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[nordique]

Whether or not the Wii U is a "half step" really depends what Microsoft puts into the 720. Since Nintendo is most likely to be under and Sony is most likely to go over, I think the 720 will be what sets the bar for what "next-gen" power is. They could very well release a console that's only a minor step above the Wii U, in which case the Wii U would be a full gen leap.

The thing that always makes me laugh in these next gen threads are people acting as though the specs for MS and Sony's next consoles are set in stone.

Yes, I agree with this.


Just because the next Xbox is coming out later doesn't mean it will even be more powerful than the Wii U, assuming the Wii U specs are somewhat in line with what some posters have outlined -- with a logical and educated basis -- in the past. After all, the original Wii did come out a year after the Xbox 360. As did the PS3. And the Wii had a much different design philosophy, and the PS3 was weaker than the 360 in some (namely GPU related) aspects.


I should have clarified my comments were specific to the context I was replying to that poster with.

 

[guek]

The whole "would people pay blank for an X times leap?" conjecture is typical gaf logic. The market at large simply doesn't concern itself with such things. If you had asked back in 2006 if people would pay $250 for overclocked last gen tech, most would have said no. Most did say no. But many people are paying more than that now for 7 yr old tech. And while I by no means intend to use Wii as anything but an exception to the rule, it should indicate that there are other ways to convince consumers to pick up a console. The iPad and apple products are another great example of people paying money for something other than hardware. On paper, paying $2k for what apple shoves into their macbooks sounds absolutely inasane, but people gladly gobble up those products en mass. Microsoft seems to be slowly understanding how this works. Sony, I'm not so sure about...

 

[botty]

Nintendo has to market Wii U the same way Apple markets their products: If you don't have our products, then what's wrong with you?

Reggie knows what's up.

 

[Roo]

The whole "would people pay blank for an X times leap?" conjecture is typical gaf logic. The market at large simply doesn't concern itself with such things. If you had asked back in 2006 if people would pay $250 for overclocked last gen tech, most would have said no. Most did say no. But many people are paying more than that now for 7 yr old tech. And while I by no means intend to use Wii as anything but an exception to the rule, it should indicate that there are other ways to convince consumers to pick up a console. The iPad and apple products are another great example of people paying money for something other than hardware. On paper, paying $2k for what apple shoves into their macbooks sounds absolutely inasane, but people gladly gobble up those products en mass. Microsoft seems to be slowly understanding how this works. Sony, I'm not so sure about...

Yeah, I've said it before and I'm saying it again, I don't get Sony's obsession with power trying to make people belive they're the shit in that aspect. I mean... what's the benefit for the brand? They lose billions and billions, yet they know in advance Nintendo can't bleed money like them and most likely Microsoft gives two shits about it.
They got themselves in a corner because now, Sony fans are expecting a huge leap in graphics like this gen and if Sony doesn't deliver in that department, bleeding billions again, fans are not gonna be pleased, hence no buy because it doesn't worth it.


Brilliant business model, I have to say *sarcasm*

Sometimes I believe Nintendo has a crystal ball and they planned everything since the Gamecube knowing the graphic wall was around the corner.
Now that there's nothing new from the competition, it's time to let the Nintendo kids come out to play =P

 

[bgassassin]

Right. What I meant was that since that time we've heard other devs like Team Ninja say that the specs were changing. In other words, it's improving over what was said in that interview.

Gotcha.

Okay. You have my word I won't mention it again after this. I just have to clarify though. Are you saying that Wii U might not be able to display games like CoD, NFS:HP or Crysis 2 at 1080p?

That will be up to what the devs want first and foremost. And as time passes what they want might not allow Wii U to pull it off effectively at 1080p. Seems to me the main reason why Reggie was able to check the 1080p box was due to target specs claim that the eDRAM was able to do 1080p in a single pass. Doesn't mean much if devs prefer 720p.

I'm still holding onto hope that Nintendo has decided to upgrade the Wii U's GPU to a full RV770 with a 800:16:32 configuration. It would provide that nice half step up from PS360, even though it wouldn't be as powerful as Xbox3/PS4.

I'd rather see it have as little to do with the R700 line as possible. One other nitpick I had with the Zelda demo was the lack of tessellation. And the R700 tess unit is not a good one.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I'd rather see it have as little to do with the R700 line as possible. One other nitpick I had with the Zelda demo was the lack of tessellation. And the R700 tess unit is not a good one.

Well wasn't that the rumor with Project Cafe, that it would be using a GPU from the R700 line? Have things changed that much from last April or whenever Project Cafe was reported?

 

[bgassassin]

Well wasn't that the rumor with Project Cafe, that it would be using a GPU from the R700 line? Have things changed that much from last April or whenever Project Cafe was reported?

The dev kit had an R700 GPU. That doesn't (hopefully) mean the final will resemble that.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Interesting article about "Bells and Whistles" vs "Unfathomable Cosmic Power" as a design paradigm and the future of consoles. A section on Iwata in here too and Nintendo's plans for the Wii U and how that will affect Sony and Microsoft going forward. An interesting read.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/xbox-720-how-microsoft-could-determine-sonys-fate/

I'll leave it up to someone else to fullquote and bold up the article.

 

[royalan]

Yes, I agree with this.


Just because the next Xbox is coming out later doesn't mean it will even be more powerful than the Wii U, assuming the Wii U specs are somewhat in line with what some posters have outlined -- with a logical and educated basis -- in the past. After all, the original Wii did come out a year after the Xbox 360. As did the PS3. And the Wii had a much different design philosophy, and the PS3 was weaker than the 360 in some (namely GPU related) aspects.


I should have clarified my comments were specific to the context I was replying to that poster with.

Yeah, and there's plenty of indication that the next Xbox is coming out sooner rather than later. If that IGN rumor is to be believed (and they're usually right when it comes to next-gen console rumors), then chips for the final 720 dev kits have already been made. For the sake of comparison, there are devs who haven't even gotten final Wii U dev kits yet, and that's a console that we know is launching this year.

I fully believe that we'll have the 720 before holiday 2013, and it won't be a monumental leap in the same way this gen was. From everything I've read, I truly believe next gen is going to be about releasing efficient consoles over bleeding edge. Smaller, sleeker, more stable, and more competitively-priced from the very beginning. MS and Sony will want to reduce the pressure they felt this gen to do several redesigns and cut features to bring the costs down as quickly as possible. I'll bet anything that their goal is to release a machine that "just works" from the jump. And, if that's the case, I don't think Nintendo will have anything to worry about (well, unless Arkam was right, and Nintendo's going for sub-360 hardware that will have to be split between two screens).

Next gen won't be about power. And if people don't like it, they can always become PC gamers...lol

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The thing that will keep the 360 innards not as good as they could be, is the fact that they'll probably bundle in kinect 2.0 (and possibly a tablet controller?). And I don't see MS wanting to sell anything at a loss. It'll be better than the wiiU by virtue of the fact that it's coming a little/lot later depending on when it comes out, but I'm thinking a lot of developers are gonna be surprised when it comes out and isn't as strong as they assumed it would be.

Sony is the only wild card though, especially because they don't have to bundle in something as expensive as kinect, they might have more leeway to make something considerably 'stronger', but they just as easily could opt for lower price at launch to keep up with the other 2.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Is there any info on playing classic games on the WiiU? It would be great to be able to play those on the tablet while others people are using the tv. Can you take all the games you bought on the Wii to the WiiU for example.

Nothing's confirmed yet, but my guess is nearly all Wii VC will transfer to Wii U (bar maybe those that were delisted like TMNT NES or R-Type SMS) and that they'll allow Upad play. My hope is that they'll also add 3DS VC style save states.

 

[dc89]

Would be awesome. I'm counting on it. The way Miyamoto worded it, the game was allready in some form on the Wii.

“Originally, I was making Pikmin 3 to be launched on the Wii platform. Because the Wii U is capable of HD quality pictures, and will be accompanied by the subscreen on your hand. I thought that I would be able to make a Pikmin that was closer to my ideal. I am now actually enjoying myself, working on the game.”

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462944&highlight=

That's what he said about it recently. Such a tease.

 

[guek]

After all the madness that went on in the nintendo direct thread, I'm left wishing they made a NEW! Legend of Zelda top down throwback game for Wii U launch. The series definitely needs some sort of shot in the arm for mainstream gamers sooner rather than later.

 

[royalan]

The thing that will keep the 360 innards not as good as they could be, is the fact that they'll probably bundle in kinect 2.0 (and possibly a tablet controller?). And I don't see MS wanting to sell anything at a loss. It'll be better than the wiiU by virtue of the fact that it's coming a little/lot later depending on when it comes out, but I'm thinking a lot of developers are gonna be surprised when it comes out and isn't as strong as they assumed it would be.

Not only that, but MS has another reason to keep costs and price-point low next gen: Apple. Think about it: MS originally got into the gaming business to create another revenue stream and to keep Sony from dominating the home entertainment industry. Now Apple poses a very similar threat with Apple TV combined with their tablet/smartphone services. Granted, Apple is a long ways away from any meaningful penetration of the home entertainment industry, but Microsoft's learned by now that you can't leave Apple unchecked for too long, because they will eventually get it. And when they do, it's usually too late.

The livingroom is the one new frontier where Microsoft undeniably has Apple whipped with the strength of their gaming and Live services, and you better believe they're going to want to keep it that way. Expect the next xbox to be smaller, sleeker, less "geek toy" in appearance, and more closely tied to their Live services. I'm also expecting the 360 to get a drastic redesign and priced to directly compete with Apple TV, as well.

Sony is the only wild card though, especially because they don't have to bundle in something as expensive as kinect, they might have more leeway to make something considerably 'stronger', but they just as easily could opt for lower price at launch to keep up with the other 2.

Sony's going to have to figure something out, because between the Wii U tablet controller and Kinect, next gen is quickly becoming more about unique functionality over raw power. And well, on the front they've got nothin. Nothing anybody cares about, anyway...

 

[Rösti]

I noticed that Bergsala AB (Nintendo's general agent in Scandinavia) has on their official webpage written this about Wii U:

Lanseras i Sverige maj-december 2012

Bara så du vet, Wii U finns inte än (förutom hos Nintendo i Japan då förstås) utan lanseras tidigast i maj 2012, senast december samma år.

Source: http://www.nintendo.se/wiiu/wiiu

Translation (by me, I'm Swedish):

Launching in Sweden May-December 2012

Just so you know, Wii U is not available yet (expect for at Nintendo in Japan of course) and won't be launched until earliest in May 2012, latest in December the same year.

The webmaster seems to have put some really strange script on this page as I can't access any reliable update information via a Javascript query, so I don't know when it was last updated. Bergsala AB is however Nintendo Co., Ltd.'s oldest export customer and should know a few things in the works. So for them to write May in this context I find really strange. Seeing as E3 starts on the 5th of June (well, it should actually start a day before with the press conferences, but the expo starts on the 5th). Could be just a misprint of course, which is most likely, but you never know.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

After all the madness that went on in the nintendo direct thread, I'm left wishing they made a NEW! Legend of Zelda top down throwback game for Wii U launch. The series definitely needs some sort of shot in the arm for mainstream gamers sooner rather than later.

So take it back to its most oblique?

 

[guek]

So take it back to its most oblique?

Eh, more like LTTP and less like LoZ. I just think it'd be a throwback that would resonate with a lot of gamers if done properly. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

After Anouma's tease though, I'm certain we'll see zelda in some form at E3, most likely on the 3DS

 

[herzogzwei1989]

The dev kit had an R700 GPU. That doesn't (hopefully) mean the final will resemble that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more for Wii U to have a DX11-class (OpenGL of course) GPU with great tessellation.

 

[AzaK]

100 post per page ftw.


Unless you use GAF gold, then it is 200 post per page.

GAF Gold?

 

[Throwaway123456789]

I noticed that Bergsala AB (Nintendo's general agent in Scandinavia) has on their official webpage written this about Wii U:

Source: http://www.nintendo.se/wiiu/wiiu

Translation (by me, I'm Swedish):

The webmaster seems to have put some really strange script on this page as I can't access any reliable update information via a Javascript query, so I don't know when it was last updated. Bergsala AB is however Nintendo Co., Ltd.'s oldest export customer and should know a few things in the works. So for them to write May in this context I find really strange. Seeing as E3 starts on the 5th of June (well, it should actually start a day before with the press conferences, but the expo starts on the 5th). Could be just a misprint of course, which is most likely, but you never know.

Bergsala knows shit all. They're one of the most hilariously backwards companies I have to deal with, and their norwegian site even says "We don't even know what the console itself looks like - it's all about the controller!" under the Wii U part of the site.

GAF Gold?

It's pretty rad.

 

[bgassassin]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more for Wii U to have a DX11-class (OpenGL of course) GPU with great tessellation.

Oh I understood your intent. If they were going to use an RV770, then use the best one. I agree. I was acknowledging that there are deficiencies that come with it so I hope the final resembles it at little as possible.

 

[Disorientator]

Wii U Music, game mode possibility?

 

[Rösti]

Bergsala knows shit all. They're one of the most hilariously backwards companies I have to deal with, and their norwegian site even says "We don't even know what the console itself looks like - it's all about the controller!" under the Wii U part of the site.

Intriguing. I trade with them, and their Swedish department is pretty knowledgeable I think. But they have had some internal problems arising in later years, that much I know.

 

[guek]

Wii U Music, game mode possibility?

That'd be pretty awful with single touch though

 

[Disorientator]

That'd be pretty awful with single touch though

Good point.

(single touch is confirmed?)

 

[guek]

Good point.

(Single touch is confirmed?)

It's most likely at the point. It'll be resistive for sure, and while there are ways it could potentially be multi-touch (with the possibility even being stated in the patent), it's unlikely due to costs.

 

[burntchomsky]

Eh, more like LTTP and less like LoZ. I just think it'd be a throwback that would resonate with a lot of gamers if done properly. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

After Anouma's tease though, I'm certain we'll see zelda in some form at E3, most likely on the 3DS

That would be pretty cool. I got pretty bored with Phantom Hourglass after awhile. The really nice thing about LTTP is that I think it still works very well as a 2012 release. That game was excessively polished and "modern" in its design for its time.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It's not like Retro doing a Zelda would stop the current Zelda team from doing one, too--it took them five years to go from Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword; it wouldn't have been a problem if some other group's take on Zelda was released in 2008 or 2009.

EAD3 also developed 3 additional games in that 5 years though, it's not like it takes them 5 full years to put out a console Zelda. With Grezzo likely being groomed to take over the franchise on handhelds, I think we could see EAD3's turnaround significantly shorten for Zelda Wii U versus what it was on Wii.

 

[lednerg]

...
The wiimote doesn't have so much of a precision problem for what it is; but it'll have it on HD resolutions; for starters the pixel per pixel accuracy of the camera is 1024x768 which is perfectly fine for 480p anamorphic resolutions, but lacking for 720p pixel per pixel pointing let alone 1080p.

There are a lot of software tricks that can be used to get around hardware limitations, effectively making them undetectable to the end user. For instance, I've written scripts for the WM+ that let you use it as a mouse on any resolution screen. You can make up for the lack of IR precision by combining it with the gyroscope or smoothing the motion of the cursor with a low-pass filter (or both). Also, for gaming, you really don't need pixel-perfect precision; it's not like you have to shoot enemies that are only 1 pixel wide.

To make things worse, the controller often needs to be recalibrated when using wiimotion plus because the camera looses sight of the sensor bar for too long; the PSMove avoids this by having a huge colored ball protuding from the controller so the camera always see's it, but the wiimote isn't designed like that the camera is inside the controller stuck inside the black plastic on top; if the angle isn't ideal (as in pointing into the telly) then it's only normal for it to get lost eventually.
...

A big problem with gyroscopes is that over time, as the batteries drain, they spin slower and slower. This gets interpreted by the controller as a gradual turning motion, known as drift. To compensate for this, you need to use a stable point of reference such as the Wii's sensor bar or the PSMove/Wii U's compass (or you can just force people to recalibrate over and over). This fixed location should be checked against the gyroscope's readings at regular intervals. If you are seeing drift in a game that uses gyroscopes, then the developer failed to do this.

The point is, most if not all of the issues with motion controllers can be addressed via software. Nintendo needs to make sure that their SDK includes a better implementation of the IR/MotionPlus combination than whatever the Wii SDK had.

 

[Conor 419]

I kinda hope that Retro are working on a Zelda game, just so we'll get a Zelda that's technically competitive, which they haven't been for quite some time.

 

[guek]

I kinda hope that Retro are working on a Zelda game, just so we'll get a Zelda that's technically competitive, which they haven't been for quite some time.

Wha? There's absolutely zero reason why an EAD developed Zelda wouldn't be just as visually impressive as a retro project. The biggest thing that might separate the two potential projects would be art direction.

 

[ElFly]

Eh, more like LTTP and less like LoZ. I just think it'd be a throwback that would resonate with a lot of gamers if done properly. Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

After Anouma's tease though, I'm certain we'll see zelda in some form at E3, most likely on the 3DS

Four Swords Adventures is a thing that exists.

 

[StevieP]

I kinda hope that Retro are working on a Zelda game, just so we'll get a Zelda that's technically competitive, which they haven't been for quite some time.

Wind Waker looks better than most of this gen's "HD games" (ugh what a stupid term).

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I kinda hope that Retro are working on a Zelda game, just so we'll get a Zelda that's technically competitive, which they haven't been for quite some time.

I'll say it again...nintendo already explicitly said that the next zeda will push the hardware. Also since when has it NOT done that.

 

[Roo]

Wii U Music, game mode possibility?

that looks...laborious

Spoiler

Mario Kart 7 Music Park track as retro track for Mario Kart 8 confirmed!!!

 

[TunaLover]

I'll say it again...nintendo already explicitly said that the next zeda will push the hardware. Also since when has it NOT done that.

I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to spend big amounts of cash to make a highly detailed Zelda, I doubt they will go with an open world Zelda, it will probably be a more closed world with nice graphics.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to spend big amounts of cash to make a highly detailed Zelda, I doubt they will go with an open world Zelda, it will probably be a more closed world with nice graphics.

who knowsss, they've never had as many tools to change Zelda as they do with the WiiU.

 

[guek]

I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to spend big amounts of cash to make a highly detailed Zelda, I doubt they will go with an open world Zelda, it will probably be a more closed world with nice graphics.

Except they specifically pointed to zelda in a statement talking about certain types games being expected to represent a high level of visual fidelity on the wii u.

 

[11redder]

Wii U Music, game mode possibility?

Reminds of this...

 

[Gahiggidy]

Wii U Music, game mode possibility?

That's not a patent for a litteral keyboard game, but a concept where you use the controller to navigate the larger scene on the tv set. Imagine a more practical implementation would be those detective modes in games where you stop and look closely at items on a desk. Could be a pretty neat addition to an LA Noire game.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Orrrrr...!

Nintendo is partnering with Lucas Arts to make "Max Rebo: The Game"!

 

[royalan]

I'm not sure if Nintendo is willing to spend big amounts of cash to make a highly detailed Zelda, I doubt they will go with an open world Zelda, it will probably be a more closed world with nice graphics.

It is for this reason that I'm expecting Zelda to get the Assassin's Creed/Gears/Uncharted trilogy treatment next gen. I'm willing to bet Nintendo will put up the cash upfront to create an epic HD Zelda title, and then re-use the engine/assets for multiple games to get the most return on their dollar.

And I for one have no problem with this. It fits with them saying that they're going to push the hardware with Zelda and that they want the shorten the turnover between entries to the series.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

We might as well just pack it up and lock this thread, guys. Pachter has already proclaimed the Wii U dead because they haven't announced a price so we should stop wasting our time talking specs and launch lineup.

 

[royalan]

We might as well just pack it up and lock this thread, guys. Pachter has already proclaimed the Wii U dead because they haven't announced a price so we should stop wasting our time talking specs and launch lineup.

I'm not touching that thread with a 10-foot pole. Do not pay tribute to the King of Trolls.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I kinda hope that Retro are working on a Zelda game, just so we'll get a Zelda that's technically competitive, which they haven't been for quite some time.

I don't get what you're saying... was Metroid Prime 3 or Donkey Kong Country Returns technically competitive?

 

[Conor 419]

Wind Waker looks better than most of this gen's HD games.

Aye, but either way a 10 year old game is a 10 year old game.

I don't get what you're saying... was Metroid Prime 3 or Donkey Kong Country Returns technically competitive?

What I mean is that we get Zelda games very late in the console cycle. TP arrived alongside Oblivion, SS alongside Skyrim. It'd be nice for them to bash out a new Zelda before the PS4/Nextbox are out, just so we can see a Zelda game that's cutting edge once more.

I'll say it again...nintendo already explicitly said that the next zeda will push the hardware. Also since when has it NOT done that.

They always push hardware, but that doesn't stop the hardware being a limiting factor.

 

[Disorientator]

(6-frame animated gif)

Interesting WiiU pad interactivity concepts, which demonstrate how the pad's various sensors help manipulate objects in a game's 3D space.

Nothing ground-breaking, but cool nevertheless.

 

[guek]

So a thought just occurred to me...

This gen was an odd one with lots of strange going ons. It might be that as consoles become more feature based and less tech driven, our old ideas about the console generation model will begin to change more and more.

Let's say the Wii U has about 2-3x the processing capabilities of the 360 and the Nextbox achieves a respectable 5x bump. I know these vague multipliers are aggravating but bear with me here. My question is if neither the Wii U nor the Nextbox represent a quantum leap in processing power, what is the likelihood that developers will downport their games all the way down to the PS360 for the greater part of the next gen? They would look and run considerably worse but if scaling down is even at all possible, wouldn't this be a fantastic move by developers?

 

[HylianTom]

So a thought just occurred to me...

This gen was an odd one with lots of strange going ons. It might be that as consoles become more feature based and less tech driven, our old ideas about the console generation model will begin to change more and more.

Let's say the Wii U has about 2-3x the processing capabilities of the 360 and the Nextbox achieves a respectable 5x bump. I know these vague multipliers are aggravating but bear with me here. My question is if neither the Wii U nor the Nextbox represent a quantum leap in processing power, what is the likelihood that developers will downport their games all the way down to the PS360 for the greater part of the next gen? They would look and run considerably worse but if scaling down is even at all possible, wouldn't this be a fantastic move by developers?

It might come true out of financial necessity. I don't call them the "Unsustainable Twins" to be glib.

 

[Forsaken82]

So a thought just occurred to me...

This gen was an odd one with lots of strange going ons. It might be that as consoles become more feature based and less tech driven, our old ideas about the console generation model will begin to change more and more.

Let's say the Wii U has about 2-3x the processing capabilities of the 360 and the Nextbox achieves a respectable 5x bump. I know these vague multipliers are aggravating but bear with me here. My question is if neither the Wii U nor the Nextbox represent a quantum leap in processing power, what is the likelihood that developers will downport their games all the way down to the PS360 for the greater part of the next gen? They would look and run considerably worse but if scaling down is even at all possible, wouldn't this be a fantastic move by developers?

I think you are likely to see this happen with only the big multiplatform titles like an EA sports title or a CoD.