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[Fredrik]

PS3 it is built-in port

Xbox 360 have to get that separate dongle shown elsewhere in this thread

Xbox 360 slim has it built-in too.

 

[Instro]

Probably, but most people don't change their recievers every 4-5 years. Many did when digital audio came along but there hasn't been any revolutionary tech since then so unless you're a hifi nerd you're probably still using your trusty old non-HDMI DTS/DD/5.1 capable reciever, just like me. And that's why basically every other digital audio capable unit still have optical or coax audio connectors too. But apparently Wii U don't.

I dont have one that supports HDMI either actually, I was just trying to figure how big an issue it actually would be. Presumably a lot of people would have ones that are, if they have been around for quite a while. Regardless I'm sure there will be some solution, either by way of Nintendo working it into the console, or simply by offering a some sort dongle. It's not something I'm particularly concerned about atm with the console still a year out.

 

[Angry Fork]

I use a monitor but my speakers on there are shit so instead of HDMI audio I use optical for a separate surround sound system.

It just seems so obvious to include it as an option because not everyone's TV has great speakers and you'd have to split HDMI somehow if you use one for TV and one for surround sound coming out of 1 console.

 

[Fantasy Final]

it doesnt even have ethernet dude

who cares about audio

it doesnt have ETHERNET

There's no reason to use Ethernet over WiFi now. I play TF2 over wifi with less than 50 ping while my buddy is playing WoW at the same time.

 

[FyreWulff]

it comes on every new Xbox 360 console currently sold in stores.

Oh, didn't know they put it on the slim. Still, not sure why you'd use it with the HDMI port right there. And if they already have HDMI audio working, it wouldn't take much for a third party or Nintendo to make a dongle for it.

Seems much ado about a console that's still in development though. If console specs stayed firm this far out from a potential release, the PS3 would still have a bajillion ports and act as a router.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Oh, didn't know they put it on the slim. Still, not sure why you'd use it with the HDMI port right there.

HAVE YOU MISSED THE ENTIRE FUCKING THREAD???

 

[markot]

Hmm. I think wifi and ethernet should be standard, not one or the other... Both, together!

 

[Persona7]

PS3 it is built-in port

Xbox 360 have to get that separate dongle shown elsewhere in this thread

The 360 component cable has the optical port built into it and not on the console itself.

The dongle is for people who use HDMI on the on the older non-slim consoles

 

[Woo-Fu]

There's no reason to use Ethernet over WiFi now.

Sure there is, namely interference.

You can remove most of the potential for interference if you live in a house but if you're in an apartment building you might find yourself switching channels on a regular basis just to find one that doesn't sing a duet with your neighbor's microwave oven.

 

[The Faceless Master]

The 360 component cable has the optical port built into it and not on the console itself.

The dongle is for people who use HDMI on the on the older non-slim consoles

yeah, the S-Video and VGA cables have it built in as well. dunno about the euro cables like SCART and whatnot...

 

[Persona7]

There's no reason to use Ethernet over WiFi now. I play TF2 over wifi with less than 50 ping while my buddy is playing WoW at the same time.

Joke post?

 

[Emitan]

There's no reason to use Ethernet over WiFi now. I play TF2 over wifi with less than 50 ping while my buddy is playing WoW at the same time.

There are so many wireless devices in my house that I don't want to put anything else on the router I don't have to. I have a whole elaborate setup just so I can connect my PS3 through ethernet despite the fact that it has Wi-Fi.

 

[Medalion]

If we wanna keep the price of Wii U competitive against the 360 and PS3 some sacrifices are gonna be made

 

[Woo-Fu]

Still, not sure why you'd use it with the HDMI port right there.

You'd use it because the ~$6k Denon amp that you've had since your early 20s---and still works wonderfully---doesn't have HDMI switching but does have a bunch of toslink inputs.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Joke post?

to be fair, it's probably true on the Wii U.

on other consoles, where you can do things like stream HD video over your LAN, there's a good reasons to use Ethernet.

 

[IllumiNate]

Can't believe some of you don't know what optical audio is, it's as if I stepped into a GT forum

 

[markot]

But with more and more things using wifi, some routers have limited 'points', so its just meh imo >.<

I much prefer to plug it in if its stationary.

 

[FyreWulff]

to be fair, it's probably true on the Wii U.

on other consoles, where you can do things like stream HD video over your LAN, there's a good reasons to use Ethernet.

Wireless N is going to be more than enough for that. They'll probably just release another USB-> Ethernet adapter again if it actually ends up with no ethernet port.

 

[Medalion]

I wonder WHEN the hell we're going to get more concrete stuff about the Wii U instead of all this speculation, don't want to have to wait a month before launch before we see it again

 

[ape2man]

There's no reason to use Ethernet over WiFi now. I play TF2 over wifi with less than 50 ping while my buddy is playing WoW at the same time.

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

 

[Fantasy Final]

Joke post?

For gaming and consoles, no. All my consoles and my PC is wireless and they are superfast with low ping.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Wireless N is going to be more than enough for that. They'll probably just release another USB-> Ethernet adapter again if it actually ends up with no ethernet port.

it's more than fast enough, just not reliable enough.

 

[Threi]

Don't most TVs have optical audio out?

afaik most tvs downconvert hdmi audio to 2 channel when passing through the optical jack.

it only outputs surround when used with the digital TV tuner.

 

[The Faceless Master]

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

are you kidding? <1ms difference

 

[FyreWulff]

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

The amount of time it takes to encrypt the communication is laughably small, unless you're using ancient hardware that's doing everything on the software level. Using WPA2-AES is not going to make the difference while playing Counterstrike. Your ISP's latency and amount of network hops to get to the outside net are bigger factors.

 

[Cipherr]

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

So I take it, that its been a while since you have used WiFi then?

 

[Woo-Fu]

are you kidding? <1ms difference

Depends on the router.

A lot of the routers that first shipped with WPA2 don't really have the horsepower to do WPA2 and everything else they do, at least not on a connection with double digit utilization. I've got an old netgear for emergencies where DHCP times out if it is running WPA2 and somebody is streaming video while you're trying to get a lease.

If you run something like DD-WRT you can see just how much load WPA2 is adding. That router spends most of its time between 2 and 8 when running WPA2 which is horrible for a *nix box.

 

[Fredrik]

Can't believe some of you don't know what optical audio is

Lol my thought too. What were they using before HDMI to get digital audio working? You only had two techs afaik, it was either optical or coax, and coax wasn't the popular one.

 

[Medalion]

When I was introduced to the concept of a Digital Audio port it was the TOSLINK first, I didn't know about this Digital Coaxial till much later and wondering why the cable looked so much like a regular analog cable connector

 

[BocoDragon]

Lol my thought too. What were they using before HDMI to get digital audio working? You only had two techs afaik, it was either optical or coax, and coax wasn't the popular one.

I imagine surround sound in general is kind of nichey in real world use. Especially people who have surround sound setup correctly.

When I was introduced to the concept of a Digital Audio port it was the TOSLINK first, I didn't know about this Digital Coaxial till much later and wondering why the cable looked so much like a regular analog cable connector

In retrospect, there was nothing about a digital cable that was required to be sexy "optical audio". "....it travels at the SPEED OF LIGHT bros!". Simple coaxial (aka "RCA cable") digital connection was just as good. I wonder if it was a marketing gimmick to go with that "sexy sounding" tech. Charge more for exotic glass cables, etc.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Especially people who have surround sound setup correctly.

Which is next to nobody because few people build a room properly for surround sound.

 

[ape2man]

So I take it, that its been a while since you have used WiFi then?

yes, every thing needs to go through the TUBESSSSS...

 

[BocoDragon]

Which is next to nobody because few people build a room properly for surround sound.

True. But hell, I don't even trust people to even connect their audio sources with the correct digital connections, or to position their speakers correctly.

We've all heard the stories of people with HDTVs connecting to their Blu-ray players with composite cables

 

[boyshine]

HDMI supports digital audio. That's enough.

I have an older receiver with only optical/coaxial digital inputs too... and while it would be nice if Nintendo supported them, I think those days are past. I think it's fair to support HDMI-only in 2012.

If most people bought separate receivers yes, but they don't. They buy home cinema sets with combined dvd/bd players and receivers, which for the most part only have optical + 2x RCA in and composite/component + hdmi out. To connect any 5.1 source to these you need an optical cable (or coax, but that's not relevant for gaming). A lot of gamers also use PC surround sets like the Z-series from Logitech, and they don't support hdmi audio either.

 

[walking fiend]

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

sorry dude, but you ABSOLUTELY don't know what you are talking about.

Depends on the router.

A lot of the routers that first shipped with WPA2 don't really have the horsepower to do WPA2 and everything else they do, at least not on a connection with double digit utilization. I've got an old netgear for emergencies where DHCP times out if it is running WPA2 and somebody is streaming video while you're trying to get a lease.

If you run something like DD-WRT you can see just how much load WPA2 is adding. That router spends most of its time between 2 and 8 when running WPA2 which is horrible for a *nix box.

I challenge someone here to actually provide data using his/her router that causes ~8ms o f lag on any type of personal wireless at any normal distance

it's a discussion done to death; unless by wireless access point you mean something you use at your coffee shop or dorm, there's NO WAY for a latency of 8ms to be caused merely by switching from wire to wireless, I doubt you can do even that even by fucking up the settings the worst you can as long as it is functional

the problem with wireless is mostly of reliability, and that is something that happens very rarely unless under serious interfering conditions, or with a malfunctioning router

 

[Cipherr]

yes, every thing needs to go through the TUBESSSSS...

Im just saying man, I have a lot of stuff wired through ethernet when I can also. But you can definitely get quality gaming these days through WiFi with half decent equipment. Wireless isnt the devil anymore.

Cept for inputs. Ill still never game on a wireless mouse or keyboard. Pry these cords from my cold dead hands.

 

[Xavien]

Don't really understand this thread, both receivers that I've bought in the past 3 years have HDMI inputs for lossless sound, i hate to say it guys but optical/toslink cables and outputs are obsolete nowadays.

The maximum standard that optical/toslink can support is DTS purely down to bitrate issues.

If most people bought separate receivers yes, but they don't. They buy home cinema sets with combined dvd/bd players and receivers, which for the most part only have optical + 2x RCA in and composite/component + hdmi out. To connect any 5.1 source to these you need an optical cable (or coax, but that's not relevant for gaming). A lot of gamers also use PC surround sets like the Z-series from Logitech, and they don't support hdmi audio either.

Very first receiver i bought was part of one these sets, it came with 4 hdmi inputs, if you bought a home cinema set without hdmi recently, its your own fault.

 

[ape2man]

sorry dude, but you ABSOLUTELY don't know what you are talking about.


I challenge someone here to actually provide data using his/her router that causes ~8ms o f lag on any type of personal wireless at any normal distance

it's a discussion done to death; unless by wireless access point you mean something you use at your coffee shop or dorm, there's NO WAY for a latency of 8ms to be caused merely by switching from wire to wireless, I doubt you can do even that even by fucking up the settings the worst you can as long as it is functional

the problem with wireless is mostly of reliability, and that is something that happens very rarely unless under serious interfering conditions, or with a malfunctioning router

http://www.epitiro.com/
" "Our data shows that connectivity over Wi-Fi degrades broadband performance considerably in typical circumstances," JP Curley, CTO of Epitiro, said in the report. "Consumers who are experiencing performance issues with Wi-Fi should take steps to improve their home environment or connect directly via wired Ethernet."

Epitiro's research -- based on reports from 14,001 users in the UK, USA, Italy and Spain -- states consumers lose an average of 30 percent of download speed and face an increase in latency of 10-20 percent when using Wi-Fi connections in the home. Such applications as on-line gaming, VoIP telephony and video streaming are potentially impacted using Wi-Fi and downloading large files such as MP3s, videos and programs will take longer."

Ok, they say nothing about encryption. But everything about interference

 

[Fredrik]

I imagine surround sound in general is kind of nichey in real world use. Especially people who have surround sound setup correctly.

I don't get that. Personally I think the sound is just as important, if not more so, than the resolution that everybody is so interested in. People count the pixels on the screen when comparing PS3/360 games but they don't mind having the sound coming from the TV speakers. It's so weird. In my opinion it's the sound that makes the games come to life, makes the immersion better.

But... I guess I need to get used to wasting games like that if Nintendo don't bother including an optical audio connection. I won't buy a new reciever just for one console.

 

[Always-honest]

Hopefully they'll sell a cable like microsoft did. Or third party...

 

[walking fiend]

http://www.epitiro.com/
" "Our data shows that connectivity over Wi-Fi degrades broadband performance considerably in typical circumstances," JP Curley, CTO of Epitiro, said in the report. "Consumers who are experiencing performance issues with Wi-Fi should take steps to improve their home environment or connect directly via wired Ethernet."

Epitiro's research -- based on reports from 14,001 users in the UK, USA, Italy and Spain -- states consumers lose an average of 30 percent of download speed and face an increase in latency of 10-20 percent when using Wi-Fi connections in the home. Such applications as on-line gaming, VoIP telephony and video streaming are potentially impacted using Wi-Fi and downloading large files such as MP3s, videos and programs will take longer."

Ok, they say nothing about encryption. But everything about interference

Download speed is irrelevant to our discussion, and is quite understandable.

Still, as I said, I would like to see some data showing 8ms of latency using wireless connection. Even using this data you provided, it means that there should already be between 40ms-80ms latency there for an increase of 10-20% to result in 8ms, and I really wonder if someone can tell between 48ms or 40ms or 80ms and 88ms.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i can't believe this is still going on!

try pinging the same server 30x from your pc wired, wireless no encryption and wireless wpa2 and watch as the average is the same.

 

[Trojita]

They didn't add an optical audio adapter to the Wii. They are hopeless.

 

[eso76]

Wii U ? Nintendo. Fix this!!

fixed

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't get that. Personally I think the sound is just as important, if not more so, than the resolution that everybody is so interested in. People count the pixels on the screen when comparing PS3/360 games but they don't mind having the sound coming from the TV speakers. It's so weird. In my opinion it's the sound that makes the games come to life, makes the immersion better.

I agree with this. I'd rather have good sound than good picture! Obviously both is best.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

personally I don't give a crap, but hope Nintendo implements this

 

[Phife Dawg]

Interesting, people still use optical audio. Never thought it would be an issue.

Sure there is, namely interference.

You can remove most of the potential for interference if you live in a house but if you're in an apartment building you might find yourself switching channels on a regular basis just to find one that doesn't sing a duet with your neighbor's microwave oven.

I live in an apartment building and have no problem with interference and judging from all the networks showing up in my connections pretty much all my neighbours have a wifi network as well.

thats bullshit, wifi lags.

a. WEP encryption does.
b. no body uses wep because its hacked in 5 minutes.
c. WPA is better but lags even more (more encryption)
d. WPA2 is even more laggy.

plus you have signal interferrence...

so WIFI sucks for gaming.

Gaming over wifi with no problems. I even use a shitty 2MBit dsl line.

 

[Rad-]

My download speed is about 30% slower on Wifi than with Ethernet. There is definitely a difference.

 

[kneePat]

I agree with this. I'd rather have good sound than good picture! Obviously both is best.

Really? While gaming? On a medium which is almost entirely visual? Could you justify this by explaining the quality jump from 2 ch stereo to 5.1 Surround versus PQ going from 480i to 720p+? Some games are unplayable at lower resolutions, and interlacing is a terrible way to watch anything now a days.

Audiophiles and their finely tuned ears make no sense to me

 

[walking fiend]

My download speed is about 30% slower on Wifi than with Ethernet. There is definitely a difference.

its somewhat off-topic. but unless you have something like a 128K connection, speed drop won't matter at all