Support NeoGAF

[Raistlin]

BTW, are we sure about the 'no PLII'? I guess it requires extra processing to put the surround info into the stereo stream - was that built into the system in Wii or did games do it in software?

It was in software. IIRC, the encoding functionality was available in the SDK, but it's up to a dev to use it (give up the resources for it) and I would assume pay the license to advertise it on the box.

Nintendo made an excuse for not going HD with Wii because 'not everyone has HD' but here they're doing the opposite - assuming too much of peoples' setups.

crazy

What it comes down to is that Nintendo has been very good at getting functionality to work simply when going with a limited subset of features. Now that the writing is on what wall for game-only devices, and they are trying to compete with the big boys in terms of feature sets ... they look to really be out of their element.

In hindsight, this shouldn't be a surprise ... but that doesn't stop if from hurting.

Don't have a Wii U yet but I was wondering if anyone with a audio return channel compatible TV and HTiB system has had success playing surround sound audio?

This should work ... though I'm not sure why you wouldn't just hook the Wii U to your HTiB directly unless it's more starved for HDMI inputs than your TV.

Anyway, what the biggest shame is that my amp upconverts any 5.1 content (PCM or otherwise) to 7.1 using PLIIx, so I was expecting a bigger sound field.

The problem is Nintendo is borking this be sending 5.1 with 'dead' channels for surround and center when the soundtrack is stereo.

The screws up DD and DTS upconversion. Check to see if setting the Wii U to stereo for these games fixes the issue. It's a lame work-around since you have to manage the sound output on a per-game basis ... but it would be the only way to resolve this unless they fix it in FW.

 

[jimi_dini]

You're wrong. LPCM is already full-quality. Most of this thread's nintendo bashing is invalid, because it's due to lack of understanding.

What?

I said the audio chip in the Wii U is not capable of Dolby Digital real-time compression. And that's factually correct. Of course LPCM is "better" because it's uncompressed, but that's not the point. The chip isn't fast enough to do real-time Dolby Digital compression. The one higher up IS capable of doing so, but that would have cost Nintendo more including the license to offer Dolby Digital sound, that's why Wii U is LPCM only. Which also means they can't "patch it in" unless they also use CPU power for Dolby Digital compression. IF they took the faster one, they would have been able to patch it in.

You see - no compression is easier to do than compression. That should be obvious.

By not supporting TOSLINK, Nintendo has actually done a good thing, it's a bottlenecked standard, it'll be outdated soon. Better for everyone to avoid it, and they don't need to pay royalties for licensed formats as well.

Options for consumers are bad. PS3 is terrible, because it supports LPCM, Dolby Digital and DTS. But why did Nintendo include the totally outdated analog AV out then? Costs plenty of money to include that crap. And we should all be happy that by buying just one game, Wii U is profitable. Hell would freeze over, if consumers would have to buy 2 games to make it profitable.

btw. PS4 will include optical or coaxial out, mark my words.

I may just bite the bullet and go for it. Will this work?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2

yes

 

[Raistlin]

Wii U already has a dedicated chip for audio processing. Of course Nintendo went for the cheapest option. It seems one model higher and Dolby Digital on-the-fly encoding would have been possible by using that chip only.

smh

Yeah I just came back from the Wii U specs thread and realized they supposedly have a dedicated DSP for audio. This is pretty lulzworthy.

 

[CLEEK]

Since the OP is taking ages to update the thread here is what I wanted to fix in the FAQ:

Q:What if I use the optical output from my TV and hook that into my receiver/HTiB. I'll get surround then?
A: No. You will just get plain stereo. This is not Nintendo's fault, it may change in future and is up to TV manufacturers.

Ha. Timezones, dude. Give me a break.

Plus, I don't think any of your points are helpful, so won't add them to the FAQ. For the purpose of audio, Optical = Toslink = S/PDIF. It will just confuse matters if you start saying optical (as in, fibre) has bandwidth for HD audio, as in the context of what we're discussing, the actual optical cable and the S/PDIF protocol are the same thing.

 

[JohngPR]

Does anyone here own a Yamaha RX-V471 receiver? Thinking of picking one up since they I saw it on Newegg for $199.99.

 

[Stewox]

Ha. Timezones, dude. Give me a break.

Plus, I don't think any of your points are helpful, so won't add them to the FAQ. For the purpose of audio, Optical = Toslink = S/PDIF. It will just confuse matters if you start saying optical (as in, fibre) has bandwidth for HD audio, as in the context of what we're discussing, the actual optical cable and the S/PDIF protocol are the same thing.

Sorry, I think I waited for 2 days or so ? Okay keep it simple, but it's for other techies who can understand.

What?

I said the audio chip in the Wii U is not capable of Dolby Digital real-time compression. And that's factually correct. Of course LPCM is "better" because it's uncompressed, but that's not the point. The chip isn't fast enough to do real-time Dolby Digital compression. The one higher up IS capable of doing so, but that would have cost Nintendo more including the license to offer Dolby Digital sound, that's why Wii U is LPCM only. Which also means they can't "patch it in" unless they also use CPU power for Dolby Digital compression. IF they took the faster one, they would have been able to patch it in.

You see - no compression is easier to do than compression. That should be obvious.

Okay if you have evidence that the DSP is cheaper.

But my point was, why should we even care about compression? It's unnecessary in my opinion, HD visuals with HD audio should be fantastic.

 

[The Lamonster]

This is so lame. It really solidifies the fact that I'll never get a Wii U now.

 

[Raistlin]

Since the OP is taking ages to update the thread here is what I wanted to fix in the FAQ:

Q:What if I use the optical output from my TV and hook that into my receiver/HTiB. I'll get surround then?
A: No. You will just get plain stereo. This is not Nintendo's fault, it may change in future and is up to TV manufacturers.

How is that not Nintendo's fault? Going into this they knew almost no TV's pass DD/DTS over optical ... let alone actually have an active DD encoder which would be needed in this case.

 

[Raistlin]

Okay if you have evidence that the DSP is cheaper.

Well if it's not cheaper (or worse, more expensive) ... then Nintendo's systems team is beyond dumb.

But my point was, why should we even care about compression? It's unnecessary in my opinion, HD visuals with HD audio should be fantastic.

Because we're being realistic about the actual install base of people with HDMI-audio equipped receivers.

Even if you discount that entirely, it doesn't change the fact the TVii is gimped regardless of what receiver you employ. There is no surround sound for any of the media streaming apps ... no surround sound for TiVo or any other cable/sat/dvr services ... and no surround for local media that uses the codecs in question.

 

[Palette Swap]

By not supporting TOSLINK, Nintendo has actually done a good thing, it's a bottlenecked standard, it'll be outdated soon. Better for everyone to avoid it, and they don't need to pay royalties for licensed formats as well.

In what kind of imaginary scenario is this good for any end user? Because the way I see it:
- your setup doesn't support LPCM over 6 channels and you're fucked -> Bad outcome
- your setup does support it and you don't care -> Neutral outcome
"better for everyone to avoid it" implies you can somehow currently walk into a store and buy a receiver that doesn't support HDMI audio. Except you can't.
The only people who've bought recent hardware and are thoroughly fucked are the ones with headphones. Except they didn't have a choice either since no model on the market goes through HDMI.
That's the state of the ecosystem.

People, who have no tech experience, seem to be praising licensed audio technologies such as Dolby and other stuff, well, that's good to have in stereo

What the hell ? This explanation is totally ass backwards for a guy with "tech experience".
AV users were happy for a long time with the old status quo because:
- LPCM was supported over Stereo, which fit the most important use for no compression: Music. Most music was, and still tends to be, Stereo. Music is definitely the most demanding kind of audio you can get, fidelity wise.
- lossy codecs such as DD and DTS were used for surround sound because they allowed for good fidelity when it came to movies, which weren't as demanding as music.

but LPCM is the best thing, there is no need for any licensed stuff since most of it is lossy, therefore inferior.

I agree. And I also think anything under 1080p is utter shit, so why the hell support these blind guy resolutions?

HDMI has the bandwidth as well as copy protection support.

I'm so so glad to have HDCP, it has changed my end user experience.

All "Licensed Audio Logos" on WiiU Game Boxes are misleading and should not be there. Publisher mistake/ignorance. Instead, a text displaying the channel support should be printed, for example "Audio: LPCM 5.1ch" or "Audio: LCPM 2.0ch"

You do realize if Nintendo actually gave a fuck or had a clue, they'd have set guidelines about what info are supposed to be on boxes? I'd also be very surprised if publishers could push their packaging without checking it with Nintendo first.

In the end, it's up to the game-specific audio file bitrates and codecs that will dictate the quality you hear, nintendo does it's best to avoid bottlenecks , bad audio quality is all developer's fault.

Thank you, really, for addressing non-existent concerns! I have yet to see anyone ITT complaining about audio quality.

But 7.1 is not supported as we can see - this should not be a very big deal at all, quality is more important than channel count.

If channel count isn't an issue, why are you even caring about a surround sound thread?

Even as Nintendo provides support for such throughput and you have a modern HDMI Sorround Setup, if the game files are encoded in crappy 96kb/s .mp3, the audio quality will be shit no matter what you do on the external side. Blame developer

Yeah, we should totally blame developers.
Wait, what for? Have you played any recent game where the game files are "crappy 96kb/s .mp3"? Seriously.

Since the OP is taking ages to update the thread here is what I wanted to fix in the FAQ:

Q:What if I use the optical output from my TV and hook that into my receiver/HTiB. I'll get surround then?
A: No. You will just get plain stereo. This is not Nintendo's fault, it may change in future and is up to TV manufacturers.

I think you might want to bold the fact that it isn't Nintendo's fault, their feelings might be hurt otherwise.
Seriously, what kind of whiny fanboy bullshit is this?
You really think people are contemplating going from their TVs to their receivers because that spontaneously seems like a good idea? They're wondering about that precisely because WiiU won't allow them to plug into their receivers the way they're used to.

As well as some clarifications why TOSLINK is not as good as some think:

This has already been discussed to death and outside of one isolated loon in the old thread, any enthusiast obviously knows it carries bandwidth constraints.
But keep on fighting these windmills, they're menacing.

So basically what everyone of you should do, instead, go spam developer to make better audio code and , most developer care shit about audio and their audio engines are so crap if they increase audio quality framerate goes down a lot,

As above, where the hell is this coming from?

but this will be a lot easier with WiiU's Audio DSP and I just cannot wait to hear the juice, this has to be the best console ever for now. It's also up to sound designers to actually care to not compress the audio and take high-bitrate ogg stuff into the game.

You're babbling. What does OGG have to do with anything? It's a container format. Are you randomly throwing stuff into your posts to make it look techy? I'll agree to one thing though: if the sound source is lossy in the first place, that forced LPCM will probably be useless.

You're wrong. LPCM is already full-quality. Most of this thread's nintendo bashing is invalid, because it's due to lack of understanding.

Dude, you really shouldn't criticize anyone's lack of understanding.

Please, don't hesitate to make up more convoluted fairy tales to explain among other things:
- why Amazon Instant Video being stereo only is a good thing
- why Nintendo games being stereo only makes complete sense and is more immersive for the player
- why turning off A/V out when the HDMI output is activated is an awesome experience
- why feeling back channels with silence is a great idea to ensure people don't extrapolate that into a surround sound

At this point, Occam's razor says Nintendo doesn't give a shit about audio, not that they're making incredibly byzantine gifts to gamers.

 

[out0v0rder]

doesn't sound like i will have any issues. sorry to those with old receivers.

 

[Raistlin]

doesn't sound like i will have any issues. sorry to those with old receivers.

You have a magic receiver that will get surround sound from Netflix, Amazon, TiVo, etc?

nope.gif

 

[lenovox1]

At this point, Occam's razor says Nintendo doesn't give a shit about audio, not that they're making incredibly byzantine gifts to gamers.

Their engineers know that if you want a low powered system and seemless streaming audio to the GamePad, you have an audio DSP. But, yup, they don't care about surround sound. They made that point clear enough with the Gamecube and the Wii.

no surround sound for TiVo or any other cable/sat/dvr services ...

TVii will utilize an existing box you have for that stuff.

 

[jamesinclair]

Holy shit nintendo, even tge gc had pro logic 2.....didn't the n64 have it in like three games as well?

 

[jimi_dini]

You have a magic receiver that will get surround sound from Netflix, Amazon, TiVo, etc?

It's obviously the fault of amazon & co. They should all stream LPCM 5.1.

 

[Raistlin]

It's obviously the fault of amazon & co. They should all stream LPCM 5.1.

lol exactly

broadcasters too.

 

[Somnia]

Something weird just happened to me while playing Black Ops 2. So far in every game my surround sound had worked perfect with no issues.

I booted up BLOPS 2 and did the sound test,etc. and sounds perfect on my surround, start the game. No voices from any characters at all, full sound effects from everything and even background chatter on mics. I hit display on my gamepad and all of a sudden I still get full surround sound and now I can hear voices (I turned the volume down on my gamepad) through my system.

Any clue?

 

[metsallica]

You would want a better video scaler than the TV.

Well, The TV should display native 720p if that's what the WiiU outputs, I am not fond of upscaling of any kind, from the TV, from the console, or software-wise from the game it self (eg: BlackOps 2)

Oh, I definitely get that! I've been looking for recommendations for a few weeks as I'm finishing my home theater, and it seemed my question was misinterpreted to be about audio. Here's what I originally asked:

"Can we get some receiver recommendations going in this thread? I'm looking for something that has tons of analogue inputs, tons of HDMI inputs, with great audio processing and a good scaler for older sources (like classic gaming consoles). Thoughts? Been considering a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2020 primarily for that HQV Vida, but many have told me to go with a lower-end receiver and simple s-video/component/composite switches for my classic devices."

Wanted to know if anyone had experience with the scalar in the RX-A2020, the HQV Vida, and how it treated classic gaming consoles. I've been struggling with this build for months and am looking for any insight! My TV actually has a pretty great scaler already (it's a final-gen Kuro, a 101FD) but I still want a receiver that can be my one-stop shop as it seems easier to me than worrying about switches for composite, s-video, component, etc.

 

[shouamabane]

PCM across the board works for me. I wish more PS3 games used PCM.

 

[Stewox]

Oh, I definitely get that! I've been looking for recommendations for a few weeks as I'm finishing my home theater, and it seemed my question was misinterpreted to be about audio. Here's what I originally asked:

"Can we get some receiver recommendations going in this thread? I'm looking for something that has tons of analogue inputs, tons of HDMI inputs, with great audio processing and a good scaler for older sources (like classic gaming consoles). Thoughts? Been considering a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2020 primarily for that HQV Vida, but many have told me to go with a lower-end receiver and simple s-video/component/composite switches for my classic devices."

Wanted to know if anyone had experience with the scalar in the RX-A2020, the HQV Vida, and how it treated classic gaming consoles. I've been struggling with this build for months and am looking for any insight! My TV actually has a pretty great scaler already (it's a final-gen Kuro, a 101FD) but I still want a receiver that can be my one-stop shop as it seems easier to me than worrying about switches for composite, s-video, component, etc.

But, If you don't jump into someone experienced you're not going to get much pro-help on gaf, I suggest you take it to the AVForums.com and make your own thread about it.

How is that not Nintendo's fault? Going into this they knew almost no TV's pass DD/DTS over optical ... let alone actually have an active DD encoder which would be needed in this case.

It's TV's fault. TV doesn't need to do any processing for passing through video game signals, they don't pass it throguh so it's their fault. But as we said, it's more likely the SPDIF bandwidth that's making limits, and other things I may not yet have researched.

TV manufacturers are simply stupid. Their stupid firmware should detect game consoles and disable all image processing. I hope in the new version HDMI has a flag to force the TVs to disable all processing which includes buffering.

 

[Mejilan]

What do you think of the Take 5.1s, Mejilan? I've heard some good things; what made you go with them?

I'm not even remotely knowledgeable about such things.
It ultimately came out to budget (I was already dropping over $300 on the new receiver) and good ol' internet reviews. You know, CNet, Amazon, Newegg, etc.

The consensus seemed to be that they were one of the best 5.1 sets you could get in its price-range.

This was the first time I honestly researched my own components, measured and ran my own speaker wire lengths, etc. It was a bit of a project, but I'm definitely happy with the results. Smokes my old, crappy Panasonic HTiB solution (which was my first SS system ever).

 

[Stewox]

In what kind of imaginary scenario is this good for any end user? Because the way I see it:
- your setup doesn't support LPCM over 6 channels and you're fucked -> Bad outcome
- your setup does support it and you don't care -> Neutral outcome
"better for everyone to avoid it" implies you can somehow currently walk into a store and buy a receiver that doesn't support HDMI audio. Except you can't.
The only people who've bought recent hardware and are thoroughly fucked are the ones with headphones. Except they didn't have a choice either since no model on the market goes through HDMI.
That's the state of the ecosystem.

Helps to force the industry to stop using Toslink, which is a good thing, we may get new standard sooner.

I'm so so glad to have HDCP, it has changed my end user experience.

Nintendo reportedly doesn't use HDCP, you can record gameplay freely.

Yeah, we should totally blame developers.
Wait, what for? Have you played any recent game where the game files are "crappy 96kb/s .mp3"? Seriously.

This was just an off-head example. Still, I know what I'm talkign about, I was modding for 5 years.

Please, don't hesitate to make up more convoluted fairy tales to explain among other things:
- why Amazon Instant Video being stereo only is a good thing
- why Nintendo games being stereo only makes complete sense and is more immersive for the player
- why turning off A/V out when the HDMI output is activated is an awesome experience
- why feeling back channels with silence is a great idea to ensure people don't extrapolate that into a surround sound

At this point, Occam's razor says Nintendo doesn't give a shit about audio, not that they're making incredibly byzantine gifts to gamers.

1. Ask Amazon.
2. Fair point - with devs I also mean nintendo's - I expect them to take it seriously, but it takes time for them to get used to the system so I'm not panicking yet.
3. We know: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501128
4. explain the scenario so I can add it to the list in the thread above


I never said nintendo is doing all great, i said with that SPECIFIC method they're doing better than people percieve it. You don't really know me, you won't really get me with that "fanboy" arguments. I am all for pressuring them to fill those 25GB discs with better audio files, that's where the channels also come from, it's not like the DSP makes up more channels, so that's why I said take the horses to sound designers(audio team) who still have have compression paranoia in 21st. century.

The reason I bolded that is because it was meant to be added to the OP as a fix, I saw one guy who has quoted the "TV not passing through 5.1" and blamed it falsely on Nintendo, that specific is wrong, It doesn't mean I have same opinion for other stuff you mentioned.

 

[jimi_dini]

Helps to force the industry to stop using Toslink, which is a good thing, we may get new standard sooner.

What?

BluRay players are REQUIRED to have either optical or coaxial out. There is no discussion about that. And that's a good thing, because only stupid people would throw their totally working high-end receiver away just because it doesn't support HDMI. Try to find a receiver supporting HDMI + analog 5.1 in. Good luck with that. There are surely a few somewhere, but it's rare.

And then there is also this http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/trading

Anyhow HDMI is already the new standard. Or do you want another new standard? Wii U supports component video - old standard and even analog audio/video out - which is ultra-old. Why do they do that? Because even more people would be pissed that Wii U isn't able to connect to their older TV. Nintendo just didn't care about supporting surround sound properly, because there are not as many people that care as people caring about their older TVs.

so that's why I said take the horses to sound designers(audio team) who still have have compression paranoia in 21st. century.

Do you really believe any developer could put uncompressed LPCM 5.1 data for the whole game on the disc? Because that's the funny thing about it - using LPCM 5.1 just means Wii U outputs uncompressed audio. But most of the time, if not even all the time, the game will use lossy-compressed audio, uncompress that and output that as uncompressed sound. Which means you won't get actual uncompressed sound like from BluRays. The game could even use 96kbps MP3s internally and you would still think that "oh goody two shoes, I'm getting uncompressed audio, Nintendo is awesome". Sure, for very short games it could theoretically work. But guess why even most BluRays don't do that. Because it wastes lots of space. And at least BluRays may go up to 50GB. Nintendo discs are only able to contain 25GB data.

Don't think that Nintendo did this for anything but cutting a few cents costs. And defending such doesn't make sense - the consumer will pay the price anyway, not Nintendo themselves.

 

[Stewox]

Do you really believe any developer could put uncompressed LPCM 5.1 data for the whole game on the disc? Because that's the funny thing about it - using LPCM 5.1 just means Wii U outputs uncompressed audio. But most of the time, if not even all the time, the game will use lossy-compressed audio, uncompress that and output that as uncompressed sound. Which means you won't get actual uncompressed sound like from BluRays. The game could even use 96kbps MP3s internally and you would still think that "oh goody two shoes, I'm getting uncompressed audio, Nintendo is awesome". Sure, for very short games it could theoretically work. But guess why even most BluRays don't do that. Because it wastes lots of space. And at least BluRays may go up to 50GB. Nintendo discs are only able to contain 25GB data.

Don't think that Nintendo did this for anything but cutting a few cents costs. And defending such doesn't make sense - the consumer will pay the price anyway, not Nintendo themselves.

Don't really care about blu-ray to be honest, I don't watch movies.


About the WiiU Disc Size, 25GB is great, but space issues are gone now that external storage is supported. Doesn't matter that much because devs can ship them on 3 discs if they want, 75GB should be enough. Not to mention digital downloading which avoids media altogether.

It's not so much in space as it is in audio engine handling the bandwidth of audio and maintaining frame rate. WiiU should be a lot more efficient in audio than X360 and PS3.

 

[alr1ght]

Listen guys, one piece of electronics is going to get the industry to stop using Dolby Digital and toslink connectors. You heard it here first. What a shit justification.

 

[Barrow Roll]

edit: wrong thread.

 

[shouamabane]

Listen guys, one piece of electronics is going to get the industry to stop using Dolby Digital and toslink connectors. You heard it here first. What a shit justification.

Both were great in the mid-90s.

 

[jimi_dini]

Dolby Digital was great introduced in the mid-90s.

Dolby Digital was introduced in 1995 for home cinema (first release on Laserdisc was "Clear And Present Danger"). Dolby Digital was introduced in 1992 for cinemas (first movie Batman Returns). HDMI was introduced 2003.

If you want to troll, please at least get your facts straight. You should have posted: "Both were great over 10 years ago."

 

[Stewox]

Listen guys, one piece of electronics is going to get the industry to stop using Dolby Digital and toslink connectors. You heard it here first. What a shit justification.

I didn't said that in such direct manner - I said "help" therefore it means contribute, but it's your call by how much.

In other cases, would you say nintendo isn't influential? look at kinect and ps move for example.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Ended up getting a replacement Deluxe for my first DOA system and just read about this stupid shit. Sorry if it was explained somewhere else in the thread, but is there a reason for LPCM 5.1 surround not carrying through optical from an HDMI-connected television as DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 can from similarly connected PS3 and X360 systems? Or is this a software issue that can be adjusted from Ninty's end?

 

[UltimateIke]

Ended up getting a replacement Deluxe for my first DOA system and just read about this stupid shit. Sorry if it was explained somewhere else in the thread, but is there a reason for LPCM 5.1 surround not carrying through optical from an HDMI-connected television as DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 can from similarly connected PS3 and X360 systems? Or is this a software issue that can be adjusted from Ninty's end?

Optical connections have never been able to carry LPCM 5.1 from any source. The connection standards have never allowed the bandwidth for more than LPCM 2.0. This is not unique to the Wii U.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Optical connections have never been able to carry LPCM 5.1 from any source. The connection standards have never allowed the bandwidth for more than LPCM 2.0. This is not unique to the Wii U.

Ah, okay. Well, time to finally upgrade my receiver setup to an all-digital domain with a modern HDMI one that can pass 3D and 'deep' color signals. Stupid limitation and now I more fully-appreciate the value of proprietary surround signals that MS and Sony paid a pittance to include. Bad, Ninty, bad. Especially when they seemed so conscientious of consumers with legacy hardware with Wii, they go and make it unnecessarily difficult by cheaping out with its successor platform, causing people to upgrade non-trivially expensive hardware when they probably shouldn't have to given the lack of limitations presented by older competing platforms. Especially poor when they did so well this last generation only to keep with the too-miserly design decisions...even when DD 5.1 is practically the universal bare minimum for PCs and consoles these days.

 

[Luigison]

Won't this give 5.1 for those that have HDMI input on the receiver?

WiiU > HDMI > TV/Monitor 
               |
              HDMI ARC
               |
              AV Receiver/HTiB 
               |
              5.1???

Regardless, I am going to use a 2.1 sound bar due to the TV being at an angle in a long room. Also, my wife and daughter want a one remote option. My previous five remote and component tree/chart was confusing to them and frustrating to all of us.

So, here's what am doing even though it's not 5.1:

WiiU Deluxe > HDMI > VIZIO E601i-A3 60-Inch 1080p 120Hz Razor LED Smart FHDTV 
                          |
                         HDMI ARC
                          |
                         VIZIO 40" 2.1 Home Theater Sound Bar w/ Wireless Subwoofer, Dolby SRS TruSurround & TruVolume 
                          |
                         2.1 Dolby SRS TruSurround?

Will this give Dolby SRS TruSurround as the sound bar is billed? Isn't Dolby SRS TruSurround just simulated surround sound?

 

[Raistlin]

It's TV's fault. TV doesn't need to do any processing for passing through video game signals, they don't pass it throguh so it's their fault. But as we said, it's more likely the SPDIF bandwidth that's making limits, and other things I may not yet have researched.

No offense, but yes ... you need to do some more research. This isn't the TV's 'fault'.

TV manufacturers are simply stupid. Their stupid firmware should detect game consoles and disable all image processing. I hope in the new version HDMI has a flag to force the TVs to disable all processing which includes buffering.

:\

How are TV manufacturers being 'stupid' when there is no mechanic to detect what the input device is at this point?

Wanting new metadata introduced into the EDID sounds like a laudable endeavor (even if there can be problems with being reliant on such things) ... but how are TV manufactures at fault for not having something that doesn't exist right now?

 

[Raistlin]

1. Ask Amazon.

As has been stated numerous times ... it's not Amazon's fault (nor Netflix, nor Hulu, etc) ... it's Nintendo's.

Both were great in the mid-90s.

You do realize many of streaming services are actually using DD+

I didn't said that in such direct manner - I said "help" therefore it means contribute, but it's your call by how much.

In other cases, would you say nintendo isn't influential? look at kinect and ps move for example.

Sure, they have influence in the gaming sector ... they however have zero influence in the HT and greater electronics sectors. And that is especially true when talking about things like I/O, media formats, etc.

 

[Damian.]

Is there a list of games that support 5.1 surround sound on the Wii U? I know Mario doesn't, but that's the only one I can find clear info on.

All of this really does suck since bandwidth concerns effectively render Netflix/Amazon Instant Video useless for me since they will more than likely never stream 5.1 PCM, nor would I want dozens of GB a month coming in from just audio on these services. I was hoping Nintendo would have cheaped out but offer a ~$10-$20 software pack that patched in DD/DTS/BD playback ala the original Xbox, looks like that is not possible at all.

 

[Foxix Von]

Won't this give 5.1 for those that have HDMI input on the receiver?

WiiU > HDMI > TV/Monitor 
               |
              HDMI ARC
               |
              AV Receiver/HTiB 
               |
              5.1???

Regardless, I am going to use a 2.1 sound bar due to the TV being at an angle in a long room. Also, my wife and daughter want a one remote option. My previous five remote and component tree/chart was confusing to them and frustrating to all of us.

So, here's what am doing even though it's not 5.1:

WiiU Deluxe > HDMI > VIZIO E601i-A3 60-Inch 1080p 120Hz Razor LED Smart FHDTV 
                          |
                         HDMI ARC
                          |
                         VIZIO 40" 2.1 Home Theater Sound Bar w/ Wireless Subwoofer, Dolby SRS TruSurround & TruVolume 
                          |
                         2.1 Dolby SRS TruSurround?

Will this give Dolby SRS TruSurround as the sound bar is billed? Isn't Dolby SRS TruSurround just simulated surround sound?

Basically it's taking a all the channel information from the 5.1 audio mix and doing some trickery with it to simulate it in stereo. It is simulated surround sound. I could be wrong about this so someone correct me, but I believe SRS relies on Dolby Digital as a format to work with and then output the sort of "fake" 5.1 audio. Much like all the virtual surround sound headphones on the market they really only decode DD.

So since the Wii U doesn't support that audio codec, no. You won't be able to get an effective 5.1 mix that the soundbar can decode.

However I could be deeply wrong about that and SRS might be able to use multiple audio formats. I doubt that's the case, however.

EDIT: Scratch that, from what I'm reading it looks like SRS is actually only working with stereo. So the effect should still be there, just know that you're aren't getting anything anywhere near actual surround sound.

 

[CLEEK]

Won't this give 5.1 for those that have HDMI input on the receiver?

WiiU > HDMI > TV/Monitor 
               |
              HDMI ARC
               |
              AV Receiver/HTiB 
               |
              5.1???

Regardless, I am going to use a 2.1 sound bar due to the TV being at an angle in a long room. Also, my wife and daughter want a one remote option. My previous five remote and component tree/chart was confusing to them and frustrating to all of us.

So, here's what am doing even though it's not 5.1:

WiiU Deluxe > HDMI > VIZIO E601i-A3 60-Inch 1080p 120Hz Razor LED Smart FHDTV 
                          |
                         HDMI ARC
                          |
                         VIZIO 40" 2.1 Home Theater Sound Bar w/ Wireless Subwoofer, Dolby SRS TruSurround & TruVolume 
                          |
                         2.1 Dolby SRS TruSurround?

Will this give Dolby SRS TruSurround as the sound bar is billed? Isn't Dolby SRS TruSurround just simulated surround sound?

Why would you connect your stuff up that way?

Surely you want to go: Wii U > HDMI > Soundbar > HDMI > TV.

As far as I'm aware, ARC isn't designed to work as you've suggested. ARC is funidmentally there to do away with the need for additional optical/coax from the TV to receiver for broadcast transmissions. e.g. Get surround sound when watching TV.

Also, ARC doesn't support HD audio codecs, only DD and DTS, so I assume LPCM 5.1 is not supported either.

 

[klier]

Guys I am worried...

I will hook up my Wii U to a Samsung monitor via HDMI and then use the headphone jack for Bose speakers......I will get sound right?

 

[Mudkips]

Why would you connect your stuff up that way?

If my TV supported audio return channel I'd hook it up this way since the fucking gamepad can't control my receiver.

 

[klier]

Sorry for the bump guys. Anyone knows?

 

[Arc07]

I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V473 (5.1 system w/ 4 HDMI inputs) and I'm not hearing anything from my rear speakers when playing NSMBU and Nintendo Land. All the speakers sound fine on my 360, PS3 and PC (surround decoder says Pro Logic II) so I know it's not the wiring. When I hit the INFO button on the remote with the Wii U powered up I see this.

When I hit the SUR. DECODE on the remote it says "STRAIGHT."

Does this look normal? Sorry for the shitty questions but anything sound/speakers related is my downside.

 

[StevieP]

I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V473 (5.1 system w/ 4 HDMI inputs) and I'm not hearing anything from my rear speakers when playing NSMBU and Nintendo Land. All the speakers sound fine on my 360, PS3 and PC (surround decoder says Pro Logic II) so I know it's not the wiring. When I hit the INFO button on the remote with the Wii U powered up I see this.



When I hit the SUR. DECODE on the remote it says "STRAIGHT."

Does this look normal? Sorry for the shitty questions but anything sound/speakers related is my downside.

As I discovered earlier in this thread, although both games are delivering 5.1 channels into my receiver, both are delivering only stereo audio.

I don't know if Nintendo will eventually patch this or leave both games to be stereo only with empty rear channels. I do not yet have any other games (such as blops 2, zombi u, etc) that are reported to have surround.

 

[UltimateIke]

I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V473 (5.1 system w/ 4 HDMI inputs) and I'm not hearing anything from my rear speakers when playing NSMBU and Nintendo Land. All the speakers sound fine on my 360, PS3 and PC (surround decoder says Pro Logic II) so I know it's not the wiring. When I hit the INFO button on the remote with the Wii U powered up I see this.



When I hit the SUR. DECODE on the remote it says "STRAIGHT."

Does this look normal? Sorry for the shitty questions but anything sound/speakers related is my downside.

Neither of those games have surround sound.

Your signal info seems to show you are getting 5.1 PCM (3 front/2 rear/subwoofer). If your receiver is like mine, you can't apply PLII to a 5.1 PCM signal, only 2.0. So empty channels stay empty.

 

[Arc07]

Neither of those games have surround sound.

Your signal info seems to show you are getting 5.1 PCM (3 front/2 rear/subwoofer). If your receiver is like mine, you can't apply PLII to a 5.1 PCM signal, only 2.0. So empty channels stay empty.

Alrighty then. Thanks.

 

[Deku Tree]

Can I get surround sound out of the Wii U using a Denon AVR-1912?

http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/denon-avr-1912/4505-6466_7-34647681.html

I only bought it last year...

 

[Drensch]

I have the older 1910, and I get sound fine.

 

[Raistlin]

Guys I am worried...

I will hook up my Wii U to a Samsung monitor via HDMI and then use the headphone jack for Bose speakers......I will get sound right?

Are you referring to the headphone jack on your monitor? As long as it works with other HDMI sources it should work here.

Unfortunately your color/contrast is going to be a bit washed out though as Wii U does not as yet support RGB full

 

[Raistlin]

I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V473 (5.1 system w/ 4 HDMI inputs) and I'm not hearing anything from my rear speakers when playing NSMBU and Nintendo Land. All the speakers sound fine on my 360, PS3 and PC (surround decoder says Pro Logic II) so I know it's not the wiring. When I hit the INFO button on the remote with the Wii U powered up I see this.



When I hit the SUR. DECODE on the remote it says "STRAIGHT."

Does this look normal? Sorry for the shitty questions but anything sound/speakers related is my downside.

IIRC, all of the Nintendo titles are actually in stereo.



As to why you can't get DPLII working, that's because of a bug in how Nintendo outputs 2 channel audio when the system is set to surround (it sends 5.1 with silence in the unused channels). Since it's actually sending 5.1, the receiver can't process DPLII correctly.

If you want to use DPLII for stereo games, the work around is to actually set the Wii U's audio output to Stereo.

 

[klier]

Are you referring to the headphone jack on your monitor? As long as it works with other HDMI sources it should work here.

Unfortunately your color/contrast is going to be a bit washed out though as Wii U does not as yet support RGB full

Yes, on the monitor (I use that monitor as a TV as well, with a card inserted). The speakers work just fine with my Wii, 360 and PS3, and the PS3 and 360 are both hooked up via HDMI.

Why would I get washed out color/contrast with the WiiU? I have no graphical problems at all with that monitor when I play PS3 or 360 via HDMI. I shouldn't have it for WiiU either then.

Thanks for the reply btw!