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Why isn't David Davis (MP) trying to kiss Diane Abbott (MP) being labeled harassment?

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Beefy

Member
Context to the story:

Brexit secretary David Davis tried to kiss Diane Abbott in a House of Commons bar last night, so she told him to “f**k off”.

The incident reportedly occurred in Strangers’ Bar, a popular watering hole for MPs in the House of Commons.


Mr Davis was seen by journalists leaning in for a kiss after the Article 50 vote, but the Shadow Home Secretary recoiled.

He reportedly “walked off laughing”.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-david-davis-leans-kiss-9784705

To me this is harassment and the Davis should be made to apologies at the very least. But if we take a look at the paper headlines all are about Abbott saying fuck off and not Davis?



Independant:


Evening Standard:

[BDiane Abbott unleashes four-letter volley after 'kiss' by Brexit Secretary David Davis][/B]
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-by-brexit-minister-david-davis-a3462541.html

The Sun:

[BBREXIT NOT SEALED WITH A KISS Diane Abbott tells David Davis to ‘f*** off’ for trying to kiss her in Commons bar after she helped trigger Brexit by voting for the Brexit bill][/B]
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28224...trigger-brexit-by-voting-for-the-brexit-bill/

Huffington Post:
[BDiane Abbott Told Brexit Secretary David Davis 'To Fuck Off' After He Congratulated Her For Backing Brexit][/B] http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...mons-kiss-embrace_uk_589c5d00e4b07685621833d9

And many more.

It just seems to me this has just been ' laughed off' by many, when I feel it shouldn't.

Edit:

Simply

Dianne Abbott is opposed to leaving the EU, but voted in favour because that was Labour Party policy. In order to rub as much salt as possible into the wound, an MP who she normally wouldn't touch with a fifty foot barge pool tried to kiss her.

It's harassment. He'd be fired in a normal job.


Stephen Bush's take on it:

So why aren’t the headlines “Secretary of State attempts to humiliate woman”, or “Secretary of the State tries to kiss woman without her consent”, “Brexit minister under pressure to apologise to MP”, or some variant thereof? These aren’t behaviours that would be viewed anything other than dimly in any other workplace. Why is the focus on Abbott telling Davis to “fuck off” and not on his behaviour?

These are rhetorical questions, of course. We all know why.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/02/why-diane-abbott-was-right-tell-david-davis-f
 

Nester99

Member
Trying to kiss someone is not harassment.
If he was rejected then Kept trying then we are getting into harrasment
 

liquidtmd

Banned
A light kiss on the cheek is sometimes socially acceptable as a 'hello-goodbye' or an act of apology.

Depends very much on the conversation they were having as context.

As is, he tried it, she told him to fuck off, he accepted that and walked away. I don't see the harassment. If he'd persisted for more than a few seconds, sure.
 

SKINNER!

Banned
220px-David_Davis_2016.jpg


Tory sleazeball.
 

slider

Member
There's probably some nuance to the context that I'm missing. I mean, they're from opposition parties and this was in the immediate aftermath of the Article 50 vote.
 

Jezbollah

Member
I'm wondering if Davis was taking great comfort that she had miraculously recovered from her crippling migraine..
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Trying to kiss some one that doesn't want to be kissed is harassment.

I hug some of my work colleagues when I'm not going to see them in a while, sometimes they hug me or I hug them. Context is key. If I went to hug someone and they declined, I'd stop and think no more of it.

If they turned round, said fuck off and claim I was harassing them on those grounds I'd be a bit miffed but again so much is missing context wise as to what he and she were doing before he tried to kiss in this case so it's hard to say either way.
 

SomTervo

Member
Trying to kiss someone is not harassment.

In the workplace and with colleagues it is. This is no place for that. These people are politicians. Professionals. (Apparently.)

I hug some of my work colleagues when I'm not going to see them in a while. If I went to hug someone and they declined, I'd stop and think no more of it.

If they turned round, said fuck off and claim I was harassing them on those grounds I'd be a bit miffed but again so much is missing context wise as to what he and she were doing before he tried to kiss in this case so it's hard to say either way.

We don't really know the details but the source suggests it was a proper on-the-lips kiss.

That's a galaxy away from a hug.
 

Maledict

Member
There's probably some nuance to the context that I'm missing. I mean, they're from opposition parties and this was in the immediate aftermath of the Article 50 vote.

Dianne Abbott is opposed to leaving the EU, but voted in favour because that was Labour Party policy. In order to rub as much salt as possible into the wound, an MP who she normally wouldn't touch with a fifty foot barge pool tried to kiss her.

It's harassment. He'd be fired in a normal job.
 

Jezbollah

Member
The more I read about it the more I can't believe this horrific incident isn't front page headline news everywhere we look. Shocking.
 

slider

Member
Dianne Abbott is opposed to leaving the EU, but voted in favour because that was Labour Party policy. In order to rub as much salt as possible into the wound, an MP who she normally wouldn't touch with a fifty foot barge pool tried to kiss her.

It's harassment. He'd be fired in a normal job.

Thanks Maledict. I hoped someone from UK / Brexit / Poligaf would sum it up neatly for those unsighted on the issues at play.
 

slider

Member
It doesn't really sound like she needs standing up for here though.

I've interpreted it differently. He walked off laughing, so I'd say he got a reaction he was pleased with and the kiss was a tool in that play. Just because she swore doesn't mean she came out on top.
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Seems pretty damn unprofessional but unless he was forcing himself on her or was repeatedly trying to kiss her after rejection then I wouldn't call it harassment.
 

MudoSkills

Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
The media, and to be fair a lot of the public, hate Diane Abbot, whereas Davis is the kind of Diet Nigel Farage whose attitude we just legitimised by voting to leave the EU.

A little disappointing but in no way a surprise that the media would take this angle.
 
He did it to humiliate her.

CONTEXT.

Yeah, he was trying to take the piss and wind her up. This wouldn't be enough on its own to get someone fired from most jobs, but he'd definitely get a slap on the wrist and an apology would be expected if someone put in a complaint.
 

Playsage

Member
It's common use in european countries to exchange kisses on cheeks as a form of greetings, afaik.

He probably went to "greet" her just for taunting.
 

Alienfan

Member
It's not harassment? He attempted to kiss her, she backed away, and he stopped. Unless it wasn't a kiss on the cheek

EDIT:

Missed the bottom piece of context in the OP. I'm still not sure if it would fall under harassment or not, but it seems pretty messed up
 

Beefy

Member
Perhaps not but to say its harassment does quite a disservice to those that suffer genuine harassment

There are many forms of harassment. From the unwanted kiss or touch to the more disgusting stuff (like I have suffered myself), but all are types of harassment.
 
Getting rejected by a woman is humiliating for the woman??

All those women i've humiliated...

Are you purposefully being dense or what?

I'm not the biggest fan of hers but the racist and sexist abuse she gets all over twitter and by fellow politicians is vile.
 
A woman I worked with was going on holiday. She was doing a hand over on shift, she hugged me and said to look after myself.

It's not harassment and yes, it was purely platonic
I honestly dont know if you are being serious or not but there is a massive difference from what happened with you to what is being described in the OP.

Of course we need to know the context of the incident, such as was it playful banter between the two and so the act was expected to get shot down when he attempted it or was it him trying to genuinely force a kiss on her. Maybe she will come out and say 'he was just joking around and i playfully told him to fuck off' but it may come out that they dont have any sort of established relationship that would allow someone to go for a kiss for a laugh.

I dont know much about either person so i cant say for certain but im assuming that Diane doesnt have that sort of relationship with David and as such this would be harassment plain and simple.

Regardless of the truth, i find the outrage from some here about the fallout from him attempting this funny. When genuine acts of sexual harassment are brought up you always have a few that will try to defend the behaviour saying the person was just joking or being friendly or they do that themselves and no one complains or worst of all 'how are you meant to pick up women these days?! Damn PC culture'.

On the topic of downplaying sexual harassment, I know someone who recently was sexually harassed at work and they have had to deal with this sort of apologist shit. A colleague who she was friends with recently was clearly trying to push the relationship into something more (even though she is happily married) joked that "Maybe me and some friends will have to get you in a van and teach you a lesson", basically joking that him and his friends would kidnap and gang rape her.

After sitting on this for just over a week, not sure what to do she decided to speak to her manager about it for not only fear that one day he might actually do it but for other women on the team. The manager (a woman) tried to downplay it and then asked her to talk to him about her problems. She reluctantly agreed (to help the team out) and spoke to him and he apologised and said all the right words about how he iddnt mean it and would change how he spoke to people.

After this she spoke to a friend in HR who told her that he had also harassed her and then about a week later an agency temp quit and told the agency that he was sexually harassing her (after my friend spoke to him). Because of a third party getting involved the company was forced to bring the subject up to him, telling him that my friend had complained resulting in him playing the victim, crying and then clearly taking it out on my friend.

This caused my friends anxiety and pre-existing medical conditions to flare up badly and the manager then told her she was over reacting and he said worse to her and he didnt really mean it. When my friend tried to reiterate the effect it was having on her the manager said that she had a duty of care for all the staff which apparently meant going to lunch with him and telling my friend she was over reacting. My friend booked a doctors appointment and after hearing what was happening he immediately signed her off from work for 2 weeks.
 
I've interpreted it differently. He walked off laughing, so I'd say he got a reaction he was pleased with and the kiss was a tool in that play. Just because she swore doesn't mean she came out on top.

I don't think it's important who "came out on top" (and frankly shame on you for making me use that phrase with reference to either David Davis OR Dianne Abbot)
 
There are many forms of harassment. From the unwanted kiss or touch to the more disgusting stuff (like I have suffered myself), but all are types of harassment.

A kiss is a kiss as many have pointed out its a common greeting, I've been kissed by friends, acquaintences, people even people i don't really like (who sometimes i probably would have prefered hadnt) , she obviously didn't want to and told him so
 
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