chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
GAF will do it for them and pay for it, and they can get money for the hits.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
WiiU technical discussion (serious discussions welcome)
- Thread starter blu
- Start date
Difference, none will have the scoop and additional hits. But let's nog get further off topic.
The name is written on the chip package. Because these three dies are all packaged together in an MCM, all we know is what's written on the MCM package, which gives us no indications of which die is which.
It's $200 per photo, so $600 for all three. If just one photo's being bought, we'd want the GPU die, as it's the one we know the least about. Personally I'd like to see the CPU die, but that's just me being a CPU nerd, as we already know everything that could be determined from a die photo. I'm mildly curious about the tiny die, but there's probably not much to see on there.
Yeah, definitely the GPU, but I'm with you on both. Actually, I think I'd contribute $20 if we're doing 2 or all 3. Just don't tell my wife..
If you guys are really serious about this, then make a separate thread so we can get things better organized, and get the "word" out. Like others suggested, we can focus on the gpu first, then see if there's any interest in attaining the others. I'd consider putting $20 for GPU & CPU, or $10-20 for GPU only.
JordanN
Banned
Something I want to know about the Wii U is how under utilized is the 1GB of RAM? The Wii U has 2x that of the PS3/360's memory so the difference should be easily recognizable yet are most exclusives taking advantage of it?
We only had one developer confirm to use it. However, we also had Ancel and Shin'en say they were just dumping textures without ever worrying about the RAM (with Ancel saying it was "huge" "movie" "textures).
Sorry if my question sounds weird but I want to understand why would any exclusive use half of the systems resources right now? Or is this a case of diminishing returns (i.e, the textures are high res but you can't notice it)?
We only had one developer confirm to use it. However, we also had Ancel and Shin'en say they were just dumping textures without ever worrying about the RAM (with Ancel saying it was "huge" "movie" "textures).
Sorry if my question sounds weird but I want to understand why would any exclusive use half of the systems resources right now? Or is this a case of diminishing returns (i.e, the textures are high res but you can't notice it)?
I could wangle maybe $10 and would prefer GPU info. We need someone trustworthy to gather and buy. I'm happy with someone like Blu, Thaktor wsippel et al, or mybe a mod who was keen. What we need to know I guess is if the info can be shared in public or if we'd have to limit it to the purchasers.
Yes a new thread would be good.
Yes a new thread would be good.
Nah, I don't think we want it too much 'out there' other than this thread. I'm not sure how they feel about 10-20 people passing it around anyway lol. It seems like we're gathering the funds sufficiently here.
It's not like you have to go to the extremes and add shitloads of detail just because you're right in front of an object.
Unless tesselation streaming polygons or whatever it does (I'm not technical at all so feel free to correct me here) requires more resources than regular LoD models which just switch out the model/asset as you get closer?
That takes us to around $120 in pledges. Think if we just sort out who will recieve the money and pay for the photo we could have this done in a few days.
Just need to make sure we're buying something worthwhile. Any examples of past die shots from chipworks so we can gauge their quality?
Just need to make sure we're buying something worthwhile. Any examples of past die shots from chipworks so we can gauge their quality?
I'd assume that legally only the purchaser would get access. So it should be someone who can examine it and say how many ROPs, TUs an ALU clusters there are.
If we make a thread for it then people will expect us to post photos, which we can't do. To be honest, even sharing the die shots via PM is probably stretching it.
I'm committed to absolutely not share the photos outside of the PM circle, but I'm quite afraid of how easily someone will pay $10 for sole purpose of making a blowout thread. :S
Definitely won't be allowed to publish it publicly, but there's nothing stopping us from sharing it with others over PM (but only with the permission of everyone), I mean who's to say they didn't contribute some of the funds?
Would you be happy doing this? I feel if someone can figure this stuff out, then make a scale diagram showing the layout of the components on the die, that should be enough for most people. I figure you're probably more qualified than most of us to do the job, unless someone else here has specific expertise with this sort of thing?
Yeah I suppose that's the best way to go. Perhaps even two people could do it, just for some oversight? I doubt there's anything in the chipworks terms and conditions that restricts access to only a single person. Surely they often sell to companies who give access to a team of people within that company? But definitely limiting access is the best idea, then there's much less chance of leaks.
Ok, seems reasonable enough.
Definitely won't be allowed to publish it publicly, but there's nothing stopping us from sharing it with others over PM (but only with the permission of everyone), I mean who's to say they didn't contribute some of the funds?
Ok cool. So who could read a die shot and wants to do it? No need to reply here but you can PM me and I'll chip in. Note, for me it'd have to be someone really known here and trusted obviously.
Let's do it, if even just for our sanity.
I'm really not sure that would be legal, but I guess it depends on the exact conditions of the sale.Definitely won't be allowed to publish it publicly, but there's nothing stopping us from sharing it with others over PM (as long as we can be sure they won't publish the info), I mean who's to say they didn't contribute some of the funds?
Personally, I'd be willing to "pledge" $10 just to get the numbers, as long as the recipient is someone I trust to get it right.
I'm really not a hardware guy, the best I could do is comparing it to existing AMD GPU die shots (such as this annotated one). That could be enough, but I'd be happier with someone more qualified.
I think a new thread would be good, keeps the clutter off this one.
Maybe more money can be raised so also the other pictures can be bought.
Restrictions regarding sharing, showing, legality etc, could easily be outlined in the OP.
Keeps it easier to keep track of who was donating how much without other discussion interfering.
Personally, i don't care one bit about seeing the pictures. I guess it would be "fun" but i won't lose any sleep over it.
Who would be best suited to dissect the picture. I feel Blu would be ideal, but i'm not sure if he is a strictly software side guy and can judge from a physical perspective of the hardware or not. I don't know who else would be best suited.
I still feel we should try getting a newssite to sponsor first. They'll be making money off our "investment". Or is there a legal issue keeping from publicly discussing what is seen on the pictures without showing the pictures?
Maybe more money can be raised so also the other pictures can be bought.
Restrictions regarding sharing, showing, legality etc, could easily be outlined in the OP.
Keeps it easier to keep track of who was donating how much without other discussion interfering.
Personally, i don't care one bit about seeing the pictures. I guess it would be "fun" but i won't lose any sleep over it.
Who would be best suited to dissect the picture. I feel Blu would be ideal, but i'm not sure if he is a strictly software side guy and can judge from a physical perspective of the hardware or not. I don't know who else would be best suited.
I still feel we should try getting a newssite to sponsor first. They'll be making money off our "investment". Or is there a legal issue keeping from publicly discussing what is seen on the pictures without showing the pictures?
Fourth Storm
Member
I'm not at my comp at the moment, but if nobody else volunteers to get this rolling, I have a papypal and will gladly get this done. To mods: If this is against ToS, just lemme know and we'll make it happen some other way.
GhostTrick
Banned
So, basically, if someone pays, we could know more about GPU ?
Do it GhostTrick, lol
GhostTrick
Banned
Well, yes. Obviously, we don't expect this person to give us the image since we wouldn't know wtf we were looking at. They should be able to compare it to similar AMD die images that are out there floating around.
We're already #7 on google search for "Chipworks Wii U", so maybe a new thread wouldn't even matter at this point.
That's the exact die shot I was going to compare it to, actually. I'm not sure we have anyone particularly qualified here, though.
I don't care too much about seeing the original images. We just need to "elect" a few "trustworthy" people to verify that the mock-up/illustration(done by someone "qualified") is accurate as possible in reflecting the actual photo. I don't think this would be an issue, but just so everything is done in order.
GhostTrick
Banned
Well indeed, I think that picture would mean nothing for a lot of us. We have to find someone who could tell us what is this about, and someone not biased, who might lie.
Let's ask Specialguy!
Or ask Chipworks if they have annotated images like they did with the A6:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recen.../apple-iphone-5-the-a6-application-processor/
(Or convince them that a public Wii U chip teardown/analysis would get them a bunch of hits and publicity)
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recen.../apple-iphone-5-the-a6-application-processor/
(Or convince them that a public Wii U chip teardown/analysis would get them a bunch of hits and publicity)
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
I only ever lurk in this thread, but I can chip in $20 towards whichever chip you guys want x rays of if you need help meeting a goal
People are overcomplicating things with talk of new threads, etc. Between us in this thread we should have enough for the GPU die photo without too much trouble. There are only a few steps:
1. Determine which is the GPU die (no point paying $200 for a picture of some EEPROM)
2. Choose a suitable person to buy the photo and send them the money
3. They buy the photo, determine the vital statistics and make a scale diagram of the chip layout
4. They make a new thread with the specs and diagram
No need for a new thread before we get to the last step.
1. Determine which is the GPU die (no point paying $200 for a picture of some EEPROM)
2. Choose a suitable person to buy the photo and send them the money
3. They buy the photo, determine the vital statistics and make a scale diagram of the chip layout
4. They make a new thread with the specs and diagram
No need for a new thread before we get to the last step.
Damned last post on page. Reposted so people can see it:
Edit: I'm a little surprised Chipworks don't tell you the resolution of the photos you're buying. That's a fairly important piece of info for someone dropping $200, I would think.
Edit: I'm a little surprised Chipworks don't tell you the resolution of the photos you're buying. That's a fairly important piece of info for someone dropping $200, I would think.
I absolutely agree. This should be our course of action.
oversitting
Banned
we can probably just ask Chipworks which chip is which.
Yeah, the person doing the purchase can do that.
Fourth Storm
Member
I don't see why not. And if the legalities are that strict, then Thraktor's plan is a good one. We need a good engineer type for maximum accuracy though...hmmm
Well, we don't really know how strict the legalities are, but it's much better to be safe than sorry. We don't want Evilore getting sued over this
This was my thought, if they release some pictures for free I think maybe a bunch of us sending them polite emails saying there would be enough interest in it may work.
Resolution depends on die size:
http://www.chipworks.com/en/technic.../report-formats/basic-benchmarking/die-photos
Thanks, but what I was thinking was that if we knew the resolutions of the photos, then we could determine the die sizes (ie which one's the GPU).
oversitting
Banned
we should all write polite emails then
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Can someone explain the point of this thread?
If you looked at the PS3 from the outside, you'd see a ram set up that looks limiting and a GPU that is far from 'best in class' - even for its time.... and yet, Uncharted 2, 3 and God of War 3. You certainly wouldn't expect PS3 to have the best looking console games of the generation.
What are we actually hoping to prove?
If you looked at the PS3 from the outside, you'd see a ram set up that looks limiting and a GPU that is far from 'best in class' - even for its time.... and yet, Uncharted 2, 3 and God of War 3. You certainly wouldn't expect PS3 to have the best looking console games of the generation.
What are we actually hoping to prove?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll