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[LiquidSolid]

Exactly 3 years ago, it was announced the merging of Evolution and Liverpool (seems that Liverpool even helped on Motorstorm):
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sonys-michael-denny-part-two
http://community.us.playstation.com...-Liverpool-and-Evolution-Studios/td-p/4037761
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sonys-michael-denny-part-two

This never went through. KennyLinder (ex-Bigbig employee) pointed this out in the Sony Liverpool closing thread.

The "Microsoft model?"

No. Sony was the one who already lead with high production values.

And while Sony is certainly going to consolidate resources and bolster AAA efforts, they're not going to somehow have the devs duke it out and let some of them go.

Yeah, the idea of making developers compete within the company is crazy dumb. Instead of co-operating with each other, they'd be stabbing each other in the back.

 

[Globox_82]

The "Microsoft model?"

No. Sony was the one who already lead with high production values.

And while Sony is certainly going to consolidate resources and bolster AAA efforts, they're not going to somehow have the devs duke it out and let some of them go.

nope they are actually investing more then ever and growing. Just because they shut down some studios that doesn't mean they are shrinking, quite the opposite. Go listen to Yoshida on podcast Beyond. That is what he says.

I am 100% sure we are going to see new wipeout game at some point

 

[banjo5150]

They might be letting each of the developers compete with one another to see who to let go and who to keep. They have signaled they will make less 1st party games, but with higher production value to match the Microsoft model.

This makes me sad. I love Sony's uniqueness IMO they bring some games that Microsoft would not touch.

 

[uncleniccius]

http://www.playstationjobs.co.uk/vacancy/583-C-+-+--Generalist-Game-Programmer&page=1

"Candidates will also benefit from practical experience of:
- LUA script integration and application;
- User interface development and usability considerations;
- C# development;
- Large scale production pipelines;
- Streaming resource management;
- Multi-processor systems;
- Level editing tools;
- Test driven development;
- Microsoft Visual Studio;
- Perforce revision control;
- Agile methodologies such as Scrum and Lean."
I didn't think the PS3 had multiple processors? I know it is obvious it is coming, but we keep finding more and more evidence.
I wonder if Respawn are holding their announcement until E3?

 

[omonimo]

They might be letting each of the developers compete with one another to see who to let go and who to keep. They have signaled they will make less 1st party games, but with higher production value to match the Microsoft model.

So no more first parties games, ah?

 

[gofreak]

http://www.playstationjobs.co.uk/vacancy/583-C-+-+--Generalist-Game-Programmer&page=1

I didn't think the PS3 had multiple processors? I know it is obvious it is coming, but we keep finding more and more evidence.
I wonder if Respawn are holding their announcement until E3?

One of Evolution's other job posts makes it more obvious still:

http://www.playstationjobs.co.uk/vacancy/584-C--+--+---Graphics-&-Technology-Programmer&page=1

Multi-processor systems and GPU compute;

 

[uncleniccius]

One of Evolution's other job posts makes it more obvious still:

http://www.playstationjobs.co.uk/vacancy/584-C--+--+---Graphics-&-Technology-Programmer&page=1

I didn't see that; good find.
Why don't Sony just announce it this month like they did with the Vita? Then, at the Playstation event show off several games in more detail, and at E3 blow the system out of the water by unveiling the big games.

 

[uncleniccius]

I'm looking at the Microsoft visual studio stuff, does the PS3 even support it?
If not, that is a further hint at more traditional PC architecture in Orbis.

 

[Sid]

I didn't see that; good find.
Why don't Sony just announce it this month like they did with the Vita? Then, at the Playstation event show off several games in more detail, and at E3 blow the system out of the water by unveiling the big games.

Not before the TLOU releases,the PS3 still is doing well and unlike this gen sony isn't being forced unprepared to next gen.

 

[iamshadowlark]

One of Evolution's other job posts makes it more obvious still:

http://www.playstationjobs.co.uk/vacancy/584-C--+--+---Graphics-&-Technology-Programmer&page=1

Multi-processor huh? Certainly shouldn't mean multi-core. Maybe truth to the APU + GPU rumor.

 

[gofreak]

I'm looking at the Microsoft visual studio stuff, does the PS3 even support it?
If not, that is a further hint at more traditional PC architecture in Orbis.

There's two aspects to this.

1) When building production tools, you'd be building for PCs

2) Playstation development tools are custom but in Vita's case, at least, integrated with Visual Studio for a more familiar environment. I think they may have also done that with PS3's tools, but not sure if that was the case from the start.

Multi-processor huh? Certainly shouldn't mean multi-core. Maybe truth to the APU + GPU rumor.

I wouldn't read that into that comment... we could get bogged down in semantics here, but multiprocessing is often used as a generic term for parallel programming of any sort - including multicore CPU.

 

[uncleniccius]

Not before the TLOU releases,the PS3 still is doing well and unlike this gen sony isn't being forced unprepared to next gen.

If TLOU is May, they could show something at E3.
By E3 2011, they had showed plenty of U3 stuff.

 

[omonimo]

If TLOU is May, they could show something at E3.
By E3 2011, they had showed plenty of U3 stuff.

The bad thing is, where my heart hopes ps4 will be announced this year, my mind look to the important release list of this year & it's seems quite bizarre to announce a ps4 with all those games incoming on ps3. Looking to microsoft agenda, seems quite obvious xbox720 is more close. But I hope to wrong.

 

[Mario007]

The bad thing is, where my heart hopes ps4 will be announced this year, my mind look to the important release list of this year & it's seems quite bizarre to announce a ps4 with all those games incoming on ps3. Looking to microsoft agenda, seems quite obvious xbox720 is more close. But I hope to wrong.

All the big Sony games are coming out in the first half of 2013. Only Beyond is waiting for a release date, but Beyond will benefit from being on platform with a big userbase. Technically Puppeteer too.

I mean just looking at the first half of the year here are PS3 exclusives: GOW:A, Tales of Xillia, Ni No Kuni, The Last of Us. That seems a pretty busy schedule for the first half of the year.

 

[uncleniccius]

The bad thing is, where my heart hopes ps4 will be announced this year, my mind look to the important release list of this year & it's seems quite bizarre to announce a ps4 with all those games incoming on ps3. Looking to microsoft agenda, seems quite obvious xbox720 is more close. But I hope to wrong.

The only undated exclusives are Beyond and Pupateer as below. Both will likely be out in the first 6 months of this year, or soon after.

 

[dr_rus]

Also PS3 won't stop selling once PS4 will be announced and even after it'll be on the market. Having some games for PS3 even after PS4 launch is a good way to make some money on that user base.

 

[JoshHood]

The only undated exclusives are Beyond and Pupateer as below. Both will likely be out in the first 6 months of this year, or soon after.

I get the feeling Puppeteer might be later - there's retail presence here in the UK for both TLOU and Beyond, but nothing for Puppeteer. There's also Until Dawn somewhere along the line, but it's hardly something like TLOU that would have people holding off on a PS4 purchase - I'd predict a release around Halloween.

 

[Sid]

If TLOU is May, they could show something at E3.
By E3 2011, they had showed plenty of U3 stuff.

I think they'll unveil the ps4 on the last week of may at a playstation conference for worldwide release this fall,TLOU being released in may is a big indicator of that.

 

[Takao]

nope they are actually investing more then ever and growing. Just because they shut down some studios that doesn't mean they are shrinking, quite the opposite. Go listen to Yoshida on podcast Beyond. That is what he says.

I am 100% sure we are going to see new wipeout game at some point

Unless you look at it from the perspective as an owner of one of their handheld devices, in which you'll see studios that did support their handhelds getting shuttered in exchange for expanding studios who won't.

 

[Sid]

Unless you look at it from the perspective as an owner of one of their handheld devices, in which you'll see studios that did support their handhelds getting shuttered in exchange for expanding studios who won't.

It's all about dat orbis with dem jagged orbs.

 

[uncleniccius]

I get the feeling Puppeteer might be later - there's retail presence here in the UK for both TLOU and Beyond, but nothing for Puppeteer. There's also Until Dawn somewhere along the line, but it's hardly something like TLOU that would have people holding off on a PS4 purchase - I'd predict a release around Halloween.

A release for which around Halloween? As you said, they could easily launch the PS4 before something like Puppeteer comes out. Hopefully there is cloud backwards compatibility, because otherwise the online of some games (TLOU) will die quickly.

 

[Sid]

A release for which around Halloween? As you said, they could easily launch the PS4 before something like Puppeteer comes out. Hopefully there is cloud backwards compatibility, because otherwise the online of some games (TLOU) will die quickly.

PS3 would still get a lot of games so it wouldn't really matter.

 

[JoshHood]

A release for which around Halloween? As you said, they could easily launch the PS4 before something like Puppeteer comes out. Hopefully there is cloud backwards compatibility, because otherwise the online of some games (TLOU) will die quickly.

For Until Dawn, sorry.

 

[uncleniccius]

For Until Dawn, sorry.

That game will mean nothing sales wise though.
I've been looking on Linkedin, and all I can find is "Super secret project" for both SP and Evolution. Evolution did have several vehicle designers though, so that could be a clue.

 

[yurinka]

Do Until Dawn and Rain have an announced release date?

Unless you look at it from the perspective as an owner of one of their handheld devices, in which you'll see studios that did support their handhelds getting shuttered in exchange for expanding studios who won't.

Did they close SCEJ, Bend, Evolution, Superbot, SCE San Diego or Novarama? Santa Monica also helped with Sound Shapes and Escape Plan even if they don't developed them.
Guerrilla Cambridge and Media Molecule have Vita games on the works, so in this case they'll close them soon too.
I hate them for closing Liverpool, but I think it's an overstatement to say that they close the studios who support their handhelds.

 

[Takao]

Did they close SCEJ, Bend, Evolution or Novarama? Santa Monica also helped with Escape Plan even if they don't developed it.

No, they closed BigBig, Zipper, and Liverpool. BigBig was handheld exclusive, with both Liverpool and Zipper having both made PSP/Vita games.

 

[HermitArcader]

Wipeout Vita would like to disagree.

Apologies for the late reply, but it was an oversight on my part as I honestly didn't think of the Vita when making that remark. So this might come across as moving the goalposts but I wouln't use the Vita game sales as the basis for ending WipEout, Ridge Racer or any other long running genre series as we've seen with Everybody's Golf selling well in Japan on PS3.

Catching up with this thread, to tie this into the point raised by Takao above, I certainly wouldn't use it as the decision to close down first party studios that did what was asked of them and made exclusives for the platform.

But I can understand the restructuring around a smaller number of first party studios with multiple teams but it was a shame to see it happen in this way. I hope SCEE Cambridge are not treated in the same manner after Killzone Mercenary is released.

 

[Dusky]

Apologies for the late reply, but it was an oversight on my part as I honestly didn't think of the Vita when making that remark. So this might come across as moving the goalposts but I wouln't use the Vita game sales as the basis for ending WipEout, Ridge Racer or any other long running genre series as we've seen with Everybody's Golf selling well in Japan on PS3.

Catching up with this thread, to tie this into the point raised by Takao above, I certainly wouldn't use it as the decision to close down first party studios that did what was asked of them and made exclusives for the platform.

But I can understand the restructuring around a smaller number of first party studios with multiple teams but it was a shame to see it happen in this way. I hope SCEE Cambridge are not treated in the same manner after Killzone Mercenary is released.

They are now apart of Guerilla so that event is less likely to happen.

Although it may seem a bit far-fetched, Takao does make a genuine point. I certainly think that the Vita is a big problem at the moment, it hasn't gone well (or as well as Sony would have liked) and has likely contributed to the closure of these studios.

 

[Mario007]

Apologies for the late reply, but it was an oversight on my part as I honestly didn't think of the Vita when making that remark. So this might come across as moving the goalposts but I wouln't use the Vita game sales as the basis for ending WipEout, Ridge Racer or any other long running genre series as we've seen with Everybody's Golf selling well in Japan on PS3.

While I agree that the numbers of a launch Vita game were never going to be too huge, the problem was that even among the Vita releases WipEout didn't seem to rank particularly high. To be honest the only two launch titles that did well were Fifa and Uncharted. And unfortuntely I have to take that as an indication of the series' sale potential since that was the first retail WipEout game in ages.

 

[HermitArcader]

Yes that could be the key Dusky, SCEE Cambridge being partnered with another studio, hope Evolution is doing the same with Polyphony Digital - making sure the remainding teams are doing multiple tasks is vital for next gen.

While I agree that the numbers of a launch Vita game were never going to be too huge, the problem was that even among the Vita releases WipEout didn't seem to rank particularly high. To be honest the only two launch titles that did well were Fifa and Uncharted. And unfortuntely I have to take that as an indication of the series' sale potential since that was the first retail WipEout game in ages.

I still wouldn't end any series because they didn't sell as well as Fifa or Uncharted on Vita, as Clap Handz porting Everybody's Golf to PS3 is doing well in Japan, this is something that could still be done with 2048 especially considering that cross play funactionality has already been designed.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

BTW I was curious about the Until Dawn game mentioned above, looks interesting and the company is based in Guildford, same as Media Molecule.

Supermassive Games are also developing a Walking with Dinosaurs title for Wonderbook, pity it isn't a Pokemon Snap/Afrika type game. Which only goes to remind me that neither Rhno Studios' Afrika or Artdink's Aquanaut's Holiday weren't published here by SCEE *shakes fist*.

Would really like a game in that style for PS4.

 

[Takao]

They are now apart of Guerilla so that event is less likely to happen.

Although it may seem a bit far-fetched, Takao does make a genuine point. I certainly think that the Vita is a big problem at the moment, it hasn't gone well (or as well as Sony would have liked) and has likely contributed to the closure of these studios.

The only one that likely received the axe due to Vita bombing is Liverpool. BigBig was continually being downsized, and were closed before Vita even launched in Europe, or North America. Zipper was shut down less than a month after Unit 13 launched as well.

The truth of the situation is that Vita needs SCE WWS more than PS4 does, but it seems SCE WWS is more interested in PS4. The latter is pretty much guaranteed third party support for simply showing up to the party with a device that isn't insanely difficult to make games for, and arrives in a timely fashion. Vita on the other hand never really received western third party support, and what it's getting from Japan are hand me down ports initially intended for PSP, or PS3. It can't afford to be ignored.

 

[Kagari]

The only one that likely received the axe due to Vita bombing is Liverpool. BigBig was continually being downsized, and were closed before Vita even launched in Europe, or North America. Zipper was shut down less than a month after Unit 13 launched as well.

The truth of the situation is that Vita needs SCE WWS more than PS4 does, but it seems SCE WWS is more interested in PS4. The latter is pretty much guaranteed third party support for simply showing up to the party with a device that isn't insanely difficult to make games for, and arrives in a timely fashion. Vita on the other hand never really received western third party support, and what it's getting from Japan are hand me down ports initially intended for PSP, or PS3. It can't afford to be ignored.

The 3DS is in the same spot really. Most of the western support is on mobile now.

 

[Takao]

The 3DS is in the same spot really. Most of the western support is on mobile now.

Well, I'd argue that the PSP received better (as in quality, not quantity) western third party support than the DS did despite the huge difference in sales. Western third parties ignoring a Nintendo platform is pretty much news at 11 at this point.

The escape to mobile seems a bit shortsighted to me. It's as if the publishers are only looking at the userbase's potential rather than the reality. Selling 100k of a game at $40 (which should be easily doable for any big western IP with a quality spinoff) is a lot more money in your pocket than 500k at $1.

 

[Callibretto]

I got the impression that only indies really sold their games at $1. big name publishers can afford to sell their games more than that, like $5 at least and up to $10 or even $15. also a lot of mobile games from big publishers seems to rely on freemiums or in app purchases model, which is more suited for platform with big userbase.

 

[1st Course]

I got the impression that only indies really sold their games at $1. big name publishers can afford to sell their games more than that, like $5 at least and up to $10 or even $15. also a lot of mobile games from big publishers seems to rely on freemiums or in app purchases model, which is more suited for platform with big userbase.

The Asian Mobile/Social games market is where the real money is as far as mobile games go, Konami for example make more money from mobile games than Metal Gear and other console games:

Revenues for the company's Digital Entertainment division were up 5 per cent to ¥140.4 billion, though operating income almost doubled to ¥33 billion. That gives the division an operating margin of 23.5 per cent for FY2012, a huge increase over 12.8 per cent for FY2011.

And consumer games (console, handheld, PC) contributed very little to the division's success, with revenues slipping year-on-year from ¥65.7 billion to ¥50.4 billion. By contrast, Konami's sales from social network games rocketed from ¥15.8 billion to ¥36.7 billion.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...profits-soar-thanks-to-growth-in-social-games

The founder of GREE is the richest guy in the industry too I believe.

 

[Takao]

The founder of GREE is the richest guy in the industry too I believe.

Which is a bad thing if you value quality gaming. From what I've been told every GREE game no matter the IP is pretty much identical in terms of gameplay.

 

[newjeruse]

I hope Sony San Diego has had a forward team on next gen MLB The Show for a few years now, since they've only made marginal improvements in the last few iterations of the game.

 

[Oersted]

Any educated guesses what is more likely: Huge PS4 or Vita support by Sony. Or crossplay^^

Well, I'd argue that the PSP received better (as in quality, not quantity) western third party support than the DS did despite the huge difference in sales. Western third parties ignoring a Nintendo platform is pretty much news at 11 at this point.

The escape to mobile seems a bit shortsighted to me. It's as if the publishers are only looking at the userbase's potential rather than the reality. Selling 100k of a game at $40 (which should be easily doable for any big western IP with a quality spinoff) is a lot more money in your pocket than 500k at $1.

Which is a bad thing if you value quality gaming. From what I've been told every GREE game no matter the IP is pretty much identical in terms of gameplay.

You see what you did there.

And quality-wise, its really just your opinion that PSP received a higher rate of quality games .

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Any educated guesses what is more likely: Huge PS4 or Vita support by Sony. Or crossplay^^

PS4 support. SCEJ is the only branch of SCEWW that really cares about the Vita. SCEE and SCEA both seem to favour home consoles over handhelds.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

scea and scee should ditch the vita completely.

Its going nowhere here. And their support isnt helping it in japan.

scej could still focus on it. And their games should be ported to ps3 or psn.

 

[rCIZZLE]

scea and scee should ditch the vita completely.

Its going nowhere here. And their support isnt helping it in japan.

scej could still focus on it. And their games should be ported to ps3 or psn.

Vita had a pretty terrific first year when it comes to number of quality games. Owners certainly don't want them to ditch it.

 

[LiquidSolid]

scea and scee should ditch the vita completely.

Its going nowhere here. And their support isnt helping it in japan.

scej could still focus on it. And their games should be ported to ps3 or psn.

Wow. What an incredibly dumb idea. You realise this is what Sega did with the Saturn, right? How well did that work out for them? Bailing out on a system early tells your customers that they shouldn't risk buying your systems. Nothing good can come from it.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I got the impression that only indies really sold their games at $1. big name publishers can afford to sell their games more than that, like $5 at least and up to $10 or even $15. also a lot of mobile games from big publishers seems to rely on freemiums or in app purchases model, which is more suited for platform with big userbase.

Wrong. Check any statistics for App Store - already 70% of games are Free, vast majority of anything else is 0.99$. People will simply wait 3 weeks for 6.99$ to become 0.99$.

scea and scee should ditch the vita completely.

Its going nowhere here. And their support isnt helping it in japan.

You really don't get business. That's ok, the guy below does:

Wow. What an incredibly dumb idea. You realise this is what Sega did with the Saturn, right? How well did that work out for them? Bailing out on a system early tells your customers that they shouldn't risk buying your systems. Nothing good can come from it.

 

[Oersted]

Vita had a pretty terrific first year when it comes to number of quality games. Owners certainly don't want them to ditch it.

Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified? Silent Hill: Book of Memories? Fifa 13?

Yes, with Persona 4 Golden and LittleBigPlanet PS Vita it got actually some nice efforts, but the line-up was pretty much better on every console.

Wow. What an incredibly dumb idea. You realise this is what Sega did with the Saturn, right? How well did that work out for them? Bailing out on a system early tells your customers that they shouldn't risk buying your systems. Nothing good can come from it.

?

 

[Radec]

scea and scee should ditch the vita completely.

Its going nowhere here. And their support isnt helping it in japan.

scej could still focus on it. And their games should be ported to ps3 or psn.

and that's why you'll never make it to the gaming industry. or any business for that matter.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Yes, with Persona 4 Golden and LittleBigPlanet PS Vita it got actually some nice efforts, but the line-up was pretty much better on every console.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Wow. What an incredibly dumb idea. You realise this is what Sega did with the Saturn, right? How well did that work out for them? Bailing out on a system early tells your customers that they shouldn't risk buying your systems. Nothing good can come from it.

sega actually supported saturn all the way till 98. Almost 3 years. As far as software goes, id say 98 was the best year.

Somtimes its better to cut your losses early than to drag it out.

Every cent they spend on this, is a cent they dont spend on ps3/ps4. which has potential in the west.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified? Silent Hill: Book of Memories? Fifa 13?

Yes, with Persona 4 Golden and LittleBigPlanet PS Vita it got actually some nice efforts, but the line-up was pretty much better on every console.

Vita had an incredible lineup for being an expensive first year handheld. You seriously going to try and make an argument that the other consoles didn't have at least 3 bad games?

 

[Castor Krieg]

Every cent they spend on this, is a cent they dont spend on ps3/ps4. which has potential in the west.

That is not how it works. Also, L2Budget.

 

[Oersted]

List wars, really? And did you even read properly? Hence, almost every game the short Metacritic list has mentioned, has already a better entry on the big consoles.