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[Fixed2BeBroken]

I guarantee you not a single weapon takes more than 10 bullets to kill an enemy without armor.

um....that technically means bullet sponge.

and i know, all of us suck because we don't headshot everything. please post your mastery of the game so we can know how pros play....you know, headshot everything.

 

[To Far Away Times]

I agree with this. The Uncharted games are great at setpiece moments and actually giving you control in those moments you so you fee like a true action hero. The combat segments are passable but they don't do anything extraordinary. The reason the shooting feels lackluster to a lot of people is a combination of many factors like the lack of enemy variety, lack of hit reactions, enemies going into odd looking scripted animations in the middle of being shot, guys in T shirts taking many shots to go down or be interrupted, lack of weapon variety, etc.

Stuff like this just happens constantly in these games and it leaves the combat segments feeling cheap and poorly done:

A gif says a thousand words doesn't it? You see this type of stuff nearly every time you enter a combat zone in the game. For all the talk of "gameplay sandboxes" and "verticality" that make the combat sound good on paper, the game just plays and feels wrong.

I think you articulated this argument in a way that a lot of people were waiting for.

 

[Fancy Clown]

um....that technically means bullet sponge.

and i know, all of us suck because we don't headshot everything. please post your mastery of the game so we can know how pros play....you know, headshot everything.

In the videos I posted do any of the enemies look like bullet sponges?

A gif says a thousand words doesn't it? You see this type of stuff nearly every time you enter a combat zone in the game. For all the talk of "gameplay sandboxes" and "verticality" that make the combat sound good on paper, the game just plays and feels wrong.

I think you articulated this argument in a way that a lot of people were waiting for.

That's the thing about gifs, they don't articulate anything really, since you can easily cherry pick a moment from something that is totally devoid of the context that surrounds it.

First of all, yes, Uncharted 3 (from which all these gifs are from) doesn't have as good hit reactions as 2. And thats a bummer. Okay, now that that's out of the way, here is the context that surrounds what these gifs "show".

1) Poor aim. In the gifs supposedly showing clips of ammo dumped into regular goons without them reacting or dying, if you notice, the player is actually just missing almost every single shot. The enemies do react to some of the bullets that do hit them.
2) The grenade launcher gif is against a very, very, very infrequent enemy type. It's dumb that they don't even get knocked back by that the grenade in this (even though you usually get a reaction out of them when using explosives against them), but they're kind of an annoying enemy in general and you face like 3 in the whole game. One sniper shot to the head kills them though.
3) The gif of pumping KAL rounds into the armored enemy. The armored enemies in 3 don't have nearly as good visual feedback as in 2 where you see bits of plate armor breaking off and exposing skin BUT they are using a close/mid range low power weapon at long range so of course it's not going to kill the armored enemy quickly. Certain weapons are more effective against certain enemies, so the player should have either gotten close with a shotgun, focused all fire on the enemies helmet to expose his head, or used explosives or other power weapons. Or just get closer if you're going to use that gun.

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

 

[R_thanatos]

A gif says a thousand words doesn't it? You see this type of stuff nearly every time you enter a combat zone in the game. For all the talk of "gameplay sandboxes" and "verticality" that make the combat sound good on paper, the game just plays and feels wrong.

I think you articulated this argument in a way that a lot of people were waiting for.

Gifs of a poor player really hold no value here.

 

[Synth]

The level in which I died on (the ship graveyard) is one where you are without a doubt more likely to die in if you remain in cover the entire time due to the openness of the level and enemies aggressive flanking (as you can see, towards the end when I was in cover I didn't pay attention to my left and ended up getting flanked and into the water by the armored enemy).

I almost died in the clip from 2 when I got sloppy and didn't notice a new enemy got on the turret. But, had I not been mobile in that fight I would have A) not gotten the RPG to take out the turret the first time B) Not gotten grenades and ammo refill from rushing the enemies below me C) Not gotten a hight advantage on the last few enemies which allowed me to kill them at no risk to myself rather than engage them from the ground in a protracted stop and pop gunfight where I'd have to sit behind cover and let my health recharge.

I think the difference between how you see the mobility in Uncharted and how I do, is how we view the health mechanic. You see it as negative feedback, whereas I see it as a resource to be expended in a risk/reward situation. Yeah, you get a graying screen which shows you how close you are to death, but that's just a more obvious manner to show how close you are to "emptying" your health, and how close it is to recharging. Because it does recharge, it allows you to judge the risk of running into battle to take advantageous positions without any permanent cost. Recharging health is a resource to be expended, whereas if it had finite health it would be something to be conserved. So you could judge that the reward isn't great enough to risk fully depleting your health in a situation, or, as I did frequently in the videos I felt that I could expend some of my health for an advantage in the field of combat that I wouldn't have gotten by remaining stationary behind cover.

I definitely think our differing views on the health system is a factor... but I don't think the idea of it being negative reinforcement of not is really up for debate. It occurs when a negative event happens (you getting shot), to tell you that if this continues, you die, and to recover you need to stop it from happening. It's exactly the same in every game that has a regen system, whether it be Halo, Gears, CoD,, Vanquish, anything. The natural response for the player is to avoid it as a result, which is causing so many to remain in cover in comparison to games where venturing out of cover isn't so consistently met with this cue.

I'm not saying that people will never ever move from one spot (that was just an experiment I tried with UC1, as someone claimed it absolutely could not be done in any Uncharted encounter). Typically, I just pick the best seat in the house, and stay there until another seat becomes better. That other seat just doesn't tend to occur very often. In the Borneo example (as I actually have played that one).. the top of the house where you got that RL is the best spot. nobody's flanking you, you'll never be surprised by a new enemy on the turret (and the turret shooter will fire left if you sit in cover for a few seconds, letting you kill the guy with a single pistol shot), you can kill everyone from this one spot whilst being basically untouchable. You chose to jump down after firing the rocket launcher in order to combat enemies that you could have comfortably shot with a pistol from where you already were. This is what then leads to all the other surprises during the encounter. You're the random variable.

Ammo is very rarely any sort of issue btw, as playing in this fashion means pretty much no hip-fire, no blind-fire etc... and at the end of each fight you pick up absolutely everything the enemy dropped, which stocks you well to do the same again in the next fight. Every game has ammo considerations, and so this line of argument suggests that every TPS promotes a dynamic approach to combat, which is clearly not the case.

Movement is core to Uncharted too, to suggest otherwise, or imply is baloney. I don't even have to mention set pieces which are too "in your face obvious". Lets take the ever popular shipyard, or the desert, borneo etc...As for the MP side of things, I mean...wow there...

Set pieces are a given, I agree. I'm assuming the other examples (aside from Borneo) are UC3 as I don't know them. Borneo, I've just been discussing above. The introduction of the tank definitely promotes movement too, but that again is basically a set piece rather than the game's general combat. These areas are where the game shines. But they are few and far between in the second half of UC2, and almost completely absent from UC1.

I've ever played MP, and don't think it's very relevant to this discussion really. There's very few games in existence where introducing human opponents doesn't make gameplay dynamic.

Again as mentioned above, I don't believe running around in the way Fancy Clown demonstrates, does make your combat objectives easier. The only real exceptions I feel there were to this were the riot shield guys, and if a weapon (such as a sniper rifle) is placed somewhere for you to collect.. and typically in this case, it's placed somewhere well suited for actually shooting it from too.

I don't see what's "all powerful" about a melee attack that take seemingly forever, that focuses on a single enemy and leaves you planted the entire time ready to soak up damage if there's anyone else around.

It's all risk-vs-reward in pretty much any game. I'm stating that in UC1 and UC2 the risk of being mobile frequently dwarfs the reward. This thread is intended to show that Uncharted's gameplay mechanics stand as great in comparison to other examples of the genre. This should involve a lot more than standard fare, such as "you're gonna wanna pick up that weapon/ammo"

 

[Fancy Clown]

I definitely think our differing views on the health system is a factor... but I don't think the idea of it being negative reinforcement of not is really up for debate. It occurs when a negative event happens (you getting shot), to tell you that if this continues, you die, and to recover you need to stop it from happening. It's exactly the same in every game that has a regen system, whether it be Halo, Gears, CoD,, Vanquish, anything. The natural response for the player is to avoid it as a result, which is causing so many to remain in cover in comparison to games where venturing out of cover isn't so consistently met with this cue.

I'm not saying that people will never ever move from one spot (that was just an experiment I tried with UC1, as someone claimed it absolutely could not be done in any Uncharted encounter). Typically, I just pick the best seat in the house, and stay there until another seat becomes better. That other seat just doesn't tend to occur very often. In the Borneo example (as I actually have played that one).. the top of the house where you got that RL is the best spot. nobody's flanking you, you'll never be surprised by a new enemy on the turret (and the turret shooter will fire left if you sit in cover for a few seconds, letting you kill the guy with a single pistol shot), you can kill everyone from this one spot whilst being basically untouchable. You chose to jump down after firing the rocket launcher in order to combat enemies that you could have comfortably shot with a pistol from where you already were. This is what then leads to all the other surprises during the encounter. You're the random variable.

Ammo is very rarely any sort of issue btw, as playing in this fashion means pretty much no hip-fire, no blind-fire etc... and at the end of each fight you pick up absolutely everything the enemy dropped, which stocks you well to do the same again in the next fight. Every game has ammo considerations, and so this line of argument suggests that every TPS promotes a dynamic approach to combat, which is clearly not the case.

In the Souls games running out of stamina leads to a negative event (immobilizing the player leaving them open for tons of damage) but it's something that should be actively used. Or health in Bloodborne, the entire combat philosophy is to get in close and be aggressive because you can regain health. I'm not saying being shot is a good thing, but if you understand how the health system works, why not use it to your advantage when by opening yourself up to damage you can gain a better position or weapon to deal with the encounter?

RE my Uncharted 2 play through. I definitely could have stayed up there longer, but I don't think I could have killed every enemy. I chose to rush the enemies position and restock on ammo/grenades in the little den since that way I could fight them without resorting to stop and pop and taking fire from other enemies. All the guys on other sides of the pillars I probably wouldn't have been able to kill from that spot, or it wouldn't have been as easy, as climbing up to the other side of the map and get a better vantage on them. There are plenty of ways I could have beaten that encounter, including by hiding behind cover more, but I disagree that doing so would have been a more efficient method, and certainly wouldn't have been as enjoyable.

I definitely run out of ammo for weapons in Uncharted and is often a reason why I have to move out in to the open in the middle of firefights. Not every encounter mind you, but the larger scale ones typically have enough enemies where I can't just hang back behind a couple pieces of cover and kill them all with what I'm equipped with.

 

[Draft]

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

Not a valid comparison as the needler is a very unique weapon, even in Halo, while the Uncharted gifs show players using automatic rifles (or uzis if you want to be pedantic,) which make up a solid majority of the Uncharted arsenal.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Not a valid comparison as the needler is a very unique weapon, even in Halo, while the Uncharted gifs show players using automatic rifles (or uzis if you want to be pedantic,) which make up a solid majority of the Uncharted arsenal.

But you can't tell that from just the gif can you? Just as you can't tell what the uses are for the weapons in Uncharted from those gifs, where even among the automatic weapons there are quite different range/damage values.

 

[Arttemis]

The first two gifs are dead on most of the shots. There's no justification! The last shot is an enemy taking a direct grenade launcher and still standing. These are the definition of bullet sponges.

 

[Draft]

But you can't tell that from just the gif can you? Just as you can't tell what the uses are for the weapons in Uncharted from those gifs, where even among the automatic weapons there are quite different range/damage values.

That's true, but I've played a lot of Uncharted and a lot of Halo so each set of gifs has context. They are not the complete argument but I'd accept them as evidence!

 

[Lingitiz]

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

The elite popped shields which is more feedback than you can say for a lot of Uncharted enemies.

 

[Fancy Clown]

The first two gifs are dead on most of the shots. There's no justification! The last shot is an enemy taking a direct grenade launcher and still standing. These are the definition of bullet sponges.

One more time for emphasis. First gif clearly misses most of the bullets, and even then if it were extended the enemy would likely go down in another wild inaccurate spray. Second gif, hits most of the shots but against an non-standard armored enemy from range with a weak gun that is meant for neither accuracy or power. Grenade launcher gif is a combination of a fluke (they usually react to explosions) and that it's a rare ultra armored enemy that only crops up a few times and no one likes them anyway and is in no way representative of enemies in the game being bullet sponges, where a direct grenade would kill in one hit. Watch any gameplay of the game, hell watch the gameplay clips I posted in this very thread, and tell me the enemies don't go down fast.

 

[Aiustis]

It just felt repetitive to me, good but not good enough to wade through the story. I enjoyed it more when I watched it.

 

[Revven]

The first two gifs are dead on most of the shots. There's no justification! The last shot is an enemy taking a direct grenade launcher and still standing. These are the definition of bullet sponges.

First gif, no, it's not. All those shots are not dead on. Second gif, an armored guy. Armored guys exist in all shooters, they're nothing new. The guy is pumping bullets into their armor but he gets one headshot for the helmet and the enemy does react to it as the helmet flies off.

Enemies without armor not flinching is terrible but that's why no one is or has said Uncharted 3 is the pinnacle of combat in the series.... Uncharted 2 is definitively better because it has hit reactions for every enemy type -- even the guys carrying huge gatling guns stumble from explosives and stop shooting. The Brutes in UC3 (there's only two the entire game that carry PAK-80s) are stupid but they are very rare cases... they appear only two times! Hardly qualifying Uncharted 3 as a bullet spongey game let alone the entire series. Uncharted 3 is not representative of the entire series.

um....that technically means bullet sponge.

and i know, all of us suck because we don't headshot everything. please post your mastery of the game so we can know how pros play....you know, headshot everything.

No it doesn't. The reason I said 'more than 10' is because there are two edgecases where the weapon is weaker than the ones you usually get -- such as the MP40 in UC1 & UC2 and the KAL-7 in UC3. Those two specific guns take more shots than the others in the games to kill but they're not the go-tos for that reason. Most players are carrying an AK and a pistol or an M4/M9 and a Micro. In either case of those weapons, the enemies with proper aim will take less than 10 bullets to down with just body shots.

Case in point: the default pistol in all three games downs an armorless enemy in 4 bullets. 4 bullets in the body. That's not a bullet sponge and the armorless enemies are way more common than the armored ones. At some point armorless enemies in 3 may need one extra shot or two because... it's later in the game and they need to make it more challenging somehow but in the other two games the weapon damage never changes other than for the type of enemy they are (such as in UC2 where the grey camo soldiers have less health than the black camo soldiers).

Seriously you can turn on the games for yourself, pick up a pistol and shoot any armorless enemy and if you aim properly you will see they die in four shots. Then other weapons do different damage from there, such as the AK needing a few more shots than that and the M4 but the point remains the same: armorless enemies, the most common enemy type in the games, are not bullet sponges.

 

[Fancy Clown]

The elite popped shields which is more feedback than you can say for a lot of Uncharted enemies.

C'mon breh, shield pop is no more feed back than a stagger, armor breaking off, or blood splash. In fact I'd say it's more akin to the explosion radius on that heavy who gets hit by the grenade and shrugs it off.

No feedback is bs. Look, blood, stagger, grenades sending people flying, lack of bullet sponges, accuracy!

 

[Harmen]

So it is a bad thing there are frequently enemies don't die in a few shots, if you do not go for the head? I mean, I think we can all agree UC enemies can take a few, but to me they never felt like sponges and the gameplay is clearly designed around it. You need to be constantly on the move and manage the combat zone, always estimating what it takes to kill a certain enemy. Some might take some shots, hence you need to be careful in focusing on just killing a sole enemy while you are exposed.

 

[Lingitiz]

C'mon breh, shield pop is no more feed back than a stagger, armor breaking off, or blood splash. In fact I'd say it's more akin to the explosion radius on that heavy who gets hit by the grenade and shrugs it off.

No feedback is bs. Look, blood, stagger, grenades sending people flying, lack of bullet sponges, accuracy!

I think the difference is that often times shooting an enemy in Uncharted can feel like a bit of randomness when it comes to health and bullet reaction. Headshots will kill an enemy outright but other times unloading a clip from an AK into a dude and they're still standing is weird and unsatisfying. Compare that to something like Max Payne 3 where the hit reactions are all physics based and the way they stagger is relative to where they were hit. It plays satisfying and impactful, something even The Last of Us had too.

In Halo, the shield pop has always been indicative of health. Pop and enemy's shield and every knows they're "one shot" because of the like crackle effect that surrounds them. The shields flare back up and then you know the enemy is back to full health. It's why the combat plays so well. Work an enemies shields down and then switch over to precision weapon for the kill shot.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Using a grenade launcher clip doesn't really prove anything though, c'mon now. It's generally a OHK weapon and that's really not the issue with UC3. It's all of the standard pistols, SMGs, and ARs that have near nonexistent feedback in that game and it makes the shootouts feel so flat and inconsistent, which in turn forces you to search for the power weapons even more because your normal guns feel like trash and don't cause enemies to flinch.

 

[SenseiAsad]

Yeah, not even close, gameplay wise it's one of the worst third person shooters available, it focuses on the spectacle of the gameplay instead.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Uncharted 2 certainly was. I think the other two games are a bit shit in terms of how the shooting feels, though.

 

[Fjordson]

If I wasn't in the middle of pitching the EXACT OPPOSITE article to a major gaming website, I would post my reply here. As it stands, I feel I have to echo the first post: endless waves of bullet sponge enemies with poor weapon and enemy variation is not good game design.

It's one of the worst TPS series on the market.

I look forward to reading that. Always felt similarly about Uncharted. Average at best with its gameplay.

edit: just realized how big this thread is. whoa.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I think the difference is that often times shooting an enemy in Uncharted can feel like a bit of randomness when it comes to health and bullet reaction. Headshots will kill an enemy outright but other times unloading a clip from an AK into a dude and they're still standing is weird and unsatisfying. Compare that to something like Max Payne 3 where the hit reactions are all physics based and the way they stagger is relative to where they were hit. It plays satisfying and impactful, something even The Last of Us had too.

In Halo, the shield pop has always been indicative of health. Pop and enemy's shield and every knows they're "one shot." It's why the combat plays so well. Work an enemies shields down and then switch over to precision weapon for the kill shot.

I'm not denying Max Payne 3 has better hit reactions from what I've seen, I'm just saying Uncharted bad guys (in 2 at least) aren't these robot bullet sponges who just tank shots without ever flinching and have no blood. Less than half a clip of an assault rifle will down a regular enemy in Uncharted, or a handful of pistol bullets. I'm pretty sure they also hold their sides of you damage them enough but don't kill them. Armored dudes tank bullets (although even they react depending on what you're hitting them with) and they're armor breaks off like the Halo shield pop.

I have no problem with Halo btw, I only brought it in to discussion to highlight how you can make claims devoid of context by using nothing but a cherry picked gif for an argument.

Uncharted 4 seems likely to end this tired stigma though, since hit reaction and feedback in that game seems pretty spectacular.

Using a grenade launcher clip doesn't really prove anything though, c'mon now. It's generally a OHK weapon and that's really not the issue with UC3. It's all of the standard pistols, SMGs, and ARs that have near nonexistent feedback in that game and it makes the shootouts feel so flat and inconsistent, which in turn forces you to search for the power weapons even more because your normal guns feel like trash and don't cause enemies to flinch.

This was in response to the above uncharted 3 gifs where that one gif of the heavy armored dude was being used as an argument that enemies could take grenades without so much as flinching.

I agree hit reactions in 3 are a huge step down from 2 (although they are still present, albeit inconsistantly). Recoil and gun sounds, and overall arsenal are much improved though.

 

[Keihart]

OK so... im playing Uncharted 3 HD now and how come nobody metioned how bugged this is compared to the original? enemies aggro at random times, hits dont register sometimes, it's pretty bizzare, i've played Uncharted 3 several times on ps3, i've stealth almost every section of the game and wtf is this shit on the remastered....OTL. I gues i can understand since porting these games from PS3 must been hard, but still, this is not representative of the game on ps3. I'm dissapointed.

Edit: I'm on Siria now, and as soon as you enter the castle , enemies are aggroed and combat position , i can't do my freaking fliying stealth elbow?! freaking bluepoint, jeez. Even more funny, it's that the enemies dialogue response is the same, so they talk as if you are on stealth while they act as in combat. Hilarious shit, if this is how people are introduced to these games, i understand the dissapointment.

 

[SpokkX]

Yeah, not even close, gameplay wise it's one of the worst third person shooters available, it focuses on the spectacle of the gameplay instead.

Uncharted 1-3 are not good shooters imo. I would even argue that gameplay-wise they are average with basic shooting, autoclimbing and stupidly easy puzzles. The live on their personality, settings and yep, spectacle

Now uncharted 4 looks to take inspiration from the much better game, tlou. So hopefully stealth will work this time and weapons will feel better. I also hope encounters will have fewer and smarter enemies and most of all, that many encounters are skippanble by using stealth/sneaking

 

[Fancy Clown]

OK so... im playing Uncharted 3 HD now and how come nobody metioned how bugged this is compared to the original? enemies aggro at random times, hits dont register sometimes, it's pretty bizzare, i've played Uncharted 3 several times on ps3, i've stealth almost every section of the game and wtf is this shit on the remastered....OTL. I gues i can understand since porting these games from PS3 must been hard, but still, this is not representative of the game on ps3. I'm dissapointed.

It's actually a lot less buggy than I remember it being on PS3, and the aiming is better. Other than that I didn't notice any differences?

 

[Revven]

Alright I've thrown up an Uncharted 3 clip where I purposefully messed up stealth to activate the enemy waves in the area and used the mobility I could with the weapons I had. It's also on Normal iirc.

Here

As I said before though, UC3 isn't the greatest example but it does have some good combat sandboxes where if you do get into a rhythm it can turn out spectacular as seen above. Of course, I had a shotgun but most of the time in UC3 you're going to be carrying some kind of power weapon in the latter half of the game anyway (which is where this takes place).

I'm going to try and get some UC2 stuff later in the week if this thread is still active. I have another UC3 clip I could upload of the infamous cruise ship arena if anyone wants to see that though it's definitely... more focused on moving in one small section of the arena rather than moving forward progressively -- I still move around in it a lot to survive. I'll probably upload it anyway.

 

[jett]

A gif says a thousand words doesn't it? You see this type of stuff nearly every time you enter a combat zone in the game. For all the talk of "gameplay sandboxes" and "verticality" that make the combat sound good on paper, the game just plays and feels wrong.

I think you articulated this argument in a way that a lot of people were waiting for.

The verticality during combat aspect really comes out in multiplayer.

Rather than poor hit reactions, what those GIFs really reminded me is of how so many sequences in Uncharted 3 pretty much boil down to you being pinned down and left without many options. But that's really the nature of most "cover shooters." Thankfully, based on the PSX footage, UC4 is changing things up, really, it's taking a page out of TLOU, with how that game offered much more movement options and areas to run off to when you're feeling the pressure.

 

[Gundy2010]

Pess A/X to take cover TPS system feels really dated nowadays.

A more natural and fluid cover system that promotes movement would benefit UC alot. I'm thinking TLOU and Tomb Raiders

 

[Keihart]

It's actually a lot less buggy than I remember it being on PS3, and the aiming is better. Other than that I didn't notice any differences?

Duuuuude, no freaking way. I know levels almost left and right, and i know my way around most levels to stealth them, this is hilariously broken. It's jarring because i remeber every encounter, just how i still remember almost every room of MGS 2. I don't have a captuure card to record and compare with ps3, but daaamn.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Duuuuude, no freaking way. I know levels almost left and right, and i know my way around most levels to stealth them, this is hilariously broken. It's jarring because i remeber every encounter, just how i still remember almost every room of MGS 2. I don't have a captuure card to record and compare with ps3, but daaamn.

Always felt like a sloppy, inconsistent game to me. Maybe you're just a smarter, more experienced and world traveled person now.

You've grown, Keihart. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[Synth]

In the Souls games running out of stamina leads to a negative event (immobilizing the player leaving them open for tons of damage) but it's something that should be actively used. Or health in Bloodborne, the entire combat philosophy is to get in close and be aggressive because you can regain health. I'm not saying being shot is a good thing, but if you understand how the health system works, why not use it to your advantage when by opening yourself up to damage you can gain a better position or weapon to deal with the encounter?

RE my Uncharted 2 play through. I definitely could have stayed up there longer, but I don't think I could have killed every enemy. I chose to rush the enemies position and restock on ammo/grenades in the little den since that way I could fight them without resorting to stop and pop and taking fire from other enemies. All the guys on other sides of the pillars I probably wouldn't have been able to kill from that spot, or it wouldn't have been as easy, as climbing up to the other side of the map and get a better vantage on them. There are plenty of ways I could have beaten that encounter, including by hiding behind cover more, but I disagree that doing so would have been a more efficient method, and certainly wouldn't have been as enjoyable.

I definitely run out of ammo for weapons in Uncharted and is often a reason why I have to move out in to the open in the middle of firefights. Not every encounter mind you, but the larger scale ones typically have enough enemies where I can't just hang back behind a couple pieces of cover and kill them all with what I'm equipped with.

Assuming you killed the enemies inside the house before you climbed on it (and possibly even if you hadn't, I dunno), you can kill everyone else from that spot, because that's how I did it. Turret guy repeatedly fires left when he can't see you, so you don't even need a rocket launcher to kill him. You can clearly see other enemies slowly make their way up to the turret to take over, and can simply pop them with a pistol as they attempt to reach it (or just let them fire left too). Everyone else in every area can be shot from this position, and they can't do fuck all to you. If there's an easier way, then I'm not aware of it (which I guess makes sense seeing as I've played the game through once), but it's certainly not reminiscent of what you chose to do instead.

I haven't played Dark Souls either, but getting fatigued (in other games I have played at least), is like having your gun overheat in Halo and require a cooldown. Yes, you're expected to use your gun, but the negative feedback comes once you use it in a fashion that should be avoided (past a breaking point). Uncharted is giving you the negative feedback the moment you start getting shot... because it's already a negative at that point, even if you can create a positive situation from it. This can be said about absolutely every game with regenerating health ever to exist (and even those without to an extent). This isn't something special for Uncharted, and as such people tend to respond to it the same way they would every other game that functions similarly.

As for the ammo stuff.. I dunno. I was on Normal too... maybe I'm just shooting less per enemy. Either way, running out of ammo, and going to pick some up is the realm of every third person shooter ever.

Uncharted does give you the tools to do things differently than other games... but so do other games... it's what makes them all different (Gears is slightly different, as it's pretty much the vanilla template for the genre as it is today). However amongst similar games in a genre, most share very similar successful approaches, and I don't think the things Uncharted brings to the table are integrated into the general gameplay in a way that causes the player to naturally deviate from the standard approach. Something which I'd say Vanquish does.

 

[GnawtyDog]

But you can't tell that from just the gif can you? Just as you can't tell what the uses are for the weapons in Uncharted from those gifs, where even among the automatic weapons there are quite different range/damage values.

The AK has high recoil. Couple that with a sensitive thumb and you end up with that example there. The poor implementation here is not recoil, or failure of the hitbox register. It's more so the crosshair that usually misleads. The FAL for example doesn't behave that way. It's a perfect sharp contrast in the same game of how different crosshairs affect perceived recoil and hit register (it also happens to have less recoil). I think for the AK, in a game like Uncharted in which weapons are given high recoil, the crosshair should be something like this without the circle around it.

Or this.

The circle design however does help hip-fire much more than the crosshairs presented above. So I can see why they decided on such crosshair. The question is why did they make recoil so noticeably high? The greater the distance, if not aiming down sights, the worse.

Any seasoned Uncharted player knows that if you're going to shoot in the distance with the AK, accuracy is a premium, thus full auto is a NO NO. You see seasoned players that know this in MP. If you want accuracy with the AK at a distance, burst fire is your best friend. Accuracy at full auto is practically uncontrollable (even at medium range) to the point where you'll probably register if you know what you're doing but you'll lose a lot of bullets in the process.

 

[Keihart]

Always felt like a sloppy, inconsistent game to me. Maybe you're just a smarter, more experienced and world traveled person now.

You've grown, Keihart. It's a beautiful thing.

Hahaha, i mean , yeah , hit reactions were always inconsistent, but enemies starting in combat when they are scripted to be unaware of your prescence or simply not diying from headshots didn't used to happen.

2 Jarring examples i just went trough, in the chateau before talbot goons burn the building , enemies should be unaware of you until you see the first guy torching the place, but instead freaking sully started to exchange shots with a random goon before that, and the other dude, since was scripted to light the fire, just continued his relaxed animationj puring gasoline and all. I couldn't believe it.

The other example is when you enter Siria castle, that first encounter was supposed to be started with stealth, you were given the chance to use the droping from above move , wich gives you a square prompt when you are looking down an unaware enemy, instead, the unaware dialogue was there but the enemies were already moving like headless chickes as soon as you enter.

The game wasn't like that, i'm not puting rose glasses, this are obvious bugs, wich i never encounter in my multiples playthroughs.

In crushing i used to rely a lot on stealth and melee, so this is a bummer.

 

[KingJ2002]

I disagree OP... while i don't think it's one of the worst... i definitely can not say it's one of the best either.

- The cover system isn't as fluid or responsive as Gears of War. There has been plenty of times i found myself out of cover trying to manuever "in cover" which leads to very frustrating situations

- The selection of weaponry is bland with many of them having no benefits. I'd honestly prefer it if they kept the selection of guns down and instead had more interactive environments to reach enemies in different locations.

there's others but i think other posters covered them well enough. Overall games such as Gears of War and Max Payne will be the games that set the bar high for me as far as TPS combat.

Uncharted still has a ways to go... which hopefully uncharted 4 makes up for.

 

[Revven]

The other example is when you enter Siria castle, that first encounter was supposed to be started with stealth, you were given the chance to use the droping from above move , wich gives you a square prompt when you are looking down an unaware enemy, instead, the unaware dialogue was there but the enemies were already moving like headless chickes as soon as you enter.

The game wasn't like that, i'm not puting rose glasses, this are obvious bugs, wich i never encounter in my multiples playthroughs.

In crushing i used to rely a lot on stealth and melee, so this is a bummer.

You can still stealth that part it's weird, though.

You can also still stealth the other parts of Syria as you could on PS3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQBiQByXM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pTq_WAw7w

But yeah everything else is the same as PS3, those two sections work the same for sure.

 

[Keihart]

You can still stealth that part it's weird, though.

You can also still stealth the other parts of Syria as you could on PS3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQBiQByXM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pTq_WAw7w

But yeah everything else is the same as PS3, those two sections work the same for sure.

wow thanks for the validation so i can rest that i'm not crazy, super akward tho, what are they taking cover from?!
Edit: Pro-tip, when you clear with stealth some sections, you avoid the second wave of enemies.

 

[Revven]

wow thanks for the validation so i can rest that i'm not crazy, super akward tho, what are they taking cover from?!

Yeah I dunno, I noticed it to be a bit odd as well when I went through it a second time on PS4 where they were actually alerted... but then a third time for that part I was able to stealth it like the video again so I don't exactly know what's going on there in that part of Syria.

But this is a bit OT (off topic) lol.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

The shield pops and the gif cuts off before the spilkes blow up to kill or hurt him pretty bad. I barely even play halo and I know that. I also barely play Uncharted and know about the jank and the things that are happening in the gifs. It's a trip back to early PS3/360, a dark, slow time for console gaming, imo.

 

[Keihart]

Yeah I dunno, I noticed it to be a bit odd as well when I went through it a second time on PS4 where they were actually alerted... but then a third time for that part I was able to stealth it like the video again so I don't exactly know what's going on there in that part of Syria.

But this is a bit OT (off topic) lol.

Last thing, in that first video, at the end there are 2 goons coming from the building, you can kill them both with a grenade to avoid alert. In the airport before the plane chase you can do the same with the last 2 to avoid the second wave of enemies.

 

[Spinluck]

I think the difference is that often times shooting an enemy in Uncharted can feel like a bit of randomness when it comes to health and bullet reaction. Headshots will kill an enemy outright but other times unloading a clip from an AK into a dude and they're still standing is weird and unsatisfying. Compare that to something like Max Payne 3 where the hit reactions are all physics based and the way they stagger is relative to where they were hit. It plays satisfying and impactful, something even The Last of Us had too.

In Halo, the shield pop has always been indicative of health. Pop and enemy's shield and every knows they're "one shot" because of the like crackle effect that surrounds them. The shields flare back up and then you know the enemy is back to full health. It's why the combat plays so well. Work an enemies shields down and then switch over to precision weapon for the kill shot.

Using a grenade launcher clip doesn't really prove anything though, c'mon now. It's generally a OHK weapon and that's really not the issue with UC3. It's all of the standard pistols, SMGs, and ARs that have near nonexistent feedback in that game and it makes the shootouts feel so flat and inconsistent, which in turn forces you to search for the power weapons even more because your normal guns feel like trash and don't cause enemies to flinch.

These post nail it for me.

 

[Keihart]

These post nail it for me.

I agree with this too, but still then i find the gameplay great \_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Raonak]

Uncharted's combat really shines when traversal and verticality are thrown into the mix.

thats why the train and shipyard are such great combat sections.

 

[Fancy Clown]

The shield pops and the gif cuts off before the spilkes blow up to kill or hurt him pretty bad. I barely even play halo and I know that. I also barely play Uncharted and know about the jank and the things that are happening in the gifs. It's a trip back to early PS3/360, a dark, slow time for console gaming, imo.

Missed the point entirely of why I posted that gif

 

[IncognitoPanda]

Not wanting to sway you or saying that any one of our opinions matters more, I have to disagree with you. The mix of movement, melee, shooting and scripts are definitely impressive, but I ultimately think they bite more than they can chew.

I find the movement awkward and floaty to the point where I fins it hard to judge the outcome. Melee is ok, but I feel the shooting has no impact. It feels so superficial in a way, and just not satisfying at all. The enemy encoukters also lack a bit variety, imo, even if thats the least of its problems.

I'm saying this as someone who loves the franchise, and think it deserves its praise, but who is also coming from 360 with Gears of War. UC is great, not because it is flawless, but because for the most part, the good things more than make up for the bad.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

In the videos I posted do any of the enemies look like bullet sponges?

when you have a weapon that is in game designed to be a one hit kill weapon....then of course not.

But you aren't given a desert eagle for the whole game. also, i fucking own the games, i dont need some video to prove anything to me.

smh.

lastly, your videos are besides the point of the fact that, what he said, technically means bullet sponge. that's just a fact. What he said, is an example of what a bullet sponge is.

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

LOL!!!!

ARE YOU REALLY USING THE NEEDLER AS AN EXAMPLE?! a weapon that the impact of the weapon isn't felt until the needles explode....which your gif clearly doesn't show cause it stops before the explosion happens....PUHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Fancy Clown]

when you have a weapon that is in game designed to be a one hit kill weapon....then of course not.

But you aren't given a desert eagle for the whole game. also, i fucking own the games, i dont need some video to prove anything to me.

smh.

lastly, your videos are besides the point of the fact that, what he said, technically means bullet sponge. that's just a fact. What he said, is an example of what a bullet sponge is.



LOL!!!!

ARE YOU REALLY USING THE NEEDLER AS AN EXAMPLE?! a weapon that the impact of the weapon isn't felt until the needles explode....which your gif clearly doesn't show cause it stops before the explosion happens....PUHAHAHAHAHA

I didn't use a one hit kill weapon in the Uncharted 2 clip. The complaint against the game is that all the enemies are bullet sponges, which is untrue. There are armored heavy enemies, a commone enemy type in most games.

As for the halo gif read why I posted it. I was not complaining about Halo. It's almost as if it's a misleading cherry picked gif to make a point about misleading cherry picked gifs as arguments, which you would know if you have used your capabilities as a literate individual instead of jumping on me to try and make me look like an idiot. LOL!!

 

[Zeuanimals]

Havent played Max Payne 3 but it looks awesome. I like Gears of War a lot, it has solid mechanics and lots of interesting enemy types. But punch for punch I think Uncharted has better designed encounters and arenas, and I prefer the mobility and verticality. I also think the cover system is wayyy better, I can't count the times I've gotten caught on cover in GOW when I'm trying run away from some enemy.

Played UC1 for the first time (played UC2 and 3 a few years ago) through the collection and it has the same issue when rolling. If you're rolling forward and there's cover to the side, instead of rolling, you might stick to cover. It was really annoying, unsure of if UC2/3 fixed this as, again, I haven't played them recently.

And yeah, I prefer the mobility of UC. Gears has some of the most solid shooting mechanics though and while the mobility isn't as varied (nor should it have to be), you are rewarded for rushing enemies and getting up close and personal. I just really wished the level design was better crafted as they really are made for plain old cover shooting (which at the time was fairly new).

 

[Ralemont]

I always found the combat competent, but nothing special. Having said that, what a well-articulated and laid out OP, contrasted with such a terrible first post.

 

[Game4life]

when you have a weapon that is in game designed to be a one hit kill weapon....then of course not.

But you aren't given a desert eagle for the whole game. also, i fucking own the games, i dont need some video to prove anything to me.

smh.

lastly, your videos are besides the point of the fact that, what he said, technically means bullet sponge. that's just a fact. What he said, is an example of what a bullet sponge is.



LOL!!!!

ARE YOU REALLY USING THE NEEDLER AS AN EXAMPLE?! a weapon that the impact of the weapon isn't felt until the needles explode....which your gif clearly doesn't show cause it stops before the explosion happens....PUHAHAHAHAHA

He is not using a one hit weapon. Have you even played the game or watched the video? smh

Havent played Max Payne 3 but it looks awesome. I like Gears of War a lot, it has solid mechanics and lots of interesting enemy types. But punch for punch I think Uncharted has better designed encounters and arenas, and I prefer the mobility and verticality. I also think the cover system is wayyy better, I can't count the times I've gotten caught on cover in GOW when I'm trying run away from some enemy.

Max Payne 3 has good hit detection but has the same poor level and encounter design like Gears.

 

[MORT1S]

It's like me using this random Halo gif to justify it being a bad game. Look how much ammo the player pumps into that enemy and they don't flinch or anything!

Your GIF is capped from the Multiplayer PvP component of Halo Reach... Not really a like comparison.