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[Jimrpg]

They are play at 30 fps mayne. Constant slowdown. Missing key features and costumes have built in cheats in them. They are bad ports and do the games a disservice.

In terms of Koei Tecmo, used to love Dynasty warriors and samurai warriors back when they were in their 3rd and 1st iteration respectively but I can only take so many yellow turban rebellions and pop in soldiers that do nothing but stand around until you square square triangle them. At least up the graphical and technical power if you're going to do nothing mechanically interesting in the game, however I acknowledge people like them nowadays due to the brainless and shonen aspects of them.

This is also company that greenlit ninja gaiden 3. A game so focus tested and gutted to only have one weapon not to overwhelm the player, filled with QTE events cos god of war was doing it and nonsensical silly emphasis on story about atoning for ryu's past sins or something. I'm still so salty about it that I was sceptical about Nioh even after enjoying the alpha, beta and LCT. However i still have this eerie feeling in the back of my head that they're gonna fuck up the sequel. I guess I just have PTSD after NG3.

Nioh is amazing though and ninja gaiden 1 and 2.

Koei Tecmo PC ports though:

Well you have to be pretty hardcore to play every iteration of the Warriors games. It's more a series I see myself jumping in and out of and enjoying as necessary.

All the KT interviews that I've read about NG3, is that they really fucked up and they wanted to go back and make what they were good at. And I think Nioh does a good job of that.

I love Winning Post.

K-T should localise them ;_;
I was half-tempted to get the one on Steam, but idk on region locking.

I wanted Winning Post so much back in the PS2 days... I don't know how KT keep making games from random genres I want to buy. Its bizarre.

They are one of the better Japanese publishers, I think. I buy all the GUST games, some of the musou spinoffs and Nioh was great as well. It's nice that they tend to get localizations out in 6 months or less from the Japanese releases lately too.

Nioh worldwide release is probably one of the most impressive things this generation.

Is your avatar from Toukiden 2? I do want to get that eventually as well.

It's Okatsu from Nioh.

I don't know much about Koei Tecmo as a publisher, but I know a thing or two about their two main developers Team ninja and Omega Force.

They're pretty cool I guess? Nioh is a drug, Toukiden is my PS-Monster Hunter, and DOA have the hottest girls in fighting games.

Edit:

Actually now that I think about it "they have the hottest girls in *insert genre*" might be arguable .

It's crazy that KT might be the only developer that really do attractive girls well. I mean I love Yakuza games but their hostesses have a long way to go to get to KT level.

Love 'em. Big supporter of Vita, make some great games in a variety of different genres and clearly have decent ambitions.

Slightly disappointed they've ditched the platform at the final hurdle, but I won't hold it against them!

What games are they not bringing over anymore? I would have been day 1 for Nobunaga's Ambition. And yeah they're a huge part of why I love my Vita.

 

[James Scott]

They're a very efficient studio but their games aren't super good.
Haven't played a ton, admittedly, but I usually try out their demos and I've purchased a few.
They made a Souls and Monster Hunter clone which is not creative and the Musou reskins make fighting hundreds to thousands of soldiers boring due to how weak the enemies are. Maybe the open world semi-reboot would help.

 

[exfatal]

I like em, they make good games and hot ladies. Plus Hyrule Warriors was great and i love Ruto in that game

 

[SephLuis]

All the KT interviews that I've read about NG3, is that they really fucked up and they wanted to go back and make what they were good at. And I think Nioh does a good job of that.

I played both Vanilla and Razor's Edge NG3 and, going by RE improvements, they are on the right path. Vanilla NG3 was horrible and the steel on bone was one of the worst mechanics I have seen on an action game. RE completely changed the mechanic and it became something akin to the instant kill from Onimusha, which is perfect on NG3.

I actually prefer the gameplay from RE instead of NG2, however, RE still suffers in the sense that still is NG3 so enemies, bosses, levels and still crap. If they can use the combat from RE and make everything else new and good, NG4 will be awesome.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I love Dead or Alive as a fighting game franchise, but I hate how fan-servicey it is. I know, I know, it's a large part of the appeal for some people, but still.

Of it was as you wanted it would sell significantly less and have far less support.

Their titty engines are on-point.

If you seen foax3 their ass engine us even better. Hayashi is an ass man nowm

I think they need to stop messing around and make DOA6.

They been hinting it lsay tourney.

 

[xuchu]

Well you have to be pretty hardcore to play every iteration of the Warriors games. It's more a series I see myself jumping in and out of and enjoying as necessary.

Yeah, admittedly haven't played them since DW4 and SW2 but every time I see videos of the new ones I still see lots of pop in soldiers. Come on these games are popular and sell so much that they can throw a bigger budget on them or maybe reduce enemy count so you don't have so much pop in.

I played both Vanilla and Razor's Edge NG3 and, going by RE improvements, they are on the right path. Vanilla NG3 was horrible and the steel on bone was one of the worst mechanics I have seen on an action game. RE completely changed the mechanic and it became something akin to the instant kill from Onimusha, which is perfect on NG3.

I actually prefer the gameplay from RE instead of NG2, however, RE still suffers in the sense that still is NG3 so enemies, bosses, levels and still crap. If they can use the combat from RE and make everything else new and good, NG4 will be awesome.

Agree, NG3:RE was a step in the right direction but the problems of base game are still there and evident.

 

[laxu]

Based on DoA5, they can't port to PC worth shit. The game has severe controller issues and doesn't support anything but TV resolutions without a 3rd party DLL mod. It's like the developers had literally never worked with PCs or something to so fundamentally misunderstand simple stuff like resolution handling.

Don't even get me started on the fuckin' DLC costume pricing.

 

[Shin]

DoA5, DoAX3, Nioh and probably some other good games that they released this gen.
Still waiting on DoA6 and hopefully it will be native 4K, fine with the outfits model - it is an option.

 

[Dereck]

Well they haven't ported Ninja Gaiden Black or NGB 2 to PC so they're trash in my eyes.

 

[MoxManiac]

I've been obessed with musou games since DW3, so I've always been a big fan of Koei. I don't think i've played a lot of Tecmo stuff.

 

[Aters]

My exposure to their output is extremely limited. I'd say I don't care about them for the most part.

 

[Fury451]

They make games I love, beach volleyball stuff aside.

 

[Bakercat]

I really liked the fist of the North Star game they put out last gen and I like what they did with the legend of Zelda, so I think they are pretty cool. I've never played a dynasty warrior game, but I've been thinking of trying one sometime.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

Never liked Koei Tecmo, they make generic and repetitive games. Most of the games they make are extremely uninspired, edgy and cliche for Japanese.
I also hated their logo, it just looks ugly to me. There's no taste in Koei whatsoever.

I don't know why, but as hardcore Japanese game lover, I absolutely hated them to the core.
I feel the same way about modern Activision too.

 

[Kresnik258]

What games are they not bringing over anymore? I would have been day 1 for Nobunaga's Ambition. And yeah they're a huge part of why I love my Vita.

In the past, they've skipped multiple Nobunaga's Ambition games as well as Nights of Azure. This year they've passed over Romance of the Three Kingdoms; Musou Stars and Blue Reflection. Likely Nights of Azure 2 too.

 

[Darkstorne]

I've been obessed with musou games since DW3, so I've always been a big fan of Koei. I don't think i've played a lot of Tecmo stuff.

Same, though I played since DW2. That game amazed me with what consoles were now capable of in terms of portraying battlefields, and I took the game manual into school to show my history teacher and ask if we would ever cover Ancient China. When he said we wouldn't, I went to my local bookstore and ordered in copies of the two Romance of the Three Kingdoms historical novels that the games are based on. That's how much of an impact the game made!

I adored 3 and 4 as well, played 5 but felt like the formula was getting stale by that point, and have been routinely underwhelmed and disappointed by every entry since. They never made a PS3 musou game that looked or played like a generational step up from the PS2 entries. I'm curious about the open world approach of their next entry for PS4, but after so many phoned in entries in a row I'm worried they're just slapping in an open world design out of desperation to shake things up, and not for any well thought out reasons that will drastically improve and evolve the game. I'm also worried it will still look a whole generation behind everything else visually.

I guess it's becoming a love/hate relationship.

 

[Kieli]

They need more time between Atelier. Yearly release is too frequent for this franchise, and probably contributes to the 30k sales (which isn't impressive).

 

[Prophaniti]

I love them! I buy every dynasty warrior game. That's saying a lot. Though I think their game pricing is off. Dynasty warriors 8 was 60 for waaaay longer than it ever should have been. Especially for a rererelease.

Also can we just streamline all the different but the same games?
Dynasty Warriors 9: The Samurai Warrior 4: Empires 5: Orochi 2.

 

[gfxtwin]

Ninja Gaiden 1-2 and Nioh are god tier. You've gotta wonder why they're holding off on porting (or remastering, remaking, etc) Ninja Gaiden 1-2 for current gen consoles and maybe PC.

 

[Polioliolio]

I play a Dynasty Warriors type of game once in a blue moon.. like once every 10 years. I'm playing this Berserk game, right? It had a decent discount on Steam for the summer sale. I'm blown away how mechanically frozen these games are. It's like the same game or worse than the Dynasty Warriors game I played in 2001.. At least that bad Hokuto no Ken game had crazy good music.

 

[Wesley-Sigma]

They are all right.

Team Ninja is a shell of its former self, but Nioh was a huge step up.

 

[Aselith]

Pretty good company if you are a pervert who wants to make anime girls dance for you

 

[catpurrcat]

i keep buying their games by chance.

they really love historical settings, as do i. they're also very good with art and 3d modeling.

they haven't abandoned making hardcore games, i can't thank them enough for that.

Nioh is a goty.

Nioh is fantastic.

Nioh is the only game I care about since they became a thing.

Gave me Nioh, my GOTY 2017.

Adding: they created Nioh. They are AAA+ devs for this gen.

 

[Jimrpg]

In the past, they've skipped multiple Nobunaga's Ambition games as well as Nights of Azure. This year they've passed over Romance of the Three Kingdoms; Musou Stars and Blue Reflection. Likely Nights of Azure 2 too.

Yeah would have been nice to get them, though I have to admit the Switch has probably taken a significant amount of attention away from the Vita and it wasn't like Vita software sales was all that great.

Same, though I played since DW2. That game amazed me with what consoles were now capable of in terms of portraying battlefields, and I took the game manual into school to show my history teacher and ask if we would ever cover Ancient China. When he said we wouldn't, I went to my local bookstore and ordered in copies of the two Romance of the Three Kingdoms historical novels that the games are based on. That's how much of an impact the game made!

I adored 3 and 4 as well, played 5 but felt like the formula was getting stale by that point, and have been routinely underwhelmed and disappointed by every entry since. They never made a PS3 musou game that looked or played like a generational step up from the PS2 entries. I'm curious about the open world approach of their next entry for PS4, but after so many phoned in entries in a row I'm worried they're just slapping in an open world design out of desperation to shake things up, and not for any well thought out reasons that will drastically improve and evolve the game. I'm also worried it will still look a whole generation behind everything else visually.

I guess it's becoming a love/hate relationship.

PS3 era KT where they made DW6, DW7 were significantly run worse as a company than they are now. I think they have finally got their shit together (PC ports remain to be seen but at least they have put their games on Steam unlike some other Japanese companies - Atlus?)

They need more time between Atelier. Yearly release is too frequent for this franchise, and probably contributes to the 30k sales (which isn't impressive).

I feel like people are starting to notice Atelier now particularly now that it's on Steam.

I love them! I buy every dynasty warrior game. That's saying a lot. Though I think their game pricing is off. Dynasty warriors 8 was 60 for waaaay longer than it ever should have been. Especially for a rererelease.

Also can we just streamline all the different but the same games?
Dynasty Warriors 9: The Samurai Warrior 4: Empires 5: Orochi 2.

LOL that's a lot of DW games, they must be up to 20 something by now?

I play a Dynasty Warriors type of game once in a blue moon.. like once every 10 years. I'm playing this Berserk game, right? It had a decent discount on Steam for the summer sale. I'm blown away how mechanically frozen these games are. It's like the same game or worse than the Dynasty Warriors game I played in 2001.. At least that bad Hokuto no Ken game had crazy good music.

Yeah I don't think it's so much about the mechanics. I had a friend who played DW religiously it was the only game they played. But they maxed every character, got every item, beat the entire game over and over. It's a grind game for people who like to grind. There is a stack of content even in the early games.

 

[Korigama]

Based on DoA5, they can't port to PC worth shit. The game has severe controller issues and doesn't support anything but TV resolutions without a 3rd party DLL mod. It's like the developers had literally never worked with PCs or something to so fundamentally misunderstand simple stuff like resolution handling.

Don't even get me started on the fuckin' DLC costume pricing.

I'd say the DLC costume prices are negligible if cherry picking occasional outfits limited to characters one actually plays, especially compared to SFV's prices (which go for twice as much per outfit). If set on buying all of them, though...yeah, shelling out for season passes is obscenely expensive, with some costumes only available if having paid for certain passes.

Can't say there's any excuse for their subpar PC efforts.

They are all right.

Team Ninja is a shell of its former self, but Nioh was a huge step up.

In respect to Ninja Gaiden, yeah. Otherwise (DoA), I'd say they're much better off.

 

[frogger]

I think they should either stop making the moushu games or considerably revise it's formula. They are really boring.

 

[RiderKairuu]

I usually find enjoyment in most of their games. I'm actually still playing Samurai Warriors 4 (my first time with the series) and I was surprised by how much it was scratching my Sengoku Basara itch.

 

[Jimrpg]

They are all right.

Team Ninja is a shell of its former self, but Nioh was a huge step up.

Team Ninja made a best in class action game in Nioh, they're back.

 

[Wesley-Sigma]

Team Ninja made a best in class action game in Nioh, they're back.

Nioh is an action RPG that lacks complexity compared to games that Team Ninja has made in the past.

 

[Jigorath]

They made Ninja Gaiden: Black.

They also made Ninja Gaiden 3.

So I dunno.

 

[lucebuce12]

If you seen foax3 their ass engine us even better. Hayashi is an ass man now

 

[KoeiTecmoAmerica]

For the fans that enjoy our games.

We appreciate the support and we hope that our future games are to your liking as well .

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

 

[Jimrpg]

For the fans that enjoy our games.

We appreciate the support and we hope that our future games are to your liking as well .

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

Hi KT!

I think you guys are doing a great job.

I loved Nioh and you can read my review on my blog after living and breathing the game for a solid 2 months - Nioh review

This is probably an impossible ask - but Vita fans are pretty disappointed games like Blue Reflection, Nights of Azure, Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms aren't coming to the west. Nobunaga's Ambition/RoTK would have been absolutely PERFECT on the Vita. Obviously the Switch has caused a bit of a shakeup in the handheld market but even a Vita digital version (at a reasonable price) would be something.

Regarding PC support, everybody just wants an unlocked framerate and resolution. I know you guys know it too and some things don't just happen with a flick of a switch, but with the growth of Steam and the success of many other titles that are day and date with console release like Nier:Automata or Resident Evil VII, it just makes a lot of sense to go PC/PS4 and make the same game across platforms. I'm just hoping DW9 is at least 60fps on PC if only to avoid the inevitable backlash that will surely come if its not. On the PS4 there doesn't seem to be that many open world games that are also 60fps, so I'm slightly concerned this will also be true of DW9 and therefore the same on PC. I hope its not, because I'd much rather people talk about the actual game than focusing on some technical thing.

One final thing would be to continue to keep releasing your past catalogue of titles such as the earlier Atelier titles like Atelier Ayesha/Escha&Logy/Shallie Plus on Steam, as well as things like Winning Post and DOAX3 (you know the VR community will totally dig it).

 

[Luigiv]

I think they should port Ninja Gaiden Black to PC. Unfortunately we'll never get it as long as Sigma exists.

 

[massoluk]

I always say they should really start making Dynasty Warriors set in other Chinese historical period.

Foundings of Tang Dynasty, Han Dynasty, or even Zhou are way more epic than Three Kingdoms.

 

[Steel]

Meh. I mean, I don't hate them persay. Their DLC practices are as bad as anyone. Their games have been reasonably consistent over the years. They have a few games I like, but they're not best in class.

So, meh.

 

[Ascheroth]

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

Good luck and that's much appreciated. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be having such a clueless and stubborn japanese management.

And yeah, don't forget about your back-catalog

 

[Chairmanchuck]

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

That would be nice. The strange thing to us is that e.g. the Atelier Sophie port is better than Firis or that some Musou games are good ports, some are not that good.
I havent played Toukiden, Berserk or Sanada yet though.
I enjoy K-T games a lot, so thats why its a bit sad that some ports are good, some arent.

So keep up the fight.

Btw. do you maybe know the reason why every K-T game that I played after Toukiden 1 (where you had to manually change to W7 mode to avoid crashes) is now starting in W7 compatibility mode? I dont know any other dev/publisher who does that.

 

[Jimrpg]

I think they should port Ninja Gaiden Black to PC. Unfortunately we'll never get it as long as Sigma exists.

YES!

Meh. I mean, I don't hate them persay. Their DLC practices are as bad as anyone. Their games have been reasonably consistent over the years. They have a few games I like, but they're not best in class.

So, meh.

Their DLC has been reasonable I think. Unless you're a whale you're not going to buy all the costumes on DOA5 or DOAX3. The base game comes with plenty of stuff to unlock as it is.

Nioh's DLC has been good, many people over in the OT think its good value.

Good luck and that's much appreciated. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be having such a clueless and stubborn japanese management.

And yeah, don't forget about your back-catalog

I don't think they're cluesless and stubborn. I think they know. They're just not willing to put the money down for better ports given expected sales. At the end of the day its just a business for them.

Take Way of the Samurai for example, WotS 4 sold 60,000 copies, WotS 3 sold 15,000 on Steam and people were asking for unlocked framerates and resolutions and the port dev responded by saying it would take extensive rework of the whole game which probably wasn't going to happen for a niche game with low expected sales.

Well I don't really know to be honest, but that's my take on it.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I don't think they're cluesless and stubborn. I think they know. They're just not willing to put the money down for better ports given expected sales. At the end of the day its just a business for them.

Take Way of the Samurai for example, WotS 4 sold 60,000 copies, WotS 3 sold 15,000 on Steam and people were asking for unlocked framerates and resolutions and the port dev responded by saying it would take extensive rework of the whole game which probably wasn't going to happen for a niche game with low expected sales.

The framerate would be a problem, since WoTS3 animations are locked to 30fps afaik, so you need to rework those whole.

The resolution shouldnt be a problem at all though. I mean look at K-T games. Some offer unlocked resolutions (like Arsland), some dont (be default) and you have to edit the ini to play in 4K.

 

[Steel]

Their DLC has been reasonable I think. Unless you're a whale you're not going to buy all the costumes on DOA5 or DOAX3. The base game comes with plenty of stuff to unlock as it is.

Nioh's DLC has been good, many people over in the OT think its good value.

As I said, their dlc practices are as bad as anyone. That's not to say they're the worst, just they're in the average of AAA studios. Costumes for Dynasty Warriors games are stupid expensive for little content, then they release the Plus versions of games that have content that you can't simply get in the base game, stuff like that.

 

[Cow Mengde]

For the fans that enjoy our games.

We appreciate the support and we hope that our future games are to your liking as well .

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

How about Koei getting back to making some strategy games, heh? I mean, yeah you still make Nobunaga and ROTK, but what about amazingly unique games like Aerobiz, Uncharted Waters, Legend of Cao Cao/Kongming, and tons of other games? I want more of those, not another freakin' Dynasty Warriors.

 

[Jimrpg]

The framerate would be a problem, since WoTS3 animations are locked to 30fps afaik, so you need to rework those whole.

The resolution shouldnt be a problem at all though. I mean look at K-T games. Some offer unlocked resolutions (like Arsland), some dont (be default) and you have to edit the ini to play in 4K.

Well WoTS weren't very good ports in general. I was just trying to pick an example of a port that had low sales.

The fact that someone from the community can fix it in 30 minutes is kinda embarassing.

As I said, their dlc practices are as bad as anyone. That's not to say they're the worst, just they're in the average of AAA studios. Costumes for Dynasty Warriors games are stupid expensive for little content, then they release the Plus versions of games that have content that you can't simply get in the base game, stuff like that.

Well I see what you're saying, though i'm ok if they want to price some things high and have people who can afford to pay more line their pockets, as long as we don't get into a situation like Paradox where we're starting to ship base games that are literally 50% of the game or less, then I'll start getting mad then.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Well WoTS weren't very good ports in general. I was just trying to pick an example of a port that had low sales.

Having been in the beta for WoTS4 the reason is that almost everything had to be rewritten. The original code was a mess afaik.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The Tecmo side has historically been pretty good (predominantly via Team Ninja). The Koei side is not really to my tastes. They're a decent publisher overall, who I would like to see grow with quality software that has global appeal, like Namco Bandai have.

 

[Kresnik258]

For the fans that enjoy our games.

We appreciate the support and we hope that our future games are to your liking as well .

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

Can you fight for bringing across Blue Reflection & Warriors All-Stars on Vita since they already exist and are being translated for other platforms?

 

[Ascheroth]

I don't think they're cluesless and stubborn. I think they know. They're just not willing to put the money down for better ports given expected sales. At the end of the day its just a business for them.

Take Way of the Samurai for example, WotS 4 sold 60,000 copies, WotS 3 sold 15,000 on Steam and people were asking for unlocked framerates and resolutions and the port dev responded by saying it would take extensive rework of the whole game which probably wasn't going to happen for a niche game with low expected sales.

Well I don't really know to be honest, but that's my take on it.

It's kind of self-fulfilling prophecy tho. Do you know why their games have such low expected sales? Because at this point KT are basically synonymous for subpar ports for high prices with little to no post-launch support on PC, to put it lightly. They are basically a joke on PC and if you look at SteamSpy you can see that sales fall off a cliff after the first few games they released, except for games with brand power like AoT.

Even their better ports have idiotic problems.
Atelier Sophie runs at arbitrary resolutions and 60fps. It has great performance too.
But then you realize some of the assets, like the menus and all the 2D assets, are lower-res then the PS4 version. I think some environmental assets are worse too.
That shit is just ridiculous and it apparently happens to many of their ports in some way or another. I'm really curious how a port of a PS4-only game would turn out, but the sad thing is that I have so little confidence in them that I fully expect them to still get some lower-res assets in there somehow or fuck something else up.

 

[GhostTrick]

For the fans that enjoy our games.

We appreciate the support and we hope that our future games are to your liking as well .

For the PC gamers.
I'm fighting for better PC support. As long as I'm here I'll be pushing for better PC ports. Going to be a long battle though.

It shouldn't be a long battle though. KT ports aren't inherently broken, that'd be like a 10 hours work at most.
Shit performance is because of bad GPU usage, likely because of broken vsync implementation.
Lack of arbitrary resolution is an easy thing to fix. Heck, some KT PC ports support these. The people responsible for these ports should really understand that not only it should be easy to fix, but on top of that, they'd have a lot more sales. PC port sales are getting weaker and weaker because KT games carry such a terrible rep for PC ports that could be fixed by one guy.

 

[Ascheroth]

It shouldn't be a long battle though. KT ports aren't inherently broken, that'd be like a 10 hours work at most.
Shit performance is because of bad GPU usage, likely because of broken vsync implementation.
Lack of arbitrary resolution is an easy thing to fix. Heck, some KT PC ports support these. The people responsible for these ports should really understand that not only it should be easy to fix, but on top of that, they'd have a lot more sales. PC port sales are getting weaker and weaker because KT games carry such a terrible rep for PC ports that could be fixed by one guy.

I think he means it will be a long battle to convince japanese management or the devs that some things are important.

But yeah, they aren't really missing all that much, which makes the whole thing even more frustrating :/

 

[GhostTrick]

I think he means it will be a long battle to convince japanese management or the devs that some things are important.

But yeah, they aren't really missing all that much, which makes the whole thing even more frustrating :/

Yeah, that's what I got as well. I mean, it's more about convincing japanese management.