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Uncharted is a legit great TPS (mechanics, encounters, level design)

UPDATING with some of my own gameplay clips:

Here are the two gameplay clips I have. I'll update the OP with them. When I made these I didn't have demonstration purposes in mind, but maybe that's for the best as it's less practiced? I'm definitely sloppy at times but I think it's clear in both these clips what Uncharted does that no other TPS that I'm aware of does, and how taking advantage of the move set and level design is beneficial in combat.

These clips were played on NORMAL difficulty. I didn't record the entirety of the encounter for 3's clip unfortunately, and I cut off my embarrassing death at the end too lol.

Uncharted 2 combat

Uncharted 3 combat

I didn't choose set pieces since the best way to show off core combat is in the arena levels. If anybody wants to see more gameplay on different stages, difficulties, or even different playthroughs of the same level I'd be happy to do that at some point.



A common criticism I hear about the Uncharted series, even among those who like the series, is that the gameplay--specifically the combat--is poor, mediocre, boring, filled with bullet sponges, generic cover shooter, etc. And, after revisiting the series through the PS4 collection, where I payed particular attention the combat mechanics, level design, and encounter design, I can safely say that people who have those criticisms are either out of their damn minds, or have been playing the games in the least fun way imaginable.

I am going to be discussing Uncharted 2 and 3 here, because while the first game is still a okay TPS, it was a mere stepping stone for what was accomplished in the sequels (yes, Uncharted 3 has good combat too, apart from a few shit encounters and worse hit reactions. It's makes some nice changes to make the combat even more mobile. Uncharted 2 is still tops though).
Uncharted-3-Drake-s-Deception-17.jpg

Uncharted combat is about movement. I cannot stress that enough. Yes, there is cover in the games and yes it's important, but it's not there to simply hide behind and poke your head out to take shots the entire time, and doing so would ignore the vast amount of tools you have to be mobile in combat. I'll start with player mechanics. In combat, Drake runs faster than normal, and he still has access to his roll, climbing abilities, jumping, and melee. These all serve to empower the player to move around in the combat arenas. Hip fire is extremely important for this as well, because it allows you to engage in combat without slowing down, and is very effective given its generous auto aim. You also have regenerative health, which was not something that was decided on a whim, or to cater to modern design trends, but to encourage you to move around in combat because you don't have to worry about taking permanent damage. That's what the cover is for, to recover, survey your surroundings, and take out a few guys before going on the move again. The melee system also allows you to weaken enemies with gunfire, and then knock them out with a single hit without losing momentum, or to engage in fisticuffs to stop an enemy from gunning you down at close range. These mechanics all combine to give the player and incredibly scrappy, fluid move set. The two weapon limit is also part of this design decision. Not only does each weapon have a fairly specific function, forcing you to try and pick up different ones for specific enemy types, but they also run out of ammo a decent amount so you have to leave cover and to pick up more. The simplicity of the controls and mechanics for all these actions aren't a lack of depth either, they are simple so that it's easy manageable for you to do all the crazy mobile adventurer combat without wresting with the controls, trying to remember how to do a hand to hand combo or do some timing based button presses while you're scaling a wall to get to higher ground.

The level design facilitates and rewards movement. All the combat arenas are in some way about verticality. These vantage points reward players for scrambling up them in a shootout with a height advantage, and frequently power weapons as well. Each arena feels really unique and handcrafted to offer some twist on player mobility, and always gives tons of options to player. Some highlights include a shootout where you are flipping around a sign post, using the signs as cover from enemies that come out in various directions, an arena in a blizzard where the toppled train cars act as vantage points, and a ship graveyard where the player can dive into the water and swim between floating platforms to avoid enemies and gain better tactical ground.


Set-pieces are all about movement in combat too. What Uncharted gets that other cinematic games don't, is that the set-pieces aren't about passive spectacle, but are actually special level/encounter design tweaks that force you to fight in an even more mobile way using the core mechanics. A shoot out jumping from jeep to jeep as they explode, running around in a collapsing building dodging debris as you hip fire, fighting in an exploding airplane as cover slides around dynamically. Set-pieces in Uncharted shouldn't be talked about separately from the games combat, because they are a part of it, fully enmeshed in the game's level/encounter design.

Yes, the enemies are designed to make you move, too. I always hear the enemies in Uncharted are bullet sponges, and no they're not really apart from some specific enemies (more on that in a bit). They may take a little longer to kill than other shooters enemies, but that's actually a good thing. Why? Well first of all, they take more damage the closer you are. This again, is to get you to move and take advantage of your toolset and the levels to get closer to enemies. And if you could drop every enemy in 1-2 shots without head-shots, then you'd never have to leave cover. The enemies have lots of tactics to get you to move. Snipers have laser sights where the only way you can avoid their one hit KO is if you move and roll around. Grenades are meant to flush you out of cover. Enemies are pretty good at flanking and rushing you as well, which means you have to move to different vantage points and take advantage of your melee and hip fire. Shield enemies force you to use grenades (or run around looking for them), or to be mobile and get behind them. Now for the actual bullet sponge enemies: the armored guys. I really don't get the hate for them. They're intimidating and take a bunch of bullets, but their effect in encounters is great. They usually only have shotguns which means you have to take them out before they reach you, and they slow walk, so it's about taking them out (destroying their armor, which provides some nice visual feedback to make up for the abuse they can deal with) while managing the quicker, lighter enemies around them adding another dynamic and priority threat assessment in combat.


So, you could play the game mostly as a stop-and-pop shooter despite all the efforts and advantages the game gives you to do otherwise, but that's pretty boring and would likely take a lot longer and probably be harder too. Or, you could play like it's intended and it should look something like this (2min 45sec in and on. Not only is it fun and satisfying to play, but it looks awesome too. I was too lazy to upload my own gameplay, but all the shootouts in the game can be be done as fluid as this, and the demo player didn't even make use of some of the vertical arrangements in this particular level).

I was especially reminded of how good Uncharted's combat is because I finally picked up Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition and have made good progress in that. It's funny because many people think Tomb Raider has better combat, which kind of boggles my mind. I've heard that it has more "depth", which if you measure depth in terms of useless upgrades, you may be correct. But the combat in that game really does boil down to hiding behind cover, and easily gunning down the enemies, because they drop really easily, most of them don't have guns, the encounters don't make use of the open levels so they can't flank you, you can't hip fire so there's no point in trying to run around and make use of traversal skills in combat as you'll only soak up damage as you slowly over the shoulder aim, you carry tons of ammo and don't pick up enemy guns so you don't have to leave cover to retrieve more, there's an abundance of explosive barrels placed around enemies to take them out even easier, and only seldom do they throw Molotov's or send armored guys at you to flush you out.


So yeah, Uncharted is a great TPS series beyond just "pretty graphics, good story, and spectacle". Uncharted 4 is seems like its changing a lot of peoples minds on the games, but the truth is that while it looks incredible and a huge leap for the franchise, it's just building on what was already a rock solid combat philosophy that is unlike any other TPS out there, even among its imitators.

tumblr_ltp0h1Z9yp1qkmyrvo1_400.gif
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
Tell a lie long enough yada yada... not that many believe it, but I've seen others piggy back it just for the sake of pushing their view or dislike for the game. In the end, it's just a fart in the wind. Sometimes addressing it is more counter-productive than outright ignoring it. - due to the illusion of validation.
 

DocSeuss

Member
If I wasn't in the middle of pitching the EXACT OPPOSITE article to a major gaming website, I would post my reply here. As it stands, I feel I have to echo the first post: endless waves of bullet sponge enemies with poor weapon and enemy variation is not good game design.

It's one of the worst TPS series on the market.
 
I suppose so. I can't really disagree with anything you've said.

Unfortunately, replaying the Uncharted games via The Nathan Drake Collection has shown me that these games haven't aged well, at least for me. I'm not enjoying myself nearly as much as I did when I first played them. The first game in particular is just plain awful.

Fortunately, Uncharted 4 seems to be giving the player a lot more freedom in how they approach things. Replaying the trilogy has really dampened my excitement for that game though, I'll admit.

I still adore The Last of Us at least.
 

[HP]

Member
Absolutely, it's an amazing franchise that I've played through and through 3 or 4 times now. Uncharted 1 still has a sweet spot in my heart.

And the fact that we still talk about the first 3 games, years after their release must at least speak to their quality.
 
Completely agree OP. I even like the way the shooting feels in the latter two. If you are trying to discredit the game it seems like the easy path as the shooting is no halo or CoD, but it is still satisfying IMO.

The specific enemies that are impossible to kill (especially in 3) are a pain in the ass though.
 

Peltz

Member
I am sorry, but the controls just feel way too stiff and janky to me. They just didn't nail the feeling of movement for me. Animations take too long and aren't "solid" feeling.

Everything about these games feel pretty terrible from a gameplay perspective in my humble opinion.
 

Lingitiz

Member
Uncharted 3 has some truly atrocious encounter design. Enemies spawn in weird spots and they're overly spongey and repetitive. They have one hit kill weapons like grenade launchers, rockets, and snipers too that overwhelm you way too quickly. UC2 is a lot better but suffers from bad design choices, although less than the other games. The smurfs are especially bad in the back third of the game. I say this as a huge fan of the game, I just think it hasn't aged very well. Most of all though I feel like Uncharted just had poor hit reaction and feedback, partly due to the lack of blood and enemies not reacting correctly or taking way too many hits to actually die. It actually feels comparable to the Prometheans in Halo 4, which don't react or provide any indication that you're damaging them until they all of a sudden die. I love the Uncharted games but the mechanics are merely passable, not amazing. It's the storytelling, pacing, and variety that elevates the series.

In terms of pure mechanics I think Max Payne 3 is almost unmatched, especially on a mouse and keyboard. It just feels so smooth and the animations transition naturally without getting in the way of the gameplay. In terms of enemy variety and design, Gears is still up there just for the amount of different types there are and how they can mix things up really well. Granted, I don't think either game or series is as good as Uncharted 2 as a whole.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Yeah, I agree, especially in 2 and 3.

It is the best when you go into an area, and there is lots of places to hide and flank. The enemy tracks your last location, so you can flank them, climb shit, melee, run around the map.

It is a lot of great fun.
 

Wabba

Member
Great post and i agree with you 100%. The gameplay is fast, fluid with a lot of verticality making for some amazing moments. Doesn't hurt that Naughty Dog is masters of level design. Expect great things from Uncharted 4.
 

Striek

Member
I agree OP, mechanics in Uncharted games are insanely good, which is why I don't even try and argue the point here because I figure most posts against are agenda based and the others lack taste.

Same with TLoU where the downplaying of the actual _gameplay_ was incredible.

U2 in particular stands out with its strong level design and encounters. Lets not forget either Naughty Dog basically invented the whole "playable cutscene" thing by tying tight gameplay into previously static sequences. They went and solved QTE for an industry.
 

Y0j1mb0

Member
I can safely say that people who have those criticisms are either out of their damn minds, or have been playing the games in the least fun way imaginable.

I love me some Uncharted but no matter what you say, the people you shoot in the game are bullet sponges to the 5th power brother and I aint outta my damn mind.
 

Kar

Member
Set-pieces in Uncharted shouldn't be talked about separately from the games combat, because they are a part of it, fully enmeshed in the game's level/encounter design.
Well I disagree. With Uncharted, It feels like Naughty Dog start the level with the set-pieces in mind and only after they finish it, they design the rest of the level.
I personally dont like that approach and I think it damaged Uncharted 3's pacing quite a bit.
But I still think that Uncharted 2 is one of the best games of all times and Uncharted 4 is my most anticipated game at the moment.
 
Great post and i agree with you 100%. The gameplay is fast, fluid with a lot of verticality making for some amazing moments. Doesn't hurt that Naughty Dog is masters of level design. Expect great things from Uncharted 4.

Yup. I agree with this and the OP.
 
I stand with you OP. But as usual, you have stated your opinion on NeoGAF and by doing so you are told you are wrong in your opinion.

Thanks for the post OP.
 

Pappasman

Member
Really disagree. Uncharted is a mediocre at best TPS held together by likable dialogue and characters, brilliant presentation and music. Unfortunately those characters wade through weak stories on par with Indy 4. If UC was a series of movies it would get destroyed, but instead it gets to look good compared to the generally bad stories of most games.
 
The mechanics are great, they're just wasted on a lot of samey waves of enemies. The slight variations on environment design usually aren't enough to shake it up.

The bullet sponge stuff goes way too far in Uncharted 3. It just wasn't fun to play.
 
Its a good TPS, but stuff like Gears and Max Payne 3 are just straight up better in the gameplay department.

Max Payne 3 is the best TPS I've ever played, easily.

Absolutely disagree about Max Payne 3. If you want to talk about a game that has bullet sponge problems, I feel like I spent way more time trying to kill a single enemy in Max Payne 3 more than any game I can think of, not to mention the fact that the game minimalises the bullet time shenanigans that were so fun in the first two games.
 
As someone who beat all three games on crushing, the bullet-sponge complaint never made sense to me.

Aside from one or two classes of armored enemies, all others die with one bullet to the head.

And yes, I agree with you OP.
 

doofy102

Member
OP, what is your recommended difficulty for Uncharted 2? I usually play it on Hard, but what do you play to most enjoy the flow of the gameplay?
 
I'm with you OP, albeit I think it can still be better. The best example that showcases the pedigree of Uncharted's TPS mechanics is its horde and adventure modes, sadly absent from the remaster :(
 

Veelk

Banned
A lot of the design in Uncharted 3 runs counter to that. You get locked in an unnecessarily long melee brawl that forces you into place, for example. And enemies often spawn directly behind you, locking you into some corner of the map. I can agree insofar that Uncharted 1 and 2 do this, with 2 being far more refined at it, but 3 is very counter productive in a lot of what it does.
 
Absolutely disagree about Max Payne 3. If you want to talk about a game that has bullet sponge problems, I feel like I spent way more time trying to kill a single enemy in Max Payne 3 more than any game I can think of, not to mention the fact that the game minimalises the bullet time shenanigans that were so fun in the first two games.

That might be true but I had an incredibly fun time with the game regardless. I loved pretty much everything about it.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
I just don't see it, nor will I ever. I even tried the UC2 PS4 demo, and got nothing out of it.

I could list of plenty of complaints, but my biggest is the regen health. I never have, and never will, enjoy it in these kind of games. It kills any feeling of tension and connection from one encounter to the next. Going from Chaos Theory to Gears of War, Uncharted, or Binary Domain is a massive downgrade.

Maybe it's because I'm older now, or grew up playing DnD-based RPGs on computer, but there just isn't enough of interest going on in Uncharted (or most fully linear games) for me. It's like watching a Marvel movie; there's a few hours of vapid entertainment to be had, then it just gets mind-numbing.
 
Uncharted 2 was fantastic. The others not so much.

Purely judging the games as TPS, they pale in comparison to titles such as Max Payne 3, Vanquish and Gears of War.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
I think UC1 and UC2 are fun games, maybe perhaps overblown on what they offer. But both are solid TPS in my book. They give me just what I want enemies to shoot and in nice environments with some nice variety. However UC3 I feel kind of takes away from that, since to me UC3 is a sum of all it parts. So if one factor is lacking you start to feel it across the rest. UC3's story kind of kills the motivation in enjoying the set-pieces and encounters to me.

Regardless you could do a lot worse then playing Uncharted.
 
That might be true but I had an incredibly fun time with the game regardless. I loved pretty much everything about it.

I loved the story and the moments where you used bullet time in a cinematic way. Part of my issue was playing it on a high difficulty while borrowing the game for a weekend. Led to some serious frustration.

Edit: and the shooting actually feels pretty good, it was just asked of the player too much on whatever difficulty setting I had it on.
 
Good post, OP. Totally agree. UC is probably the most dynamic TPS out there and 4 looks set to take that aspect a lot further while improving the actual gunplay (weight, feedback, sound, animation) as well. Can't wait.
 
Sorry I just majorly disagree. I've always felt the mechanics and the bullet sponge enemies even the animations are all very mediocre.
 
Not to be dismissive, but this really reads like another post that has projected a whole lot of stuff on the game that ND never intended.

This is the first TPS series they have ever made and it shows. Waves of samey bullet spongey enemies jumping over walls every time you think you're finally done is not good design. Uncharted 2 was the biggest offender in that regard I think.

Everything about this series is absolutely fantastic except the combat, which is just passable. It wouldn't be an issue if it didn't overstay it's welcome with stupidly designed encounters.
 

Feonix

Member
I can't agree with you more OP. Haters gonna hate; Uncharted has some of my favorite 3rd person shooting mechanics in the industry. 'Waves of bullet-sponge enemies'? Are we even playing the same game?
 
I'm almost convinced that most people suck at shooting. Like honestly. Bullet spongey enemies in UC2? Aside from the armored enemies, I don't see it.
 
Can't say I agree with you op. Mostly because what your describing is standard TPS stuff.
No spin or twist on it besides the occasional set piece or some vertical levels.
 
I can't agree with you more OP. Haters gonna hate; Uncharted has some of my favorite 3rd person shooting mechanics in the industry. 'Waves of bullet-sponge enemies'? Are we even playing the same game?

Seriously? I don't think saying the game has waves of bullet spongey enemies is even subjective at this point. It can be easily proven. That's exactly what it does.

Uncharted has some of the most satisfying headshots out there I will say, because they instant kill. But if you aren't hitting the head it takes forever to kill them.
 

sn00zer

Member
I loved the story and the moments where you used bullet time in a cinematic way. Part of my issue was playing it on a high difficulty while borrowing the game for a weekend. Led to some serious frustration.

Edit: and the shooting actually feels pretty good, it was just asked of the player too much on whatever difficulty setting I had it on.

Yeah that was your problem
 
Seriously? I don't think saying the game has waves of bullet spongey enemies is even subjective at this point. It can be easily proven. That's exactly what it does.

Please, do prove it. I recently beat UC2 on Crushing. One bullet to the head killed the vast majority of enemies. I'd love to see the "spongey" enemies.
 

doofy102

Member
While I agree with you OP, I think Naughty Dog has failed to master what's good about Uncharted's gameplay up until now. The quality in Uncharted 4's demos is what should've been there earlier.
 

RobNBanks

Banned
So, you could play the game mostly as a stop-and-pop shooter despite all the efforts and advantages the game gives you to do otherwise, but that's pretty boring and would likely take a lot longer and probably be harder too. Or, you could play like it's intended and it should look something like this (2min 45sec in and on. Not only is it fun and satisfying to play, but it looks awesome too. I was too lazy to upload my own gameplay, but all the shootouts in the game can be be done as fluid as this, and the demo player didn't even make use of some of the vertical arrangements in this particular level).

That 's with god mode on because he literally takes no damage.

If the way the game was intended to be played requires you to play on the easiest difficulty then it's bad game design. Even on Normal none of that would be possible, he's getting shot the whole time taking no damage.
 
Please, do prove it. I recently beat UC2 on Crushing. One bullet to the head killed the vast majority of enemies. I'd love to see the "spongey" enemies.

See the response in my edited post. I know you can instakill with headshots. That's not what me and others are talking about.

If you aren't getting headshots they are absolutely spongey.

I like how you conveniently omitted the part of his post talking about headshots.

No, no. That is my fault. I put it in there as an edit after.
 

neurosyphilis

Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
I agree it's the best TPS I've ever played. Nothing else comes close . Naughty Dog threads usually bring out a ton of hate, but oh well it's their opinions.
 
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