cosmicblizzard
Banned
You watch any of the recent movies? Nami's got some ridiculous bounce going on.
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What would it take for JRPGs to be popular in the west again? Is it even possible?
- Thread starter BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
- Start date
You watch any of the recent movies? Nami's got some ridiculous bounce going on.
No. Where'd you get the idea that was what turned me off of Gundam? All I said was that Gundam 00 had moe-bait. It doesn't matter if it's two minutes or two hours, it's still moe-bait.
What about Jojo's Bizarre Adventure?
zeopower6
Member
Isn't there some kind of One Piece mermaid character with giant bazongas?
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I could be wrong, but while that's been a property with some damn long legs, I don't think it's exploded the way Madoka did.
Clairvoyance
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=55855900&postcount=8092
Or some of the absurd boob shots of Robin in the last arc.
Black Door
Banned
Punching "2010-2013 anime shows" in google=no life?
I think making JRPGs more action-oriented and tightly story-focused is important.
Also, I believe a huge innovation needs to occur that would forever change the JRPG image. For offline, single player RPGs, I think they can safely kill off the level grinding process. It just adds relative tedium in a gaming landscape that is getting faster and more precise in providing fun experiences.
Also, I believe a huge innovation needs to occur that would forever change the JRPG image. For offline, single player RPGs, I think they can safely kill off the level grinding process. It just adds relative tedium in a gaming landscape that is getting faster and more precise in providing fun experiences.
Clairvoyance
Member
He's too busy. I mean it's not like One Piece is the length of 50 normal length animes combined or anything.
I know. I was talking about some of the shots of Robin during the FIshman island arc when she was talking about the ancient weapons.
Clairvoyance
Member
.
Romars202129
Member
I don't think I have that good of a life, but I don't think it would be improved by watching more anime.
Most popular RPG in the world has these things.
Well there goes the children.
Less moe pandering,
well there goes japan
the last thing is an actual thing that could help.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
This is also true.
Sword Art Online and Attack on Titan are also pretty explosive properties, and neither are moe-focused (well, I guess a case could be made for SAO to some extent).
I just finished watching Fate/Zero...anyone who laments the state of anime nowadays (not that it's in a bad state or anything) ought to watch it. Great and well-written story and characters, no moe crap. Plus it's a seinen if that helps.
Tevious
Member
Personally, I'm just sick of the anime art styles and boring cut-scenes with just avatars and text. The market is flooded with those kinds of JRPGs.
And then Final Fantasy just keeps dumbing things down as far as gameplay is concerned. I would love to see a return to 5 party members in battle (that you control) and needing to use actual strategy to win most fights.
They could all use better writing too. You can forgive a lot of faults in a game if the story is truly compelling.
And then Final Fantasy just keeps dumbing things down as far as gameplay is concerned. I would love to see a return to 5 party members in battle (that you control) and needing to use actual strategy to win most fights.
They could all use better writing too. You can forgive a lot of faults in a game if the story is truly compelling.
Adults read trashy romance novels. I'm pretty sure Mass Effect is aimed at adults and teenagers. Also, what other WRPGs like it? You've got Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Maybe the first Witcher. That's it. It's like using Hyperdimension Neptunia as a standard JRPG.
TBH, I don't think the issue is targeting children; Pokemon does just fine targeting children. The issue is targeting a niche adult audience that already buys JRPGs without expanding said audience. Children aren't buying Xenoblade, JRPG fans are buying Xenoblade. Only a few series like Dark Souls and Persona have really burst out of that "JRPGs made for JRPG fans" bubble.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Everyone that think all JRPG's are full of moe and pandering should play SMT4
oh wait it's on a handheld so I'm sure it sucks
oh wait it's on a handheld so I'm sure it sucks
Black Door
Banned
Final Fantasy IV had strategy?
Romars202129
Member
The guy who hates One Piece knows more about it than me.
I don't watch the movies, but still, at least Nami and Robin look like adults. And they're so deformed it that artstyle, its hard to take seriously. Her 'sexiness', is just a means for Sanji to act like a dork, lol.
I don't know, that makes it a lot more stomachable in my oppinion.
I remember those being concurrent.
The golden age refers to creative output, and as subjective as that might be I choose to agree with it. We haven't had another period of standards being set, not only in JRPG-dom but really gaming as a whole. It's a smattering of tiny innovations, incremental steps forward since big studios began to flounder and play things safer than ever before.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
lol, you need to watch the most recent movie.
FateBreaker
Member
Because some of us would have liked to have seen SMT on PS3 or Xbox 360.
Tevious
Member
Not Easy Type. The DS version was pretty difficult, but fun, despite the chibi-ish art style everyone hates.
Tenshi
Banned
So basically GAF wants JRPG's to become western RPG copies. You guys don't like the art, you don't like the target audience (which isn't you to begin with), and you don't like the mechanics.
Sadly, aside from Square-Enix I can't think of a JRPG developer with a large enough budget to warrant Witcher 2 style shit that so many of you seem to crave.
And personally, the Neptunia series is one of my favorite. It get's bashed a lot for it's immature humor and all that, but NISA ADDS A LOT OF THAT CRAP ON THEIR OWN. Seriously, if you can read Japanese, import the JP versions and you see a lot of dialogue differences. NISA add's a lot of perverted stuff where it shouldn't be.
But seriously, so far this has been a "shit on anime/JP culture" thread. So meh, I'll probably just get laughed at anyways.
Anyways, you all suck. >_>
Long live JRPG's as they are! 
Sadly, aside from Square-Enix I can't think of a JRPG developer with a large enough budget to warrant Witcher 2 style shit that so many of you seem to crave.
And personally, the Neptunia series is one of my favorite. It get's bashed a lot for it's immature humor and all that, but NISA ADDS A LOT OF THAT CRAP ON THEIR OWN. Seriously, if you can read Japanese, import the JP versions and you see a lot of dialogue differences. NISA add's a lot of perverted stuff where it shouldn't be.
But seriously, so far this has been a "shit on anime/JP culture" thread. So meh, I'll probably just get laughed at anyways.
Anyways, you all suck. >_>
But I still love you.
This. And most of the ideas to change them in order to appeal to the west would probably destroy what the people that do like the genre enjoy so much about it.
Romars202129
Member
So, now they look like kids, and are oversexualized? But doesn't that just prove my point? The moe is out of control.
I thought that law they passed would put a cap on it.
Clairvoyance
Member
This may surprise you, but just because I don't think think One Piece is an amazing anime (especially the last few arcs) doesn't mean I hate it.
I personally don't know any adults with breasts the size of their head, nor do I know any adults who behave like Nami.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
† Tenshi †;72472526 said:So basically GAF wants JRPG's to become western RPG copies. You guys don't like the art, you don't like the target audience (which isn't you to begin with), and you don't like the mechanics.
Sadly, aside from Square-Enix I can't think of a JRPG developer with a large enough budget to warrant Witcher 2 style shit that so many of you seem to crave.
And personally, the Neptunia series is one of my favorite. It get's bashed a lot for it's immature humor and all that, but NISA ADDS A LOT OF THAT CRAP ON THEIR OWN. Seriously, if you can read Japanese, import the JP versions and you see a lot of dialogue differences. NISA add's a lot of perverted stuff where it shouldn't be.
But seriously, so far this has been a "shit on anime/JP culture" thread. So meh, I'll probably just get laughed at anyways.
Anyways, you all suck. >_>Long live JRPG's as they are!But I still love you.
Pretty much this, I would stop playing JRPG's(my favorite games) if they changed like most in this thread want them to change.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
† Tenshi †;72472526 said:
This is the only thing I really like about JRPGs. I also don't find anime art styles offensive in general sans stuff like Neptunia, but modern anime art does look pretty blah for the most part. It's so sterile and lacks life.
It's also annoying that there's this implication that JRPG fan = anime fan. I don't watch anime, I couldn't care less about it.
chicagocubsfan
Member
Ni No Kuni did pretty well in the West despite not selling well in Japan.
No, WRPG's aren't aimed at grown ups, they're instead designed to have broad appeal to many demographics. This means that, some elements end up deep, some end up Juvenile.
I don't mind when JRPG's are trying to capture teens. However, I think they'd be smart to put in elements of the story that adults could enjoy as well. This means a story less reliant on tropes, and more thoughtful in its narration. There's nothing preventing them from throwing juvinile elements in there as well, but adult gamers need something to latch onto.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Ha... Saw the title of this thread and new I'd walk into a childish fight between condescending JRPG enthusiasts, and ignorant gamers, who think all JRPGs are moe. So much butthurt and ad hominem use in just under 5 pages, it's embarrassing. Good job, guys.
On Topic: As stated by many people before me, the prevalence of JRPGs in the west is being heavily skewed by the (former) popularity of Final Fantasy, and other SE titles. Only over this past generation did we see a dip in the Final Fantasy output, due to the disaster that was FFXIV, and Toriyama's FFXIII trilogy that read like a teenage boy's anime fanfic. Western expectations of JRPG's hinge on FF's performance. And with FFXIII being the lowest rated mainline title in recent memory, it's no wonder, why western gamers tend to believe that JRPGs are dying.
There's also the fact that Japanese developers in general have moved on to handheld gaming, in order to chase the Japanese market. Obviously, handheld culture is not as big as main consoles, out in the west. Since most quality RPGs have been appearing on handhelds lately, to the average US gamer, who is only familiar with Final Fantasy, and perhaps wants to explore other JRPGs on home consoles, there's not many solid options.
However, fear not WesternGaf, I feel that console JRPGs and console Japanese titles in general are going to reemerge in the coming years. Now that Japanese devs are finally getting a knack for HD developement, and titles like Final Fantasy XV, Darks Souls 2, Sony's 2 JRPGS, X, and Kingdom Hearts 3 are all being developed, I hope we can enjoy another period of strong JPRG gaming on home consoles.
On Topic: As stated by many people before me, the prevalence of JRPGs in the west is being heavily skewed by the (former) popularity of Final Fantasy, and other SE titles. Only over this past generation did we see a dip in the Final Fantasy output, due to the disaster that was FFXIV, and Toriyama's FFXIII trilogy that read like a teenage boy's anime fanfic. Western expectations of JRPG's hinge on FF's performance. And with FFXIII being the lowest rated mainline title in recent memory, it's no wonder, why western gamers tend to believe that JRPGs are dying.
There's also the fact that Japanese developers in general have moved on to handheld gaming, in order to chase the Japanese market. Obviously, handheld culture is not as big as main consoles, out in the west. Since most quality RPGs have been appearing on handhelds lately, to the average US gamer, who is only familiar with Final Fantasy, and perhaps wants to explore other JRPGs on home consoles, there's not many solid options.
However, fear not WesternGaf, I feel that console JRPGs and console Japanese titles in general are going to reemerge in the coming years. Now that Japanese devs are finally getting a knack for HD developement, and titles like Final Fantasy XV, Darks Souls 2, Sony's 2 JRPGS, X, and Kingdom Hearts 3 are all being developed, I hope we can enjoy another period of strong JPRG gaming on home consoles.
Hey, all that stuff is still around. There's cute girls in giant robots, cute girls existential stuff, cute girl sci-fi, cute girl fantasy, cute girl action, cute girl sports...
maplelord93
Banned
A well made (and marketed) Final Fantasy title could pave the way for that.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
great post, I also believe that the combo of Kingdom Hearts 3, FFXV, Persona 5, Dark Souls 2, and X could reignite some of the JRPG love in the west. But in the end most of the Japanese input will be on handhelds, which has been glorious imo.
zeopower6
Member
It helps that it was a pretty big light novel for a while with Urobuchi behind it. While there's no moe, the whole Fate/stay night eroge thing... eh.... lolol.
The avatar cutscenes allow for more fleshing out of the characters and world imo. Do you want more in-engine cutscenes or something? I loooove the skits in Tales of games. They're even fully voiced now!
It's so sad since there was an SMT title planned when the PS3 came out...
The Vita also had one.... but there's still hope for that... I think.It definitely sold more than it did in Japan, but I think the Japan + US numbers are under 250k-300k which is still pretty meh for a project of its size.
Tenshi
Banned
Exactly. I feel the same. If all my JRPG's started to play like Elder Scrolls/Witcher/Mass Effect etc... I'd be super mad. JRPG's are my favorite genre because they are what they are and if that changed ... ugh. IT'S BAD ENOUGH EVERY SINGLE FPS OUT THERE ALREADY FEELS THE SAME. Now you people want RPG's to be the same way?
Fuck that.
Anime hasn't changed that much at all.
I should know, I've seen hundreds of series over the course of my life.
The first step would be production values commensurate with today's AAA games. It's the only reason that FF is even in the running at all anymore.
The problem with this, of course, is that you can't make a game with a AAA budget if it isn't selling AAA units. It's a chicken and egg problem; you first need to sell tons of units to get the AAA budget, but you need the AAA budget to sell tons of units.
Therefore I think the odds of breaking out of this cycle are incredibly slim. It's also why many other genres have fallen out of favor and why the genre choices in console gaming have seemed tp narrow so significantly over time. Everything from Point and Click Adventures to JRPGs, from SHMUPs to SRPGs have all fallen out of favor because they don't sell enough to justify AAA production costs and you can't increase your sales without having those AAA production costs in the first place.
On consoles, at least. These problems are less significant on PC and other platforms, but the consoles have become extremely top heavy and it makes it very hard for any genre that can't reliably sell 4M+ to even be made in to a full fledged title at all.
The problem with this, of course, is that you can't make a game with a AAA budget if it isn't selling AAA units. It's a chicken and egg problem; you first need to sell tons of units to get the AAA budget, but you need the AAA budget to sell tons of units.
Therefore I think the odds of breaking out of this cycle are incredibly slim. It's also why many other genres have fallen out of favor and why the genre choices in console gaming have seemed tp narrow so significantly over time. Everything from Point and Click Adventures to JRPGs, from SHMUPs to SRPGs have all fallen out of favor because they don't sell enough to justify AAA production costs and you can't increase your sales without having those AAA production costs in the first place.
On consoles, at least. These problems are less significant on PC and other platforms, but the consoles have become extremely top heavy and it makes it very hard for any genre that can't reliably sell 4M+ to even be made in to a full fledged title at all.
I don't think any of the games you listed save Final Fantasy will do impressive numbers, much less ignite broad interest in JRPGs. And I still think P5 is going handheld, just because it would be most cost effective.
Romars202129
Member
What exactly is your point? I mean, personally, I think there is a difference between ridiculous figured women and upskirt shots of preteens, but that's not the issue.
I just said One Piece was one of the few clean ones. If it's not, that just means there's one less clean one than I thought.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
That's a really important point, JRPG's by nature are HUGE so their budget needs to be huge for a HD game, that's why we got the linear mess that FF13 was.
The idea that handheld games are in any way inferior to their console counterparts needs to go away, SMT4 proves it beautifully.
NavyPharaoh
Member
I thought about this before as I can no longer play jrpgs. To make jrpgs "successful" as the thread asks can ONLY happen by NOT making them Jrpgs anymore.
Has anyone noticed as story becomes more important in games Japan's hold on the gaming industry has lessened? Why? Cultural difference.
The most important thing about an rpg is it story. Do we see a lot of foreign theatrical releases n the US? No because a lot of the plots wouldnt make p sense. Not ever word n the english language has a perfect synonym in another language. That's ignoring things like mannerisms, gender roles etc....
Asking them to change what they are isnt A viable solution because u cant b something you're not!
Everything isn't for everybody & just like some people think jrpgs need fixing a lot of people probably think they're fine. The fact that the OP listed more than a few games excelling in a genre is great because like any other genre u get diamonds & u get shit... u get more shit than diamonds
Has anyone noticed as story becomes more important in games Japan's hold on the gaming industry has lessened? Why? Cultural difference.
The most important thing about an rpg is it story. Do we see a lot of foreign theatrical releases n the US? No because a lot of the plots wouldnt make p sense. Not ever word n the english language has a perfect synonym in another language. That's ignoring things like mannerisms, gender roles etc....
Asking them to change what they are isnt A viable solution because u cant b something you're not!
Everything isn't for everybody & just like some people think jrpgs need fixing a lot of people probably think they're fine. The fact that the OP listed more than a few games excelling in a genre is great because like any other genre u get diamonds & u get shit... u get more shit than diamonds
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I think Dark Souls 2, Kingdom Hearts 3, and Persona 5(less than the others) have a lot of chances to be a mainstream hit.
Marketing. The reason why they don't sell is because many of them hardly toss their name out. Pokemon sold because of Nintendo's aggressive ad campaigns. Toy stores were lined with Pokemon merchandise, and who can forget the anime series? They don't have to go all out like Nintendo did, but people won't buy if they don't know you're selling.
Romars202129
Member
Dark Souls is pretty much a mainstream hit already, in my oppinion. Or at least an up and comer.
I can see KH doing it. Persona has no chance, especially since it's going to come to a current gen console next year at the earliest and the next gen consoles aren't going to be backwards compatible, and Dark Souls... eh. It has a rabid fanbase but limited penetration beyond that. I don't think a lot of people who didn't play Dark Souls or Demon's Souls are going to be interested in this new outing.
Pokemon Red and Green got big in Japan thanks to the secret 151st Pokemon capturing people's imaginations. The huge cross promotion definitely helped in the rest of the world though. Devs have to either have smart marketing or a lot of money to produce a mainstream hit, and I don't see many companies outside of Nintendo or SE being able to manage it.
I think Ninty will care for it i mean they have been showing it off every time and i wouldnt be surprised if we get a close launch
Tenshi
Banned
Pokemon's most powerful marketing tool was word of mouth. I remember in elementary school, not a day went by when we weren't all setting up trades and battles at lunch and recess lol. In those days, everybody knew what pokemon was and everybody was playing it. In 3rd grade I remember trading somebody some GBA games for a copy of Pokemon Yellow just so I could have Pikachu follow me everywhere.
... nowadays, I can't be bothered to waste my time with Pokemon. I totally fell out of love with it.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I do wonder how Persona 5 will do because I think it will be a PS3 game coming out in late 2014 or 2015.
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