Support NeoGAF

[BlackJace]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but those are the games I'm hoping you can buy with your console from day 1.

I think that lineup offers a little bit for everyone while satisfying the core gamer with two massive, well-recognized AAA titles.

Sony should space out there first-party titles (there will be plenty in the launch window) IMO.

So I ask, why does that lineup sound weak, and can you remember a stronger launch lineup than this?

Edit: Let ask you this as well, since it just dawned on me that UC4 will 99% not be ready for day 1, what first-party title would you have replace it?

First party? I'd love to see a new Killzone or Infamous at launch, especially Infamous.

I said it was weak because there's nothing special about the yearly sports titles, and then just an Uncharted.
If you want to look at good launch lineups, look at the N64's or, more recently, the Vita's.

 

[Unknown One]

Perhaps give you an option to put in a SSD.

 

[Mandoric]

A hybrid drive would be the best of both worlds, really. The flash portion could be used for caching purposes, and you get great storage value on the rest of it.

A hybrid's pointless if they control the OS and the software. All the logic that would live on the controller in a PC could easily go into the OS, leaving two commodity parts that could be repaired and replaced independently rather than one pricey premium part.

 

[Iacobellis]

You wouldn't be able to fit very much next gen content on a 256GB drive.

For the first year or two of the system's life? Yes you could. I used the 60GB hard drive that came pre-installed with my PS3 from December 2006 until May 2009. That's almost three years of owning the console.

 

[Valnen]

For the first year or two of the system's life? Yes you could. I used the 60GB hard drive that came pre-installed with my PS3 from December 2006 until May 2009. That's almost three years of owning the console.

Then you didn't download/buy much. I can't fit even a quarter of my content on my 60GB drive. Thank Playstation Plus for that.

 

[Iacobellis]

Then you didn't download/buy much. I can't fit even a quarter of my content on my 60GB drive.

A quarter of your content that you have now. Yes, I was down to a measly 5GB before I switched to a 360, but deleting ridiculously sized install and patch files like from RE5 and GTA IV brought a good amount of my storage back. PlayStation Plus wasn't even around yet when I stopped playing my PS3.

 

[iceatcs]

The problem is if SSD is standard then it won't allow do your own upgrade. People might put 1TB HDD not SSD, could cause the game data stream problem.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

The problem is if SSD is standard then it won't allow do your own upgrade. People might put 1TB HDD not SSD. Then the game data stream will have problem.

Unless they release proprietary drives. Sony did it with the Vita, same with MS and the 360.

 

[Iacobellis]

The problem is if SSD is standard then it won't allow do your own upgrade. People might put 1TB HDD not SSD, could cause the game data stream problem.

You can't hold onto (what is becoming) legacy hardware forever. SSD's cost more, but the reward is so good. Putting a 256GB SSD in standard would be plenty for most consumers.

 

[iceatcs]

Unless they release proprietary drives. Sony did it with the Vita, same with MS and the 360.

Yep it is only way. That's why Vita is the reason to have proprietary memory stick because SD have way too much different speed, and as well money.

You can't hold onto (what is becoming) legacy hardware forever. SSD's cost more, but the reward is so good. Putting a 256GB SSD in standard would be plenty for most consumers.

No no, nothing to do that. SSD have 500MB/s. HDD can't do that and will cause problem if game require data stream. Not everyone know SSD is faster than HDD.

 

[Iacobellis]

Yep it is only way. That's why Vita is the reason to have proprietary memory stick because SD have way too much different speed, and as well money.


No no, nothing to do that. SSD have 500MB/s. HDD can't do that and will cause problem if game require data stream.

Maybe Sony can cap the SSD at 100MB/sec for games, but let the SSD max out everywhere else. Get rid of those nasty install times for demos, DLC, and updates. Consoles aren't just for games anymore.

 

[Duffyside]

Proprietary drives seem like a probability for both. Too much money in it. Sony had to be kicking themselves this entire generation for not doing so while MS raked in the easy money.

 

[xJavonta]

And that is why some form of BC is necessary, especially with downloadable titles. Some people have bought a LOT on XBL/PSN, and if people will lose access to that stuff down the line they'll stop being customers.

True. I'm not even worried about BC (I'll keep my 360 around for that) but I'm most definitely in the minority when it comes to that.

Eh, While 720 and ps4 should be a reasonable price, I think people like your friends aren't the type who will jump any time soon regardless of price. BC would really help the latter comment though, so i hope microsoft and sony are taking note.

They're probably the majority though. People on GAF, the section of the demographic that will jump on launch consoles regardless of what there is to them, are the minority.

In fact I know a ton of people that bought launch 360s (not so much for PS3s) that are saying the same thing now.

 

[iceatcs]

Maybe Sony can cap the SSD at 100MB/sec for games, but let the SSD max out everywhere else. Get rid of those nasty install times for demos, DLC, and updates. Consoles aren't just for games anymore.

What is the point of it? is it because you still want to upgrade your own?
But it could be nothing to do, because of blu-ray speed will lower data stream limit.

I will happy if they go for SSD tech if it is proprietary only, meaning the standard will be higher like 500MB/s. PSN game loading will be bless

 

[Valnen]

True. I'm not even worried about BC (I'll keep my 360 around for that) but I'm most definitely in the minority when it comes to that.

Your 360 will break eventually. If there's no BC, say goodbye to your stuff.

If we can't have BC at launch I hope Sony uses it's patent for a BC "attachment".

 

[weekend_warrior]

SSD prices have dropped a considerable amount in the past few years. The price to performance ratio is astounding, I would a take 256GB drive with 500MB/sec read and write speeds any day over the ~100MB/sec transfer speeds of a 2TB disk.

500GB HDD- $50
128GB SDD- $150

It would be ridiculous for Sony to include anything larger then the base customers need. An SDD is a very large cost addition for something that's not necessary. As long as it has the option to install a larger HDD or SDD (like the PS3) that's good enough.

 

[spwolf]

there wont be SSD, it is pointless discussion... it is as if we are arguing if PS4 will be gold plated.

 

[Xdrive05]

Interesting that Sony will be the one with the more conventional, off-the-shelf PC processor while Microsoft will be going for the more n-threaded, more and smaller cores approach.

Industry is weird yo.

EDIT: Also bodes well for current PC's to have good multiplat support right out the gate if these engines have to run on Sony's x86 quad core.

 

[iceatcs]

500GB HDD- $50
128GB SDD- $150

It would be ridiculous for Sony to include anything larger then the base customers need. An SDD is a very large cost addition for something that's not necessary. As long as it has the option to install a larger HDD or SDD (like the PS3) that's good enough.

And also blu-ray can go up to 60MB/s for now. It is better off stick with HDD than SSD. Otherwise lot of wasted potential

 

[xJavonta]

Your 360 will break eventually. If there's no BC, say goodbye to your stuff.

If we can't have BC at launch I hope Sony uses it's patent for a BC "attachment".

I have another in a box that hasn't been opened yet lol

By the time that is worn out (I don't play my consoles much), I would assume emulation for this current generation would be possible, and that alleviates my concerns.

I see where you're coming from nonetheless.

 

[Iacobellis]

there wont be SSD, it is pointless discussion... it is as if we are arguing if PS4 will be gold plated.

Because most electronics have moved to flash storage nowadays, meaning they are gold plated as well?

 

[Duffyside]

These consoles need to plan for a seven year life, at least. The future is in SSD. It would be foolish to not plan for that now and use it to your advantage.

 

[iceatcs]

Because most electronics have moved to flash storage nowadays, meaning they are gold plated as well?

that's because most of them only up to 64GB and slower speed than SSD (not enough IMO). SSD (not flash (i dunno about it) has better pricing but still extreme expensive.

 

[Gorillaz]

That's ridiculous.

Pricing is their biggest hurdle, IMO. I was talking to a few friends about how the 360 is really long in the tooth and they said stuff like "I don't know, bro. I still think the graphics look really good" and "I've invested a lot in my 360 already, I don't really want a new console"

Ugh.

This is both MS and Sony's main problem. Getting people out there to jump into next gen. I know alot of friends that are saying the same thing like

"wait? didn't PS360 just come out a few years ago? why are new ones coming out so early?"

I hear this line ALOT. People are accustom and feel happy about where graphics(especially graphics) and ecosystem that they built on the HD twins. Getting them to switch after all these years will be painful. It won't be like other gen's, naw I see it being a real problem for both.

 

[Polo67]

Proprierty Hybrid drives are coming to the PS3 . You can mark my words!

 

[weekend_warrior]

Because most electronics have moved to flash storage nowadays, meaning they are gold plated as well?

Because it is a foolish expense. The PS4 needs AT LEAST a 250GB hard drive, if that were to be an SSD it would be an added $200. Why on Earth would Sony want to do that?

 

[Iacobellis]

These consoles need to plan for a seven year life, at least. The future is in SSD. It would be foolish to not plan for that now and use it to your advantage.

Exactly. Duffyside gets it completely. It's like releasing a computer in 2000 with PS/2 ports when USB was quickly becoming the new standard. Microsoft put a hard drive in the Xbox and that proved to pave the way for how consoles should be. SEGA put a 56k modem in every Dreamcast, now we have Wi-Fi connections in every console and handheld you can buy today.

No one is making a big fuss about 4K, yet that will require a top of the line mobile GPU. You want to watch those pretty movies once you get your brand spanking new 4K TV, right? A conventional HDD won't cut it for streaming that kind of stuff.

 

[njr]

I'm hoping they are able to make a sort of expansion bay that would support both SATA and SSD. It wouldn't need to launch with SSD, I would be happy enough to buy one on my own. (Unless im mistaken they use the same port)

 

[test_account]

Do you need to do something special to include SSD later on though? I mean, is there some optimizing programing in the OS that need to take advantage of SSD, or isnt it possible to just include SSD in later console models when it is cheaper?

 

[Duffyside]

Because it is a foolish expense. The PS4 needs AT LEAST a 250GB hard drive, if that were to be an SSD it would be an added $200. Why on Earth would Sony want to do that?

What is $200 dollars to you isn't $200 to Sony, buying millions of these things. But, you're right, they do need to pinch their pennies, which is why I still like the proprietary hybrid idea.

 

[Iacobellis]

I'm hoping they are able to make a sort of expansion bay that would support both SATA and SSD. It wouldn't need to launch with SSD, I would be happy enough to buy one on my own. (Unless im mistaken they use the same port)

HDD's and SSD's both use SATA III, but consoles usually have the cord tucked away in the box, or a proprietary connector is used after a SATA connection is established, like the 360.

 

[Racer30]

Because it is a foolish expense. The PS4 needs AT LEAST a 250GB hard drive, if that were to be an SSD it would be an added $200. Why on Earth would Sony want to do that?

Added 200$? It would be max 120GB for system/install ssd...and when they buy it in bulk of millions, they get it for half the price....bet they would pay something like 50$ for a 120GB..and maybe 20-30 for a regular a little bigger. Not much difference at all.

SSD disk would be a really cheap way of speeding up overall performance!

Cant imagine sitting in 2017 with a 2.5" slow ass hdd!

 

[paskowitz]

Why not put in a hybrid HDSSD?

 

[Iacobellis]

Why not put in a hybrid HDSSD?

A hybrid could work.

I can honestly see Sony doing a two SKU deal where the low end model is fitted with a 250-500GB HDD, and the higher end has a 256GB SSD, or even a 128GB. Apple sells MacBooks everyday where the cheaper computer has more storage space than the one that could cost $2,000.

 

[Racer30]

Why not put in a hybrid HDSSD?

Or two bays, one for system/install, one for storage. (Cheap SKU comes with empty storage bay)

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Why not put in a hybrid HDSSD?

It's what I'm using for my PS3.

That said, loading is not an issue for me. 3.5" hard drive would be good enough for me.

It could have 8GB dedicated flash memory for OS.

 

[Racer30]

A hybrid could work.

I can honestly see Sony doing a two SKU deal where the low end model is fitted with a 250-500GB HDD, and the higher end has a 256GB SSD, or even a 128GB. Apple sells MacBooks everyday where the cheaper computer has more storage space than the one that could cost $2,000.

Every PS4 should have a SSD, so they can maximize the speed advantage.

 

[McHuj]

Added 200$? It would be max 120GB for system/install ssd...and when they buy it in bulk of millions, they get it for half the price....bet they would pay something like 50$ for a 120GB..and maybe 20-30 for a regular a little bigger. Not much difference at all.

SSD disk would be a really cheap way of speeding up overall performance!

Cant imagine sitting in 2017 with a 2.5" slow ass hdd!

Imagine loading a 3-4GB level from a slow HD. I don't think we want to deal with load times that are 4-6X slower.

The reality is that the same drives that MS and Sony have now are simply insufficient for the future systems when you think about how much RAM those machines will have and how much data needs to be moved from disk to memory. Faster hard drives will be more expensive than what we have now. I doubt a 10k RPM drive is really viable either.

Due to the mechanical nature of HD's, they have a cost floor that's higher than that of an SSD so it wouldn't surprise me if a 500GB HD and a 128GB SSD really cost the same (to the manufacture)? So what do you prefer? Personally, I'll take the SSD for the better user experience, and then I'll upgrade in 2014/15 when the larger capacity drives are cheaper.

 

[Kaako]

Every PS4 should have a SSD, so they can maximize the speed advantage.

Sure would be nice and I'll for it if they can sell it for $350-450 price range. But I find this highly unlikely.

 

[Iacobellis]

Sure would be nice and I'll for it if they can sell it for $350-450 price range. But I find this highly unlikely.

A 128GB SSD is around $100 right now, for the consumer. It will certainly be cheaper for Sony to buy in bulk.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

First party? I'd love to see a new Killzone or Infamous at launch, especially Infamous.

I said it was weak because there's nothing special about the yearly sports titles, and then just an Uncharted.
If you want to look at good launch lineups, look at the N64's or, more recently, the Vita's.

N64 launched with literally two titles: SM64 and Pilotwings 64 lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_launch_games

It seems crazy because of nostalgia but most console launches suck. The lineup I proposed seems boring but it would honestly be one of the best 3D era launches behind perhaps the original Xbox.

Two AAA games ready for purchase day 1 is pretty special. CoD will probably be a day 1 title and I'm expecting a Sony first-party game (something other than FPS please) to be a launch title as well. The sports games are welcome additions if they bring better graphics to the table, and the casual stuff is cool too for a diverse launch lineup.

It would be incredible if Sony came out with 5 AAA first-party exclusives, but that would be too much at once, and a bad business move. People take a shit on the WiiU launch all the time and admittedly I hate the WiiU but it released with a bunch of decent games from day 1. Your right the Vita launch is insane except its a handheld.

TL;DR In short one great first-party title, CoD for its online, and Fifa for friends is enough to hold me over until Sony opens the floodgates with first-party new IPs.

 

[xJavonta]

Flash storage for the OS, HDD for everything else. Hybrid or a separate drive. Problem solved.

 

[iceatcs]

A 128GB SSD is around $100 right now, for the consumer. It will certainly be cheaper for Sony to buy in bulk.

I don't think it will be enough to be honest, unless new rule game data/installation limit. I think you need at least 256GB if you have to install disc game for better speed 500MB/s rather than 60MB/s from 14x blu-ray

 

[iamvin22]

im thinking the average game will be about 10-15 gigs on release.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

SSD are to expensive vs HDD when it comes to storage .
I expect everyone going to be pushing DD even harder next gen 128GB of space is nothing to full up.
Plus i also expect the average game size to go up since everyone going to be using blu ray .

 

[Baconsammy]

Whatever they choose better be easily swappable and proprietary. They need to learn from the things they did wrong last time.

 

[specialguy]

Your 360 will break eventually. If there's no BC, say goodbye to your stuff.

If we can't have BC at launch I hope Sony uses it's patent for a BC "attachment".

Well, if that happens, you could always pick up a used 360 probably cheap. Just like you could a PS2 today.

I've never got why BC is such a big deal. If you like the old games so much, keep your damn old system (that you obviously already own)! At worst it costs you some room under the TV.

Conversely, if you dont care enough about your old games to keep your old system, then BC doesn't mean that much to you. Catch 22.

It's a convenience, not a crucial thing. Yes it's better to have than not, but people need to keep in mind it comes at a cost. Would you rather have BC, or more RAM or other features? Cause thats what it is, a cost tradeoff for something else.

Would you trade no BC in PS3 at launch for an extra 256MB of RAM? I bet you would, and I wouldn't be surprised if costs were similar (considering early PS3's shipped with full PS2 chipsets IIRC)

 

[Duffyside]

Well, maybe I'm crazy, but I've envisioned with the hybrid drive idea that you would only have your most-desired content on the SSD at any time, and with an OS-level, simple user-operation to set movement between the two.

So, say you've pre-ordered the DD version of the next God of War. You tell your system that when it downloads that, it needs to take off Madden from the faster drive to make room for the new game. You could easily schedule it to happen in advance, so that at 12:01 on GoW day you can play your game without a fuss.

They would have to simplify the terms (that I don't even follow, cuz I'm dumb). "This is the blu-flash, and this is the red-storage-box! Red-storage-box big, blu-flash fast!"

 

[quest]

N64 launched with literally two titles: SM64 and Pilotwings 64 lol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_launch_games

It seems crazy because of nostalgia but most console launches suck. The lineup I proposed seems boring but it would honestly be one of the best 3D era launches behind perhaps the original Xbox.
Two AAA games ready for purchase day 1 is pretty special. CoD will probably be a day 1 title and I'm expecting a Sony first-party game (something other than FPS please) to be a launch title as well. The sports games are welcome additions if they bring better graphics to the table, and the casual stuff is cool too for a diverse launch lineup.

It would be incredible if Sony came out with 5 AAA first-party exclusives, but that would be too much at once, and a bad business move. People take a shit on the WiiU launch all the time and admittedly I hate the WiiU but it released with a bunch of decent games from day 1. Your right the Vita launch is insane except its a handheld.

TL;DR In short one great first-party title, CoD for its online, and Fifa for friends is enough to hold me over until Sony opens the floodgates with first-party new IPs.

Forgot about the north american dreamcast launch which will never be touched as the greatest launch lineup in gaming history.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Well, if that happens, you could always pick up a used 360 probably cheap. Just like you could a PS2 today.

I've never got why BC is such a big deal. If you like the old games so much, keep your damn old system (that you obviously already own)! At worst it costs you some room under the TV.

Conversely, if you dont care enough about your old games to keep your old system, then BC doesn't mean that much to you. Catch 22.

I like BC because i like everything in one. I don't want to have another machine there and also sometimes it enhances the visuals. Anyways all the digital games are being put in the store so i am sure those will be in your account when you transfer it to the next system. Vita plays psp and ps1 games that you bought in the past.