TheSpaceBetween
Member
No, it doesn't. Let Uncharted be Uncharted.
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Uncharted is a legit great TPS (mechanics, encounters, level design)
- Thread starter Fancy Clown
- Start date
No, it doesn't. Let Uncharted be Uncharted.
HawksWinStanley
Member
I'd love to see the dynamic cover system from TLOU in UC4. That was fantastic being able to move in and out of cover without any kind of snap mechanic. It was effective and the transitions were seamless. The snappy cover in Uncharted has always felt a little janky.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
There really is no reason to ever do this in the games. Even still, the options to get creative aren't anything crazy. The UC games are pretty standard TPS fare stuff.
Says more about your preferred playstyle than about the game. If anything you have the option to play it however you want. Cause I definitely don't play like that. I enjoy getting around in Uncharted.
11 pages...eh..
Completely agree with the OP. The way Uncharted mixes platforming and combat is something other games just don't achieve on the same level. Perfect example: the train in Uncharted 2. The way you're able to flank and move around enemies in what is traditionally such an enclosed environment is honestly genius. Uncharted 2 has some of the best shooter set pieces this side of Resident Evil 4. The OP didn't even cover how well stealth plays into Uncharted 2 and 3. Most people don't realize you can stealth kill your way through most encounters in those games. Even after you've started a fire fight you can still break line of sight and get back to stealthing people, or do a mix to flank enemies. In 2009 Uncharted 2 hit me as a shockingly tactical game.
Relativ9
Member
As soon as you realize Uncharted is actually a platforming run-and-gun rather than a cover shooter you'll have a lot more fun with it nothing quite like zigzagging between obstacles to flank enemies you've already weakened with shotgun blasts from while running and finishing them with a melee combo.
JumpCancel
Banned
Hey Ellie, looks like this whole place is Uncharted 3.
Icyflamez96
Member
Can someone post gameplay showing off the "fun" way to play? I haven't played UC2 and 3 in a long time. I'm playing UC1 for the first time right now and I find it's hard to not play it like a cover shooter. Maybe it's cuz I suck, and i'm pretty sure I didn't play UC2 and 3 in the same way as i'm playing UC1 right now.
I find the combat fine, it's just too much of it. The waves after waves of enemies get boring for me about halfway into the games.
Also it ruins some of the immersion to explore these abandoned places and suddenly 100 enemies are there. Or you open this hidden door with a hidden puzzle obviously not recently activated and find enemies behind it, and the only other way out of there is another hidden and unused puzzle door.
Also it ruins some of the immersion to explore these abandoned places and suddenly 100 enemies are there. Or you open this hidden door with a hidden puzzle obviously not recently activated and find enemies behind it, and the only other way out of there is another hidden and unused puzzle door.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Meh, says a lot about a game if it's very simple mechanics take a lot of explaining to convey the idea of 'playing it properly'.
It's a decent game elevated by a great cast and some fantastic spectacle. The underlying gameplay mechanics are undeniably shallow, so much so that most encounters became a chore and felt like padding between the more interesting set pieces.
As a TPS game, in terms of mechanics, it doesn't come close to reaching the heights of Gears of War, Vanquish, Max Payne 3 and Resident Evil 4. The latter being the perfect example for level design and enemy encounter design elevating the core gameplay mechanics to godlike levels.
It's a decent game elevated by a great cast and some fantastic spectacle. The underlying gameplay mechanics are undeniably shallow, so much so that most encounters became a chore and felt like padding between the more interesting set pieces.
As a TPS game, in terms of mechanics, it doesn't come close to reaching the heights of Gears of War, Vanquish, Max Payne 3 and Resident Evil 4. The latter being the perfect example for level design and enemy encounter design elevating the core gameplay mechanics to godlike levels.
Fancy Clown
Member
There's a gameplay clip I posted in the OP (not my footage). I might upload a few clips of my own just from dicking around on normal difficulty. Uncharted 1 is way more of a cover shooter than 2 & 3 and there's a lot less verticality as well.
A lot less.
Keihart
Member
Yet those shallow and stripped down mechanics made the multiplayer very popular.
Why would you show yourself "dicking around" on Normal (where all sorts of inefficient careless play would pass), rather showing the game played "properly" on Crushing?
You're trying to convince them that rely on cover is the inefficient method, and so it would make sense to show that method being superior to how they're currently playing it.
Fancy Clown
Member
Because normal is the default difficulty and I saved some clips of gameplay of how I replayed through some encounters a while ago? Especially since many seem to think you can't do the type of play shown in the clip I posted in the OP on anything higher than easy.
Presumably most of the people playing it as a cover shooter and hating it played on normal and never touched it again. This shows how you can play on normal.
Also I've already mentioned in this thread multiple times that crushing is not as fun a difficulty as normal and hard are, precisicely because you can't make use of all your mechanics.
Crushing forces a different playstyle in all three games, you can't be as gung-ho and risky because you have less health. It is the opposite of the intended design and only exists because the developers wanted a difficulty harder than Hard but wasn't impossible to beat -- just a difficulty that requires more trial and error than Hard does.
You can still move around in Crushing but it's generally unwise unless you really want to die. Crushing isn't generally a good showcase of it simply because you move around much less, especially if you don't have anything better than your 92-FS or AK-47.
In other words, Crushing doesn't test you on your mobility or skill with the mechanics (other than testing for your ability to get headshots lol...) It tests you on how well you have the combat arenas memorized to avoid taking the least amount of damage possible in the safest position/area possible in the arena. That's all it does. Crushing is about avoiding as many errors as possible.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Post the shootout where you're hanging onto signs high above the street and have to reposition to take cover. Or the shootout in the tower where you have to climb up one, then climb down another. Or the one where you start out weaponless and have to get a gun/grenade through stealth and still kill an armored enemy.
Just the basic combat encounters are varied in Uncharted 2 and that doesn't even take into account the more crazy stuff, like the shootout atop the trucks that uses the normal, base gameplay and somehow works. a direct improvement on the positives to Uncharted 2 is hopefully what we're getting with 4, because damn.
Sure, but then it doesn't appear to be a very worthwhile endeavour really (although, if you already have them vids recorded, then I guess there's no effort to really be made here). But I don't think anyone's really struggling to take out all the enemies on Normal under any playstyle. I'll agree that is anyone's claiming you can't roam the battlefield on anything above normal, then they're simply wrong... but if this becomes less and less viable as the difficulty increases, then it substantiates the argument that running all over the shop mixing things up is not the most efficient use of the game's mechanics, as it becomes more likely to fail than simply staying in cover is. The thing about something like Vanquish (and Resident Evil 4) is, movement is paramount to your success, not something you just get to do in situations where you'd succeed regardless. The game should be forcing you to make your gameplay varied and satisfying... it shouldn't be something the user consciously pursues in order to inject flair, because that's something nearly all games can provide so long as you limit the level of challenge to where this experimentation won't get you killed.
I used Crushing just because I'd seen it mentioned previously as being where the action's at. I've never actually tried the difficulty myself, as it's locked initially.
Pretend I said Hard instead. Basically what I was trying to say is that the video shouldn't be of someone "dicking around". It should demonstrate why the more mobile style of play being put forward is designed to be superior to the more mundane style of play that many people are automatically adopting.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
I use alternate methods when the game is designed around it. Uncharted is designed as a chest high wall shooter through and through. Nothing wrong with that, they are still pretty good, but it isn't like the games are Vanquish or Shadow Warrior or something where you need to using all available methods to proceed or get a high score.
revolverjgw
Member
The mechanics are great but could probably be used a bit more boldly. They shine online, much more agile and dynamic than games like Gears that more or less root you to the ground. That UC4 demo at that cliff area showcased a lot of verticality so I hope they realize there's more they can do. I want more high ground, more climbing around to get an angle on enemies.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't think this game comes close to other third person shooters. I honestly have a tough time thinking of great encounters in any UC game whereas I can think of them in the Gears games, the RE games, etc.
What made UC2 fun was not its encounters but the fact that it often felt like you were playing a cut scene. Yes it's a bit more movement oriented than Gears (I think I called it "slippery" when I first played UC1) but I don't think that makes it great, just a bit different.
What made UC2 fun was not its encounters but the fact that it often felt like you were playing a cut scene. Yes it's a bit more movement oriented than Gears (I think I called it "slippery" when I first played UC1) but I don't think that makes it great, just a bit different.
Icyflamez96
Member
entremet
Member
I did not play it as one. I went full Rambo.
R_thanatos
Member
Actually there is , especially on hard and crushing.
I'd rather , try to remove ennemies from the equation in stealth ( even if i get spotted midway ) than to stay in cover and not move .. 95% of the big areas in UC2 and UC3 have weakspots you can exploit in order to move around and survive to get to better weapons, shortcut to flank ennemies or valid possibilities to avoid an ennemy grenade and so on.
Also most of the TPS at the time didn't allow you to move up in order to get around. that whole aspect change everything when you have to tackle encounters. Most of them stay on the ground with the only exception being tomb raider (2013) in specific cases only. So i disagree on the standard Tps stuff. people have used gears and max payne 3 as arguments already but none of them do that.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Eh, Call of Duty gameplay isn't exactly deep either... Also popular multiplayer.
But this thread seems to be focusing on the single player campaign design.
Fancy Clown
Member
Even on normal in the clips I have I think it's very clear how being mobile is an advantage in the encounters. I'll upload those soon and maybe some other time I'll record some gameplay on hard as well. I meant "dicking around" in the sense I was just replaying encounters for fun on the default difficulty after beating them on hard, not necessarily screwing around trying to break the game or whatever. The tactics I use are occassionaly sloppy, but I quickly gain high ground and power weapons to make it through an encounter.
Keihart
Member
On COD's defence, they made ADS and shooting through cover popular, not to mention adding the whole lodaut and perk systems. Even then, a game can be deep even if simple, look at CS. Very popular, very deep, very simple.
Edit: NVM, singleplayer went over my head in yor reply, argument still stands since when you go multiplayer all you have are the mechanics.
Ocarina_117
Banned
That's a fair point. To be honest I've had fun with multiplayer from both game series in the past, from purely gameplay perspectives.
For the campaign I was more drawn by the standout action set pieces. The train sequence of UC2 is a real standout from last gen as is UC2. UC3 however felt like a chore to play, with exception of the plane and subsequent desert sequences.
For the campaign I was more drawn by the standout action set pieces. The train sequence of UC2 is a real standout from last gen as is UC2. UC3 however felt like a chore to play, with exception of the plane and subsequent desert sequences.
Ok cool. I'm not likely to hang around this thread much, but would be interesting in seeing some of the vids anyway. I'd appreciate if you could link them in the OP when you update, as there's a good chance I'd miss the post otherwise
These don't seem like the sorts of scenarios that'd actually help tbh. These are examples of forced variation in combat (which is good), but obviously people that complain that they simply sit in cover the majority of the time have already accounted for these scenarios. Not moving to the other side of the signposts means death... not jumping to the next truck means death too, etc. So there's nothing to demonstrate in these cases as nobody could be "doing it wrong" in regards to movement, as you can't actually pass them doing it wrong.
I'd also argue that swinging from one side of a sign for cover to another side for cover is not really any more dynamic alternating between one chest-high wall and another to avoid grenades. Same with jumping to a new truck. There's no real mobility on display in those cases... and least not the sort that Fancy Clown would be looking to demonstrate.
Fancy Clown
Member
Here are the two gameplay clips I have. I'll update the OP with them. When I made these I didn't have demonstration purposes in mind, but maybe that's for the best as it's less practiced? I'm definitely sloppy at times but I think it's clear in both these clips what Uncharted does that no other TPS that I'm aware of does, and how taking advantage of the move set and level design is beneficial in combat.
These clips were played on NORMAL difficulty. I didn't record the entirety of the encounter for 3's clip unfortunately, and I cut off my embarrassing death at the end too lol.
Uncharted 2 combat
Uncharted 3 combat
I didn't choose set pieces since the best way to show off core combat is in the arena levels. If anybody wants to see more gameplay on different stages, difficulties, or even different playthroughs of the same level I'd be happy to do that at some point.
Please show me these other standard TPS games that play like this ^^
These clips were played on NORMAL difficulty. I didn't record the entirety of the encounter for 3's clip unfortunately, and I cut off my embarrassing death at the end too lol.
Uncharted 2 combat
Uncharted 3 combat
I didn't choose set pieces since the best way to show off core combat is in the arena levels. If anybody wants to see more gameplay on different stages, difficulties, or even different playthroughs of the same level I'd be happy to do that at some point.
Please show me these other standard TPS games that play like this ^^
Smutpeddler
Member
Pretty much exemplifies how terrible this series is. Thanks for the videos
Fancy Clown
Member
Interesting and well reasoned points
Spring-Loaded
Member
Neogaf: Where you argument means nothing because fuck you
Net_Wrecker
Member
These make me so excited for UC4 because they're leaning into this kind of design even harder, but now the combat looks a million times more satisfying.
March pls y u so far
Fancy Clown
Member
It's true, the combat in 4 looks absolutely insane. I'm really excited to see what they do with the end game for 4, since that's typically the weak point of the Uncharted games, but they said they specifically delayed it for the ending in part because they what they have planned is really ambitious.
QuantumZebra
Member
agreed
Fancy Clown
Member
Also, maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to remember a lot more enemies in that particular arena in 2 on hard ...do they actually remix some of the encounters in addition to adding more player damage and I just never noticed until now?
Icyflamez96
Member
Dang this is making me so excited to replay Uncharted 2 and 3.
The other guy didn't, so I'll explain why the Uncharted 2 example is the epitome of why I fucking hate Uncharted combat so much.
Look, the guy is moving around a lot, taking cover for short amounts of time, cover-firing from ledges, etc. Whoopdie doo. What I can't stand about Uncharted is all the other bullshit - he's getting shot so much which is necessary if you want to do any melee! Enemies are everywhere in completely unbalanced ways! You have to constantly press your luck and hope that there aren't even more enemies on all sides as you start punching everyone!
I didn't see any skill or strategy employed in that video. Just sheer dumb luck where, since it's on Normal, Drake is a bullet sponge in mostly unpredictable ways.
While watching that video I instinctively got (a small amount) stressed out just thinking "ugh this represents literally everything I hate about Uncharted". All I could imagine was needing to restart that segment over and over again if a grenade unexpectedly fell out of nowhere or if I got killed while trying to take someone out with melee or maybe there was a sniper who'd get a bead on me or maybe a heavily-armored dude would suddenly blast me with a shotgun and I wouldn't be able to escape in time.
I played all three Uncharted games back-to-back in the last few weeks and everything about those games is fantastic except for the combat. The combat is just so utterly terrible it nearly made me quit a few times. I've never felt like this playing Tomb Raider, or Gears of War, or any other shooter series first- or third-person.
Especially The Last of Us. I played The Last of Us immediately after. It's so unbelievably great in every single way including combat. It was such a refreshing breath of fresh air after the Uncharted series. God damn do I hope Naughty Dog puts a whole lot of Last of Us into Uncharted 4.
I always felt like every encounter in Uncharted would be a million times better if they just shaved off one wave.
I did have the most fun with 3, since the enemies are a little more aggressive at getting close to you (i guess to emphasize the expanded melee stuff) which forces more improvisation
I did have the most fun with 3, since the enemies are a little more aggressive at getting close to you (i guess to emphasize the expanded melee stuff) which forces more improvisation
UC2 is so freaking good. UC4 is going to be god tier.
Lys Skygge
Member
Those videos were fantastic! You definitely showed a lot of variety. Melee, hip firing, cover, climbing, grenade throwing, and dodging in a two minute clip!
Just watching this made me want to pick up the remastered collection right now. I'm hoping there are some good Black Friday deals though.
Icyflamez96
Member
I like how you just took out the UC3 clip lol
Fancy Clown
Member
I appreciate the response.
The thing is, it's not really luck. The sandboxes are chaotic battlefields, but Drake is so mobile and cover is so ample that you can react to almost anything, it's part of the scrappy improvisational combat that is designed to keep you on your toes. A grenade lands at your feet? They don't blow up immediately and Drake's quick enough to get away (or in 3's case, throw it back). A sniper draws a bead on you? Again they take a while before they shoot so you always have time to roll away.and armored dude appears? I mean it's the same as any enemy appearing, you just take them out. And on nor,al they give you so much health so you can be bold and take risks in combat, and you quickly learn that the games level design usually rewards you with power weapons for pushing for the high ground.
Nothing about UC3 will convince me it is a great game
. It is on the same tier as Gears and MP3 probably with slightly better encounters but worse aiming.PensivePen
Member
I don't think the level design is bad and the mechanics and encounters are generally fine. I take some issue with the limited number of enemies but that's a problem most shooters have.
Personally I just don't care for how sluggish and floaty the controls feel. I prefer very snappy, quick animations and Uncharted just doesn't have them. Someone earlier described it as feeling like "moving underwater" and I'd agree with that sentiment. That's a personal preference though and not necessarily an issue with the games.
Personally I just don't care for how sluggish and floaty the controls feel. I prefer very snappy, quick animations and Uncharted just doesn't have them. Someone earlier described it as feeling like "moving underwater" and I'd agree with that sentiment. That's a personal preference though and not necessarily an issue with the games.
Sure, and I can understand why some people would enjoy that. But specifically the main thing that sticks out to me in that video is just how much damage Drake is taking.
If you're suggesting that's the ideal way to play Uncharted, to me that implies that the ideal way of playing Uncharted requires taking a fuck-ton of damage. Which just seems awful to me. And since there are so many enemies scattered everywhere, it's pretty much impossible to complete those encounters without taking a ton of damage.
The best third-person shooters I've played reward caution, aggressiveness, and mobility in mostly equal portions. Uncharted just throws caution to the wind entirely, and what's left is aggressiveness, mobility, and sheer dumb luck with a whole lot of annoying and frustrating deaths and retries along the way.