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[KKRT00]

His shirt had some very off effects on it, could be part of the compression tho

also in motion there's very weird effects going on with Drake's shirt when he's talking about being "spoken for". Just look at the shoulders in the Gamersyde video.

Its from DoF blending. I find it more distracting than dithered shadows.

 

[Deasnutz]

Nice to see some potential TLOU style beatdowns in UC4. I need finish my Nate Dog collection this weekend, see if it keeps up with how I remembered. Oh snap, the UC4 beta is out...nevermind.

 

[Maintenance]

This happens in VA many times, if she's the right voice for the character then I don't see a problem, it is Voice Acting, not like Rooney Mara playing an indian or a "Gods of Egypt" situation, those ones were terrible.

 

[Deasnutz]

I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an issue of underrepresentation in the industry, and this was a great opportunity to give a black voice actor a chance. That's all.

Why do you recommend?

 

[Alienous]

Sounds like someone trying to do a South African accent but it's coming out as Australian.

I don't know why they didn't get a South African actress, because I can hear what they're going for but I could imagine something more natural working better. I suppose it's the same situation as Lazarevic, though.

To be honest I like what Laura's doing more than what Nolan is. I guess he's trying to make Drake sound older?

 

[Basketball]

It's like a civil war in here

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

This happens in VA many times, if she's the right voice for the character then I don't see a problem, it is Voice Acting, not like Rooney Mara playing an indian or a "Gods of Egypt" situation, those ones were terrible.

She's also doing motion, performance, and facial capture of a person of color along with their voice, like all the actors in this game. That's where I really have issues with this because it's more than just voicing a person of color but also literally acting as one, too.

 

[camac002]

they can look so real at times

 

[BlackBanditSho]

If she was the best actress to audition, then fuckin' a, she gets the role.

Two thirds of Laura Bailey's career basically consists of voicing 90 different Asian women.

the problem with this conversation is that there's an assumption of ND being purposefully racially ignorant, or that people questioning this, too racially sensitive. the real issue falls somewhere in the middle.

When Nirolak posted that 2/3rds of Laura Bailey's career consists of voicing 90 different Asian women, the issue isn't one of her competence or skill, but rather why the heck is she voicing 90 different Asian women??

The real question is why is the selection pool so damn tiny? I get there's comfort in dependability and skill and familiarity with the voice director, but the real issue is why isn't the talent pool a little more diverse? This has NOTHING to do with the talent of actors, or the predisposition of the director. In order for this kind of thing to change, the casting directors MUST go outside of the immediacy of their comfort zone in order to broaden their possibilities.

The argument that she was the absolute best person for the job is dismissive. I'm sure that she's the cream of the crop . . . of a very small pool of talent.

You don't see minorities in these spaces due to a lack of skill, but rather a lack of opportunity and social connections. That's the reality of it.

There are several people on this board arguing about the physiology of voices between ethnicities is the same - which is totally true. However, our vocal patterns are learned behaviors based on social interaction. Somebody posted a video a few pages back where people would try to guess the ethnicity of a hidden voice. I used to play this game all of the time. 9 out of 10 times, you can pretty much tell the ethnicity of someone without seeing the and without 'slang' due to inflection and tone. That's learned behavior.

Phil Lamarr can be a black guy voicing an ageless white Kojima vampire because the social context isn't even important. Dropping a black female main character into an uncharted game isn't a small thing. There were zero actresses closer to the ethnicity of the target character that it would be easer to pay a good white actress to fake an accent than hire anything even approaching authentic?

 

[firehawk12]

they can look so real at times

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-12-05-043ipk0.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-12-05-04irqiz.png

Their faces have that LA Noire look where the face itself looks too real when compared to the rest of the body/environment, so it just looks kind of weird.

 

[JordanN]

Their faces have that LA Noire look where the face itself looks too real when compared to the rest of the body/environment, so it just looks kind of weird.

Yeah.

I feel like we need a new CG breakthrough. Just like how SSS helped showed how humans can look real, we need something that makes everything look real now.

 

[Curufinwe]

Two thirds of Laura Bailey's career basically consists of voicing 90 different Asian women.

Best Bailey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR-7DCUnWo8

 

[Baroquemantic]

Their faces have that LA Noire look where the face itself looks too real when compared to the rest of the body/environment, so it just looks kind of weird.

I don't agree. I think everything here blends together really well. LA Noire looked like they took recorded video and pasted the footage onto the character models. None of the other UC4 footage gives off an LA vibe either, in my opinion. It all looks natural

 

[Andy Believes]

Again, it's less the voice acting that most have problems with and the actual literal acting that makes this an issue. in a film, would you be okay with a white person acting as an asian person? Or a white person acting as a black person in a film (not counting the obvious satirical use of blackface in something like tropic thunder of course)? There's a long and dark history regarding white people playing people of color and this is uncomfortably close to playing into that.

I can kinda swallow it if it was just voice work. It's when it's also actual acting where I find it much more troubling. and it should be, really.

What is the actual acting? Motion capture is not acting.

In that case, were you upset when Jack Black and not a Panda played a Panda's role in Kung Fu Panda? They motion captured Jack's facial animations as well, if I remember correctly.

 

[PBY]

the problem with this conversation is that there's an assumption of ND being purposefully racially ignorant, or that people questioning this, too racially sensitive. the real issue falls somewhere in the middle.

When Nirolak posted that 2/3rds of Laura Bailey's career consists of voicing 90 different Asian women, the issue isn't one of her competence or skill, but rather why the heck is she voicing 90 different Asian women??

The real question is why is the selection pool so damn tiny? I get there's comfort in dependability and skill and familiarity with the voice director, but the real issue is why isn't the talent pool a little more diverse? This has NOTHING to do with the talent of actors, or the predisposition of the director. In order for this kind of thing to change, the casting directors MUST go outside of the immediacy of their comfort zone in order to broaden their possibilities.

The argument that she was the absolute best person for the job is dismissive. I'm sure that she's the cream of the crop . . . of a very small pool of talent.

You don't see minorities in these spaces due to a lack of skill, but rather a lack of opportunity and social connections. That's the reality of it.

This. So much this.

I'm actually shocked at some of these responses.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Their faces have that LA Noire look where the face itself looks too real when compared to the rest of the body/environment, so it just looks kind of weird.

The uncanny valley strikes again.

What is the actual acting? Motion capture is not acting.

In that case, were you upset when Jack Black and not a Panda played a Panda's role in Kung Fu Panda? They motion captured Jack's facial animations as well, if I remember correctly.

Have you seen Jack Black?

Conversation over.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

I get that everyone's like "It's voice acting" but there aren't that many jobs for black woman in the voice acting industry and this is a continued trend of colored characters being voiced by white people. I can think of at least a half dozen cases in this console cycle. Why not give it to a black woman? Yeah, maybe Laura Bailey would be better, but you'd be giving a black woman a job, a chance to show her chops, put her name out. And it's not like there aren't high profile black female voice actors? Aisha Tyler might have questionable taste in humor, but she's a really good voice actor! It's just, this decision is extra confusing because her design is very realistic and against the norm for most female game characters. This could have easily been a slam god damn dunk...

 

[False Witness]

I wonder what's going to happen when it is revealed that Merle Dandridge is playing a white woman in UC4. Are people going to demand that her and Laura switch characters?

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

What is the actual acting? Motion capture is not acting.

In that case, were you upset when Jack Black and not a Panda played a Panda's role in Kung Fu Panda? They motion captured Jack's facial animations as well, if I remember correctly.

A) i sincerely doubt motion capture was used for a cartoon panda
B) are you really comparing someone voicing a cartoon panda to a white person doing motion, facial, performance, and voice acting for a person of color? Do you sincerely think these are the same thing?

I wonder what's going to happen when it is revealed that Merle Dandridge is playing a white woman in UC4. Are people going to demand that her and Laura switch characters?

there's an ignorance regarding the history of white people playing black actors that seems to be flying over the heads of way too many people

 

[Hamster Plugin]

Can't wait for people to complain that you shouldn't have a fight scene between a male and female in a game.

I can already see the Anita video.

Anita already made a video about Assassin's Creed Syndicate, a game that has female gang members as enemies all over the place, and you get to fight them as the male protagonist too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OzKTAYkyTE

Meanwhile, U4 does not seem to have any female enemies except for Nadine, so it looks like Ubisoft is better than Naughty Dog at gender diversity these days.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I wonder what's going to happen when it is revealed that Merle Dandridge is playing a white woman in UC4. Are people going to demand that her and Laura switch characters?

No they will question why the character is white.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't agree. I think everything here blends together really well. LA Noire looked like they took recorded video and pasted the footage onto the character models. None of the other UC4 footage gives off an LA vibe either, in my opinion. It all looks natural

Maybe it's just the stills and the short video I saw from the show last night, but it does have that uncanny valley vibe for me anyway. Of course I'm sure a lot of this is subjective, but like their hair and their clothes don't look as detailed as their faces.

 

[jurgen]

I'm okay with Laura Bailey getting the role in the same way I was okay with this man playing a Greek:

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't agree. I think everything here blends together really well. LA Noire looked like they took recorded video and pasted the footage onto the character models. None of the other UC4 footage gives off an LA vibe either, in my opinion. It all looks natural

That is LAN's method. It's why the characters look exactly like their actors. They can't alter their appearance at all. It's also why the body and head look disconnected in the game. The actors had to sit completely still while reading lines and then they had to record the body separately. It was a dead end street as far as tech goes even though it looked impressive.

 

[Andy Believes]

The uncanny valley strikes again.

Have you seen Jack Black?

Conversation over.

Touche! hahaha

 

[False Witness]

there's an ignorance regarding the history of white people playing black actors that seems to be flying over the heads of way too many people

I understand the context of what's going on perfectly well; this particular scenario just would be interesting is all. I don't even know for sure that Merle will be in the game or what character she would play if she were.

 

[Am_I_Evil]

I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an issue of underrepresentation in the industry, and this was a great opportunity to give a black voice actor a chance. That's all.

How do you know they didn't? Maybe the black VA's that auditioned weren't what they were looking for...should they have hired someone just because they were black regardless of talent?

 

[Ricky_R]

Sure; but this has also been used to handwave away whitewashing and various other injustices through time, so you can understand why some are skeptical.

I would understand skepticism if the developer's last game didn't have 4 black characters voiced by 4 black actors/people. They don't deserve the shit for what it's more than likely a creative decision.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Maybe it's just the stills and the short video I saw from the show last night, but it does have that uncanny valley vibe for me anyway. Of course I'm sure a lot of this is subjective, but like their hair and their clothes don't look as detailed as their faces.

It's all good. It's definitely a subjective thing. I tried to make my post clear that it was my opinion and not me telling you you're wrong.

That is LAN's method. It's why the characters look exactly like their actors. They can't alter their appearance at all. It's also why the body and head look disconnected in the game. The actors had to sit completely still while reading lines and then they had to record the body separately. It was a dead end street as far as tech goes even though it looked impressive.

Oh that's cool. Thanks for the info.

 

[Elfstruck]

Kinda surprised a developer like Naughty Dog cast her for that role. Surely they would have foreseen how it might be viewed as a controversial decision?

With ND, they don't give shits about these type of things, which is not bad thing.

 

[Ran rp]

there's an ignorance regarding the history of white people playing black actors that seems to be flying over the heads of way too many people

seriously

 

[strafer]

I'm okay with Laura Bailey getting the role in the same way I was okay with this man playing a Greek:

This actually blew my mind when I first saw it. Had no idea.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'm okay with Laura Bailey getting the role in the same way I was okay with this man playing a Greek:

In a 90s kind of world, I'm glad I got my girls.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

I thought if I skipped from p1 to the end we'd be off the race thing... but... nope...

Look at the liberals, y'all.

Race plus nationality come in hundreds of different combinations. Not only are there Black folks who actually sound like that, but there are actors who play other races all the time. Let alone voice actors. They voice animals, cars, toasters n shit. I mean come on.

Some of you desperately need to travel, or just get out of the house

Find a real problem, perhaps

 

[PBY]

How do you know they didn't? Maybe the black VA's that auditioned weren't what they were looking for...should they have hired someone just because they were black regardless of talent?

This is the weakest response to my view, and is something that regularly gets trotted out in these situations, but fails to grasp the issue.

 

[Slixshot]

the problem with this conversation is that there's an assumption of ND being purposefully racially ignorant, or that people questioning this, too racially sensitive. the real issue falls somewhere in the middle.

When Nirolak posted that 2/3rds of Laura Bailey's career consists of voicing 90 different Asian women, the issue isn't one of her competence or skill, but rather why the heck is she voicing 90 different Asian women??

The real question is why is the selection pool so damn tiny? I get there's comfort in dependability and skill and familiarity with the voice director, but the real issue is why isn't the talent pool a little more diverse? This has NOTHING to do with the talent of actors, or the predisposition of the director. In order for this kind of thing to change, the casting directors MUST go outside of the immediacy of their comfort zone in order to broaden their possibilities.

The argument that she was the absolute best person for the job is dismissive. I'm sure that she's the cream of the crop . . . of a very small pool of talent.

You don't see minorities in these spaces due to a lack of skill, but rather a lack of opportunity and social connections. That's the reality of it.

There are several people on this board arguing about the physiology of voices between ethnicities is the same - which is totally true. However, our vocal patterns are learned behaviors based on social interaction. Somebody posted a video a few pages back where people would try to guess the ethnicity of a hidden voice. I used to play this game all of the time. 9 out of 10 times, you can pretty much tell the ethnicity of someone without seeing the and without 'slang' due to inflection and tone. That's learned behavior.

Phil Lamarr can be a black guy voicing an ageless white Kojima vampire because the social context isn't even important. Dropping a black female main character into an uncharted game isn't a small thing. There were zero actresses closer to the ethnicity of the target character that it would be easer to pay a good white actress to fake an accent than hire anything even approaching authentic?

You make the clearest point out of anyone else I've seen in this thread. Most are just throwing up their arms, but you explain the issue very well.

For the bold: Why is it Naughty Dog's job to do this though? From Naughty Dog's side, it's safe to go with a well known VA and risk is something that businesses want to avoid. What incentive to casting directors have to change the status quo?

 

[hohoXD123]

Am I outraged that they cast a white woman to voice a black character because she turned out to be the best from the auditions? No...no, I'm not.

Now then, she seems like a very interesting character, wonder how she fits into the story.

 

[PBY]

You make the clearest point out of anyone else I've seen in this thread. Most are just throwing up their arms, but you explain the issue very well.

For the bold: Why is it Naughty Dog's job to do this though? From Naughty Dog's side, it's safe to go with a well known VA and risk is something that businesses want to avoid. What incentive to casting directors have to change the status quo?

They don't really have an incentive, which is why these issues are criticized, discussed and analyzed in forums just like this one.

 

[potatohead]

This actually blew my mind when I first saw it. Had no idea.

Yep Kratos is actually black

 

[Raitosaito]

I'm okay with Laura Bailey getting the role in the same way I was okay with this man playing a Greek:

Pretty much this. Naughty Dog and Sony WWS has always hired a pretty diverse cast, and tlou obviously proves that. There are too many variables we don't know about with the current trailer to come to a conclusion on why Bailey was picked.

 

[Andy Believes]

A) i sincere doubt motion capture was used for a cartoon panda
B) are you really comparing someone voicing a cartoon panda to a white person doing motion, facial, performance, and voice acting for a person of color? Do you sincerely think these are the same thing?



there's an ignorance regarding the history of white people playing black actors that seems to be flying over the heads of way too many people

A) As far as I am aware, they did and then animated (same as ND)
B) It is VA performance. I doubt that still is considered acting. Voice Acting, yes; Acting, No.

Spoiler

And before you fly of the handle, no, I am not white.

 

[Slixshot]

They don't really have an incentive, which is why these issues are criticized, discussed and analyzed in forums just like this one.

Hahahah well then...

We shall continue!

 

[Guess Who]

Mostly I'm just impressed with Bailey's range here as this character sounds nothing like anything I've heard from her before.

 

[Endo Punk]

There's absolutely something to be said about white voice actor playing a black role when white roles dominate the industry but there's also something to said about simply being appropriate for the voice role regardless of ethnicity. All I'm gonna say is, I love the character.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Mostly I'm just impressed with Bailey's range here as this character sounds nothing like anything I've heard from her before.

Yeah, this right here. I didn't even know it was her until coming into this thread.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Look at the liberals, y'all.

That's really what you're going with?

 

[thelastword]

I really don't get this. It's acting. They don't have to find a black, martial arts trained mercenary to voice the role.

Exactly, come on guys, the guys who voices Kratos and Sagat are black, but these characters are not black, it's the perfect voice-fit for the character, not the color of his skin. In any case, all black people don't speak alike, so the best fit should take precedence.

 

[PBY]

I thought if I skipped from p1 to the end we'd be off the race thing... but... nope...

Look at the liberals, y'all.

Race plus nationality come in hundreds of different combinations. Not only are there Black folks who actually sound like that, but there are actors who play other races all the time. Let alone voice actors. They voice animals, cars, toasters n shit. I mean come on.

Some of you desperately need to travel, or just get out of the house

Find a real problem, perhaps

Smh, really added to the value of this discussion with this. I'm sure many people felt this way about social issues 30, 50, or 100 years ago. If everyone felt this way nothing would ever change.

Bang that drum tho.

 

[firehawk12]

They don't really have an incentive, which is why these issues are criticized, discussed and analyzed in forums just like this one.

It seems to require at least some effort. Like when Pixar were casting for Up, I'm sure they had to at least have it in mind that they probably should have an Asian actor for Russell... and it just worked out for them that they found an Asian kid that they could use.

Come to think of it, Disney has been fairly good with this. Lilo and Stitch and Mulan also come to mind.

 

[PBY]

Exactly, come on guys, the guys who voices Kratos and Sagat are black, but these characters are not black, it's the perfect voice-fit for the character, not the color of his skin. In any case, all black people don't speak alike, so the best fit should take precedence.

Re: the bolded, you should really take a look at the long post on the last page. Its not about forcing minorities into certain buckets, its that the "best fit" is a fallacy considering the opportunities afforded to certain subsets of the industry. Thats where that argument falls apart.