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[mgcastro]

Well at least it has 2 GB, considering many people from the old speculation threads thought it would have 1 - 1.5 GB total, if I recall right.

 

[EVOL 100%]

Ugh, this is so disappointing.

Memory worse than 7 year consoles? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not a specs guy, I have a PC for that kind of thing but come on...

 

[H_Prestige]

We really do live in times where the UI is an important part of a platform. I think Nintendo just wants to ensure the usability of Wii U doesn't feel shit compared to apple.

One of the reasons I don't play much with consoles now is the UI and the horrible update war you have to wage every time you open them.

Well they fucked up because the UI is slow as shit.

 

[TunaLover]

Will wait until someone open an actual system, something must missing in the whole puzzle, seems kinda odd that Nintendo used that memory being so paranoid about speed access as they are. It doesn't fit that Nintendo loose money for every unit, the controller is costly true, but we are not talking about a 1080p amazing screen either.

 

[cyberheater]

We really do live in times where the UI is an important part of a platform. I think Nintendo just wants to ensure the usability of Wii U doesn't feel shit compared to apple.

One of the reasons I don't play much with consoles now is the UI and the horrible update war you have to wage every time you open them.

Yes but you don't need to have the UI present when the game is launched. Reserve as much of the memory for the game as possible.
Who really cares if they can suddenly switch to a browser mid game. It's not worth the trade.

 

[cyberheater]

Well at least it has 2 GB, considering many people from the old speculation threads thought it would have 1 - 1.5 GB total, if I recall right.

But in a way. It's only got 1Gb of fairly slow memory for games. Not great.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

This makes buying a Wii-U a really hard choice for me. I don't like the majority of Nintendo's first party content, it just doesn't click with me. If the third party games are going to be down ports, in terms of visuals and possibly features... well, I can't buy a console just for Bayonetta 2.

 

[H_Prestige]

Yes but you don't need to have the UI present when the game is launched. Reserve as much of the memory for the game as possible.
Who really cares if they can suddenly switch to a browser mid game. It's not worth the trade.

It's also pointless. Just use your phone or laptop for browsing.

 

[Horse Armour]

Same thing happened with the Wii. Wii was supposed to be way more powerful than Xbox, GCN, and PS2 but the games certainly didn't show it. But it's pretty much a given that Nintendo consoles are meant for Nintendo exclusives with a little bit of 3rd party goodies here and there. I'm fine with that. I'll be damned if I don't get a 720p 60fps Zelda though.

No it wasn't. The best of the Xbox beat the best of the Wii.

 

[StrangeADT]

Games designed and written for WiiU should look better then what we have on PS360 if the devs can be bothered to put the work in, have the time and have the talent.
The hardware should be able to deliver.

Right, but it's disappointing that better quality isn't easily attainable in hardware released 6 years after current gen stuff. This shouldn't be a matter of talent. It should be easy. 6 years in hardware terms is FOREVER. In 2006, the high end GPU was a Geforce 7900 series. That's terrible hardware now. It's such a huge difference that I can't even really find comparable benchmarks. Doom 3 was the "heavy" game back in 2006. You realize the amount of progress we've made from Doom 3 right?

 

[Father_Brain]

Wii U could be packing dual Keplers, and it would still probably end up missing out on a very large percentage of multiplatform titles.

Specs matter, but I doubt they matter as much as how third parties perceive the audience for the system.

 

[zoukka]

Yes but you don't need to have the UI present when the game is launched. Reserve as much of the memory for the game as possible.
Who really cares if they can suddenly switch to a browser mid game. It's not worth the trade.

You are clearly not a tablet/smartphone user.

 

[Lonely1]

So "we" always knew the ram would be slower than 7 year old hardware's ram? nah
It is one thing to assume it'll be limited and slow but slower than even the 360 and PS3's, and by a 25% margin? That's unbelievable

Try again.

 

[blu]

But in a way. It's only got 1Gb of fairly slow memory for games. Not great.

Games have access to some 32MB of edram too. Not that you'd care.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Now we know why nintendo never told us the specs. It's like they used the bare minimum to be called an HD console. Damn you stupid Gamepad!! I would trade that thing for double the cpu and gpu :/

Well lets see how its balanced with the gpu and cpu. Maybe nintendo worked some gamecube magic.

 

[dallow_bg]

I wonder how long we'll be having threads where people say "lazy port, Wii U can do a lot better".
Was that way for PS3 and never quite went away.

 

[cyberheater]

You are clearly not a tablet/smartphone user.

I have a iPhone and iPad.

 

[Reiko]

Thread Title EDIT: Cue Thread Depression

 

[OryoN]

I understand not everyone understand these details beyond directly comparing numbers, but even taking those people out of the equation, this thread is still full of people who choose to draw wild conclusions based on this bit of info. Like: the system being gimped, or being weaker than current gen. Maybe it is gimped, but I can't tell from just this. If you guys got some extra info about Wii U's total bandwidth, I'd sure like to see it.

Question: If, by these details, the system is botched/weaker, what going to be the reaction if/when we learn that the system's eDRAM provides several times more bandwidth than that of PS3, for example? Will we use that to determine that this "weaker" console is actually several times more powerful than PS3? This weird logic should work both ways right? Oh wait, no? Guys, play fair!


Anyway, as some would have already pointed out, we'd need to know how the system is designed to use its total available bandwidth. Is the DDR3 bandwidth slower than expected? Yeah, I was expecting it to be roughly the same. Still, this may indicate that Nintendo designed the eDRAM to be much more than simply framebuffer buffer, which would be very interesting to learn about.

Obviously, Nintendo knows more about their own hardware than anyone else, and judging by how some developers were already praising the system's low latency and memory layout, I'd wager that Takeda's statement was a very high priority for Nintendo:

Takeda:

I would draw attention to how efficient it is. For a computer to function efficiently, memory hierarchy is important, but this time the basic memory levels are tight. That makes it orthodox*, but also makes the foremost feature of this machine its efficiency.

(*Note: meant to say 'unorthodox'?)

I'm more concerened about how Wii U's memory layout will affect future ports(lots of reworking?), especially if the next consoles don't rely on GPU eDRAM. I'm thinking something similar to GameCube - usually shabby ports, great ground-up/exclusive stuff.

 

[cyberheater]

Games have access to some 32MB of edram too. Not that you'd care.

I care. Is the 32mb of edram on the GPU?

 

[blu]

I care. Is the 32mb of edram on the GPU?

Yes.

 

[Lonely1]

I care. Is the 32mb of edram on the GPU?

That's the most likely assumption, yes.

 

[cyberheater]

Right, but it's disappointing that better quality isn't easily attainable in hardware released 6 years after current gen stuff. This shouldn't be a matter of talent. It should be easy. 6 years in hardware terms is FOREVER. In 2006, the high end GPU was a Geforce 7900 series. That's terrible hardware now. It's such a huge difference that I can't even really find comparable benchmarks. Doom 3 was the "heavy" game back in 2006. You realize the amount of progress we've made from Doom 3 right?

I can assure you that I'm more disappointed by WiiU then you are.

I've still pre-ordered it (in the UK) because I believe that Ninty will deliver some amazing games for it.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Also, don't forget, besides frame buffer (which will use the edram), textures are one of the main bandwidth hogs. And we have heard from devs that Nintendo has employed a few texture compression tricks that could ease that load a bit.

 

[Thraktor]

Not one to call people out publicly but I'd love to hear StevieP, bgassassin, wsippel, and all of the other speculation thread regulars' take on this. All those months of debating and defending down the tubes. Memory speed is a huge issue, devs have said it's always been a big bottleneck for this gen, and to actually have slower RAM than 6-7 year old consoles... is this real life.

DDR3 + EDRam makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

(07-05-2012, 11:50 PM) (Link)

The eDRAM in Wii U is why DDR3 becomes a viable candidate for it.

(03-05-2012, 04:00 AM) (Link)

MEM1: 32MB IBM/ Qimonda eDRAM (fast scratchpad and/or framebuffer, 1T-SRAM replacement)
MEM2: 1.5GB DDR3 (main RAM)

(03-15-2012, 11:22 PM) (Link)


And, although you didn't call me out, here's me:

DDR3 and GDDR5 are the only options for a console releasing this year, and not only is DDR3 cheaper, but I'd guess Nintendo would prefer the latency benefits of DDR3 in any case. Furthermore, having it as a common pool is cheaper, makes things easier on developers, and allows Nintendo to free up RAM from the OS for games with firmware upgrades down the line.

(09-09-2012, 02:51 AM) (Link)


Those of us who posted regularly in the Wii U speculation threads were almost unanimous in agreeing that DDR3 was by far the most likely candidate for the system's RAM.

 

[cyberheater]

Yes.

So this will help in terms of virtually free AA and other IQ enhancements.

Will this also help relative to GPGPU?

 

[Reiko]

I can assure you that I'm more disappointed by WiiU then you are.

I've still pre-ordered it (in the UK) because I believe that Ninty will deliver some amazing games for it.

On exclusives... Do you think Wii U will see very high fidelity games like Uncharted 3 or Halo 4?

Or very high quality artsy games? The former does involve throwing lots of money around... IMO

I mean Nintendoland does look impressive for 60fps, if that's a starting point.

 

[Interferon]

1GB is an immense ammount dedicated just (?) for the console OS. AFAIK, 360 uses just 32 MB RAM footprint for it's OS, and it can manage most of the stuff, excluding the browser and apps.
Also, I really don't get why they loose the money for every single console sold. Maybe it's the new disc format..

 

[StrangeADT]

I can assure you that I'm more disappointed by WiiU then you are.

I've still pre-ordered it (in the UK) because I believe that Ninty will deliver some amazing games for it.

Fair enough. I just feel so deflated that the first console release in 6 years results in this. I'll take a wait and see approach. I'm not sure how much 32MB of edram can do for the system as a whole. Seems like developers are going to have to pull some memory management-fu if that's really where they need to put all high performance assets.

 

[Eaten By A Grue]

Also, I really don't get why they loose the money for every single console sold. Maybe it's the new disc format..

Rounded edges, each disc sandpapered by Iwata.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I can assure you that I'm more disappointed by WiiU then you are.

I've still pre-ordered it (in the UK) because I believe that Ninty will deliver some amazing games for it.

They learned nothing from the wii in terms of selling to hardcore gamers. They had the perfect window too! 360/ps3 are old, no new consoles announced and the wii has been dead for a few years. The wii u will be sucessful i think but they could have dominated if they actually tried.

 

[USC-fan]

Not one to call people out publicly but I'd love to hear StevieP, bgassassin, wsippel, and all of the other speculation thread regulars' take on this. All those months of debating and defending down the tubes. Memory speed is a huge issue, devs have said it's always been a big bottleneck for this gen, and to actually have slower RAM than 6-7 year old consoles... is this real life.

Edram is the new gpgpu.

 

[Reiko]

Fair enough. I just feel so deflated that the first console release in 6 years results in this. I'll take a wait and see approach. I'm not sure how much 32MB of edram can do for the system as a whole. Seems like developers are going to have to pull some memory management-fu if that's really where they need to put all high performance assets.

I think Platinum Games is up to the task.

 

[TunaLover]

Also, don't forget, besides frame buffer (which will use the edram), textures are one of the main bandwidth hogs. And we have heard from devs that Nintendo has employed a few texture compression tricks that could ease that load a bit.

Yep, there's a function than can shave off texture memory load, it's up to developers use them to get the most of the system though.

 

[cyberheater]

On exclusives... Do you think Wii U will see very high fidelity games like Uncharted 3 or Halo 4?

Or very high quality artsy games? The former does involve throwing lots of money around... IMO

I mean Nintendoland does look impressive for 60fps, if that's a starting point.

Yes I do. I expect the top tier first party games on WiiU to look absolutely stunning. For example. When you see the Zelda WiiU demo. There is no reason why the whole game can't look as least as good if not better then that.

 

[Joni]

Ofc they care about third party games,why do you think they got bayonetta 2,wonderful 101,ng3:razor's edge as exclusives?

Two out of three ain't third party. It isn't third-party if Nintendo funds and publishes it.

 

[Triple U]

Wow they actually went with DDR3? And only a gig available to games? Its like the Wii all over again. Nintendo has pretty good developers so I don't see them having too much trouble but I can see third parties getting pissed off.

EDram is whatever. I don't see much use outside of a FB.

 

[Doc Holliday]

(07-05-2012, 11:50 PM)

Those of us who posted regularly in the Wii U speculation threads were almost unanimous in agreeing that DDR3 was by far the most likely candidate for the system's RAM.

Damn ! Pretty spot on!

 

[jman2050]

Right, but it's disappointing that better quality isn't easily attainable in hardware released 6 years after current gen stuff. This shouldn't be a matter of talent. It should be easy. 6 years in hardware terms is FOREVER. In 2006, the high end GPU was a Geforce 7900 series. That's terrible hardware now. It's such a huge difference that I can't even really find comparable benchmarks. Doom 3 was the "heavy" game back in 2006. You realize the amount of progress we've made from Doom 3 right?

I guess this is only partially related to this post and more of a general response, but a common misconception people seem to have is that additional power can "make up" for unoptimized and/or poorly programmed code all other things being equal. This isn't even remotely true in all or even most cases.

The thing is, regardless of how powerful any system is the overall technical quality of a game is still a matter of time and talent foremost.

 

[lostinblue]

Are we really overeacting on this?


Bandwidth is only part of the story, latency and system paralelism being the rest (and Nintendo often focusing on the latter two)


Pretty certain this behaves better than the PS3/X360 solutions otherwise devs would have been complaining about it for eons now.

 

[Thraktor]

Question: If, by these details, the system is botched/weaker, what going to be the reaction if/when we learn that the system's eDRAM provides several times more bandwidth than that of PS3, for example? Will we use that to determine that this "weaker" console is actually several times more powerful than PS3? This weird logic should work both ways right? Oh wait, no? Guys, play fair!

The eDRAM in the Wii U could well have 10x the bandwidth of the PS3's GDDR3.

 

[jett]

Welp.

Does anyone seriously think the Wii U will stand up to next-gen consoles, still?

 

[Reiko]

Welp.

Does anyone seriously think the Wii U will stand up to next-gen consoles, still?

From the specs and the launch games?

It's going to take some Naughty Dog level coding to get games like Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 looking acceptable on the Wii U...

 

[Deadbeat]

Welp.

Does anyone seriously think the Wii U will stand up to next-gen consoles, still?

The question is how powerful will the other next gen consoles be and what their prices will be. Im not buying a 600 dollar console and neither is anyone else. That was proven already by the market.

 

[fly high ~ayunite~]

Can we upgrade the RAM with faster RAM and will it make any difference

 

[Triple U]

Welp.

Does anyone seriously think the Wii U will stand up to next-gen consoles, still?

I never did.

The question is how powerful will the other next gen consoles be and what their prices will be. Im not buying a 600 dollar console and neither is anyone else. That was proven already by the market.

You don't have to build a $600 machine to lap this 2-3x over. Not even close.

 

[Reiko]

The question is how powerful will the other next gen consoles be and what their prices will be.

We already have a few clues. From the rumor that EA/Dice have yet to comment on...

Battlefield 4 will run at 60fps on Orbis/Durango. PS3/360... 30fps.

I don't see Wii U hitting the 60fps target.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Can we upgrade the RAM with faster RAM and will it make any difference

Why would the ram be upgrade able on a console?

 

[TunaLover]

Welp.

Does anyone seriously think the Wii U will stand up to next-gen consoles, still?

On brute force alone, no. It could get "similar" visuals if developers use all the tricks available, and makes for ground up code for it.

 

[thirty]

I for one welcome our Wii60 overlord.