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[Phat Michael]

I hate John Jones so much. However, he has talent and keeps winning. He looks pretty Damn unbeatable.

I honestly believe the only way to beat him is someone that can just demolish him with leg kicks over and over. Easier said than done I guess.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

"I hope he's somewhere crying, and I'm sure he is."
Damn lol

Full heel.

Jones is by far the most dominate and best champion MMA has seen so far.

Not even close to true.

Anderson and Fedor both had crazier runs than him.

He's definitely on his way, though.

 

[Quake1028]

Full heel.



Not even close to true.

Anderson and Fedor both had crazier runs than him.

He's definitely on his way, though.

No. Neither of those guys beat this many top guys, and I am a huge Fedor fan.

 

[Phat Michael]

Fedor also didn't have the luxury of having a foot of reach on all his opponents. I miss the pride days. Every tournament was just such an awesome spectacle.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

No. Neither of those guys beat this many top guys, and I am a huge Fedor fan.

Anderson cleaned out his division until Weidman came along. Jon may have beaten more guys that were ranked 1-3 in his run, but he also didn't fight alternating between two weight classes.

Fedor didn't fight as many top guys because there weren't any, tough to hold that against him for being (arguably) #1 for over nine years.

 

[Phat Michael]

Anderson cleaned out his division until Weidman came along. Jon may have beaten more guys that were ranked 1-3 in his run, but he also didn't fight alternating between two weight classes.

Fedor didn't fight as many top guys because there weren't any, tough to hold that against him for being (arguably) #1 for over nine years.

Fedor was also humble and not a massive arrogant dickhead. Jones is very talented but he makes it very hard to like him.

 

[Quake1028]

Fedor was also humble and not a massive arrogant dickhead. Jones is very talented but he makes it very hard to like him.

Neither that or your reach complaint have anything to do with their merits as fighters.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

That was the most boring night of fights I can remember.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Jones isn't unbeatable, we've seen last night how someone can go in close range and do some damage at the very least. And his defense when getting out of the clinch was at best terrible and would have been at least more exposed if it wasn't for Cormier's short reach.

Jones Defense has always been his weakness and his legs having no calves doesn't mean at all that he can't tolerate pain nor that his bones will break on impact. People saying that should check some of the legs on Muay Thai Fighters, some of them have really small calves too.

Gustaffson saw it and it might have been one of the reasons why he tweeted he wasn't impressed by his performence. (all the while making a reference to GSP saying it just before winning the title against Hughes)

 

[RBH]

 

[Spiderjericho]

Anderson cleaned out his division until Weidman came along. Jon may have beaten more guys that were ranked 1-3 in his run, but he also didn't fight alternating between two weight classes.

Fedor didn't fight as many top guys because there weren't any, tough to hold that against him for being (arguably) #1 for over nine years.

All the top middle weights and heavyweights have come to him.

I don't even remember Anderson fighting any top LHWs besides declining Bonnars and Griffin.

There is no question that Jones has done some amazing things against some amazing opponents.

 

[Sean]

I hate John Jones so much. However, he has talent and keeps winning. He looks pretty Damn unbeatable.

I honestly believe the only way to beat him is someone that can just demolish him with leg kicks over and over. Easier said than done I guess.

Jones too good of a fighter to just stand there and let himself get kicked over and over.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think Bones' resume is by far what makes his run the best in MMA history. Remember before Jones came along everyone was talking about how loaded the LHW division was, how guys like Shogun and Machida were all time greats. If you would have told an MMA fan right as Jones was about to fight Shogun that one man would beat Shogun, Machida, Rashad, Rampage, Belfort, Gustaffson and Teixera all in succession and all in fairly convincing manner (outside of Gus really) nobody would probably believe. you.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Jones too good of a fighter to just stand there and let himself get kicked over and over.

Well for one that's a body kick from the back leg thrown as a simple attack that Jon Jones deifnitely saw coming from Cromier's wind up. Lead leg kicks can open up combinations while leg kicks in general can end them. That's not a good gif to demonstrate that point in particular.

I think Bones' resume is by far what makes his run the best in MMA history. Remember before Jones came along everyone was talking about how loaded the LHW division was, how guys like Shogun and Machida were all time greats. If you would have told an MMA fan right as Jones was about to fight Shogun that one man would beat Shogun, Machida, Rashad, Rampage, Belfort, Gustaffson and Teixera all in succession and all in fairly convincing manner (outside of Gus really) nobody would probably believe. you.

I mean at that point, is there really anyone that doesn't believe this to be true? People hate his personality, but only a blind fool wouldn't see the skills and and sheer volume and versatility of the weapons he brings everytime he goes in the cage. Guy is a monster.

 

[Spiderjericho]

Three more title defenses and Jones passes GSP and Silva on the most title defenses:

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/01/ufc-18...ears-anderson-silvas-georges-st-pierres-marks

 

[Rur0ni]

I think Bones' resume is by far what makes his run the best in MMA history. Remember before Jones came along everyone was talking about how loaded the LHW division was, how guys like Shogun and Machida were all time greats. If you would have told an MMA fan right as Jones was about to fight Shogun that one man would beat Shogun, Machida, Rashad, Rampage, Belfort, Gustaffson and Teixera all in succession and all in fairly convincing manner (outside of Gus really) nobody would probably believe. you.

As much as I don't like his personality, he certainly has the best resume in my opinion. There's just a small handful of guys left (Gus, Rumble, couple of strong randoms). Granted I think Gus beat him before, I don't really see that happening again, especially if Rumble destroys Gus anyway.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Neither that or your reach complaint have anything to do with their merits as fighters.

Well, let's look at their title runs, because I was legitimately interested in the argument that Jon is now the most dominant champ. Now I'm sure he isn't better than Anderson yet.

Jon's title run:

#Title - Destroys Shogun for the title. Youngest champ ever.
#1 - Beats Rampage, who was not the #1 contender. Was coming off a silly win over Machida and an ok win over Matt Hamill.
#2 - Beats Machida, who was coming off a loss to Shougn and Rampage and a win over Randy Couture. They didn't have any other options, so they gave him the shot.
#3 - Beats Rashad Evans. Evans was on a four fight win streak, arguably the #1 contender at the time.
#4 & #5 - Beats Vitor Belfort and Chael Sonnen, two unraked, blown up middleweights in a row because no one else was around.
#6 - Beats Gus, the most solid win of his career over the clear #1 contender, but also a very close split decision that could've gone either way.
#7 - Beats Glover, a good win but Glover was ranked I believe #4 or #5 at the time.
#8 - Beats DC, excellent win for him over the guy that is either #2 or #3 in the divison.

Spider:

#Title - DESTROYS Rich Franklin in his prime for the title. Even back in these days where PRIDE was still a thing, many considered Franklin the best MW, even better than Hendo.
*** - Squash match with Lutter (no belt on the line) where he won with two bad knees. Let's just pretend this fight never happened...
#1 - Destroys clear Nate Marquardt, a vet in his prime on a six fight win streak, three in the UFC (though not over the best competition). Nate was ranked around the top three in the division at the time.
#2 - Destroys Rich Franklin, ranked #2, in the rematch.
#3 - Destroys Dan Henderson, one of the greatest MWs of all time in his prime.
***Beats James Irvin at 205
#4 - Squash match against Cote, wins by freak injury.
#5 - Embarrasses Thales Leites, he was ranked in the top five at the time.
***Beats Forrest Griffin at 205.
#6 - Embarrasses Demian Maia, ranked top five at the time but had a spotty UFC record.
#7 - Beats Chael Sonnen after getting dominated for five rounds. Not the prettiest defense, but he did it.
#8 - Destroys Vitor Belfort.
#9 - Destroys Yushin Okami.
#10 - Redemption by destroying Sonnen in the rematch.
***Beats Bonnar at 205.

That's a shitload of fights in ~7 years where he was totally dominant in all but two.

You can make the argument, and it's a compelling one, but I don't put him above Silva yet. I think he needs to beat the winner of Gus/Alex and then win one more to be the man.

 

[Officerrob]

Anderson cleaned out his division until Weidman came along. Jon may have beaten more guys that were ranked 1-3 in his run, but he also didn't fight alternating between two weight classes.

Fedor didn't fight as many top guys because there weren't any, tough to hold that against him for being (arguably) #1 for over nine years.

Anderson cleaned out a very weak division

 

[Jest Chillin]

Well for one that's a body kick from the back leg thrown as a simple attack that Jon Jones deifnitely saw coming from Cromier's wind up. Lead leg kicks can open up combinations while leg kicks in general can end them. That's not a good gif to demonstrate that point in particular.

Jones won't be beat by a simple strategy like "kick his legs" simply because doing that is much harder than it seems.

Jones reach isn't exclusive to his arms. His legs are longer too and he actively uses that reach to keep people at a distance. Most fighters have trouble getting inside that reach effectively but to get in on his legs they'll have to get inside with punches to set up the leg kicks.

Lead leg kicks against Jones are hard to get to land for most opponents because their legs are shorter as well. Getting into their range means being in range for Jones punches and kicks as well.

Even if/when an opponent can do these things, they have to do this consistently over the course of the fight without Jones recognizing the strategy and adapting to it. So far there's nobody in LHW that I can think of that has the speed, footwork, and style (cutting angles and getting in and out) to do this and the only person with the height and reach to nullify Jones height and reach is Gus... but that just puts them roughly on even ground.

 

[industrian]

Anderson and Fedor both had crazier runs than him.

All three fighters' records were subject to creative matchmaking and are padded with aluminium.

If forced to choose, I'd give the "best run" award to Igor Vovchanchyn. His run had the benefit of being in the wild west days of the sport where no-one was established and the fact he usually fought like 1000 times in one night. But once PRIDE got rolling he was burnt out and declined like a motherfucker.

Anyways, Jones is one of those freak athletes that could have chosen any sport in high school and been a world champion at it. At this rate, I could only see a dude like Cain or Weidman beating him, and that's purely because both those guys are both exceptional athletes.

And back to speaking about runs, I'd give Weidman some time here. There's a very good chance that he beats Belfort and Rockhold this year. But even if Weidman defends the MW belt 10 times people will probably still be talking about how he never "truly" beat Anderson.

 

[Dysun]

After last night I think Jones would embarrass everyone in the HW division, and that includes Cain. I'm not interested in seeing him blast Gus in the rematch. Seems more and more likely he took that fight lightly

 

[Degen]

man... I really wanted Cormier to do it

Jones is just not looking beatable by anyone in his weight class right now

can't wait for the Gustafsson rematch

 

[Heel]

Would rank Jones over Anderson without hesitation. Wilhelm's breakdown only further accentuates that truth.

 

[Jest Chillin]

After last night I think Jones would embarrass everyone in the HW division, and that includes Cain. I'm not interested in seeing him blast Gus in the rematch. Seems more and more likely he took that fight lightly

While Cain and DC have similarities, Cain is a different monster in my eyes. His experience in being in wars with JDS would make him much better prepared for an "embrace the grind" war than DC was. I also think his ability to force a takedown is stronger than DC's.

 

[strikeselect]

Watched the fight again this morning and I gotta give it up to Cormier. 5'10 with a 72 inch reach and he at least gave Jones a better fight than others (*cough* Shogun, Rampage, Rashad *cough*) Machida, Gus, and DC are the only ones who have won a round against Jones. With Gus being the closest to beat him overall.

Based on resume, Jones is the GOAT in MMA. No doubt about it. Anderson and Fedor's records are filled with cans.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Anderson cleaned out a very weak division

The weakest of them all at the time too, and his competition wern't as dangerous nor had the skill set of people like Machida, Shogun, Gustaffson, Evans or Cormier. Dan Henderson was probably his best win and even then, he was coming off a lost from Rampage to unify the Pride and UFC belts.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Jones won't be beat by a simple strategy like "kick his legs" simply because doing that is much harder than it seems.

Jones reach isn't exclusive to his arms. His legs are longer too and he actively uses that reach to keep people at a distance. Most fighters have trouble getting inside that reach effectively but to get in on his legs they'll have to get inside with punches to set up the leg kicks.

Lead leg kicks against Jones are hard to get to land for most opponents because their legs are shorter as well. Getting into their range means being in range for Jones punches and kicks as well.

Even if/when an opponent can do these things, they have to do this consistently over the course of the fight without Jones recognizing the strategy and adapting to it. So far there's nobody in LHW that I can think of that has the speed, footwork, and style (cutting angles and getting in and out) to do this and the only person with the height and reach to nullify Jones height and reach is Gus... but that just puts them roughly on even ground.

No need to explain to me, explain it to that other dude giving the gif as his sole explanation. I'm knowledgable enough to have made my own "reports of the facts". (constatation?)

I am not one of them that believes that solely relying on one weapon is the way to beat Jones. Nor am I one to think that because he has small calves that it means it's a weakness that can be exposed from leg kicks.

 

[Jest Chillin]

No need to explain to me, explain it to that other dude giving the gif as his sole explanation. I'm knowledgable enough to have made my own reports of the facts.

The gif is just a gif. It's not hard to recognize why "just kick his legs" isn't as easy as it seems. The poster choosing not to go into details doesn't negate his point.

 

[Can Crusher]

People acting like Bones sent Cormier home on a stretcher. Jones said he would take Cain fight in a heartbeat, so I want to see that.

 

[Chamber]

You still there pussy?

DC should hang it up. Legit disgusted with that moral victory takedown in the 5th.

Machida, Gus, and DC are the only ones who have won a round against Jones. With Gus being the closest to beat him overall.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The Punch heard round the world.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

The gif is just a gif. It's not hard to recognize why "just kick his legs" isn't as easy as it seems. The poster choosing not to go into details doesn't negate his point.

I mean, he's replying to a post, no? Situational awareness is the same as actually reading the posts that it follows, meaning that if the precedent poster was talking about leg kicks and that the poster replying is showing a gif of Jones taking down someone who throws a body kick, then yes, describing what leg kicks functions are can negate a point.

Lead leg kicks can open up combinations or open up some heavy shots to be thrown if one goes and try to grab for his leg or check it, hence focusing on it. Leg kicks when being thrown as a end to finish a combination are not as easily graps as a body kick that is being thrown as a single attack.

What your post shows is a simple theory on "what if" everything goes according to plan the same as it's been done in the past. What I'm refering to is what can lead to it regardless of this, it's not about Jon Jones, but about the weapon's efficacity. Talking in general.

English is not my first language and I figure it's obvious now. lol

 

[Plywood]

People acting like Bones sent Cormier home on a stretcher. Jones said he would take Cain fight in a heartbeat, so I want to see that.

I'm definitely interested in a potential "superfight" out of them so long as Cain stops getting injured and beats a couple more guys.

 

[industrian]

The only people to win rounds against Jones are Gus, DC and Sal D'Amato.

 

[Instro]

It's kind of amusing that with all those big name fights, the two that were closest to actually getting a win on Bones were the middleweights.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

The only people to win rounds against Jones are Gus, DC and Sal D'Amato.

lmao, had to google that last one. I'm guessing he's the one judge who gave that round to Lyoto? haha

 

[Zeliard]

While Cain and DC have similarities, Cain is a different monster in my eyes. His experience in being in wars with JDS would make him much better prepared for an "embrace the grind" war than DC was. I also think his ability to force a takedown is stronger than DC's.

More critically is that Cain has a far bigger gas tank than what we've seen from DC. Cain wouldn't wilt in those later championship rounds.

Still Jones is clearly a major threat to anyone, Cain included, especially if he can mitigate Cain's wrestling and clinch work on the fence the way he did with Cormier. It wouldn't be a foregone conclusion or anything but he'd pose serious problems to pretty much anyone at HW, and we'll probably see him there in 2016 if he sweeps 2015's LHWs again.

 

[Alchemy]

It's kind of amusing that with all those big name fights, the two that were closest to actually getting a win on Bones were the middleweights.

To be fair, Chael's psychic toe breaking powers work at any weight division.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

It's kind of amusing that with all those big name fights, the two that were closest to actually getting a win on Bones were the middleweights.

Gustafsson was never a middleweight, nor did Lyoto came close to winning. And a win off of that big toe being cut off against Chael would have been pretty much the same as that loss he got from Matt Hamill. "Bullshit." lol

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

More critically is that Cain has a far bigger gas tank than what we've seen from DC. Cain wouldn't wilt in those later championship rounds.

Still Jones is clearly a major threat to anyone, Cain included, especially if he can mitigate Cain's wrestling and clinch work on the fence the way he did with Cormier. It wouldn't be a foregone conclusion or anything but he'd pose serious problems to pretty much anyone at HW, and we'll probably see him there in 2016 if he sweeps 2015's LHWs again.

How can you possibly know that, tho? Is there anyone in the heavyweight division that Cain has faced that landed as many body shots and have been able to supress his wrestling? There's numerous factors that could dwindle your stamina mid-fight.

 

[rkn]

More critically is that Cain has a far bigger gas tank than what we've seen from DC. Cain wouldn't wilt in those later championship rounds.

Still Jones is clearly a major threat to anyone, Cain included, especially if he can mitigate Cain's wrestling and clinch work on the fence the way he did with Cormier. It wouldn't be a foregone conclusion or anything but he'd pose serious problems to pretty much anyone at HW, and we'll probably see him there in 2016 if he sweeps 2015's LHWs again.

Also be closer to Bones prime if/when this fight takes place, 2 years Cain will be 34/35, bones will be 29/30, but Cain is a special fighter, just wish dude would be able to fight more.

 

[Instro]

Gustafsson was never a middleweight, not did Lyoto came close to winning. And a win off of that big toe being cut off would have been pretty much the same as that loss he got from Matt Hamill. lol Bullshit.

I'm talking about Vitor and Chael. It's a joke. My point was that he is that good. The closest we have seen to actual loses would be Vitor almost completing the armbar and Chael almost getting a technical victory due to the injury. Gus was nowhere close to winning, and no other LHW has managed shit against him.

 

[Can Crusher]

I actually think Cormier will build his confidence back pretty quickly. Accept the reality check, and watch the tape.

It's really not that bad, and I bet he can get another legit crack.

 

[Zeliard]

How can you possibly know that, tho? Is there anyone in the heavyweight division that Cain has faced that landed as many body shots and have been able to supress his wrestling? There's numerous factors that could dwindle your stamina mid-fight.

Sure, though we have never seen Cain even come close to slowing down after keeping up an extremely active, aggressive pace for 5 rounds, while Cormier in last night's fight started fading even in the 3rd. I don't think you beat Cain by trying to tire him out.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

I'm talking about Vitor and Chael. It's a joke. My point was that he is that good. The closest we have seen to actual loses would be Vitor almost completing the armbar and Chael almost getting a technical victory due to the injury. Gus was nowhere close to winning, and no other LHW has managed shit against him.

Oh I know you were kidding with Chael, tho I did forget about that armbar that was almost locked in from Vitor. Saying that Gus was nowhere close to winning is a hell of a reach, tho.

 

[Dying Of Thirst]

Imagine if Rumble beats Gus via flash ko lol.

 

[VASPER]

Watching the JJ DC fight last night I had the feeling that a Cain JJ fight would be great, Cain has a massive gas tank and i think could control JJ in the clinch and potentially nullify JJ reach advantage.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I mean, he's replying to a post, no? Situational awareness is the same as actually reading the posts that it follows, meaning that if the precedent poster was talking about leg kicks and that the poster replying is showing a gif of Jones taking down someone who throws a body kick, then yes, describing what leg kicks functions are can negate a point.

Lead leg kicks can open up combinations or open up some heavy shots to be thrown if one goes and try to grab for his leg or check it, hence focusing on it. Leg kicks when being thrown as a end to finish a combination are not as easily graps as a body kick that is being thrown as a single attack.

The gif simply an example that shows Jones is not the type of fighter to sit there and just absorb kicks (which many fighters who fall prey to leg kicks do). It's not an end all explanation of his point, just a visual example.

What your post shows is a simple theory on "what if" everything goes according to plan the same as it's been done in the past. What I'm refering to is what can lead to it regardless of this, it's not about Jon Jones, but about the weapon's efficacity. Talking in general.

I don't think the effectiveness of leg kicks is something that needs to be explained anymore than the effectiveness of body work or top control needs to be explained. Pretty much every technique and strategy can be effective. The question is whether or not they can be successfully executed. And where Jon Jones is concerned, executing successfully is the biggest hurdle his opponents face.

More critically is that Cain has a far bigger gas tank than what we've seen from DC. Cain wouldn't wilt in those later championship rounds.

Still Jones is clearly a major threat to anyone, Cain included, especially if he can mitigate Cain's wrestling and clinch work on the fence the way he did with Cormier. It wouldn't be a foregone conclusion or anything but he'd pose serious problems to pretty much anyone at HW, and we'll probably see him there in 2016 if he sweeps 2015's LHWs again.

I'm not so certain that Jones will be moving to HW in the next couple of years. He's more concerned with a legacy on paper rather than proving himself or improving fan opinion of himself. I think he'll be perfectly happy ruling the roost at LHW until he runs into a wall or struggles making weight. A jump to HW doesn't offer him anything more than what he currently has except a shorter career as the amount of damage HW's can inflict is significantly higher than what he faces from most opponents at 205.

 

[CentroXer]

Rumble is going to make the world forget who Gus is.

Isnt rumble that guy who cheated by taking roids?

 

[Hex]

Full heel.



Not even close to true.

Anderson and Fedor both had crazier runs than him.

He's definitely on his way, though.

Anderson and Fedore did it without the massive advantage also.
Not saying that there is no skill, but the reach IS 70% of why he can do as much as he can.