Arrogant Menace
Banned
10-15% is realistic anything over is overclocked. It may be set at 1.6 for a reason
Cerny was specifically talking about the gpu.
If it is running at 2ghz then the system has at least 2tflops. It would have been said in the conference instead of "nearly".
I get 128 GFLOPS, so a 20% boost?
Just 128, it's only 25% more.
Actually doing the math, according the above equation(8x2x8) you get 128 GFLOPs. So the clock increase only adds 26gflops, which would STILL put it just under 2tflops of performance. I thought t be more than this too.
ok thanks & what's the formula getting these numbers I just made a random guess.
2.0/1.8 = 1.111
11%
1.11*102.4 = 113.8
CPU: 8 (single precision ops 4 ADD + 4 MUL) * 1.6 GHz (Clock) * 8 (Cores) = 102.4 Gigaflops.
This one, mate. You just change the clock from 1.6 to 2.
128 GFlops then.
Actually not much difference in real world performance terms.
A lot of PS3 games came with bonus content on disc. Like Medal of Honor including HD Frontlines.That poster got it wrong, it's content, not quality. But still not far-fetched.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112562-Microsoft-Doesnt-Want-Sonys-Sloppy-Seconds
so if it's 2.0 GHz we are looking at about 160 GFLOPS for the CPU?
I get 128 GFLOPS, so a 20% boost?
Just 128, it's only 25% more.
Talk about western education... Luckily there's guy from 'backwards' Poland to save you
It's a weaker core but there's uncommon large number of them. The idea is that they'd finally be used fully, as opposed to using just a single or two cores of something ike i5 or i7 like majority of games seem to do now. What's the flop rate of an i5 or i7 anyway?Why would I need to do that? It's an off-shoot of a mobile line of CPUs, it's not even comparable to your usual 2013 desktop CPU, let alone the high-end ones (which one would describe as 'beasts').
Ooooooh! SO thats one of the reasons the GPU number is always so much higher!! It's not apples to apples... what does double precision and single precision actually mean?
Stop the Presses!
if they increased the CPU clock speed wouldn't they have to increase the GPU clock speed too?
Physics (as in game physics, which is what I think we're talking about here) are mostly single precision as well. The reason you see more of it on GPUs doesn't really have to do with double or single, and more with the increased programmability and flexibility of GPUs in general.Up until recently (maybe...a decade ago?) CPU's have exclusively done Double precision while GPU's were only capable of single precision calculations. Now that we have GPGPU's and things like CUDA, we can now do things like physics (double precision) on GPU's. They used to have to be done on CPU's... that's why this gen you see more focus on a beefier GPU instead of CPU.
Physics (as in game physics, which is what I think we're talking about here) are mostly single precision as well. The reason you see more of it on GPUs doesn't really have to do with double or single, and more with the increased programmability and flexibility of GPUs in general.
Talk about western education... Luckily there's guy from 'backwards' Poland to save you
Flop rates aren't everything, otherwise no one would need a CPU. But to answer your question, a desktop quad-core i5 does about 220 GFlops. More importantly, it absolutely and decisively kills Jaguar (and, to be fair, pretty much every other processor microarchitecture out there) in things like ILP, single-threaded performance or branch prediction.It's a weaker core but there's uncommon large number of them. The idea is that they'd finally be used fully, as opposed to using just a single or two cores of something ike i5 or i7 like majority of games seem to do now. What's the flop rate of an i5 or i7 anyway?
Flop rates aren't everything, otherwise no one would need a CPU. But to answer your question, a desktop quad-core i5 does about 220 GFlops. More importantly, it absolutely and decisively kills Jaguar (and, to be fair, pretty much every other processor microarchitecture out there) in things like ILP, single-threaded performance or branch prediction.
Ooooooh! SO thats one of the reasons the GPU number is always so much higher!! It's not apples to apples... what does double precision and single precision actually mean?
128 GFlops then.
Actually not much difference in real world performance terms.
Not sure I'd like to play a game of poker with Sony, underclocking the cpu for the dev kits, and keeping the large bump in ram secret. Those cards up the sleeve!
Flop rates aren't everything, otherwise no one would need a CPU. But to answer your question, a desktop quad-core i5 does about 220 GFlops. More importantly, it absolutely and decisively kills Jaguar (and, to be fair, pretty much every other processor microarchitecture out there) in things like ILP, single-threaded performance or branch prediction.
Yes, they play a dirty game indeed! LOL
Honeslty though, if this was their stragey they would of wanted to announced their system after MS.
25% is still a signifigant amount. Dont look at the numbers, I guess since CPU's are measured in douible precision the flops read much lower but are more precise. It will definitely help the CPU performance.
I'm really not trying to rub this in any Xbox fans faces, but I wanted to point this out. If the rumors are true that the Durango's CPU has around ~200flops by uprgarding the VMX units(and they also didn't get a clock upgrade), this makes the CPU power difference more insignifigant. Your looking at a 25% increases over PS4 CPU, when you account for the fact Durango is reserving two cores, or 50flops for the OS. 25% is still signifigant(as I pointed out up above), but compared to 100%, not so much...combind this with the fact PS4 has a much more powerful GPU enhanced for compute. This is all assuming that the 2ghz clock upgrade is legit too.
Yes, they play a dirty game indeed! LOL
Honeslty though, if this was their stragey they would of wanted to announced their system after MS.
Where do you get those numbers? I'm confused now:
http://download.intel.com/support/processors/corei5/sb/core_i5-3500_d.pdf
Also, are we talking about DP or SP FLOPS comparison between PS4 CPU and i5 (102.4 vs xxx)?
You really should not believe these clock increase rumors. These consoles are designed with a cooling system in mind, which has been tested at a particular clock speed. If anything, clock speed get downgraded mostly. But if you believe that they can increase the clock speed then the same can be said for durango too right? The rumor is that durango has double the cpu FLOPS of the ps4. Their respective clock speed wasn't stated. Besides, the durango isn't officially announced yet, and the specs we know are around a year old.
I don't remember anyone saying that it was "double the cpu FLOPS of the ps4" the rumor was that it was 2 double the flops compared to a normal Jaguar CPU.
You really should not believe these clock increase rumors. These consoles are designed with a cooling system in mind, which has been tested at a particular clock speed. If anything, clock speed get downgraded mostly. But if you believe that they can increase the clock speed then the same can be said for durango too right? The rumor is that durango has double the cpu FLOPS of the ps4. Their respective clock speed wasn't stated. Besides, the durango isn't officially announced yet, and the specs we know are around a year old.
You really should not believe these clock increase rumors. These consoles are designed with a cooling system in mind, which has been tested at a particular clock speed. If anything, clock speed get downgraded mostly. But if you believe that they can increase the clock speed then the same can be said for durango too right? The rumor is that durango has double the cpu FLOPS of the ps4. Their respective clock speed wasn't stated. Besides, the durango isn't officially announced yet, and the specs we know are around a year old.
Single-chip custom processor
CPU : x86-64 AMD Jaguar, 8 cores
GPU : 1.84 TFLOPS, AMD next-generation Radeon based graphics engine
I love the bias in this post. Being sceptical of one rumour based on certainty of another.
You really should not believe these clock increase rumors. These consoles are designed with a cooling system in mind, which has been tested at a particular clock speed. If anything, clock speed get downgraded mostly. But if you believe that they can increase the clock speed then the same can be said for durango too right? The rumor is that durango has double the cpu FLOPS of the ps4. Their respective clock speed wasn't stated. Besides, the durango isn't officially announced yet, and the specs we know are around a year old.
except someone on beyond3d already suggested there was an increase to the clock numbers. Not saying its fact, but its worth looking at. There looks like there some sort of credence to it.
edit: Yes Durango's clock speed could easily be upgraded, but it seems like they went a different route(better route) and doubled the VMX units. Which also somewhat confirms the theory that there reserving a good portion of the CPU processing power for the OS. MS architecture and stragey is all logically backed up eachother(being that its more of an entertainment machine, then just a gaming machine).
Exactly. Even more specifically, I believe the rumor was that what they did was double the VMX units, which was something they did with 360(probably when they realized that PS3's CPU was going to be a processing beast?).
So the 8 Jaguar cores are not as weak as people are trying to make them out to be?
VMX does not exist in x86, they would be looking at AVX units.
You try and keep the GPU and CPU in sync. So if the 800mhz GCN 12 CU Durango GPU is correct, the CPU should be 1.6Ghz, because its a clean double multiple of the GPU clock speed.
lol. I noticed that too. Some people don't realize how transparent they come across.
You try and keep the GPU and CPU in sync. So if the 800mhz GCN 12 CU Durango GPU is correct, the CPU should be 1.6Ghz, because its a clean double multiple of the GPU clock speed.
I was dubious of the increased clock of the CPU, as I was sure that Sony had explicitly stated 1.6GHz. But on their official spec sheet PDF, they say:
It could be telling they didn't give either clock or performance of the CPU, but were happy to state the performance of the GPU.
So maybe they were still working out what was the maximum clock they could get decent yields for. Good news if true (unless if makes the cooling inefficient and the console melts after 10 minutes usage).
And so would be the ps4 too. The fact that we already have the FLOP rating of the ps4 gpu suggests the clock speed of the cpu. So if you are increasing the clock speed of the cpu to 2.0ghz then you will increase the clock speed of the gpu to 1.0ghz too, and it hasn't, going by the official specs published by Sony. So this is quite a rubbish rumor I think.
I love the bias in this post. Being sceptical of one rumour based on certainty of another.
Yes, PS4's CPU probably got dowgraded to 999.999MHz.
And so would be the ps4 too. The fact that we already have the FLOP rating of the ps4 gpu suggests the clock speed of the cpu. So if you are increasing the clock speed of the cpu to 2.0ghz then you will increase the clock speed of the gpu to 1.0ghz too, and it hasn't, going by the official specs published by Sony. So this is quite a rubbish rumor I think.
I'm pretty sure the clock speed is going to be more than 1.6 GHz and I have thought that for a while. AMD and Sony were both willing to throw out numbers for GPU and RAM but not CPU. I don't expect it to be too big of an increase but I don't think that 2Ghz is out of the question. I thought I heard someone over at B3D was saying 1.8GHz which sounds reasonable to me.
Thats my opinion too, both of the rumours for Orbis/Durango saying that they both have a GPU/CPU combo running at 800mhz/1.6Ghz is pretty telling imo, yield / performance sweet spot must be there.
And so would be the ps4 too. The fact that we already have the FLOP rating of the ps4 gpu suggests the clock speed of the cpu. So if you are increasing the clock speed of the cpu to 2.0ghz then you will increase the clock speed of the gpu to 1.0ghz too, and it hasn't, going by the official specs published by Sony. So this is quite a rubbish rumor I think.
See my post a few above yours. The current AMD APUs have CPU and GPUs clocks well out of sync with each other.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=48378164&postcount=438
Yeah I can see that. But you should look at my post above. It explains why I think its a very unlikely thing to do.