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[DedValve]

And

Spoiler

Bill

.

I feel it's mostly at the end of the game. The game

Spoiler

makes her into a villain, somewhat,

which plays into the trope even if it doesn't play as heavily as Daisy does. I admit that I overstated how much she did, looking back on it now. But I have seen it mentioned around before and I do think there is something to the criticism. Daisy is infinitely worse, though.

I want to chime in n that the only "villain" in that game was

Spoiler

David. Joel was heavily implied to have done awful, perhaps evil things as well.

If anything

Spoiler

Marlene wanted to save the world. Joel would rather have it burn.

Neither was wrong and nobody never got in the way of anybody until the very end where it simply comes down to ideology. The needs of the few vs the needs of the many. Neither side was wrong.

Edit: I'm like 20 pages late to this lol.

New girl l looks amazing. Can you play as story characters in multiplayer?

 

[The Artisan]

Old and much more Handsome

I think ND said in one of the twitch steams that he's in his 40s now

 

[DarkLordMalik]

joke post?

I should elaborate, as good as the graphics are. That section looks really really bad, the lip sync is way off and the little break in animation looks terrible.

Not talking about animation or lip sync here. Just the graphics. The animation was definitely the weak point in this trailer. Like when Drake got kicked, it looked really bad and Janky =/

 

[JumpCancel]

Looks like Nadine's gonna grapefruit her man.

Graphics compared to previous uncharted's is amazing. Serious step up by NaughtyDog.

Looking forward to it, and I'm not a fan of the uncharted games.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's been brought up before but the current list of high profile of voice actors is incredibly white. Here was a chance to allow that group to diversify some with a high profile role for a female person of color and...they went with a well established white actress instead.

So, no, it's not their job to help fix this issue but this casting choice at the very least is uninspired and incredibly disappointing, and that's not counting how it also makes me a bit uncomfortable because of the racial factors at play.

You are not ask for diversify IMO .
Since you think she has to be played by a black person .
Suppose she was played by a india , asian , hispanic woman would you still have a problem ?

 

[ZangBa]

I think ND said in one of the twitch steams that he's in his 40s now

Damn he's old as hell now, Sully must be 100.

 

[Hubb]

Here is a GIF for the new page. She looks to be a boxer, no?

I don't know what it is, but it looks off to me. Right when her neck snaps into place/how her neck snaps into place it starts to look like her face is photoshopped on. I don't know if it is because the rest of her body is so animated and her face has absolutely no movement or what. Something just looks off with her face.

Edit: I should add that I only have that issue with this segment/this gif. The teaser video looked great.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Why is it appropriate for that character ?
ND job is not to make the industry better at the cost of there game , time or money .
It's there job to make the best game they can with the resources they have .

Because the character is a person of color.
Of course its not ND job to do anything they don't want to but I can also criticize them for it.

 

[Alienous]

It's been brought up before but the current list of high profile of voice actors is incredibly white. Here was a chance to allow that group to diversify some with a high profile role for a female person of color and...they went with a well established white actress instead.

So, no, it's not their job to help fix this issue but this casting choice at the very least is uninspired and incredibly disappointing, and that's not counting how it also makes me a bit uncomfortable because of the racial factors at play.

Considering going from Stashwick to Baker, and Naughty Dog's diverse casting with The Last of Us, I'm getting the feeling that the team having to re-record the performances following the departure of the original performance team probably influenced the casting.

I'd expect them to cast a South African actress, but in the context of the seemingly rough performance capture situation with Uncharted 4 (a lot of it having to be scrapped) I could see the casting process being truncated; less "let's look for actors who might be good for the role but we'll have to train regarding motion-capture acting" and more "hey Troy, Laura, we need your help getting this done".

 

[orthodoxy1095]

It's been brought up before but the current list of high profile of voice actors is incredibly white. Here was a chance to allow that group to diversify some with a high profile role for a female person of color and...they went with a well established white actress instead.

So, no, it's not their job to help fix this issue but this casting choice at the very least is uninspired and incredibly disappointing, and that's not counting how it also makes me a bit uncomfortable because of the racial factors at play.

So, even given their track record in previous games, you're not going to give them the benefit of the doubt? You're going to ignore the game's troubled development that could have played into the decision?

Considering going from Stashwick to Baker, and Naughty Dog's diverse casting with The Last of Us, I'm getting the feeling that the team having to re-record the performances following the departure of the original performance team probably influenced the casting.

I'd expect them to cast a South African actress, but in the context of the seemingly rough performance capture situation I could see the casting process being truncated; less "let's look for actors who might be good for the role but we'll have to train regarding motion-capture acting" and more "hey Troy, Laura, we need your help getting this done".

Yep, yep, yep.

I don't see why more people don't get this as being a distinct possibility with the game that we can't ignore.

Because the character is a person of color.
Of course its not ND job to do anything they don't want to but I can also criticize them for it.

So people of color can only play people of color?

 

[Meccanical]

Here is a GIF for the new page. She looks to be a boxer, no?

Big props for ND not being afraid to give her a fighter's body.

 

[ZangBa]

I don't know what it is, but it looks off to me. Right when her neck snaps into place/how her neck snaps into place it starts to look like her face is photoshopped on. I don't know if it is because the rest of her body is so animated and her face has absolutely no movement or what. Something just looks off with her face.

She looks like she's about to pull off that magic trick where her head falls off into her arms. Looks really weird.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I don't know what it is, but it looks off to me. Right when her neck snaps into place/how her neck snaps into place it starts to look like her face is photoshopped on. I don't know if it is because the rest of her body is so animated and her face has absolutely no movement or what. Something just looks off with her face.

I completely agree that the animation is really bad here. There are a lot of points where it is obvious. The first attack on Drake, the second attack with the kick, etc. Maybe it is still being worked on? But the graphics are a huge step up from their previous work.

 

[Shadax the wizard]

About Nadine's face animation being stiff or robotic; after watching it several times now I agree that something in the opening seems a bit off. In her first line "You're not supposed to be back here" it looks like she's frowning and smiling at the same time, I think that's it. The rest looks natural though. The graphics are just amazing!

 

[orthodoxy1095]

About Nadine's face animation being stiff or robotic; after watching it several times now I agree that something in the opening seems a bit off. In her first line "You're not supposed to be back here" it looks like she's frowning and smiling at the same time, I think that's it. The rest looks natural though. The graphics are just amazing!

Is it that they're trying to capture a natural transition from a smile into a frown? I'm not sure if that explains it, but probably not.

 

[PBY]

So, even given their track record in previous games, you're not going to give them the benefit of the doubt? You're going to ignore the game's troubled development that could have played into the decision?

Yep, yep, yep.

I don't see why more people don't get this as being a distinct possibility with the game that we can't ignore.

So people of color can only play people of color?

Why does this have to be a ND? We can look at this, and justify or not, but regardless, its an issue in the entertainment industry. Don't take it personally, just see it as possibly a signal of broader industry issues. Thats it.

 

[Ricky_R]

It's been brought up before but the current list of high profile of voice actors is incredibly white. Here was a chance to allow that group to diversify some with a high profile role for a female person of color and...they went with a well established white actress instead.

So, no, it's not their job to help fix this issue but this casting choice at the very least is uninspired and incredibly disappointing, and that's not counting how it also makes me a bit uncomfortable because of the racial factors at play.

Lord, I'll repeat this again. They casted FOUR black voice actors to voice four black characters in their last game/dlc. You could even argue that all four them were pretty strong, well represented characters.

There's no fucking racism at play here. They don't deserve the shit, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Whatever reason they had, it should be classified as a creative decision.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Not talking about animation or lip sync here. Just the graphics. The animation was definitely the weak point in this trailer. Like when Drake got kicked, it looked really bad and Janky =/

Ah ok then, I do agree she looks great. But man, that animation, and that gif captures the worst part!

Lord, I'll repeat this again. They casted FOUR black voice actors to voice four black characters in their last game/dlc. You could argue that all four them were pretty strong, well represented characters.

There's no fucking racism at play here. They don't deserve the shit, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Whatever reason they had, it should be classified as a creative decision.

That's great and all but people can still be disappointed in a decision. That's all us on our side of the argument are saying. We're disappointed in the decision. We, well I certainly, was not calling ND racists earlier in the thread, I don't think they made the choice out of racist spite. But I'm disappointed in the choice they made. Is that not allowed?

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

Lord, I'll repeat this again. They casted FOUR black voice actors to voice four black characters in their last game/dlc. You could argue that all four them were pretty strong, well represented characters.

There's no fucking racism at play here. They don't deserve the shit, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Whatever reason they had, it should be classified as a creative decision.

I never said they were intentionally being racists. Or being racists at all. This casting choice does strike me as incredibly tone deaf, though.

I said this earlier, just because they've been right up until now does not mean that they'll always be right.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Why does this have to be a ND? We can look at this, and justify or not, but regardless, its an issue in the entertainment industry. Don't take it personally, just see it as possibly a signal of broader industry issues. Thats it.

This is a thread about Naughty Dog, so the conversation is inherently about Naughty Dog and if we're going to critique them, we should also be intelligent enough to be aware about the factors surrounding the product we criticize. The game went through a rough development period at times, and casting is a part of that development. We can't look at things like this in insolation.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

As for this discussion going on, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Naughty Dog hires the best and Laura Bailey was the best.

 

[Lord Error]

again, what i'm trying to argue against is that this isn't solely voice work. She is also acting as a person of color. At least in the states, this is a controversial thing to do given the racially charged history associated in white people acting as a person of color.

You're insisting that there's some big distinction there, but realistically, there isn't. Someone voicing out a black person in a demeaning way or in a stereotypical voice would be no different, really. It would be not simply controversial, but shameful. But that's not happening here. The only potential issue here is that since it's more difficult for POC to get a job in this industry, casting directors should be going a bit out of their way to help the matters. But in this case I guess they didn't. They might have just hired the first person who knew how to do the character really well, and that was it. I think this game has gone through a bit of development hell to be honest, and I think they had much bigger issues to deal with (like getting it done out on time, or done at all) than expending any extra time on stuff like this.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Big hands, big... gloves?

Big-ass ring.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

So people of color can only play people of color?

Depending on the project, yes. For something like this, where you have mo-cap along with a realistic tone and graphics. Absolutely.

 

[PBY]

This is a thread about Naughty Dog, so the conversation is inherently about Naughty Dog and if we're going to critique them, we should also be intelligent enough to be aware about the factors surrounding the product we criticize.

Stop taking it as some sort of negative criticism of Naughty Dog; I'm not trying to get into the intent or malicious purpose in this, as I'm not ascribing any sort of negative motives to the studio. I'm just disappointed that a black character didn't afford a black voice actor the opportunity, and it presents an interesting jumping off point to discuss the racial issues in the industry and certain racial challenges that could arise from a black character being voiced by a white actor.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Damn he's old as hell now, Sully must be 100.

He was probably in his late 30's in the Uncharted 3 flashback, so I'm assuming he's pushing 70 now.

This was Paul Newman in his 70's in Nobody's Fool, playing a character named Sully:

 

[Skux]

The real issue here is that people mistook a South African accent for an Australian accent.

 

[DISSESHOWEDO]

joke post?

I should elaborate, as good as the graphics are. That section looks really really bad, the lip sync is way off and the little break in animation looks terrible.

She is trying to intimidate him feim the begining, that is why it looks to you the lip sync is off!!! Try it yourself infront of the mirror! ND are setting for what's about to follow which is a fight. This is a technique used in cinema!

His post is actually correct, while yours seem to head into direction of a joke, imo!

 

[bud]

I said, wow! This is like a pre-rendered movie.

that looks so bad.

i used to think naughty dog were one of the devs that got it right with the eyes.

drake looks so much more realistic because his eyes seem more natural.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The real issue here is that people mistook a South African accent for an Australian accent.

So fucking true.

And EL OH EL, at all those people saying this (the graphics) looks horrible, terrible, bad, etc.

Hyperbole your way into the account deactivation page, please.

 

[cloudzack117]

she reminds me of that hacker from fast and furious 7 lo. funny seeing drake get his ass kicked in

 

[The Artisan]

Damn he's old as hell now, Sully must be 100.

Lol, I dunno about that (and you're probably joking)

 

[Ran rp]

Lord, I'll repeat this again. They casted FOUR black voice actors to voice four black characters in their last game/dlc. You could even argue that all four them were pretty strong, well represented characters.

There's no fucking racism at play here. They don't deserve the shit, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Whatever reason they had, it should be classified as a creative decision.

honestly, who's calling naughty dog racist?

 

[Henkka]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, the facial animation looks fantastic imo. Maybe they're just finally hitting the uncanny valley? They look so photorealistic that any tiny imperfection looks jarring, whereas previous Uncharted games were more cartoony.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

She is trying to intimidate him feim the begining, that is why it looks to you the lip sync is off!!! Try it yourself infront of the mirror! ND are setting for what's about to follow which is a fight. This is a technique used in cinema!

Lol, it could, you know, just be off. Someone earlier in this thread told me I thought it looked weird because in actuality it looked too good and I wasn't used to that

 

[Salex_]

....really? I would have never expected this thread to turn out like this after watching that trailer. I thought this thread would be positive because she looked like a strong (literally), well designed non-stereotypical character that happened to be a black woman.

Troy Baker voiced Delsin, an native American in Infamous and everyone was fine with that.

Yep, I don't remember seeing a single post bringing this up. Seems like the outrages only applies to Black vs White.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

She is trying to intimidate him feim the begining, that is why it looks to you the lip sync is off!!! Try it yourself infront of the mirror! ND are setting for what's about to follow which is a fight. This is a technique used in cinema!

No, like literally the lip sync is off and the animation breaks into a different one halfway through a sentence. Notice the jitter of the animation before she raises her eyebrows.

edit: actually the gif is broken. my b.

 

[JaseMath]

that looks so bad.

i used to think naughty dog were one of the devs that got it right with the eyes.

drake looks so much more realistic because his eyes seem more natural.

I think it's the lack of catchlight in her eyes. Makes her (and Drake) look like a robot.

 

[InsaneTiger]

They also didn't use kids for the roles of Ellie and Riley.

What? No way.

Oh and Nathan in a dress shirt.

 

[Ricky_R]

I said this earlier, just because they've been right up until now does not mean that they'll always be right.

No, what it means is that they're sensitive to the situation, but wouldn't force a creative decision because of it. They deserve that at least.

They could've made a white character and avoid all this bullshit, but they didn't. They opted for who appears to be a strong black female character voiced by whoever the hell they thought was ideal for the job.

 

[Alienous]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, the facial animation looks fantastic imo. Maybe they're just finally hitting the uncanny valley? They look so photorealistic that any tiny imperfection looks jarring, whereas previous Uncharted games were more cartoony.

Nah, I can almost envision the animation bones. Like her eyebrows go straight up and down at the same speed, it looks robotic.

It's stiff. They've done better in prior Uncharted 4 footage, with Drake, Sully and Sam.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Depending on the project, yes. For something like this, where you have mo-cap along with a realistic tone and graphics. Absolutely.

Why? So a black man couldn't play a Hispanic man? An Asian man can't play a white man? Why? What about their physical appearance has any bearing on their voice acting skills?

Troy Baker voiced Delsin, an native American in Infamous and everyone was fine with that. You don't need to be your characters race to voice them. I mean imagine Darth Vader without his iconic voice, or the shredder. A voice is just a voice, I see no issue here. Now if they used her actual appearance and just darken her skin in game, than that would be bit of an issue.

Haha, forgot that was Troy actually. Amazing.

Stop taking it as some sort of negative criticism of Naughty Dog; I'm not trying to get into the intent or malicious purpose in this, as I'm not ascribing any sort of negative motives to the studio. I'm just disappointed that a black character didn't afford a black voice actor the opportunity, and it presents an interesting jumping off point to discuss the racial issues in the industry and certain racial challenges that could arise from a black character being voiced by a white actor.

I'm pretty sure that if we want to discuss general industry issues, it'd be more appropriate for you to open a new thread rather than to drag it through a thread about a single game's new trailer.

 

[GravityInsanity]

that looks so bad.

i used to think naughty dog were one of the devs that got it right with the eyes.

drake looks so much more realistic because his eyes seem more natural.

If that looks bad, I wonder what looks good to you.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Animation looks really bad? What the hell am I reading on this page. The graphics are a lot better so it's a lot more obvious when animations and lip sync aren't perfect, but both are still really, really good here. Just look how expressive they are; the little eye movements, the wrinkling of the brow, etc. It's insane.

 

[nbnt]

that looks so bad.

i used to think naughty dog were one of the devs that kinda got the natural eyes thing right.

That gif is missing frames. And it's in reverse?

You can see the subtle movements in her eyes.

 

[zsynqx]

That gif is missing frames. And it's in reverse?

LMAO.

 

[Alienous]

If that looks bad, I wonder what looks good to you.

 

[ZangBa]

Clearly they should have hired Amanda Strawn, the voice actress of the well regarded Letitia of Deus Ex:HR.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

That gif is missing frames. And it's in reverse?

Damn, I just realized it was in reverse. Sorry everyone. It was my mistake.

 

[kyser73]

The real issue here is that people mistook a South African accent for an Australian accent.

Not me. It's actually a very good South African accent - she sounds like someone I know from Capetown.

As opposed to Pitsy Kinsit in Lithil Wippin 2.