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[cordy]

Needless to say, this will be a learning experience for Capcom. SFVI will be far different once it's announced and they start rolling it out. If it's not, it'll heavily perform under their expectations like SFV did. Capcom's already learning as we can see with their numerous "we're sorry we're sorry" campaign since the launch and even with MvCI's interviews since it was announced.

I can see SFVI now.

- Arcade Mode (with different difficulty settings, different bosses, different unlockables based on this and different endings)
- Story Mode (Story Mode that's far longer than SFV's and probably will end up being longer than MvCI's Story Mode)
- Sakura and Sagat will be in the game day 1, same with Akuma but he'll be unlockable
- Unlockable costumes, stages and whatnot that come with the game and not half-assed.
- More reliance on things Casual fans would enjoy like throwbacks to older SF games
- Possible World Tour Mode
- Enhanced Training Mode
- Possible some sort of Missions/Dojo Mode to the side where you can get a different kind of training if you don't wanna go online
- PS/Xbox/PC

Whatever MvCI does will probably be the blueprint to SFVI. SFV right now, nah, they can't save that. SFVI though will be a different story.

Hell, maybe even SFA4. Either way, they're learning.

 

[_Legacy_]

Well, whatever happens, I hope XB1 users will get a version of this one or next.

 

[Maulik]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

 

[Hutchie]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

yeah but guilty gear and vf didnt sell brilliantly? but i guess getting this in and the modes would help to cover bases. But another problem i see is even if a game has all of that info people may just ignore it and want to fight because they want to have fun and arent interested in learning the game. Im sure companies can undertake research to see what every type of gamer hardcore and not hardcore want from their fighters. Although everyone says that SFV excluded casuals, some of their choices have obviously shut out the hardcore too.

 

[Chip N Chance]

Make it sprite based and ill buy it.

 

[vg260]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

That would be ideal, but I think people underestimate the work involved in making an interactive tutorial mode that covers everything everyone wants to know, and many people also don't have the patience for it anyway. I could totally see how a company making a fighting game would find it not worth the effort.

 

[oneida]

yeah but guilty gear and vf didnt sell brilliantly?

VF4EVO, which had a much-lauded tutorial and single player content, outsold SFV. Pretty sure VF5 on PS3 did too - in the very least it had a much stronger launch. (FWIW, it was a launch title.)

 

[GuileBootCamp]

VF4EVO, which had a much-lauded tutorial and single player content, outsold SFV. Pretty sure VF5 on PS3 did too - in the very least it had a much stronger launch. (FWIW, it was a launch title.)

I just bought a copy of VF4EVO thanks to this thread, and a friend of mine that's talked about how cool the Quest mode is, for years. Curious to see what they did with it.

 

[oneida]

I just bought a copy of VF4EVO thanks to this thread, and a friend of mine that's talked about how cool the Quest mode is, for years. Curious to see what they did with it.

I hope you like it buddy. I think what that game accomplished on $20 MSRP is pretty outstanding. Be sure to check out the on disc tournament replays, the "VF Anniversary" game tucked away in the settings menu, the character tutorials (with max dmg combos and move explanations!), and in quest mode don't forget to actually accept quests

Have fun. I'm a little jealous you're about to see it for the first time.

 

[Skilletor]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

Nah, none of that is necessary. Casuals aren't interested in learning how to play. Tutorials aren't going to help make games sell more.

How in depth is Smash's tutorial? MKX's? Injustice? Meanshile stuff like VF, Skullgirls, every ASW game includes pretty much what everybody is asking for and sells jack next to these games.

They need to make you feel cool while you play and have tons and tons of modes that allow you to do so without hopping online to get bodied by somebody who actually cares about learning how to play the game.

This is why lots of casuals like 3D fighters. Tekken has a movelist of over a hundred moves for every character, but you don't need to learn them because you and your friends can just press buttons and cool shit happens. Same with MK. That's one of the benefits of having strings of commands over something like SF and KoF. You don't ever do cool shit by accident in those games. You have to have some idea of what you're doing to do must stuff outside of supers and EX moves.

I don't know why so many people think casuals actually care about learning how to play the game. Most don't give a shit. That's why we have so many threads about making games easier.

 

[lucebuce12]

Casuals want flashy graphics, cool stages and some single player stuff where they can mash buttons against the AI and get some stuff like a cutscene at the end.

They don't care about robust online, they don't care about comprehensive tutorials, they don't care about balance or good gameplay.

SF5 only had the balance and good gameplay at it's launch.

 

[oneida]

Nah, none of that is necessary. Casuals aren't interested in learning how to play. Tutorials aren't going to help make games sell more.

How in depth is Smash's tutorial? MKX's? Injustice? Meanshile stuff like VF, Skullgirls, every ASW game includes pretty much what everybody is asking for and sells jack next to these games.

They need to make you feel cool while you play and have tons and tons of modes that allow you to do so without hopping online to get bodied by somebody who actually cares about learning how to play the game.

This is why lots of casuals like 3D fighters. Tekken has a movelist of over a hundred moves for every character, but you don't need to learn them because you and your friends can just press buttons and cool shit happens. Same with MK. That's one of the benefits of having strings of commands over something like SF and KoF. You don't ever do cool shit by accident in those games. You have to have some idea of what you're doing to do must stuff outside of supers and EX moves.

I don't know why so many people think casuals actually care about learning how to play the game. Most don't give a shit. That's why we have so many threads about making games easier.

I 100% agree with you. it's nice having good tutorials, but the general audience gives no shits about that stuff. just give them something to do and they're happy. Soul Calibur II weapon master says hi.

 

[SneakersSO]

Well, whatever happens, I hope XB1 users will get a version of this one or next.

I mean, any version of SFV won't be coming to X1. And I doubt we get SFVI this generation.

 

[Dubz]

MK is the only FG that sells anymore, and that makes me sad.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Make it sprite based and ill buy it.

Man I really miss sprite street fighters. I was watching some gameplay from Street fighter alpha 2 and the characters and look so much better than their 3d equivalent. The characters look serious instead of goofy in SF 4 and 5.

As far as attracting casuals, I think a fighting game is going to need lots of single player content. Then once you have people hooked, a good tutorial and training modes will help people transition from casual to regular players.

A good matchmaking system is absolutely necessary to keep regular players engaged online. I stopped playing street fighter v when it had it matchmaking issues, but I came back when it was fixed. I wonder how many people just gave up on sfv in that same time frame.

 

[Hutchie]

VF4EVO, which had a much-lauded tutorial and single player content, outsold SFV. Pretty sure VF5 on PS3 did too - in the very least it had a much stronger launch. (FWIW, it was a launch title.)

i think a fairer comparison would be sfv to vf5fs (although different consoles are closer in release dates). Did vf4evo outsell tekken 5 which had little in the way of guidance for new players?

 

[oneida]

i think a fairer comparison would be sfv to vf5fs (although different consoles are closer in release dates). Did vf4evo outsell tekken 5 which had little in the way of guidance for new players?

We don't have sales numbers for VF5FS, we know they exceeded expectations but don't know what those expectations were. Not sure if that's a more fair comparison as FS was a digital only release which had little marketing and came 7 years into last gen...

Tekken 5 comfortably outsold VF4EVO. However, VF4 vanilla outsold Tekken 5 by a wide margin.

/edit/ I need to correct a previous statement - VF4EVO did not outsell Street Fighter V.
/edit2/ or maybe it did in Japan? need Japanese sales figures for SFV.

 

[Balb]

Following that same take, SF2 was like the Overwatch of its day.

Now it has to compete with, you know, Overwatch. And all the other team-based games. The plain idea that you can suck and get your bearings in a team game is way more appealing to casuals than losing their first 50 one on one matches of SF.

SFV isnt actually much more complex than SF2 (it's easier in some ways), and it certainly has more content than home versions of that game did.

It's kind of hollow to point to SF2 as f that has much relevance today. SFV is as accessible and smooth playing as SF has ever been.

"Casuals" still seem to flock to Mortal Kombat just fine. It's definitely a Capcom problem.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Still waiting for the season pass to be 50% off like it was on psn. Dunno why PC is getting forced into slower price drops when the game is cross play.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I 100% agree with you. it's nice having good tutorials, but the general audience gives no shits about that stuff. just give them something to do and they're happy. Soul Calibur II weapon master says hi.

Pretty much. SFV's main problem was that there was nothing for people like that to do at launch. Besides frustrating modes like Multiplayer and Survival.

You can only launch once. The mystery and anticipation is what sells games, not features. Once people have played your game and decide they're done playing it's hard to bring most of them back. That's why the game getting storymode months later didn't do anything for the game.

 

[Basketball]

THINK LIKE A CASUAL

Mortal Kombat has a hook

the Fatalities (do the fatal bro), Crazy xrays

What does SF have ?

Casual love hooks. What is Conan going to show off to the viewers if SFV was played? Cammy's buttcheeks ?

another thing
SFV should have been free to play, If Killer Instinct was 60 bucks no one would have bought that shit.

Just look at Let it die

 

[mbpm1]

Just look at Let it die

what about it?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

/edit/ I need to correct a previous statement - VF4EVO did not outsell Street Fighter V.
/edit2/ or maybe it did in Japan? need Japanese sales figures for SFV.

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution sold 118k for the PS2, while Street Fighter V has sold 97k, as of the last update, I believe. SFV will probably outsell it in a few months.

 

[Basketball]

what about it?

No one would buy it for 60 bucks
well at least not many

 

[myco666]

Yeah I really don't think casuals care about tutorials. Some might eventually but that really isn't the thing that gets bunch of people want your product. Only thing FGs can really have to appeal casuals is good replayable SP content which SFV didn't have launch and I would argue doesn't have even now.

No one would buy it for 60 bucks
well at least not many

I would rather buy it for 60. Atleast then it might have been released in my country (and pretty much every other country too).

 

[kunonabi]

VF4EVO, which had a much-lauded tutorial and single player content, outsold SFV. Pretty sure VF5 on PS3 did too - in the very least it had a much stronger launch. (FWIW, it was a launch title.)

That warms my heart. I need that after the awful spider-man trailer.

 

[mbpm1]

That warms my heart. I need that after the awful spider-man trailer.

hey, it wasn't that bad

 

[Kashiwaba]

MK is the only FG that sells anymore, and that makes me sad.

Mahvel will destroy it sales wise.

 

[Sayad]

Mahvel will destroy it sales wise.

lol

 

[Producer]

Mahvel will destroy it sales wise.

doubt it..i say that as someone who loves marvel

 

[Pygrus]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

Skullgirls does some of this in their tutorial. Best tutorial to ever grace a fighting game.

 

[Kashiwaba]

doubt it..i say that as someone who loves marvel

If Capcom times the release date right and somehow release when one of Marvel movies is on i can see this game outselling MK easily.

 

[DedValve]

I would love a world tour mode and offline tournaments.

 

[mnz]

If Capcom times the release date right and somehow release when one of Marvel movies i can see this game outselling MK easily.

Maybe if they release it for free on phones...

 

[oneida]

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution sold 118k for the PS2, while Street Fighter V has sold 97k, as of the last update, I believe. SFV will probably outsell it in a few months.

thanks for data!

 

[DR2K]

If Capcom times the release date right and somehow release when one of Marvel movies is on i can see this game outselling MK easily.

Yep. Cashing in on the MCU movies will do that and more.

 

[CadetMahoney]

How are you even supposed to make a 1 v 1 skill based game appeal to casuals?

Dumb it down so much with comeback mechanics to reward fragile egos who want a win button that it becomes a laughing stock compared to the classic fighting games.

Thing about comeback mechanics / touch of deaths is that it allows worser players to beat the better players more often and makes it more random.

 

[TaterTots]

Hooking casuals is important. More sales can lead to better support and future sequels. I can't imagine Capcom green lighting SFVI for a long time. Unless, MvCI does extremely well.

 

[Hutchie]

Yep. Cashing in on the MCU movies will do that and more.

Release it when avengers 3 is out then watch the big buck roll in.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Alot of people keep asking how you can make a game appeal to casuals ao here goes:

Include an actual tutorial that teaches people how to play the game. Showing just the basic inputs of how to do special moves does not a tutorial make. You need to include something akin to what virtua fighter and guilty gear have. Include actual discussions on spacing, matchup guides, normals, throw teching, oki etc etc. By excluding this, the fighting game genre will be stuck where it is with no room for growth.

"What would make a game more popular among people who don't want to invest that much time and effort?"

"Let's include a textbook!"

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Yeah casuals just want offline content, unlockables and fun modes to play locally when their friends come over.

However they should also include a decent tutorial mode for those that get it for the above stuff and want to try the online. They also need a way for new comers to play online and not get utterly detroyed. Maybe a 3v3 mode where you control 1 person and tag in. Team games make it easier to be carried as well as blame someone else for your loss (look at mobas lol). This is a nice way of keeping the rage intact.

 

[Gren]

Yeah casuals just want offline content, unlockables and fun modes to play locally when their friends come over.

However they should also include a decent tutorial mode for those that get it for the above stuff and want to try the online. They also need a way for new comers to play online and not get utterly detroyed. Maybe a 3v3 mode where you control 1 person and tag in. Team games make it easier to be carried as well as blame someone else for your loss (look at mobas lol). This is a nice way of keeping the rage intact.

Don't think that'd be a good idea if you're trying to cater to people's insecurities. Sure a partner may carry your team to victory, but before that *everyone* will get to see you get bopped front & center. At least in most other games your team mates can only see how bad you really are when you're in their peripheral vision, or they themselves have died & are waiting to respawn.

 

[PHOTOSHOP]

agreed this doesnt game does cater to casuals at all.

Look at the challenges.

This is how it looks as default. They dont even show the commands and motions for these moves. You have to change it manually in options to display them. Not everyone knows what a DEJIN RENKI is..

 

[Skilletor]

agreed this doesnt game does cater to casuals at all.

Look at the challenges.

This is how it looks as default. They dont even show the commands and motions for these moves. You have to change it manually in options to display them. Not everyone knows what a DEJIN RENKI is..

It's like this in every modern fighter that I can think of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk_uBc7wGeY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_aeBRlia10 <-- GG shows both, probably the same for BB (quick search for BB trials only show japanese text). That's much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMlw0MqFOUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBfm8VTb44 <-- KoF shows commands, but it's difficult to know what is a link and what is a cancel sometimes

 

[mnz]

Yeah that's actually really stupid. I've been playing Karin for a year and I wouldn't know what Kanzuki-Ryu Hadorokushiki Hasha no Kata is. But they ask that of you.

 

[pizzacat]

agreed this doesnt game does cater to casuals at all.

Look at the challenges.

This is how it looks as default. They dont even show the commands and motions for these moves. You have to change it manually in options to display them. Not everyone knows what a DEJIN RENKI is..

That's vtrigger activation don't you know!

 

[petran79]

agreed this doesnt game does cater to casuals at all.

Look at the challenges.

This is how it looks as default. They dont even show the commands and motions for these moves. You have to change it manually in options to display them. Not everyone knows what a DEJIN RENKI is..

Issue here is not if they display it correctly but rather what is the point for a casual to do all those trials without any frame data and situation explanation.

Even if they are locked in a cell, practice all day and reach perfection, they'll still wont be able to grasp the game and beat better players.

Trials in any fighting game are for intermediate players and above. With the first failure, casuals will start complaining.

 

[mnz]

Why would a casual need frame data to do a combo?

 

[RedZaraki]

I would like them to have incorporated a tutorial into the story itself, and to make the story mode more ambitious, long, and interesting.

Make the game more robust, full, and vibrant. These aren't just arcade games anymore. I want a full experience.

The Street Fighter lore is apparently deep. Manga and movies etc. Why do the games always feel so unrelated to all that?

So I very much agree. MORE tutorials, better tutorials and a better single-player experience and story mode.

The age of a 10-fight arcade mode with different difficulty options being the only single player stuff is dead and rightfully so.

 

[.la1n]

I wouldn't put myself into the casual crowd by any stretch of the imagination but even I can't fathom why there is no standard arcade mode. It's something I actually enjoy playing from time to time and I have no way of doing that with SF V. The best I can do is repeat vs CPU matches over and over which becomes an act in frustration every time I want to fight a new opponent / change characters.