Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
And it's exactly what makes all the "clarifications" feel like bullshit. That isn't an image you get from straight up googling "cowboys", that's making 100% sure you pick the gay cowboy movie.
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Why was there backlash for DmC Dante? He was just as good.
- Thread starter ZombiePlatypus
- Start date
And it's exactly what makes all the "clarifications" feel like bullshit. That isn't an image you get from straight up googling "cowboys", that's making 100% sure you pick the gay cowboy movie.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No it really wouldn't. I swear people must have played a game where Dante curses way more than the version I played.
Nah the pizza scene was supposed to be super serious and edgy. The game is always serious.
At this point the people claiming it's homophobic when we have a video of the exact picture where the art director directly states his intentions seems more like they're projecting.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
New ground will surely be covered in this DmC vs DMC thread
Zomba13
Member
"subtle" in sneer quote. Because it's more subtle when compared to DmC Dante who is explicit in his way. New Dante says "Fuck you!" Old Dante says "Flock off featherface". It's less edgy, it's more silly.
Edgy is trying to be cool and mature and dark and serious. Saying things like "Fuck you!" is more edgy than "Flock off" even though they are pretty much the same, one isn't trying to be cool and grown up.
Yeah, the opening bit was great. It was silly, tounge in cheek and reminded me of Bayonetta. Then you get to some of the later stuff where it's less about being fun and more about being fun but also "I'm still a cool guy because I swear a bunch".
Thats what I'm getting at. They weren't and they weren't trying to be unlike DmC.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I like how they made a Definitive Edition that attempts to make DmC play more like the older games.
JumpCancel
Banned
The DMC VS DmC Devil May Cry ride is a merry-go-round. No end in sight but that doesn't mean it stops moving.
Just out of curiosity... what conversation were you having with yourself?
ShinMaruku
Member
This thread to me is just a blessing that Inafune is gone. That man was beating "Westerners do it better" Drum while lamenting that Japan retreads old works, then the man makes megaman while looking like a fraud. Dove kut indeed.
This far in I probably don't have too much to add, but I'd like to give props to NT for changing up new Dante from his initial reveal so that the final product didn't look like a meth addict. New Dante isn't that bad of a character honestly, but that first look at him in the teaser? Yikes.
Old Dante still better, but that's just my opinion.
Old Dante still better, but that's just my opinion.
direct_quote
Member
I don't know how Dante really grew in this story when he and Vergil literally opened a gate to hell that infected the human world. Doesn't seem too down about that lol. And Vergil's ham heel turn in the last 10 minutes of the game just added to his terrible characterization. Story at the end of the game felt rushed and forced.
Also in the prequel story Vergil wipes Kat's mind or something dumb like that.
People also forgot about the part where Dante tries to goad Mundus into getting angry by talking about killing his unborn child. Was pretty cringe worthy.
Also in the prequel story Vergil wipes Kat's mind or something dumb like that.
People also forgot about the part where Dante tries to goad Mundus into getting angry by talking about killing his unborn child. Was pretty cringe worthy.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
People hate change when it's obviously shit.
/thread
An over the top cheese ball works in an over the top action game for me. A more serious "edgy cool" version of him simply doesn't work for me; especially when you have Ninja Theory writing the game.
/thread
An over the top cheese ball works in an over the top action game for me. A more serious "edgy cool" version of him simply doesn't work for me; especially when you have Ninja Theory writing the game.
It's not just the fact that he was changed, but also the fact that Capcom outsourced development to Ninja Theory.
Change, in this case, wasn't for the better.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
So typical DmC. FFS the stuff the dude actually in the game is some of the most tame shit i've ever seen. And it's absolutely tongue in cheat, the big bad giving a typical final boss speech is mostly ignored. It's absolute in line with the beats of a typical scene in a DMC game yet it's not exactly the same, Capcom didn't want the exact same thing, just similar beats.
direct_quote
Member
Also the fact that if DmC was successful then the original series would be done for. Itsuno even said that in an interview.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
E is pretty good but I wouldn't trade that for the original series.Omnistalgic
Member
Nah, this is not one of those topics where people overreacted and now in retrospect we can all just say "everyone was stupid" just stop it.
The fact that DMC had a definitive edition with stuff in the PR about frame rates and lock on buttons is proof that many of the complaints were justified and warranted.
I didn't have as much a problem with them trying to Americanized Dante, but the cheesy old school one did have a level of charisma about him and the series didn't shy away from being a video game. DMC took itself way to seriously and I didn't care for NT art design in general.
But yeah, gameplay wise, I feel the definitive edition pretty much is an apology to fans of the original.
The fact that DMC had a definitive edition with stuff in the PR about frame rates and lock on buttons is proof that many of the complaints were justified and warranted.
I didn't have as much a problem with them trying to Americanized Dante, but the cheesy old school one did have a level of charisma about him and the series didn't shy away from being a video game. DMC took itself way to seriously and I didn't care for NT art design in general.
But yeah, gameplay wise, I feel the definitive edition pretty much is an apology to fans of the original.
Pyramid head
Banned
Sure. 'Western movie'.
If you want to find an image of a 'western movie' to use in your slide show, Googling 'western movie' doesn't give you anything from Brokeback Mountain.
Let's look at what changed and didn't change with DmC, shall we.
DmC failed to change so much that actually matters: Progression is still completely linear since the mission/chapter system still sticks to the series like gum in its hair, the enemies are still slow and unreactive punching bags with two moves max, bosses are still mostly slow hulking dullards that lack the appropriate tools to challenge the player (like no goddamn anti-air attacks. For examples of how big hulking bosses should be, look at Ludwig and Darkbeast Paarl from Bloodborne), instead of getting rid of the pointless platforming they doubled down on it, the weapon/style switching is still unnecessarily convoluted, they failed to shake up the level design, the art design doesn't amount to more than pretty scenery instead of actually interesting locations (look at Dark Souls and Bloodborne. That's what DMC should aspire to, instead of dull gray-ish cities and pretty skyboxes), they made the "area closes off" scripted events before battles even more fucking annoying, no Boss Rush Mode, no co-op, no NG-esque mission mode, it continued a proud series tradition of getting rid of a bunch of great features from previous games (this time no Royal Guard, no Air Trick, no Sword Pierce/Dance Macabre, no Twosome Time, no Gunstinger, no DT-exclusive moves, no Distortion, no Inertia or Guard Flying, no Nero or any of his mechanics; still no crazy combos, Free Ride, Pole Swing, elemental weapons, obtaining bosses as weapons, Quicksilver or unique firearms like Artemis or Spiral). I could go on and on and on.
As for what they actually changed: The story is a retread of DMC1 and DMC3, the concept of Limbo has little impact on gameplay, the urban environments meets demonic wonderland amount to pretty looking skyboxes instead of actually interesting level design, modern trends like cinematic set pieces and forced walking sections, boss fights are interrupted by cutscenes and scripted events, they got rid of the lock-on which fundamentally changes the combat system and breaks the combat on higher difficulties, the launcher is now on a dedicated button with only two possible functions, more gosh darn bush-snorting stick-licking platforming, zero gravity on aerial moves meaning air combat is dead simple, the Angel/Devil system restricts the freedom of the combat needlessly, the weapon switching is even more convoluted by combining a toggle based weapon switch with the weapon switching of DMC3 and the stupid weapon shuffling from DMC4, weapons are now light/medium/heavy which sucks the fun out of combat even further, the combat has less options because of a more limited move set even though there's two more weapons than DMC4, Dante's Devil Trigger is the worst version yet as it offers nothing beyond an anti-grav feature and a generic power up, and again it got rid and ignored of a bunch of great features from previous games.
Gee, I wonder why DmC's changes were so negatively received. Thankfully the game actually did a lot of cool stuff, most of which gets ignored by most of its supposed fans and its detractors.
As for DmC Dante, no, people didn't hate him because they "hate change". They hated DmC Dante because the initial reveal was absolutely terrible, because instead of taking the criticism to heart Tameem and Capcom's Alex Jones dismissed fan concerns and insulted them. They hated DmC Dante because he's much less of the goofy cartoon character that people loved. They hate DmC Dante because he fucks strippers in the intro, and lives in a trailer. They hate DmC Dante because he dresses like a hobo. They hate DmC Dante because of the nature of the reboot his character represented a regression of all the development the original version of the character had undergone.
You can argue that some or none of those things matter. Personally, I don't really care about the changes that much because gameplay is no. 1 to me. But no one hates DmC Dante solely because they "hate change". It's a completely embarrassing notion and something that sounds like drive-by YouTube comment rather than a NeoGAF post.
I'm sick to death of every DmC related thread being the same garbage ad nauseum. Random DmC stans insulting fans over trivial bullshit while ignoring the actual interesting stuff the game did because their interest in DmC will never be anything but shallow gravy, while on the other hand a bunch of DMC weekend warriors shout about how DmC was the worst thing ever and worse than DMC2 and while also failing to acknowledge the before-mentioned great additions to the formula that DmC had.
We're so goddamn lucky that people like Rahni Tucker and NeoGAF's own TribladeX were involved in DmC because I shudder to think about what kind of shit fest DmC would have been otherwise.
Edit: Just so people don't gloss over it because it was a response to an unrelated comment, cool things DmC actually introduced which would be very, very, very welcome in any future DMC game:
Fully 360 degree rotatable camera system, full 360 degree maneuverability in mid-air instead of the forced jump arcs of previous games, Ricoshot, Reverse Rainstorm, Aquila's mechanics, the changes to Vergil's combat mechanics and move set, Dojo/Training Mode, extensive stat tracking found in the options, in-game speed increasing by 10% at S rank and above, the changes to the upgrade system such as upgrades costing 1 point and upgrade points being tied to the style meter, the ability to try out moves before buying them, generally more intuitive menu system/interface, being able to quit and continue from the last checkpoint, secret missions being available from the menu, features like Turbo and Super Mode being toggles in the main menu instead of hidden in the options, almost no forced backtracking or puzzle solving, bosses get their own separate missions, environmental hazards which are useful in combat, enemies that can parry attacks mid-air/mid-combo, unique enemy types like Tyrant (large hulking enemy) and Witch (support-type long-range enemy), charge moves charge faster and are therefore much more useful, pause combo-switching (i.e. continuing a pause combo with a different weapon) which is accompanied by a controller rumble and a flashing of the weapon, pause combo-switching for aerial combos, moves with just frame properties for all weapon types and not just gauntlets, improved style visual UI as Style rank up is indicated by the letter filling up, the style ranking system in DmC DE which is the best version of any game in the series, toggle-based lock-on, Bloody Palace timer option, Must Style Mode, Gods Must Die as an official feature.
The best things DmC gave us were a fully 360 degree rotatable camera system, full 360 degree maneuverability in mid-air instead of the forced jump arcs of previous games, Ricoshot, Reverse Rainstorm, Aquila's mechanics, the changes to Vergil's combat mechanics and move set, Dojo/Training Mode, extensive stat tracking found in the options, in-game speed increasing by 10% at S rank and above, the changes to the upgrade system such as upgrades costing 1 point and upgrade points being tied to the style meter, the ability to try out moves before buying them, generally more intuitive menu system/interface, being able to quit and continue from the last checkpoint, secret missions being available from the menu, features like Turbo and Super Mode being toggles in the main menu instead of hidden in the options, almost no forced backtracking or puzzle solving, bosses get their own separate missions, environmental hazards which are useful in combat, enemies that can parry attacks mid-air/mid-combo, unique enemy types like Tyrant (large hulking enemy) and Witch (support-type long-range enemy), charge moves charge faster and are therefore much more useful, pause combo-switching (i.e. continuing a pause combo with a different weapon) which is accompanied by a controller rumble and a flashing of the weapon, pause combo-switching for aerial combos, moves with just frame properties for all weapon types and not just gauntlets, improved style visual UI as Style rank up is indicated by the letter filling up, the style ranking system in DmC DE which is the best version of any game in the series, toggle-based lock-on, Bloody Palace timer option, Must Style Mode, Gods Must Die as an official feature.
You're ignoring context. Merely an hour before we have a scene where Kat explains in dead pan about how she was abused and raped by her step father who was a demon. The tone of DmC, like the originals, is all over the place.
If people misunderstood anything about the story, the game itself is to blame.
Mass Effect
Member
I mean if you want to argue the hypothetical value of make-believe demons based on their in-game intelligence, then sure, especially since we're going to ignore context much like you're doing.
I don't even know what you're talking about. I ****I**** never said anything about that scene being too serious, nor did I say it was "not okay" for the game to be over-the-top. I said it fails at doing a good job of that. Look, if you're going to ignore what I said and make things up to feign exasperation then why are we even doing this?
Demoskinos
Member
Nailed it. That's where most of my irritation with these discussions comes from as well. If you don't like a thing sure don't like it but a lot of the presented arguments I use that word lightly come off as you say very disingenuous.
Yeah, and of all the westerns they could use they just happen to settle on that one. Uh huh, sure.
Dog whistling at its finest.
I preferred the original DMC series in terms of presentation. I've never liked how a lot of Western games have presented sexual topics. It's from a very male-centric point of view and it just makes me cringe. Mundus having sex doggy-style was 100% cringe to me. It was just crass and... I didn't see how it added to the story?
Compare that to the DMC4 scene where Dante's dropping sexual innuendos after getting that one monster's power up. That scene had me laughing instead of cringing. I guess it was the sense of "wink wink nudge nudge" instead of the more in your face style of DmC. That's the best way I can think to describe it.
I think that's the way I'd describe what I didn't like about DmC's humor. It was too crass. I feel like Japanese games are generally better at avoiding that kind of thing.
Case in point, Bayonetta (different developer, of course). The presentation of Bayonetta's sexuality in that game never made me feel uncomfortable. The game felt super aware of it. I don't get that sense of self-awareness with how DmC treated sexual topics.
A lot of Western games have this alpha male mentality to them that throws me off. And using Broke Back in that example points to that. A lot of homophobia is understated and unconscious due to cultural norms. Doesn't make that example any less homophobic.
Compare that to the DMC4 scene where Dante's dropping sexual innuendos after getting that one monster's power up. That scene had me laughing instead of cringing. I guess it was the sense of "wink wink nudge nudge" instead of the more in your face style of DmC. That's the best way I can think to describe it.
I think that's the way I'd describe what I didn't like about DmC's humor. It was too crass. I feel like Japanese games are generally better at avoiding that kind of thing.
Case in point, Bayonetta (different developer, of course). The presentation of Bayonetta's sexuality in that game never made me feel uncomfortable. The game felt super aware of it. I don't get that sense of self-awareness with how DmC treated sexual topics.
A lot of Western games have this alpha male mentality to them that throws me off. And using Broke Back in that example points to that. A lot of homophobia is understated and unconscious due to cultural norms. Doesn't make that example any less homophobic.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You can argue about the tone being inconsistent. (Frankly I find it the most consistent since the first one especially after 4). The game itself isn't to blame when the audience is unbelievably stubborn when it comes to their opinions even when presented with rational thoughts on the matter. And ESPECIALLY if they're taking literally everything in a satirical game absolutely at face value.
I'm saying so many of the criticisms don't make very much sense under scrutiny.
I'm absolutely ok with people not liking the tone, just not when they misinterpret the intentions of the dev.
As someone that likes the game and doesn't mind the "fuck you" scene, the tone is inconsistent and the game is absolutely to blame. "But the fans" is not an argument.
Well the sales of the game speak for themselves. They did all of that to appeal to a wider audience and in return less people bought that game than any other game in the franchise. Which was bad because DMC 1-3 were only released on PS2 at the time. Also conventional wisdom would tell you that if something ain't broke, don't fix it. DMC4 was the highest selling game in the franchise and Capcom decides oh it's time to reboot it. Dumb decision and that's not in hindsight. They made something nobody wanted.
Also who was the one at Capcom that decided outsourcing games was a good idea?
Also who was the one at Capcom that decided outsourcing games was a good idea?
Omnistalgic
Member
this is typical "I don't get it" posts. I wish people who be a little more investigative than that.
Most people were not mad about the white hair or change. Most people were mad because it was just a bad character.
Dante from Devil May Cry 1 was a generic demon MC with a tint of glee.
Dante from 2 was a edgy teenager who watches Nightmare before Christmas every day.
Now Dante from 3-4 was a smug jerk but a lovable smug jerk. He is a character who finds joy in everything and is smug about it. He is the player blasting demons in stylish ways and enjoying it. The character though had moments where he got serous and those were nice little character moments.
Now Dante from DmC is a mix of all the worse parts of Dante. He is a smug jerk but he never comes across as lovable. He is a edgy little teenager who just learned bad words from watching South Park. The moments where they tried to give him character failed because the writing of of the story was bad.
DmC also failed because it was not that great of a game in the first place. It was a decent character action game, it didn't hold a candle to Devil May Cry though.
Dante from Devil May Cry 1 was a generic demon MC with a tint of glee.
Dante from 2 was a edgy teenager who watches Nightmare before Christmas every day.
Now Dante from 3-4 was a smug jerk but a lovable smug jerk. He is a character who finds joy in everything and is smug about it. He is the player blasting demons in stylish ways and enjoying it. The character though had moments where he got serous and those were nice little character moments.
Now Dante from DmC is a mix of all the worse parts of Dante. He is a smug jerk but he never comes across as lovable. He is a edgy little teenager who just learned bad words from watching South Park. The moments where they tried to give him character failed because the writing of of the story was bad.
DmC also failed because it was not that great of a game in the first place. It was a decent character action game, it didn't hold a candle to Devil May Cry though.
Travis Touchdown's character has way more development than Gene of all people
The pot has officially called the kettle black...
I think one of the key points you are missing is that people aren't necessarily taking satirical moments at face value; many people here are under the impression that those scenes simply didn't work.
AgentLampshade
Member
Is it worth reading the previous pages? Probably not. Going to avoid it because someone will set me off. My issue with him isn't that he isn't the Dante I love (shock!), it's that he is the most detestable protagonist I've ever played. We're introduced to him as he's pissed out his mind sleeping with two strippers and living out of a trailer without the common decency to put some underwear on before answering the door. Later on, he casually mocks the death of an unborn child in front of the victim (and let's be honest here, Mundus did nothing wrong over the course of DmC. Dude was defending his empire.) How am I supposed to root for the guy who stoops to dead baby jokes? Or the one who decides to duel his
DmC (DE) has a lot of positives, but the story and characters sure as shit ain't one of them.
Buuuuuut, to answer the question directly: Yes. People didn't want a reboot, so they flocked to any stupid reason to hate on the game when it was first unveiled. The black hair, the smoking, the fact his hair looked like Tameems at the time, the junkie look, the fact it wasn't our Dante. All stupid reasons, but that doesn't make them any less valid (Aside from the Tameem hair one. That one was just silly.) People can care for a series based on aesthetics alone, and that's fine! Then both Capcom and Ninja Theory took an aggressive stance and started attacking the fans (I distinctly recall Alex Jones laughing off a legitimate question on one of the streams), and for whatever reason, the games media started joining in on the fun. No fucking wonder fans started doing stupid things back. People do stupid things when the thing they care about is taken away from them AND they're insulted afterwards.
brother over a disagreement without even talking about it first?
Buuuuuut, to answer the question directly: Yes. People didn't want a reboot, so they flocked to any stupid reason to hate on the game when it was first unveiled. The black hair, the smoking, the fact his hair looked like Tameems at the time, the junkie look, the fact it wasn't our Dante. All stupid reasons, but that doesn't make them any less valid (Aside from the Tameem hair one. That one was just silly.) People can care for a series based on aesthetics alone, and that's fine! Then both Capcom and Ninja Theory took an aggressive stance and started attacking the fans (I distinctly recall Alex Jones laughing off a legitimate question on one of the streams), and for whatever reason, the games media started joining in on the fun. No fucking wonder fans started doing stupid things back. People do stupid things when the thing they care about is taken away from them AND they're insulted afterwards.
R_thanatos
Member
Donte lacks the fun factor that Dante and vigil had in dmc3.
Then you had the very bad press release and the back pedalling thought development .
It's only after God so many fixes that they managed to output a decent game after 2 games in the franchise that were amazing.
Then you had the very bad press release and the back pedalling thought development .
It's only after God so many fixes that they managed to output a decent game after 2 games in the franchise that were amazing.
Again, you're doing the whole "it's not the game fault, it's the people" thing. That's a poor excuse. As if the game itself is incapable getting criticized. When the writing falters in a game, it's not gonna fall on the hands of the ones playing the game. That responsibility is on the ones who are behind the game.
Omnistalgic
Member
tks for taking the time to clarify things. I don't have the energy lol...but it is insulting to see so many people quote the first posts about "hating change" as if there is any credibility to it. But i stand by what I said, the DE version is proof the backlash has some merit, ppl can disputed that if they want, but it's in the PR and boss marketing lol. And DMC is a good game when it's all said and done, they still screwed up though.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Great post detailing why people didn't respond well as well as laying out some of the good things DmC brought to the series in terms of mechanics and features.
Donte's design isn't visually appealing. Dante's is. They really fucked up those first impressions, and the backlash followed. Didn't help that all the trailers and viral gameplay videos also made him come across as an awful, cringy character.
Also, Tameem making Donte in his own image. Come on, son.
Also, Tameem making Donte in his own image. Come on, son.
Basketball
Member
I didn't even need to play most of the Devil May cry games
to know old Dante is better ... and looks better
the new one looks/sounds like a bitch
it's like Old Lara vs Reboot Laura
Personality , Style, Supreme confidence etc
to know old Dante is better ... and looks better
the new one looks/sounds like a bitch
it's like Old Lara vs Reboot Laura
Personality , Style, Supreme confidence etc
plasmawave
Banned
He's a boring character with cliche character arc.
He's not fun or cool.
He's not fun or cool.
Thank you.
Indeed. Whenever someone response to criticism goes to "hating change", that's a clue not to take their views seriously afterwards.
For me it was this. The angst was too forced. Also, there are other ways to be an ass and/or edgy than continuously saying, "Fuck you" to the pregnant demon.
If they made the characters attitude a bit more natural, I'd have no issue with it. Hell, I didn't even mind the redesign (though I prefer OG Dante)
Astral Dog
Member
anothertech
Member
This. All other posts void.
Mass Effect
Member
The irony of this being posted yet again with the quoted post above yours juxtaposed against this increasingly obnoxious empty statement is pretty funny.
Your comparison to that DMC4 scene does not excuse the stupidity of the succubus scene. If that's your main argument for it, then that's not really much in the way of "scrutiny." I never said that the DMC4 scene was good, I only said that the scene isn't much worse than the gameplay before it. You're the one going on about things like "how is that okay, but *this* isn't?" which I never even said.
As far as the tone goes and the overall seriousness of the game; DmC tries to straddle this strange line between being serious on some topics (consumerism, the "system"/corporatism, Kat's abuse) while being cringe-worthily over-the-top with others (the abortion, Mundus making the world his bitch, dick jokes (I mean really?), Dante talking shit to Mundus about his dead demon child) If it weren't for the political nature of parts of the game and it's high-school level of social commentary about it, I wouldn't have found its tone nearly as annoying. Seriously, go play the level where you're traversing that warehouse and the one going through the office building and read those messages. It's like something some teenage punk rock band would use as lyrics.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The tone being inconsistent is a fault of the game. But people aren't complaining about the tone, they're taking a scene at face value, just like they take the wig scene as NT basically saying FU to the devs when it's a typical reboot trope for a character to actively reference their old selves in some way. Your post for instance perfectly articulated why some didn't like the gameplay changes without regurgitating youtube level comments where scenes are taken out of context for the sake of arguments.
Many have over the years, countless times, named the fuck you scene as an example of the game taking itself very seriously.
I'm not saying the game's writing can't be criticized. I'd like to see better more thought out criticism.
The One and Done
Member
Strictly focusing on gameplay, DMC3 SE and DMC4 are 1 and 2 for me in the series. Regarding Dantes look, I was never super attached to it. I actually thought his DMC 1 look was "ok", kind of corny actually. Vergil was probably the first character I became attached to looks and personality wise. And I hated what they did to him in DmC. He turned out to be a mindless murderer and seemed so shallow. Absolutely hated the ending.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
I watched the video. He says "capcom told us to imagine if Dante was in a western movie". Cut to Dante in Brokeback Mountain. "Okay well maybe they didn't mean that."
It may not have been "especially malicious" but it is extremely poorly thought-out and immature. It's a cheap and immature shot and in that sense exemplifies a lot of the issues that the game's public face had.
And insinuating the people calling something homophobic are the real homophobes? Come on...
theSlacker
Member
I'm pretty sure we can close the thread now.