Support NeoGAF

[thuway]

Wasn't there a rumour about Sony launching 2 Dev kits with 8 and 16GB ram quite recently? Doesn't that show flexibility and that they have yet to finalize specs?

I cannot vouch for the validity of VG247. However, I can echo the VGleaks page. I constantly am referring to this page here- http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/

That is your PS4 with 4 GB of RAM. Two different PMs have told me I am "very" close with the specs. One PM even asked me if I worked at Sony.

I agree. 2GB was a reasonable target, but they probably got a bit scared of MS going all out and losing their edge in graphics (despite of the fact that they don't really need to go all out to win a gen, as Nintendo has proven), so they decided to push out for 4GB, the dame way MS upgraded 360 to 512MB after Epic complained. Aside from that, any other major mods at this point would require extra time and a lot of money and they don't have neither.

To be quite honest, Sony doesn't NEED to either. 4 GB of GDDR5 is an incredible amount of hyper fast RAM. It will have some very specific and noticable advantages. Programmers should quit their job if they can't figure how to utilize 4 GB of GDDR5.

4GB is the target amount for final spec, not in devkits.

Correct sir. It's might not be GDDR5 either, its 4 GB of RAM with 192 GB/S speed. Which is at the lower end of GDDR5 speeds, but still fast enough.

 

[BloodMoney]

Source?)

Obviously quite speculative, but those forums predicted a lot about GT5 a year in advance of it's final release.

I think that post could very well be accurate considering a Q4 2013 or Q1 2014 Orbis release would make GT6 on the PS3 a very poor decision. However, GT6 at launch or near launch (Q1/Q2 2014) would drum up a ton of system sales. Sony hasn't said a peep about GT6. Whenever they reveal Orbis, i wouldn't be surprised if they also released GT6 footage.

 

[Racer30]

A year from now SSD's will cost half what they do now. As for performance, it's night and day. For example, booting into windows 7 in 5 seconds (SSD) vs 15 seconds (10000 RPM HDD).

I share the concern about size though, especially considering, as you've mentioned, that next gen games are going to be huge (20-30 GB). It wont take long to fill at 120GB SSD.

Spot on. SSD`s is a no brainer.

A 120GB system/install SSD at launch, with an upgradeable storage hdd bay for example.

 

[KAL2006]

...and Eastern Asia avoids it like the plague.

Japan doesn't matter

 

[i-Lo]

(despite of the fact that they don't really need to go all out to win a gen, as Nintendo has proven),

Nintendo isn't directly competing with PS4 and XB3. Nintendo sells based on the strength of their first party. Playstation requires both first and third party support (esp. in EU) and they are in direct competition with MS. Losing ground to them when it comes to third party games because of comparatively weaker specification would mean losing more market share. What works for Nintendo won't for Sony. It's a good thing they upgraded. But even now, not knowing the size of the OS is making XB3 look "better".

Personally, I really don't know if it would require more than either 256 or 512MB of (precious) ram.

 

[BloodMoney]

Correct sir. It's might not be GDDR5 either, its 4 GB of RAM with 192 GB/S speed. Which is at the lower end of GDDR5 speeds, but still fast enough.

Thanks for clarification, i'm getting a bit lost with all the numbers/specs being thrown around

 

[pharmboy044]

Is that still the case, the PS3 has been a success because of Western philosophy to tech.

No that is not the case anymore. SCEA and SCEE have a huge amount of input for the PS4 compared to the PS3.

 

[stryke]

VGLeaks says 2GB is the current target, and it might be raised to 4GB. Or not.

Yes, that was back in June. We now have reason to believe they have increased it to 4GB, according to thuway anyway.

 

[DBT85]

The PS4 will contain a SSD.

Fact or speculation?

Despite SSD prices coming down they are still expensive per GB compared to a HDD. You can buy a 2TB drive for the same price as a 128GB SSD. Sony and Microsoft have been bringing out new revisions with larger drives since the generation launched, I doubt very much that they'll start back down at 120GB just to include an SSD. The public on the whole know that bigger numbers mean better and capacity is the number they are going to look at, not data transfer speeds or load times.

Games are all going to be larger, because none will have to be limited to fit on a DVD. As a result any installs are going to be much larger and 120GB just wont cut it, and any larger is going to be cost prohibitive in my view.

 

[Racer30]

Obviously quite speculative, but those forums predicted a lot about GT5 a year in advance of it's final release.

I think that post could very well be accurate considering a Q4 2013 or Q1 2014 Orbis release would make GT6 on the PS3 a very poor decision. However, GT6 at launch or near launch (Q1/Q2 2014) would drum up a ton of system sales. Sony hasn't said a peep about GT6. Whenever they reveal Orbis, i wouldn't be surprised if they also released GT6 footage.

Thanks! This could very well be...this could explain the long dev cycle with GT5, maybe its made really future proof/modular. (Kaz mentioned this in an interview before GT5 launch) Im sure its multicore/thread capabillity really shines, and it should be a breeze to program for an AMD 4 core processor compared to Cell.

 

[kikonawa]

A very small ssd coulf be possible for os and caching but i said too much

 

[MikeE21286]

A very small ssd coulf be possible for os and caching but i said too much

Like the momentous hybrid...

 

[i-Lo]

He's wrong. 'Pedia is right. Games can use more than 400 MBs of main memory if they need to on Vita. The actual reserved amount could be as little as 64-96MBs.

That's sounds like an efficient OS. Makes you wonder why the PS4 would ever need 1GB reserved for OS. Ever inquire as to why Sony or any developer never disclosed the size of the current OS footprint?

I cannot vouch for the validity of VG247. However, I can echo the VGleaks page. I constantly am referring to this page here- http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/

That is your PS4 with 4 GB of RAM. Two different PMs have told me I am "very" close with the specs. One PM even asked me if I worked at Sony.

That sounds comforting. I just realized that the OS footprint most likely isn't 1GB, not unless Sony told the third and first parties that they'll only have 1GB of RAM for development when PS4 was still rumoured to have 2GB RAM. Of course in this case, the original pastebin rant berating Sony would make a lot more sense all of a sudden.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Fact or speculation?

Despite SSD prices coming down they are still expensive per GB compared to a HDD. You can buy a 2TB drive for the same price as a 128GB SSD. Sony and Microsoft have been bringing out new revisions with larger drives since the generation launched, I doubt very much that they'll start back down at 120GB just to include an SSD. The public on the whole know that bigger numbers mean better and capacity is the number they are going to look at, not data transfer speeds or load times.

Games are all going to be larger, because none will have to be limited to fit on a DVD. As a result any installs are going to be much larger and 120GB just wont cut it, and any larger is going to be cost prohibitive in my view.

Funny phones and tablets seem to find success without each iteration increasing memory capacity

And starting with a lower spec 120GB or so makes sense for a business road map. Increasing the HDD space without decreasing price over the course of the years allows them to add value without really affecting their bottom line

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Fact or speculation?

Despite SSD prices coming down they are still expensive per GB compared to a HDD. You can buy a 2TB drive for the same price as a 128GB SSD. Sony and Microsoft have been bringing out new revisions with larger drives since the generation launched, I doubt very much that they'll start back down at 120GB just to include an SSD. The public on the whole know that bigger numbers mean better and capacity is the number they are going to look at, not data transfer speeds or load times.

Games are all going to be larger, because none will have to be limited to fit on a DVD. As a result any installs are going to be much larger and 120GB just wont cut it, and any larger is going to be cost prohibitive in my view.

Sony and MS have a huge bargaining power when buying specific components. HDD manufacturers would work for very small margins if someone came out and ordered 5m-10m units yearly.

 

[Racer30]

Fact or speculation?

Despite SSD prices coming down they are still expensive per GB compared to a HDD. You can buy a 2TB drive for the same price as a 128GB SSD. Sony and Microsoft have been bringing out new revisions with larger drives since the generation launched, I doubt very much that they'll start back down at 120GB just to include an SSD. The public on the whole know that bigger numbers mean better and capacity is the number they are going to look at, not data transfer speeds or load times.

Games are all going to be larger, because none will have to be limited to fit on a DVD. As a result any installs are going to be much larger and 120GB just wont cut it, and any larger is going to be cost prohibitive in my view.

Common sense really. It would give a HUGE boost in a closed system.

Capacity could be solved with having an additional hdd storage bay (for old shcool hdd or ssd). (With both system and storage disk bay being upgradeable)

 

[stryke]

Funny phones and tablets seem to find success without each iteration increasing memory capacity

And starting with a lower spec 120GB or so makes sense for a business road map. Increasing the HDD space without decreasing price over the course of the years allows them to add value without really affecting their bottom line

I don't think app sizes increase so much as game size with each hardware iteration

 

[BloodMoney]

Thanks! This could very well be...this could explain the long dev cycle with GT5, maybe its made really future proof/modular. (Kaz mentioned this in an interview before GT5 launch) Im sure its multicore/thread capabillity really shines, and it should be a breeze to program for an AMD 4 core processor compared to Cell.

To add to the GT6 rumor train, it is also KNOWN that there are number of GT5 assets (tracks) that were never released as DLC for GT5. For example, Before GT5 released Redbull aired a GT5 trailer which showed footage of the El Capitan track which has been featured in past GT's. El Capitan never showed up in GT5. There are quite a few people who think assets which were built for GT5 were with held due to the game's late release in the PS3's life cycle. The thought being that such assets could be withheld (GT5 would sell well regardless) but when GT6's drops it will come with a significant amount of content. El Capitan, ton's of legacy GT tracks, yadda yadda yadda. And as mentioned above, it is also KNOWN that GT5's premium cars were modeled beyond the capabilities of the PS3, which supports that GT6 will be on PS4.

Apologies for the essay. I'm simply excited.

 

[gofreak]

He's wrong. 'Pedia is right. Games can use more than 400 MBs of main memory if they need to on Vita. The actual reserved amount could be as little as 64-96MBs.

Really? That's quite amazing if true, I mean, compared to PS3's OS. But SCEE was telling devs they have 256MB to play with here: http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/jordan2011/2011JordanGamingSummit.pdf

 

[Polo67]

What are the chances of this console having a fusion drive? It seems logical

 

[MikeE21286]

To add to the GT6 rumor train, it is also KNOWN that there are number of GT5 assets (tracks) that were never released as DLC for GT5. For example, Before GT5 released Redbull aired a GT5 trailer which showed footage of the El Capitan track which has been featured in past GT's. El Capitan never showed up in GT5. There are quite a few people who think assets which were built for GT5 were with held due to the game's late release in the PS3's life cycle. The thought being that such assets could be withheld (GT5 would sell well regardless) but when GT6's drops it will come with a significant amount of content. El Capitan, ton's of legacy GT tracks, yadda yadda yadda. And as mentioned above, it is also KNOWN that GT5's premium cars were modeled beyond the capabilities of the PS3, which supports that GT6 will be on PS4.

Apologies for the essay. I'm simply excited.

GT5 Epilogue releases at launch and GT6 comes 3 years later...?

 

[i-Lo]

Really? That's quite amazing if true, I mean, compared to PS3's OS. But SCEE was telling devs they have 256MB to play with here: http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/jordan2011/2011JordanGamingSummit.pdf

Even at that, it's amazing all the multimedia, social features that can be accessed and tasks accomplished with 256MB. Look at what the PS3 can today with 50MB as opposed to 120MB when it first launched. The only discernible lack of feature that I can recall is the continued video playback in the background when XMB was accessed. It's something that I could more than live with. It just drives me up the wall when I try to ascertain the potential list of features that could drive up the OS footprint to a 1GB.

 

[Racer30]

Fact or speculation?

Despite SSD prices coming down they are still expensive per GB compared to a HDD. You can buy a 2TB drive for the same price as a 128GB SSD. Sony and Microsoft have been bringing out new revisions with larger drives since the generation launched, I doubt very much that they'll start back down at 120GB just to include an SSD. The public on the whole know that bigger numbers mean better and capacity is the number they are going to look at, not data transfer speeds or load times.

Games are all going to be larger, because none will have to be limited to fit on a DVD. As a result any installs are going to be much larger and 120GB just wont cut it, and any larger is going to be cost prohibitive in my view.

My BF3 PC folder is 27GB with all expansion packs....GT5 is 10GB and they launched with 20/60GB on PS3, I think 120GB is going to cut it!

 

[BloodMoney]

GT5 Epilogue releases at launch and GT6 comes 3 years later...?

Ha, i hope not.

 

[Sid]

Kaz did say that GT6 won't take as long to make as GT5.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Even at that, it's amazing all the multimedia, social features that can be accessed and tasks accomplished with 256MB. Look at what the PS3 can today with 50MB as opposed to 120MB when it first launched. The only discernible lack of feature that I can recall is the continued video playback in the background when XMB was accessed. It's something that I could more than live with. It just drives me up the wall when I try to ascertain the potential list of features that could drive up the OS footprint to a 1GB.

Well, what if one wants to: play a game, be in voice chat, browse the internet, boot up the store to buy something, check their twitter/facebook, exchange messages between friends -- all without a second of delay between features. And, I think the interface will be a lot of lively than the XMB. Does that make a dent? They don't want to make the mistake of not having enough flexibility to implement features like voice-chat because they didn't plan ahead. Even if all those things listed above don't warrant so much memory -- something might 2 years down the line.

 

[test_account]

I wonder if Sony will go into deeper info about the hardware power capabilities. I remember that they did this specifically with the PS3. Or if they will just show some tech demos and say "this looks amazing" and say nothing detailed about the hardware power itself, or maybe throw in a "this is X-time more powerful than a PS3".

 

[DESTROYA]

Do you mean hybrid? Because I don't think SONY'S gonna harness the power of the sun and go nuclear. But I could be wrong.

What are the chances of this console having a fusion drive? It seems logical

 

[Oni Jazar]

Launch Window Line Up
Uncharted 4
Killzone 4
4 new IP's

If next gen we have to look forward to more Uncharted/Killzone rehashes then we may as well just take the industry and throw it in the toilet. Killzone was never *that* great. Uncharted has ran its course. Sony needs to stop relying on the Uncharted/KZ/Resistance/LBP franchises completely.

 

[Racer30]

To add to the GT6 rumor train, it is also KNOWN that there are number of GT5 assets (tracks) that were never released as DLC for GT5. For example, Before GT5 released Redbull aired a GT5 trailer which showed footage of the El Capitan track which has been featured in past GT's. El Capitan never showed up in GT5. There are quite a few people who think assets which were built for GT5 were with held due to the game's late release in the PS3's life cycle. The thought being that such assets could be withheld (GT5 would sell well regardless) but when GT6's drops it will come with a significant amount of content. El Capitan, ton's of legacy GT tracks, yadda yadda yadda. And as mentioned above, it is also KNOWN that GT5's premium cars were modeled beyond the capabilities of the PS3, which supports that GT6 will be on PS4.

Apologies for the essay. I'm simply excited.

I know, I`m excited too

 

[Chuck Norris]

If next gen we have to look forward to more Uncharted/Killzone rehashes then we may as well just take the industry and throw it in the toilet. Killzone was never *that* great. Uncharted has ran its course. Sony needs to stop relying on the Uncharted/KZ/Resistance/LBP franchises completely.

How has Uncharted run its course? Selling 5-6 million per title and growing

 

[Striek]

Sony develops more new IPs than the other console manufacturers, so I don't get your point?

Three of those franchises were only released last generation. None have been milked more than any other popular franchise.

Sony needs to keep delivering IPs people like and develop new IPs. Not abandon IPs like they did last-gen "just because".

 

[Polo67]

Do you mean hybrid? Because I don't think SONY'S gonna harness the power of the sun and go nuclear. But I could be wrong.

Yes the hybrid drive. It's the best of both worlds and the OS can run off it

 

[Maxrunner]

A 500€ console? I hope Sony as other plans for Europe then...

 

[KAL2006]

If next gen we just have to look forward to more Uncharted/Killzone rehashes then we may as well just take the industry and throw it in the toilet. Killzone was never *that* great. Uncharted has ran it's course. We need new experiences.

I agree with Killzone, but I still think it has potential if they change things up. And Uncharted is now a big IP, of course they are gonna pump out sequels for that. As for new IPs, Guerilla Games, Santa Monica, Evolution, Sucker Punch, Ready at Dawn, MediaMolecule and a few other studios I forgot are all rumoured to be making new IPs. And let's not forget Last of Us, Until Dawn, Beyond and Pupeteer are all recent new IPs coming to PS3 soon.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Really? That's quite amazing if true, I mean, compared to PS3's OS. But SCEE was telling devs they have 256MB to play with here: http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/jordan2011/2011JordanGamingSummit.pdf

Maybe the rules are different for 3rd parties, but there's a screenshot floating around with a dev console visible that showed Uncharted on Vita using more than 400MBs IIRC.

 

[Polo67]

You can pretty much count on a new kill zone and uncharted next gen. Along with a slew of new IPs. No reason to get upset here

 

[rdrr gnr]

How has Uncharted run its course? Selling 5-6 million per title and growing

What are the numbers?

 

[Black Republican]

just have a solid launch lineup and im there

sony has never had one.

never.

 

[Mario007]

What are the numbers?

17 million for the franchise as of 6 months ago when the GOTY edition was released.

 

[rdrr gnr]

17 million for the franchise as of 6 months ago when the GOTY edition was released.

That number isn't indicative of the trend of the franchise. UC3 outsold UC2, handily?

 

[pharmboy044]

sony has never had one.

never.

The Vita launch lineup says hello.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Can´t Sony just have 4GB GDDR5 RAM for games and 2GB GDDR3 for OS and everything else? I mean even since GDDR5 is expensive, Sony would still get much cheap because of the huge amount that they order.

Japan doesn't matter

Japan still matters. A 1-2 million consoles a year are not nothing you know.

 

[gofreak]

Maybe the rules are different for 3rd parties, but there's a screenshot floating around with a dev console visible that showed Uncharted on Vita using more than 400MBs IIRC.

Dev consoles might have more memory... wouldn't make sense for third and first parties to have different environments wrt the OS. Needs to do the same things for both.

 

[Orayn]

Can´t Sony just have 4GB GDDR5 RAM for games and 2GB GDDR3 for OS and everything else? I mean even since GDDR5 is expensive, Sony would still get much cheap because of the huge amount that they order.

No. There's a link earlier in the thread, but someone explained how using the 4GB of GDDR5 as your main and video memory for games would cause the game to seize up whenever you had to use any kind of OS functionality and the OS was running in a slower, separate pool.

 

[Graphics Horse]

To add to the GT6 rumor train, it is also KNOWN that there are number of GT5 assets (tracks) that were never released as DLC for GT5. For example, Before GT5 released Redbull aired a GT5 trailer which showed footage of the El Capitan track which has been featured in past GT's. El Capitan never showed up in GT5. There are quite a few people who think assets which were built for GT5 were with held due to the game's late release in the PS3's life cycle. The thought being that such assets could be withheld (GT5 would sell well regardless) but when GT6's drops it will come with a significant amount of content. El Capitan, ton's of legacy GT tracks, yadda yadda yadda. And as mentioned above, it is also KNOWN that GT5's premium cars were modeled beyond the capabilities of the PS3, which supports that GT6 will be on PS4.

Apologies for the essay. I'm simply excited.

The El Capitan part was duplicated from the PSP trailer for some reason, it even had the Standard Ferrari from that game. But the PSP trailers/intro shows they at least put all the GT4 tracks into their GT5 trailer making system and I'd like to see them back.

No. There's a link earlier in the thread, but someone explained how using the 4GB of GDDR5 as your main and video memory for games would cause the game to seize up whenever you had to use any kind of OS functionality and the OS was running in a slower, separate pool.

What if they had an ARM chip for the interface or is that what Nintendo and MS are doing.

Edit: OK seen the quote in the OP now.

If you mean background media apps (like Music Unlimited for your custom soundtracks, like on Vita), then the rumored special media processing chip(s) (I'm tempted to just refer to it as the Cell) will likely handle most of the grunt work while the memory-hogging app front-end could be swapped to local storage while it's in the background.

 

[Mario007]

That number isn't indicative of the trend of the franchise. UC3 outsold UC2, handily?

Judging by the first month NPD sales and how long UC3 has charted on the PAL charts, yes easily.

 

[stryke]

No. There's a link earlier in the thread, but someone explained how using the 4GB of GDDR5 as your main and video memory for games would cause the game to seize up whenever you had to use any kind of OS functionality and the OS was running in a slower, separate pool.

It's actually in the OP. Yet people still bring it up.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

No. There's a link earlier in the thread, but someone explained how using the 4GB of GDDR5 as your main and video memory for games would cause the game to seize up whenever you had to use any kind of OS functionality and the OS was running in a slower, separate pool.

Well, i think it would be forward thinking to have more than a 1GB for OS so Sony and consumers do not get screwed in the future like what happened with the PS3. Would 1GB be enough for the future? Like Mike said there might be updates that requires much more memory.

 

[Nachtmaer]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can answer this.

If those 192GB/s rumors turn out to be true, would that kind of speed be achievable with stacked memory instead of going the GGDR5 route?