to use game that aimed too high as a first project.

People with more actual experience, feel free to correct me. =P

Also try to get some sort of simple gameplay going as soon as possible using either UDK bots or some sort of placeholders. Actually if you want, I think there is a free generic blocky human-shape package you could use for the smokers while you're experimenting. I can try to search it up for ya.

Once gameplay is there, your artists and modelers can keep going in the background, and seeing things in action keeps everyone motivated.

 

[Fezan]

Welp, beaten then it seems

If you guys need help with something else...

Well looks like i will be quoting you a lot in future

 

[[Nintex]]

I think there is a free generic blocky human-shape package you could use for the smokers while you're experimenting. I can try to search it up for ya.

That would be great, and thanks for the other tips as well.

Luckily me and these guys are quite motivated and we always try to make the impossible, possible. We've for example build a game in Unity that utilized a 3D-scanner to scan in your own characters and objects and our previous project was a WebGL Wikipedia/Google Images timeline tunnel.

 

[Mik2121]

Haha yeah I noticed, I thought it was some TV program or something. I will gladly take a look as I'm kinda struggling right now, setting up a test terrain material with Layer Blend, which works for the diffuse but not for the normal map. I then searched around and saw a dude using an instruction called simply Layer but I can't really find it on the latest version. I guess I will have to do without the normals or speculars for now...

Hahaha

If you're still around, I can do it so you can take a look. It's pretty easy though.

Well looks like i will be quoting you a lot in future

Feel free!. I'm not a veteran at all. Just finished studying and happened to land my first job on a nice company. But I still got TONS to learn, so hopefully we can help out each other

Which reminds me... I love how some companies (mostly Western companies) sometimes show A LOT of what they do and how they do it. Only a few Japanese companies here and there do that, and usually don't tell as much

 

[Blizzard]

That would be great, and thanks for the other tips as well.

Luckily me and these guys are quite motivated and we always try to make the impossible, possible. We've for example build a game in Unity that utilized a 3D-scanner to scan in your own characters and objects and our previous project was a WebGL Wikipedia/Google Images timeline tunnel.

Bear in mind I haven't actually done major projects, so I'm just offering suggestions that seem reasonable based on what I've seen of UDK, and my one (failed) game jam experience which didn't actually use UDK. If your team is very motivated you may do something amazing...but getting simple models and gameplay implemented early will still help you no matter what.

If you magically get the basic game with cartoony humans finished in 4 weeks and want to enhance stuff, you'll still have time to work from there. Good luck!

I'll try to find the placeholder materials and blocky shapes. I think they use a default UT3 skeletal mesh.

 

[Blizzard]

I found it!
http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/735711-LayOut-Starter-Kit

There is a link at the very end of the thread that appears to have the latest stuff. I can't compare the OP and the end of the thread at the moment so I am not sure what the difference may be, or if any animations etc. were added. There isn't much in it besides the blocky guys and some materials for layout, but maybe someone will find it useful.

 

[[Nintex]]

I found it!
http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/735711-LayOut-Starter-Kit

There is a link at the very end of the thread that appears to have the latest stuff. I can't compare the OP and the end of the thread at the moment so I am not sure what the difference may be, or if any animations etc. were added. There isn't much in it besides the blocky guys and some materials for layout, but maybe someone will find it useful.

Thanks a bunch

I'm going to mess around with this tommorow, I'll keep you guys updated on our progress

 

[(._.)]

http://www.3dmotive.com/training/udk/modular-building-workflow/

look at this scene and the tutorials about it. I could totally model and make that on my own with a little help from this site.

I'm getting a subscription.

They have a lot of really high quality tutorials and they seem to have added quite a bit of content to the site since I first saw it last August

 

[Mik2121]

http://www.3dmotive.com/training/udk/modular-building-workflow/

look at this scene and the tutorials about it. I could totally model and make that on my own with a little help from this site.

I'm getting a subscription.

They have a lot of really high quality tutorials and they seem to have added quite a bit of content to the site since I first saw it last August

Yep, I bought that video back when 3dmotive had the 'video purchase' model instead of the monthly fee thing. Really awesome videos btw

However, that building method, while good for background models or simple stuff (think Modern Warfare 3 environments, for example), it's not really all that good when it comes to more detailed stuff that might need custom UV mappings. Think of it like.. if you can build it out of boxes or other simple geometry, and a couple tiny extrudes here and there, this is good. Otherwise, not so much.

For example a lot of the environments in Gears of War aren't done like that, whereas probably a lot of the stuff in the COD and Battlefield games probably is.

 

[(._.)]

It will probably go as detailed as that model I posted which isn't super detailed. I could probably go a bit more detailed but I will see when I start messing with it tomorrow. I know there are plug ins that can unwrap models plus there are some tutorials on how to tile textures. I'm decent with photoshop so I think I should be good when it comes to textures. Hope to have a fairly detailed scene by the end of December. Will try and post previews in here.

 

[Mik2121]

It will probably go as detailed as that model I posted which isn't super detailed. I could probably go a bit more detailed but I will see when I start messing with it tomorrow. I know there are plug ins that can unwrap models plus there are some tutorials on how to tile textures. I'm decent with photoshop so I think I should be good when it comes to textures. Hope to have a fairly detailed scene by the end of December. Will try and post previews in here.

Well, you don't really need any plugins to unwrap stuff for environments. Most of it should be fairly easy (it gets harder when you're unwrapping creatures, humans, etc...). What's most important, I think, is being able to really convey the material properties (specularity, specular power, etc..).

 

[Risk Breaker]

Hmmm I have one simple and quick question... what advantages does landscape have over terrain? I find terrain to be much simpler and faster to use at first sight

 

[Mik2121]

Hmmm I have one simple and quick question... what advantages does landscape have over terrain? I find terrain to be much simpler and faster to use at first sight

Terrain is pretty much a legacy tool as of right now. Also, Landscape has more tools for actual terrain editing, and you can create some seriously LARGE environments with it. You can also go with small environments (like 31x31 units, or 63x63, all of which are fairly small), and once you get used it's quite fast to set up. All you need to do is get the material ready, apply it and there you go.

I haven't played around with it enough to be able to tell you the (probably) best stuff that differentiates it from Terrain Tool, but there seems to be some. Also, the fact that it's the current terrain editing tool being supported and updated, with 'Terrain Tool', as I said before, still there mostly because of support (legacy tool).

 

[Blizzard]

I did some very brief searching. Larger sizes, easier painting directly onto the landscape, and foliage support seem to be the advantages of landscape, plus it might get new features in the future whereas terrain might be phased out or only left as legacy support.

*edit*
It makes me so happy to see this thread semi-active again. :*) I hope some people are having fun and learning things from it.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Ah, I see. Bigger sizes, foliage support and I've found that it manages LOD better too. I guess I will have to get used to it one way or another

What looks like a pain in the ass is setting up the material with all those layers and I can't imagine how to use instances, like using the same grass material with a darker tone and things like that. I'm guessing you have to apply an expression directly to the base textures and create more than one layer from that on the terrain material... it may work but I'm not sure it's the most efficient way

Yeah it's very nice to see activity around here, I'm hoping (._.) keeps his word and shows us his work soon.

 

[Mik2121]

Ah, I see. Bigger sizes, foliage support and I've found that it manages LOD better too. I guess I will have to get used to it one way or another

What looks like a pain in the ass is setting up the material with all those layers and I can't imagine how to use instances, like using the same grass material with a darker tone and things like that. I'm guessing you have to apply an expression directly to the base textures and create more than one layer from that on the terrain material... it may work but I'm not sure it's the most efficient way

Yeah it's very nice to see activity around here, I'm hoping (._.) keeps his word and shows us his work soon.

If it's just a darker tone, you could always do vertex painting on top of it with black. I have not tried using the vertex painting tool on a landscape terrain, but maybe it works?

As for the material itself, what's exactly what's taking you so long? It's meant to be pretty much like making normal materials, except in the end you connect all the normal maps to one layer blend, all the diffuse to another, etc.. and then connect those to the actual material normal, diffuse, spec, etc.. slots.

 

[Risk Breaker]

If it's just a darker tone, you could always do vertex painting on top of it with black. I have not tried using the vertex painting tool on a landscape terrain, but maybe it works?

As for the material itself, what's exactly what's taking you so long? It's meant to be pretty much like making normal materials, except in the end you connect all the normal maps to one layer blend, all the diffuse to another, etc.. and then connect those to the actual material normal, diffuse, spec, etc.. slots.

Vertex painting, hm? I will try that!

Nah, I managed to create a basic 3-layers landscape terrain but I'm not too happy with the results, I'll play around a little more.

 

[Blizzard]

I'm super unfamiliar with landscapes so I'm not sure if it qualifies as "vertex painting", but I am pretty sure there is some sort of method to "paint" on the landscape in UDK itself to combine layers or materials. I believe one example was someone placing roads on a landscape and using a paintbrush technique to blend the edges of the landscape into a transparent area where the road borders were.

The main thing I tried to make was a giant cave in a rough bowl shape. I modeled it as a huge static mesh in the end since it wasn't modular and I wanted to be able to have a roof on top of it, but I never got it looking good either. I don't really know how one goes about texturing such huge things where the player could conceivably walk on the surface.

 

[Mik2121]

I'm super unfamiliar with landscapes so I'm not sure if it qualifies as "vertex painting", but I am pretty sure there is some sort of method to "paint" on the landscape in UDK itself to combine layers or materials. I believe one example was someone placing roads on a landscape and using a paintbrush technique to blend the edges of the landscape into a transparent area where the road borders were.

The main thing I tried to make was a giant cave in a rough bowl shape. I modeled it as a huge static mesh in the end since it wasn't modular and I wanted to be able to have a roof on top of it, but I never got it looking good either. I don't really know how one goes about texturing such huge things where the player could conceivably walk on the surface.

Well, what you do when using Landscape is vertex paint on top of it in the red, blue and green channels. I have not tried using more than 3 materials on a Landscape, but I'd guess it's impossible? Or maybe it uses some extra colors like purple or yellow...
What I meant is using the actual vertex painting tool (on the left menu, I think it's above the Landscape tool button) to paint just dark tones on top. It's not the best way to do it, but it could work.

 

[Mik2121]

3D Motive released a Foliage tutorial for UDK which seems to also include how to do trees and the like:

http://www.3dmotive.com/training/3ds-max/creating-foliage-for-udk/?cid=mc

I might get a 1month subscription just to grab this one, the material series and the Asset Workflow series. Bet there's something to learn from there even if I can do it already.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Mik will put you on the right track.

Listen to the man and prosper. Since listening to his advice I went from modeling pure crap, to reasonable stuff. Maybe not the most impressive, but a fuckton better than I use too.

XmasCard

Xmas card I did last year. I doubt it'd look even a fraction as good without his help.

edit: And yes my last name is Boor.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Unfortunately Mik I still use Blender lol.

 

[(._.)]

3ds max is free for three years yo^

 

[Thunder Monkey]

3ds max is free for three years yo^

Interesting.

 

[Mik2121]

Yeah, if you can, you should get the student license. It gives you access to all the Autodesk software

 

[Lime]

Yeah, but it's student licenses. Watermarks and all

 

[Blizzard]

Alas I graduated so I'll stick with Blender for now. Might be fun for some people though!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, but it's student licenses. Watermarks and all

Bleh.

I'll just stick with mah freewares.

 

[The M.O.B]

I got the student version of 3DS Max 2012 and I have no watermarks. I've render out in a bunch of different formats before and never a watermark, but apparently some render formats do have them.

 

[(._.)]

Yeah, but it's student licenses. Watermarks and all

Nobody here will probably be selling any models plus the water mark is pretty much just a pop up reminder that the model was made in a student version. You can import it into anything and use it like any other model.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Nobody here will probably be selling any models plus the water mark is pretty much just a pop up reminder that the model was made in a student version. You can import it into anything and use it like any other model.

I don't know about sell, but I have been making a game for the last three years. Before my psu fried at least. Replaced it to find that my HDD sounds way too grindy. Now in the process of backing up, and moving to a new drive.

 

[Mik2121]

Yeah, but it's student licenses. Watermarks and all

What? I have the Student versions of 2010 and 2012 and I can't remember seeing any watermarks? Do they show up in Rendering or where?

 

[CrazedArabMan]

What? I have the Student versions of 2010 and 2012 and I can't remember seeing any watermarks? Do they show up in Rendering or where?

Only thing student version does is when you open the file it pops up with a message saying this is a student version and that is it. You can import the models in anything else and you won't get a warning or anything, files work exactly the same way.

 

[Mik2121]

Only thing student version does is when you open the file it pops up with a message saying this is a student version and that is it. You can import the models in anything else and you won't get a warning or anything, files work exactly the same way.

Uhm... weird. I have exported my files as .obj and .fbx multiple times and even opened .max files on my school's 3DSMax (which had a different license) and also at my old workplace (which had whatever is the business license) and I never got a message showing up.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Uhm... weird. I have exported my files as .obj and .fbx multiple times and even opened .max files on my school's 3DSMax (which had a different license) and also at my old workplace (which had whatever is the business license) and I never got a message showing up.

I use Maya and it always shows up with that, but if you take it to a regular version and not a student version and save and open it on the regular version, you won't get the message. It really isn't anything that will affect the model at all really.

 

[(._.)]

You agree though in their TOS not to profit/sell. Do some publishers check indy games to make sure all the assets used are not breaking any copyright laws?

 

[Mik2121]

You agree though in their TOS not to profit/sell. Do some publishers check indy games to make sure all the assets used are not breaking any copyright laws?

Don't think so. Like they don't seem to care so much about people pirating their software (kinda like Adobe). I mean, sure, they care about people pirating, but in a way all this people is learning how to use their software, and once they get into a company or become fully professional, they are going to purchase licenses so yeah..

I'd say that's why Autodesk did the Student license stuff. If students are going to get their hands on pirated copies of their software, they'd rather act nice and create a special license for them.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Man, my main problem right now is having the idea of what to do. I think I have enough knowledge to create one simple whole level (even if I need to check videos and stuff every 15 minutes...) but I really don't know what to do

 

[Blizzard]

Man, my main problem right now is having the idea of what to do. I think I have enough knowledge to create one simple whole level (even if I need to check videos and stuff every 15 minutes...) but I really don't know what to do

Do you want to make a UT deathmatch map? A simple scene? A game of some sort?

If you provide no stipulations, I'm just going to pick something and be like "RISK BREAKER, make thou a farmyard scene with a barn and a silo. There aren't too many UDK scenes with barns and silos!" So there you go, get modeling.