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[Hoo-doo]

Seeing MadeInBeats skirt around a full-blown meltdown in these kind of threads will never cease to entertain.

 

[TheD]

I don't think you understand what I said.

Your IQ as a number is completely irrelevant once you reach adult hood. The number assigned means fuck all. It is only relevant as a child, because a 10 year old with the thought process of a 20 year old is impressive. A 40 year old thinking like a 50 year old is not.

It would be an objective fact that iq is high or low based on testing. But that is not a measure of your intelligence beyond childhood.

In this case, I took the comment to be the same. The numbers we have for the RAM are low, but that doesn't mean the console is under powered as a whole.

Them again, he may have just been calling you stupid, but that was not how it appeared to me, or likely anyone else that understands how iq tests work.

But as I said, RAM bandwidth is not irrelevant, thus your comparison falls apart.

 

[Oblivion]

360 DX9 with some quirks

PS3 DX9 variant.

The Xbox 360 uses a modified DirectX 9 API while the PS3 has its own graphics API. DirectX 10 is not compatible with the 360.

The WiiU is rumoured to have DirectX 10.1 compatible GPU, putting it far ahead of the PS360 in that regard.

Thank ye.

 

[Ydahs]

The EDRAM is exciting (froma developing satndpoint). I wonder how many devs will have native 720p deferred engines with this thing. It should be quite interesting.

I actually read a bit about Killzone 2's implementation of deferred shading. It sounds like such an elegant rendering method with impressive results. I'm gonna have a shot at implementing it myself soon

 

[BibiMaghoo]

But as I said, RAM bandwidth is not irrelevant, thus your comparison falls apart.

It was not my comparison...

I was mearly pointing out what it appeared the post meant. You seemed to take it as question of your intelligence, I was pointing out it was likely not at all.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Seeing MadeInBeats skirt around a full-blown meltdown in these kind of threads will never cease to entertain.

Shhhhhhh, quiet everyone, hoo doo's about to tell us how the Wii U's hardware works.

Alright mate, everyone's listening, share with the group. GO.

 

[MThanded]

MadeInBeats about to go nuclear in here. Back away from the ledge.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Will re-read the entire thread when I can appreciate the humor of some of these posts. It's too early for that.

As for the specs, can't say I'm shocked (maybe surprised a little). Although my expectations were calibrated really low a long time ago.

 

[cyberheater]

There absolutely is, and more of it (and apparently more flexible) than on 360.

Do we know where the edram is on WiiU? Is it just on the GPU or elsewhere?

 

[Reiko]

MadeInBeats about to go nuclear in here. Back away from the ledge.

If this is a taste of E3 2013... It's gonna be insane...

 

[Horse Armour]

Is MadeInBeats the first post launch Nintendo fan meltdown?

 

[TheD]

It was not my comparison...

I was mearly pointing out what it appeared the post meant. You seemed to take it as question of your intelligence, I was pointing out it was likely not at all.

Yes, I should of said his.
But going by his posts I think you might have overestimated him.

 

[maquiladora]

If this is a taste of E3 2013... It's gonna be insane...

There isnt enough popcorn in the world for E3 2013.

 

[Thraktor]

Do we know where the edram is on WiiU? Is it just on the GPU or elsewhere?

There's eDRAM on-die with the GPU (confirmed in Iwata Asks), which numerous sources report as being 32MB in size. We don't have hard numbers on bandwidth, but 200GB/s or so is expected.

Also, the CPU has an eDRAM cache, which is reported to be 3MB. Keep in mind that it's a cache, so it operates automatically and isn't directly accessible to code in the same way that the GPU's eDRAM is.

 

[Oblivion]

We don't have hard numbers on bandwidth, but 200GB/s or so is expected.

What's the bandwidth on the 360 eDRAM?

 

[Pie and Beans]

Is MadeInBeats the first post launch Nintendo fan meltdown?

I had my bets on Alextended but he's reigned it in post-"MAYBE ENGLISH ISNT YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE" outburst, but MadeInBeats' deep rooted defence based nervous lashing out is certainly driving him towards some crisis point. Comparing set in stone max memory access speed rates to an IQ number is one of those superb nonsense analogies.

Plus points to everyone hoping that the WiiU accesses its memory pool in a magical roundabout new innovative way in which the GB/s doesn't affect anything at all or make it inferior. Sure you can plan your games code around those limitations or whatever so its unnoticeable, but 2012 tech having slower RAM than 2005 tech really is pretty astounding to me. I thought RAM was going to at least be the Wii U's step above the HD twins in every way. SURPRISE!!!

Co-signed on E3 madness.

 

[Thraktor]

What's the bandwidth on the 360 eDRAM?

The eDRAM on the XBox360 is on a separate die with (afaik) the ROPs and some of the shader units. The link between this die and the main GPU die operates at 32GB/s, and the internal bandwidth on the eDRAM die is 256GB/s.

That's just off the top of my head. More knowledgable folks will probably correct me.

 

[Ydahs]

What's the bandwidth on the 360 eDRAM?

I don't know much about eDRAM, but it's 10MB if that helps.

32MB seems like a pretty large amount for eDRAM. Is that around current standards?

 

[grimshawish]

This thread man. This thread.

Weird to hear its slower but not unbelievable - not a techy expert but can GPU take the boatload of some things?

Interesting all the same.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Expected.

Luckily for me this is the Nintendo console to play Nintendo games, so when they're fucked in a few months and don't get third party games I won't care as I'll be playing them on the new consoles or my PC.

Buying a Nintendo console for anything but the exclusives is madness.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Meltdown! I'mmmm just-a bustin' a few chops. I need to prove I'm not having a WiiU meltdown down now, how the fuck do I do that! Doctor's note? I'll phone as soon as I've taken these underpants off my head.

 

[kinggroin]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

 

[Ydahs]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

No. The OS issue is an optimization issue, not a memory issue. Nintendo Land seems to have quick load times from what I've seen.

 

[cyberheater]

The eDRAM on the XBox360 is on a separate die with (afaik) the ROPs and some of the shader units. The link between this die and the main GPU die operates at 32GB/s, and the internal bandwidth on the eDRAM die is 256GB/s.

That's just off the top of my head. More knowledgable folks will probably correct me.

Hmmm. I wonder if there are other pools?

 

[MadeInBeats]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

There's no way to 'defend' it, IF it's true, and IF it gimps the system.

OS is probably slow because it isn't finished yet; you might have got the impression Nintendo have been stretched to the limits meeting the launch date. I know I have. Expect several OS updates over the next few weeks I say!

 

[maquiladora]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

Will surely be improved with future updates.

 

[grimshawish]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

No OS is slow because its constantly connecting to the Nintendo Network.
Like if Nintendo Land is connected to the Miiverse, the Miiverse app takes ages to then load because its going through the motions again.

Nintendo should fix this. And the Apps themselves run absolutely fine once loaded.
This isn't causing issue for the OS.

 

[Margalis]

Hmmm. I wonder if there are other pools?

Other pools? Like...other pools of eDRAM on the 360?

 

[ozfunghi]

I don't think you understand what I said.

Your IQ as a number is completely irrelevant once you reach adult hood. The number assigned means fuck all. It is only relevant as a child, because a 10 year old with the thought process of a 20 year old is impressive. A 40 year old thinking like a 50 year old is not.

It would be an objective fact that iq is high or low based on testing. But that is not a measure of your intelligence beyond childhood.

What are you talking about? Your IQ doesn't change with age. It has nothing to do with knowledge or experience.

 

[StevieP]

So the talking point has shifted from "you can't compare console RAM to PC RAM, and are stupid for even trying to do so" to "sure, it's PC RAM, but that's also what the other consoles will use". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being distinctly in favor of the first option way back when. And ridiculing people who even remotely attempted any comparison to PC memories.

To be honest, I didn't think any of the console manufacturers were stupid enough a year and a half ago to use strictly DDRx ram. I was wrong. I'll be glad to admit I was wrong. For the worse. I guess people like hearing big numbers, even if it's slow (hence MS putting 8gb of DDRx into the next Xbox, for example). 2GB of GDDR5 was on the PS4's spec sheet, but that's likely out the window now thanks to Sony probably wanting approximate parity with MS' box.

 

[Ydahs]

There's no way to 'defend' it, IF it's true, and IF it gimps the system.

OS is probably slow because it isn't finished yet; you might have got the impression Nintendo have been stretched to the limits meeting the launch day. I know I have. Expect several OS updates over the next few weeks I say!

The update that launched today was probably completed a while ago, but it most likely needed heavy QA to ensure (A) there were no bugs and (B) there were no security loopholes.

Hopefully, in the meantime Nintendo were addressing the glaringly obvious optimization issues, but that itself will need to undergo rigorous QA so I'm not so sure it'll be ready to go within the next few days.

edit: oh, you said a few weeks. nvm!

 

[cyberheater]

Other pools? Like...other pools of eDRAM on the 360?

Other pools of edram for WiiU.

 

[Thraktor]

Other pools of edram for WiiU.

All the documentation just refers to MEM1 (GPU eDRAM) and MEM2 (DDR3). That's it as far as memory is concerned.

Well, I suppose it's technically possible that there's a bit of eDRAM acting as a buffer on the ASIC that handles compression for streaming to the pad, but that's not really comparable.

Edit: Actually, wsippel mentioned a Hynix chip on there, which is a bit of a mystery to me, as they're predominantly a RAM manufacturer and the RAM is accounted for, but it's probably just flash or something.

 

[gofreak]

Man, no way to defend this if true.


Could this be the reason why the OS is dog slow?

No. Vita's OS is the snappiest game OS I've used, and it's working with less. I have to assume OS performance at the moment is down to a really bad or rushed job.

edit - I mean, the 3DS OS is even faster than that. At least to get to the home screen from a game (a couple of seconds...vs 10-15 for Wii U at the moment? Is that really true?)

 

[TAS]

I don't believe it. No way Nintendo would use slower RAM than last gen consoles. Way too much misinformation flying around here.

 

[StevieP]

I don't believe it. No way Nintendo would use slower RAM than last gen consoles. Way too much misinformation flying around here.

Not only did they use regular (non "g") ddr memory, but they won't be the only one to do so for their 8th gen console. Shocking? Not really. Big numbers = message boards creaming (well, 2gb isn't really that big but the other examples are much more).

 

[Chaplain]

Can someone please explain these RAM specs in layman's terms?

 

[Turrican3]

What is the difference (if any) between DDR3, SDDR3 and gDDR3?

Unless they're all synonims (I really don't know), first post says RAM is DDR3, Samsung catalog lists it under gDDR3 but then its product code leads to SDDR3 type.

 

[Erethian]

I don't believe it. No way Nintendo would use slower RAM than last gen consoles. Way too much misinformation flying around here.

There are legitimate design reasons why you would use the RAM they did, especially if you were designing a console that will have half its secondary memory dedicated to the OS.

Can someone please explain these RAM specs in layman's terms?

To put it simply Nintendo went with a low latency but lower bandwidth memory pool for their secondary memory, whereas past consoles (the PS3/360) went for a higher latency but higher bandwidth memory pool.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each depending on what you're doing. Generally you want DDR (the former type) for system memory, and the latter (GDDR) for GPU memory. It's understood that to counter the downside of having low bandwidth DDR Nintendo has 32MB of extremely high bandwidth eDRAM on the GPU.

 

[Thraktor]

What is the difference (if any) between DDR3, SDDR3 and gDDR3?

Unless they're all synonims (I really don't know), first post says RAM is DDR3, Samsung catalog lists it under gDDR3 but then its product code leads to SDDR3 type.

They're basically all the same thing. The main difference is how they're packaged.

 

[frankie_baby]

They're basically all the same thing. The main difference is how they're packaged.

I thought gddr3 had more in common with DDR2 than with ddr3?

 

[Felix Lighter]

So the rumors for the other next gen consoles are that they have DDR3 ram exclusively? No separate GDDR5 memory pool or anything similiar?

 

[Turrican3]

They're basically all the same thing. The main difference is how they're packaged.

Thanks.

 

[StevieP]

So the rumors for the other next gen consoles are that they have DDR3 ram exclusively? No separate GDDR5 memory pool or anything similiar?

The only actual legitimate and verified leaks we've had on this message board and others from the internet suggested that Sony was going with 2GB of GDDR5 and MS with 8GB of standard DDRx (the kits have 12GB of regular DDR3. 8 + 4 for debug, with a large unspecified amount of that 8 cordoned off for some kind of OS use). The Sony one is likely out of date as the leak was from over a year ago, the MS leak is spot on (well... if you choose to believe the leaks). If I were a betting man, I'd say that Sony is probably going to pull a similar number to MS using similar memory, rather than a smaller amount of faster memory.

 

[Thraktor]

I thought gddr3 had more in common with DDR2 than with ddr3?

Well, there's GDDR3, which is a derivative of DDR2, and then there's gDDR3, which is just regular DDR3, but packaged for GPUs and consoles. Confusing, I know.

 

[frankie_baby]

Well, there's GDDR3, which is a derivative of DDR2, and then there's gDDR3, which is just regular DDR3, but packaged for GPUs and consoles. Confusing, I know.

Which is the one the wii and 360 used?

 

[Horse Armour]

I thought gddr3 had more in common with DDR2 than with ddr3?

This is gDDR3 not GDDR3, notice the difference, the first is what's used in the Wii U, the other is what's used in 360, PS3 and the Wii.

 

[frankie_baby]

This is gDDR3 not GDDR3, notice the difference, the first is what's used in the Wii U, the other is what's used in 360, PS3 and the Wii.

But I thought the wii u used DDR3?

 

[Thraktor]

Which is the one the wii and 360 used?

GDDR3 was used in the XBox360, Wii and PS3 (and GPUs from that era). gDDR3 is more modern.

 

[Horse Armour]

But I thought the wii u used DDR3?

It does. gDDR3 is DDR3, GDDR3 however isn't.