Then they just have to figure out how to get the nintendo characters.
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Ultra David feels Street Fighter 5 needs an entire re-release
- Thread starter PadWarrior
- Start date
Then they just have to figure out how to get the nintendo characters.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Rising Thunder did just that, in that all specials were one-button moves with a cool-down.
However, it also had dash-cancels, so there was still some execution barrier.
Sadly, it was cancelled when the company was bought by Riot.
The story mode is still one round matches and is also completely awful, aside from cameos.
What I mean is: some people see challenge as a reason to play games. Some see it as a detriment.
As with Dark Souls I think some people get their enjoyment mastering a system and others just want to do cool stuff. That's notvreallyvan issue by itself. Though in single player games this can be reconciled (Bayonetta, DMC, etc) but with multiplayer centric games it's far harder to do.
I mean, cool looking stuff becomes every day stuff if you see it all the time. That's why nobody thinks throwing fireballs is cool but doing shit like this is cool because you see it far less often.
I think you focused on the wrong thing about my post. I agree, old or new characters, the effect would be minimal.
The thing is Capcom needs to INVEST in this game's future. Aside from adding a whole slew of features and upgrades, just relaunching the game wouldn't be cheap (and they had a really stupid marketing campaign at launch to be honest, focused entirely on the FGC and esports).
I don't think they're going to spend a dime beyond new characters.
I don't even think story modes in fighting games make sense unless you do it like Xrd where it's one giant visual novel. At least then you don't have to cram stupid filler fights with dumb excuses.
I really do think they should wrap up season 2 with the new chars and possible arcade mode and then move on to SF6 (and give it some time, at least 3-4 years).
TIL this thread never understood SF2
SF2 had stricter inputs. It wasn't thought up yet to lax inputs like SF5 or 4 because there weren't complaints about it being hard. Hell, most people thought they happened by random. There was an input window, negative edge and canceling normal move into specials to help in case you hit the attack before the direction finish.
The frame skip caused inputs to drop.
2 in 1s like crMK xx Hadoken were originally bugs of the input leniency they used.
No mirror matches lol
Losing player had a damage boost for the next round.
Random damage and stun values.
As people played more, they ended up competing with others and even traveling to show their skill (think challenging schools in martial arts flicks). You didn't have online where everyone of all skills could play each other, you just had to play whoever was at the pizzeria or laundromat or home or the cheap cpu. It was easy to never know there were better players, it was easier to never know the most effective way to play since no youtube.
The terminology came from the hardcore, not developer. Links existed, cancels existed, chains existed, bnbs, karas, tick throws, meaties, negetive edge, throw option selects, etc. You were doing these before they were pointed out and named.
Fighting games are more complicated now because we're familiar with them now and devs know some of those SF2 things would be unfun.
SF2 had stricter inputs. It wasn't thought up yet to lax inputs like SF5 or 4 because there weren't complaints about it being hard. Hell, most people thought they happened by random. There was an input window, negative edge and canceling normal move into specials to help in case you hit the attack before the direction finish.
The frame skip caused inputs to drop.
2 in 1s like crMK xx Hadoken were originally bugs of the input leniency they used.
No mirror matches lol
Losing player had a damage boost for the next round.
Random damage and stun values.
As people played more, they ended up competing with others and even traveling to show their skill (think challenging schools in martial arts flicks). You didn't have online where everyone of all skills could play each other, you just had to play whoever was at the pizzeria or laundromat or home or the cheap cpu. It was easy to never know there were better players, it was easier to never know the most effective way to play since no youtube.
The terminology came from the hardcore, not developer. Links existed, cancels existed, chains existed, bnbs, karas, tick throws, meaties, negetive edge, throw option selects, etc. You were doing these before they were pointed out and named.
Fighting games are more complicated now because we're familiar with them now and devs know some of those SF2 things would be unfun.
Story mode is garbage.
Well, you know, I would like the game to be a success and not just abandoned (I also would like the game I paid full price for to not feel like an early access title
).
Z..
Member
It's not the same thing at all. RT was oversimplified in the sense that it had a very strict limited number of actions and as such each one only applied to a very specific set of contexts. It provided a huge amount of variables, but they were all limited to a very specific playset. It's like a halfway point in complexity between Divekick and games like Jump Ultimate Stars.
This, however, would only be simplified in execution while retaining the full arsenal and mechanical depth provided by a fully fleshed competitive 2D fighter like SF. You merely remove the issue of execution from the table for those who so desire. And, again, the new control method would have appropriate concessions to balance it out. Timing wise, it should ideally equate to someone operating at a high level of execution so as to remove that obstacle completely.
The game boils down to instincts, perception and the ability to adjust on the spot. Just because we spent countless amounts of hours mastering actions that don't equate to real skill in any intrinsic way (unlike, say, playing an instrument) we somehow develop the delusion that we are skilled at this electronic hobby of ours, but the real meat and potatoes that makes or breaks the greatest players among us is completely down to the factors mentioned. Execution is merely an arbitrary barrier implemented by the game designers to fit the concessions of the time, it doesn't translate to anything real.
Stone Ocean
Member
Because the game's balance is based on certain inputs being relatively difficult to perform. If I can anti air someone without risking getting hit because I'm not inputting a forward motion that breaks my guard then suddenly that anti air needs to be a lot weaker. It's the same issue SF43D had where you could just play Guile and set Flash Kick to a button so you were basically unbeatable because you had all of his frame data advantages from being a charge character without any of the drawbacks that allowed him to be have such strong moves, as well as stuff like autoguard and autotech gems in SFxT that people hated.
Introduce easy mode inputs all you want, just give me an option to completely weed people that use it from my online matches otherwise I won't even bother playing the game.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Indeed - it's barely better than SC5's story mode, which is embarrassing. It's also full of cloth glitches and should not have been released in the state it was in.
I 100% agree the game needs a re-launch.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's reassuring to hear UltraDavid call it out, I actually hope for a complete overhaul of everything other than the game control and mechanics. SFV is so rough and unappealing, I'm impressed that Capcom has been able to maintain the interest that it has. It has all sorts of significant problems, from the UI and the loading times to strange, off-putting graphics and designs like the Happy Halloween stage and slapstick humor, and plenty of other issues in between.
Well, you know, I would like the game to be a success and not just abandoned (I also would like the game I paid full price for to not feel like an early access title
That's very unlikely at this point, though. Just cram all the features you can during this season and then learn from the mistakes.
I agree wholeheartedly with Z.. and Sir_Stoo. I put zero value on high execution skills. When you need to spend dozens of hours on training mode (like I have) just to be able to move around the bronze~utlrabronze level, your game has failed for mainstream gamers. There's a seriously elitist attitude going around this thread.
And do you know why exactly is this such a big deal with SFV? Precisely because the only worthwhile mode for a really long time was online play. I'd say it's still the only worthwhile mode in the game. Everything else is trash. Survival? Trash. Character stories? Trash. Story mode? Trash. None of those modes are even remotely fun. If I want to play SFV, but I don't want to play online, I literally have no options that are of any worth.
And do you know why exactly is this such a big deal with SFV? Precisely because the only worthwhile mode for a really long time was online play. I'd say it's still the only worthwhile mode in the game. Everything else is trash. Survival? Trash. Character stories? Trash. Story mode? Trash. None of those modes are even remotely fun. If I want to play SFV, but I don't want to play online, I literally have no options that are of any worth.
sixteen-bit
Member
I always thought UltraDavid was 1 word
old manatee
Banned
They could just fix the game they already sold people. I'm definitely not buying a rerelease after this fiasco.
Stone Ocean
Member
I mean, what exactly do you want out of the game? Free wins? Being able to beat people who are better at it than you?
It's not really a matter of elitism.
Omnistalgic
Member
It's my GOTY...love the gameplay (only 2nd to TLG)
A relaunch and some TLC to improve casual appeal (modes, UI, more characters, better tutorials) certainly wouldn't hurt. I'm all for it.
#bringcasualsback
A relaunch and some TLC to improve casual appeal (modes, UI, more characters, better tutorials) certainly wouldn't hurt. I'm all for it.
#bringcasualsback
Persona 4 Arena also has autocombos, and all special moves are quarter circles (no DP, no 360, etc.). Blazblue has an easy mode with special moves mapped on buttons since the first one. Why didn't they took over these "complex" fighters? Because execution is a small problem, and there are much bigger problems:
- Art direction: Japanese games went full anime, and this is un-sellable in the west. Characters and style are very important in attracting new blood, and most FG can't do that.
- Pricing: FG are way too expensive, without anything to justify it for the average buyer. Full price for an Assassin's Creed game is fine: they look awesome, so it makes sense. Full price for a SF game? lol nope. If you want the casual crowd, you need big graphics and big production values. If you want to attract the competitive crowd, you need great mechanics (no problem here, pretty much every FG out there is excellent) and chep pricing. You need to get as many people as possible on board, because only a few of them will stick with it.
- Persistent progression: people want the illusion of progress. Getting good is not guaranteed, so it's not enough. You need loot boxes and unlockables to keep people hooked. Look at what Valve does and copy it. Regardless of your opinion on these tactics, they work.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
The clipping in this game is the worst I've ever seen, at least that I can remember. Even in the character select screen where it's all over the place and impossible to ignore, there was nothing done at all to alleviate even the most obvious ones like Ken's hair going through his shoulder.
Yes, that's exactly what I said, thanks for your input.
Their original releases like Alpha1 and especially SF3:NG are virtual alpha/beta releases to be honest. With SF3 it actually took them two games to get something good. Like the feel and pace of 3rd Strike is completely different from the previous two SF3 games. Even the jumping arcs are different.
With SFV though almost everyone agrees that the combat system is excellent (even if some of us complain about the execution barrier
), it's just everything else that is missing.I think I find SFV's story mode to be one of the saddest things I've seen in a Street Fighter game. Clearly a lot of effort has been put into it, it has several hours of fully animated and voiced cut-scenes, and they're all terrible. It's all garbage. The writing is terrible bordering on nonsensical, it doesn't even serve as decent fan service, and worst of all the cut-scenes are just really boring and presented in the dullest manner. And then you have the actual gameplay, composed of one-round matches, for reasons. You're not given enough time to get used to any characters, as you usually play for one round and then change to another. You have two difficulty settings: braindead easy and max hardcore. I could probably breeze through story mode if I only played as my main on hard, but as it is I need to be familiar with the entire roster to progress, and progress through story mode isn't done in any way that approaches entertainment for me.
It's an incredible waste of money. Made by dumbasses, approved by even dumber asses.
I think the most relevant point is that he was one of the commentators for the Capcom Cup (for the earlier round on-stream matches only). When one of the commentators at your event, albeit in a side interview, is harshly criticizing the game, that is telling.
Personally, I tend to disagree with a lot of his opinions, but I think he's right on this.
yurinka
Member
By adding to the single player content 8 levels of difficulty and number of rounds selector, adding more single player content like the Arcade Mode, more characters and stages and a good matchmaking where you are matched with people of your same level.
Z..
Member
Dumb comparison. Equatting a macro to a normal directional input is nonsensical.
And as previously stated, appropriate concessions would be applied to keep things balanced. Ever so slight delays or windups where necessary, corresponding periods of susceptibility and so forth.
I feel deep down this anxiety towards streamlined inputs just comes from a false sense of superiority derived from having mastered some arbitrary physical barrier. Like we have to justify all the time we wasted to ourselves or something. I can execute quite effortlessly but if I could take back the time I certainly would, there's no inherent meaning to this skill, it is completely pointless in any real sense. I love the games, but if I could have had them without all this stuff I happilly would've. Only prosperous buffoons like us first worlders could ever value arbitrary time consuming barriers that don't actually equate to any real skill. The real skill people like Infiltration and Momochi possess lies in their instincts and perspicaciousness during confrontation, not their ability to trigger a digital response by inputting a random physical combination which was only implemented out of necessity in the first place...
It has an awful story mode that doesn't serve any purpose that anyone wants it to, and it wasn't there for ages after launch. Believe me, I was quite hyped for story, had a friend who works at a gamestop check the game back out and walked away very bummed again. Even something significantly less expensive to produce like the Project Justice/Rival schools style of story would've been INFINITELY better, the point of story mode isn't the story, it's just a framework for a bunch of vs ai matches. Instead Capcom doubled down on trying to tell a (bad) story that nobody cares about with LESS fighting and no real difficulty choices.
The purpose of these single player modes is to provide direction and focus for players that aren't going online. The game itself should not suffer in these modes, the core fighting needs to be totally normal still (or close to it, maybe some stupid RPG style setup like Alpha 3's world tour buffs, etc).
Ask tekken and MK, they do it.
This thread and others make me fear for the future of gaming.... holy shit. You guys may be the very reason games have simplified to the very same level yall often complain about.... I never want to hear people whine about handholding again.
Look I hate hard games, I have a bad temper and never could stand frustration....but I also understand that some things just aren't for me. It's rather clear that the fighting genre just isn't for some of y'all. Now also look sfv could use some more single player content , better tutorials, and just better qol stuff... but changing the way the series has played for 25 years? Naw.
It's funny that the same people who feel alienated by Capcoms pro only mentality and call people elitists for now agreeing are often in favor of flipping the script and pushing away the very same pros that have "ruined" the series.... weird double standard
Look I hate hard games, I have a bad temper and never could stand frustration....but I also understand that some things just aren't for me. It's rather clear that the fighting genre just isn't for some of y'all. Now also look sfv could use some more single player content , better tutorials, and just better qol stuff... but changing the way the series has played for 25 years? Naw.
It's funny that the same people who feel alienated by Capcoms pro only mentality and call people elitists for now agreeing are often in favor of flipping the script and pushing away the very same pros that have "ruined" the series.... weird double standard
ColonialHawk
Member
I thought story mode was hillarious, more sf the movie than the anime. However i prefer ggxrd style story mode rather than crapy one round bouts. Problem is its hard to craft a compelling story when the game didnt have one originally.
Fighting game extra content is hard to get right outside of the usual suspects but game companies attempting to bring in casuals should be looking to rectify the same.
Fighting game extra content is hard to get right outside of the usual suspects but game companies attempting to bring in casuals should be looking to rectify the same.
NO!
Why is that? Why wont people give it a second chance if it corrected everything that was wrong with it?
Except that every other fighting game in the world doesn't have a problem doing this. Nobody would care if some random new fighting series came out and didn't support casual players, but street fighter is THE fighting game series. Everyone has touched it and understands it that plays videogames. It has always been a friend of casuals. There weren't even pro scenes when this series hit it big. So get off the high horse, the fighting game genre wouldn't EXIST without 'some of us'
If there is any series that SHOULD be at the forefront of people's consciousness as casual fans of fighting games, it should be street fighter. Instead it's Mortal Kombat. That's a little sad (and I say that as a longtime Mortal Kombat fan too, from way back in the local arcades, just like SF2).
It's cheaper than competitors.
SF6 going to play like a MOBA with 1 button specials that have a cooldown of they listen to this thread lol
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
We need "PRESS A FOR HADOKEN" already!!1!1
Jokes aside, I remember King of Fighters having a one button move mode, and it felt very broken. I don't think hitting moves is the issue. If anything that's missing is Capcom not having an actual tutorial that teaches you all the moves and combos for a certain character, and it's timing.
When Blazblue was first released, it came with an entire Blu-ray that showed you all the moves and tips for each character. I didn't watch the whole thing but it's a great feature that more fighters need.
Street Fighter V is quite accessible if you know how to counter each fighter with your fighter. Usually the issue is with not knowing what the fuck to do when the opponent is being technical.
The major problem is that Street Fighter V is very bare basic. If they're making it just for esports then they should have a reality check and expect that the numbers will be low forever, knowing how little folks play fighters compared to other esports titles. There's definitely more viewers than players for SFV compared to other titkes with esports push.
Stone Ocean
Member
I won't deny that I'm sure that there are people that feel that they have to validate the time they put in the game. Believe me, I really don't care about execution per se - I veehemently defended SFV's easier links - specially since these days I no longer have the time nor the drive to put in the effort I used to.
All I want is for the game to be competitive. If you can find a way to make easy inputs feel good to use without giving any advantages to the player so actually good players could abuse it then go for it.
This is true, though I think this applies to almost every fighting game story mode so far.
As far as single player content goes, people are claiming the World Tour mode in SFA3's console versions is awesome but outside of that the current version of SF5 is on par with every other Street Fighter so far. Which is to say they've always been kind of unfun.
TheTylerRob
Member
The entitlement is incredible. Working for your success makes you an elitist apparently. The only reason average joe isn't winning evo is because he can't do combos. This thread is really delivering some shit lmao.
Then why would you want it to become easier than it ever has been?
Z..
Member
There is no execution, that's the whole point. It's an unnecessary arbitrary barrier with no intrinsic value. I like it too, but it has no actual value, it is hard for the sake of being hard without actually equating to a real skill. It's fictitious in nature and brings nothing to the game.
Don't you understand how that might drive newcomers away? Oo it's clutter, by definition.
Why the italics, btw?
I don't? What does it take for some SF5 apologists to understand that casual players don't want the game to be 'easier'? Or if someone wants an 'easy' mode, which has been offered in COUNTLESS street fighter games before, why do you give a fuck? Either way, I never said I want that, I wouldn't use it so I couldn't care less, I find joy in doing things like fireballs and dragon punches. I don't find joy in doing them online against people I have no investment with as people, because I'm not interested in laddering in Street Fighter. I will play vs with my friends in real life.
Uhm, this thread is full of exactly that demand. And that was what that poster was refering to.
make it:
not street fighter
or
a puzzle fighter
or
F2P
+ i thought the casuals are there already?
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
That's great to hear. It's a great product that deserves more love.
FrontalMonk
Banned
This is all EXACTLY true. I bought SFV when it first came out, I played the beta, and the actual moment to moment gameplay was fantastic, I had a lot of fun with it, but literally the only thing to do with it was play online, which I rarely do. I'm either a single player or a couch co-op guy the vast majority of the time. As a result, aside from when I'd play with a couple of my friends I just didn't play SFV. I love playing fighting games in all their varied modes. Alpha 3's world tour mode was like the best mode for me. I loved playing CVS2 trying to get good enough to challenge God Rugal and Shin Akuma. SFV's launch was abysmal and it drove me away. I stopped playing before any of the DLC characters I wanted to play even released, and now I feel like if I hop on the only people to play against are going to totally outclass me.