dragonelite
Member
Im very curious as to how fast these work when using the JPEG or LZ compression.
It is not mentioned in the document anywhere and we know it is not at the peak rate.
nvm..
Im very curious as to how fast these work when using the JPEG or LZ compression.
It is not mentioned in the document anywhere and we know it is not at the peak rate.
No. It's like being able to transfer data from your main memory on PC to your GPU memory without using up CPU or GPU time. And while transparently doing some compression/decompression. Useful, but by no means groundbreaking.
And entirely unnecessary in a true UMA system such as Orbis.
These don't sound like they are adding any kind of computational power to the hardware.
But they do seem to eliminate bandwidth bottlenecks.
Thanks for the clarification. Still not a bad system, but it seems like more work arounds to deal with hardware limitations. I wonder why MS went with this instead of trying something a little more straight forward. Longer buildup till it reaches its graphical plateau?
Depends on a lot things the JPEG compression isnt going to do much unless your completely starved for bandwidth, i put the peak or near peak rate for it in post at the top of the page.
Im very curious as to how fast these work when using the JPEG or LZ compression.
It is not mentioned in the document anywhere and we know it is not at the peak rate.
EDIT :.
Scrap that found them.
bla bla bla bla
But in the end, even in that idealized scenario, you are still using more memory bandwidth than Orbis, which simply reads only the parts of the texture it needs from its one memory pool.
So is that good or not? :/
Mostly because the wanted to use 8gb of RAM without breaking the bank for gddr5.
Here’s where I have to pause and note an eyebrow-raising claim for the next-generation Xbox. According to leaked specs, the console will offer 8GB of RAM and 68GB/s of memory bandwidth. To put that in perspective, Intel’s Sandy Bridge-E processors, with quad-channel memory support, only offer up to 51.2GB/s of bandwidth using DDR3-1600. The only way to hit 68GB/s is to use a quad-channel memory controller and DDR3-2133. Is that technically possible? Absolutely. But given that console manufacturers are reportedly pursuing $399 and $499 SKUs for launch, it’s a surprisingly aggressive target.
Isn't more like this gen's memexport?So these are gonna be this gen's SPE's eh?
Really? So no "magic" custom chips that make lowly gfx cards perform miracles? How utterly surprising.
Peak performance numbers are always theoretical and seldom hit...Has anybody addressed the claim that the extreme-tech guy layed down about it being unlikely that Durango could hit even 68GB/s with its DDR3?
Seems like the first thing on the spec sheet was 8GB of affordable RAM and then the rest is a attempt get acceptable performance out of it.
Let's hope MS's tools live up to expectations because this is looking like a console that will take special developer effort.
edit: what's the last part about GPU time slicing, is that normal? So the GPU is not always available to the game? Doesn't sound good.
Not that I am in the camp of those that believe these specs are the real deal and set in stone. However even with these specs I will give Microsoft some leeway since they are IMO the best company when it comes to offering developer tools and know how. They bend over backwards in regards to providing every nook and cranny documented to developers.
Peak performance numbers are always theoretical and seldom hit...
I know that. He's saying the theo peak is probably lower.
oh I forgot the dots.....
Has anybody addressed the claim that the extreme-tech guy layed down about it being unlikely that Durango could hit even 68GB/s with its DDR3?
He's not saying it's unlikely. He is saying the strategy is aggressive where it comes to manufacturing etc..
Peak performance numbers are always theoretical and seldom hit...
So in layman terms is this the jizz or not?
They've always had better toolsets, but if the PS4 rumors are true for native OpenGL, then it's game, set, and match for Sony.
They've always had better toolsets, but if the PS4 rumors are true for native OpenGL, then it's game, set, and match for Sony.
Quad channel would be very aggressive.
They've always had better toolsets, but if the PS4 rumors are true for native OpenGL, then it's game, set, and match for Sony.
The data sheet at vgleaks says they are 68gb/s, which would imply 2133. He is saying he is simply surprised by the choice since it is not common, simple as that.
He's not saying it's unlikely. He is saying the strategy is aggressive where it comes to manufacturing etc..
Quad channel would be very aggressive.
Not really if all the memory is put on the same packaging as the main chip.Quad channel would be very aggressive.
No, he's saying that the 720 would require both 2133 and a quad-channel controller to reach 68GB/s. Which would be aggressive considering they are aiming at a $350-$450 range.
Whats the DBZ power of these?
What did Sony win?
Not really if all the memory is put on the same packaging as the main chip.
Direct3D >>>>>>>>>> OpenGL when it comes to documentation, and how used developers are to using it.
Not really if all the memory is put on the same packaging as the main chip.
Isn't that what I just said? Sorry if I didn't come across as such.
No. In layman's terms it's basically this (according to my interpretation):
You're moving to a new house, packing up everything you own and making a few trips to the new place to get it all moved.
With the PS4's solution, DDR5, you basically have a box truck that drives 70 mph everywhere all the time and can hold 4,000 pounds of your shit in a trip. When you get to your destination you need to unpack all of this shit too, at 1.8 tons an hour.
With the Xbox 360 you have a big box truck that can carry 8,000 pounds of your shit but it only drives at 28 mph. You also have a car that can carry 320 pounds of your shit and can drive at 41 mph. Once you get to your destination you have to unpack all your shit at only 1.2 tons an hour, but thankfully when you go to unpack your shit is already being sorted for you by a friend outside, helping to organize how you're receiving the stuff you unpack inside.
The Move Engines are that friend. They aren't going to do any of the unpacking (read: processing). They aren't going to carry any of your shit to the new place (read: memory). They just make everything run more smoothly, helping to reduce snags and bottlenecks.
If you were very diligent in how you packed either box truck you reduce the need for such a friend, but it's sure nice to have them no matter what. Chances are the PS4 will have some level of this same concept as well, though likely not to the same extent that MS is incorporating, since MS needs some way to get over the DDR3 bottleneck.
I'd say it's a further complication resulting from MS wanting 8 GB of memory and therefore going with clearly too slow DDR3. Move Engines, ESRam, etc. are all attempts to patch over that deficiency. This is also likely why MS is running them pre-programmed, because making developers have to manage this to avoid a bottleneck the PS4 doesn't have would be a pain in the ass.
Looks like the DMA units we expected. No more, no less.
Only thing that seems slightly odd is that they can't saturate the system's bandwidth, although I guess the idea is to use them for some copying around of data but not all.
Non-proprietary > proprietary. Especially since AMD is all for open-source projects.
No. In layman's terms it's basically this (according to my interpretation):
You're moving to a new house, packing up everything you own and making a few trips to the new place to get it all moved.
With the PS4's solution, DDR5, you basically have a box truck that drives 70 mph everywhere all the time and can hold 4,000 pounds of your shit in a trip. When you get to your destination you need to unpack all of this shit too, at 1.8 tons an hour.
With the Xbox 360 you have a big box truck that can carry 8,000 pounds of your shit but it only drives at 28 mph. You also have a car that can carry 320 pounds of your shit and can drive at 41 mph. Once you get to your destination you have to unpack all your shit at only 1.2 tons an hour, but thankfully when you go to unpack your shit is already being sorted for you by a friend outside, helping to organize how you're receiving the stuff you unpack inside.
The Move Engines are that friend. They aren't going to do any of the unpacking (read: processing). They aren't going to carry any of your shit to the new place (read: memory). They just make everything run more smoothly, helping to reduce snags and bottlenecks.
If you were very diligent in how you packed either box truck you reduce the need for such a friend, but it's sure nice to have them no matter what. Chances are the PS4 will have some level of this same concept as well, though likely not to the same extent that MS is incorporating, since MS needs some way to get over the DDR3 bottleneck.
I'd say it's a further complication resulting from MS wanting 8 GB of memory and therefore going with clearly too slow DDR3. Move Engines, ESRam, etc. are all attempts to patch over that deficiency. This is also likely why MS is running them pre-programmed, because making developers have to manage this to avoid a bottleneck the PS4 doesn't have would be a pain in the ass.
I still have some difficulties to combine this (completely believable IMHO) reasoning with the rumor that MS raised the specs after complaints by devs. The initial idea was to use 4 GB of DDR3? An even more underpowered GPU? What happened to MS in the last 10 years? edit: maybe more like 5 yearsSeems like the first thing on the spec sheet was 8GB of affordable RAM and then the rest is a attempt get acceptable performance out of it.
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Being highly sceptical about this fixed HW, I only can find a logic to this being a free Kinnect handler.
JPEG is nothing you will use in your game engine. No alpha, too many artifacts, there are better and native formats out there with better compression rates.
IMHO can be the way to add Kinnect without affect system performance.
May it be?
They'll both be SoCs I reckon. It's just Sony makes hardware, you know? Big territorial advantage.