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[Midou]

It will be the only way I have any hope for the future of Final Fantasy. He is the man with the right ideas in terms of what makes a great RPG, having designed all the best systems of past FFs too.

How glorious it would be to once again have a final fantasy full of huge explorable areas, proper towns (you can argue XIII/XIII-2 towns all you want, but they are life-less), shops, interesting side-quests, and a story that doesn't make me want to hurl. The quote at the start of the OP is my very definition of a great RPG.

I want to believe, and I think if Lightning Returns bombs, it may just be more likely. Perhaps Toriyama can step down and join idea factory or something.

Perhaps if he worked on even a 3DS and/or Vita title, one with a smaller budget and a smaller team, but with world maps, airships, boats and the likes, a fully realized RPG world. He should get the Matsuno crew in there too, it would be glorious.

 

[jaxword]

How glorious it would be to once again have a final fantasy full of huge explorable areas, proper towns (you can argue XIII/XIII-2 towns all you want, but they are life-less), shops, interesting side-quests, and a story that doesn't make me want to hurl.

FF12?

 

[Stark]

How glorious it would be to once again have a final fantasy full of huge explorable areas, proper towns (you can argue XIII/XIII-2 towns all you want, but they are life-less), shops, interesting side-quests, and a story that doesn't make me want to hurl. The quote at the start of the OP is my very definition of a great RPG.

Eh. Doing another X game is perfectly fine, too.

 

[Midou]

FF12?

FF12 came really close for me, it's one of my favorite FFs, and it matches most of my requirements. I just feel the change of director hurt it and it had tons of great story and character ideas, but they did not work out as well. I would give anything even to have a game like that after FF13, but an FF6-9 scope FF would be a lot more amazing for me.

Didn't like X much, other than hating Tidus even more than Vaan, it started FF down the wrong path as I saw it.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

That would be great, loved me some FFXII.

 

[Jarnet87]

Going back to the series roots again like they did with FF9 is probably the smartest and best idea for 15, which is why it isn't going to happen.

 

[jaxword]

FF12 came really close for me, it's one of my favorite FFs, and it matches most of my requirements. I just feel the change of director hurt it and it had tons of great story and character ideas, but they did not work out as well. I would give anything even to have a game like that after FF13, but an FF6-9 scope FF would be a lot more amazing for me.

FF6 didn't have huge explorable areas and proper towns, though. Sure, they were there, but they were really small. Can you REALLY say the npcs and shops of town x are that different than the npcs of town y?

 

[Lady Bird]

FF6 didn't have huge explorable areas and proper towns, though. Sure, they were there, but they were really small. Can you REALLY say the npcs and shops of town x are that different than the npcs of town y?

Are you comparing a SNES game with the modern FFs? FF6's towns were awesome some of the best of its generation.

 

[jaxword]

Are you comparing a SNES game with the modern FFs? FF6's towns were awesome for its time.

No, I was replying to Midou.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Going back to the series roots again like they did with FF9 is probably the smartest and best idea for 15, which is why it isn't going to happen.

I don't think so. They understand that people weren't happy with XIII's departure from the traditional formula. They've had their fun with Lightning. I think the time is right for FFXV.

 

[HolyBaikal]

If I'm not mistaken he's also responsible for the active time battle innovative in Final Fantasy IV as well as the combat there in general. Which was quite phenomenal. Final Fantasy IV is known for being a difficult game that forces people to either strategize or grind. The strategize part being one of the chief ways to make traditional RPG combat excel. Without grinding, battles in Final Fantasy IV were incredibly strategic and incredibly good.

Of course I'm a huge Final Fantasy IV fan, so I have my biases.

He was also an important part of Chrono Trigger. And by that I mean game designer along with Hironobu Sakaguchi. And I'm among the people who consider Chrono Trigger the Magnum Opus of Square.

With the resume this man has, I'm utterly shocked he isn't put more to work on modern Square Enix works.

 

[Jarnet87]

I feel like current developers of the series think fans want every town/city to be these giant places full of interaction and story, which in my views is the furthest thing from what I want. FF7 does it great with all the places you visit, some small some huge. Sometimes all you need is a little town that moves along the plot, or gives you a break from the action. Stuff like Chocobo farm, and Kalm are great examples IMO.

 

[Midou]

FF6 didn't have huge explorable areas and proper towns, though. Sure, they were there, but they were really small. Can you REALLY say the npcs and shops of town x are that different than the npcs of town y?

Well clearly they evolved over time, but I meant scope in terms of everything. FF6 had tons of characters that were great and still had a world map you could explore. I can't say the NPCs and shops vary so greatly, that was something that evolved over time. Towns can be big or small and have significance. They are a a way to keep good pacing in an RPG right after you got out of a dungeon or spent a long time in some field. Downtime to resupply healing items, upgrade equipment, talk to some NPCs, etc. This feeling was missing entirely from FFXIII/XIII-2.

 

[jaxword]

Towns can be big or small and have significance. They are a a way to keep good pacing in an RPG right after you got out of a dungeon or spent a long time in some field. Downtime to resupply healing items, upgrade equipment, talk to some NPCs, etc. This feeling was missing entirely from FFXIII/XIII-2.

Why does an rpg need "downtime", though? You can pick up and play whenever you want.

Most of the FF6 towns had zero significance. Weapon shop, armor shop, inn, leave for next cave/mountain.

 

[Stark]

Of course I'm a huge Final Fantasy IV fan, so I have my biases.

Dark Schala inevitable arrival?

 

[pixlexic]

People who didn't like twelve don't like to play games.. They just want to watch a movie.

12 is exactly the direction ff should have gone this gen.

 

[kayos90]

Dark Schala inevitable arrival?

Aeana first. Then Dark Schala. Though I don't think Dark Schala is going to post in this thread. Just a hunch.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Gilgamesh is to Magius as Lightning is to Toriyama.

Pls. Toriyama and Lightning compared to my fandom.

Perish the thought knave.

I am LORD GILGAMESH'S best General in the Lorican Alliance. And it's only Dark Mage.

 

[Lady Bird]

Why does an rpg need "downtime", though? You can pick up and play whenever you want.

Most of the FF6 towns had zero significance. Weapon shop, armor shop, inn, leave for next cave/mountain.

Maybe because videogames, being meant to be played, should keep things interesting and exciting if the player decides to keep playing them. When a game, in order to not become boring or repetitive, requires the player to not play it for a while, then clearly, something is flawed in it. Downtimes, and other forms of pacing, are all very relevant to the entertainment medium besides games: books, movies, music, etc.

And FF6 towns could be explored for treasures and hidden passages, and were used to stage interesting scenarios like Locke's and set up the mood of the world, acting as a storytelling tool. Maybe if you muted out the sound, skipped the storyline and ignored the exploration, I could understand why you wouldn't see them more than just a bunch of mechanics to get better equipment and to recover the party, but I'd say you're just using hyperbole.

 

[jaxword]

Maybe because videogames, being meant to be played, should keep things interesting and exciting if the player decides to keep playing them. When a game, in order to not become boring or repetitive, requires the player to not play it for a while, then clearly, something is flawed in it. Downtimes, and other forms of pacing, are all very relevant to the entertainment medium besides games: books, movies, music, etc.

And FF6 towns could be explored for treasures and hidden passages, and were used to stage interesting scenarios like Locke's and set up the mood of the world, acting as a storytelling tool. Maybe if you muted out the sound, skipped the storyline and ignored the exploration, I could understand why you wouldn't see them more than just a bunch of mechanics to get better equipment and to recover the party, but I'd say you're just using hyperbole.

Let's not pretend for a second here that half the FF6 towns had any real uniqueness to them. Your imagination filled in the blanks about Miranda or Mobliz.

And your argument about it not being boring or repetitive falls apart when many of the towns and caves are literally just shufflings of the same shops and tiles:

Note I am not saying FF6 is BAD. I am just saying people's imaginations REALLY made it far more diverse than it was.

 

[Midou]

Let's not pretend for a second here that half the FF6 towns had any real uniqueness to them.

Note I am not saying FF6 is BAD. I am just saying people's imaginations REALLY made it far more diverse than it was.

It did at its release what 7-9 and 12 did at theirs, for me at least. Clearly some later FFs were an improvement on it, but at the time it was what was expected essentially.

Whether they were all re-using the ground textures or not, they still met the qualities of a change in pacing that FFXIII and XIII-2 sorely lacked. There were still often hidden items and such here and there.

Using 6 as an example is trivial though, the idea is that Ito should work on the next FF because the ones he worked on had classic FF elements that I know and love and were not convener belt simulators.

Having a town instead of a single NPC that fulfills all you need a town to do is a design choice, but doing the latter is lazy and immersion destroying for me. FF12 and FF13 both had monster hunting side-quests, but talking to an NPC that needed help with a backstory behind the encounter was much better than talking to a rock then killing a monster. You achieve the same purpose, but one of them is more immersive while the other is more 'gamey'.

More than anything at this point, if FFXV is like ANY previous FF including FF2(NES) it would be better than the current state of offline mainline FFs.

 

[jaxword]

More than anything at this point, if FFXV is like ANY previous FF including FF2(NES) it would be better than the current state of offline mainline FFs.

Now THERE'S an exaggeration. FF2 is the worst FF, and that's because it is legitimately broken and nobody was able to play it much less finish it without a mechanics guide. Other than being a step in the history of FF, FF2 added almost nothing of value to the series (except Cid and his airships).

Every innovative part introduced, like the battle system, keyword system, rotating 4th party member system, has been long forgotten. Maybe you could argue that FF4 used a bit of the rotating aspect but that's it.

 

[Aeana]

Now THERE'S an exaggeration. FF2 is the worst FF, and that's because it is legitimately broken and nobody was able to play it much less finish it without a mechanics guide. Other than being a step in the history of FF, FF2 added almost nothing of value to the series (except Cid and his airships).

Every innovative part introduced, like the battle system, keyword system, rotating 4th party member system, has been long forgotten. Maybe you could argue that FF4 used a bit of the rotating aspect but that's it.

Talk about exaggerations. Plenty of people finished it without a "mechanics guide." You can pretty much play the game like any other RPG if you don't make stupid decisions like using all kinds of different weapon types or avoiding using magic.

 

[Midou]

Talk about exaggerations. Plenty of people finished it without a "mechanics guide." You can pretty much play the game like any other RPG if you don't make stupid decisions like using all kinds of different weapon types or avoiding using magic.

Yes. It was a step down from FF1 but it was a perfectly fine RPG for its time. The ideas were silly, but it was enjoyable overall. It was easily identifiable as an RPG and included all the elements I expect from one, which can't be said for XIII. FF2 lacked in the battle system, which was the only area 13 was decent at gameplay wise, so I guess you could say they are opposites.

 

[jaxword]

Talk about exaggerations. Plenty of people finished it without a "mechanics guide." You can pretty much play the game like any other RPG if you don't make stupid decisions like using all kinds of different weapon types or avoiding using magic.

Undoubtedly you can, but do you honestly believe most North American players who played it for the first time after playing the streamlined systems of the SNES/PSX games truly went "Yes, I want to devote a lot of my time figuring out this broken system without a single peek at gamefaqs" ?

 

[AuthenticM]

Undoubtedly you can, but do you honestly believe most North American players who played it for the first time after playing the streamlined systems of the SNES/PSX games truly went "Yes, I want to devote a lot of my time figuring out this broken system without a single peek at gamefaqs" ?

Yeah, exactly. I remember playing II for the first time when I bought Origins. I played it normally like other RPGs, and after a little while I would simply get slaughtered. I had to look up a faq which told me that unless I didn't mind grinding for HOURS after every milestone, I had to break the game by having my characters attacking each other to level up their stats. It was tedious and boring. I beat the game just to say that I did, but it was far from a great experience. The first two games, I'd say, have aged very badly. The only difference between the two being that the first one is less tedious.

 

[Midou]

Undoubtedly you can, but do you honestly believe most North American players who played it for the first time after playing the streamlined systems of the SNES/PSX games truly went "Yes, I want to devote a lot of my time figuring out this broken system without a single peek at gamefaqs" ?

If they went to the trouble of wanting to play an older FF, it probably means they had some wanting to play the rest of the series or see where it started. I'm sure most people who fit that description could figure it out. It isn't exactly rocket science.

Taking a few peeks on the internet to figure out a game isn't a huge negative anyways, there are plenty of older titles that are great but I look up stuff for once in a while.

I'm not saying I want FFXV to be like FFII, but FFII was still closer to being the kind of FF that I enjoy over XIII.

 

[jaxword]

If they went to the trouble of wanting to play an older FF, it probably means they had some wanting to play the rest of the series or see where it started. I'm sure most people who fit that description could figure it out. It isn't exactly rocket science.

Taking a few peeks on the internet to figure out a game isn't a huge negative anyways, there are plenty of older titles that are great but I look up stuff for once in a while.

I'm not saying I want FFXV to be like FFII, but FFII was still closer to being the kind of FF that I enjoy over XIII.

Did you use a guide to understand FF2? What specifically about FF2 is what you want to see a return to?

 

[Midou]

Did you use a guide to understand FF2? What specifically about FF2 is what you want to see a return to?

Seems the point is missed was missed once again. It wasn't that FF2 had specific elements I liked over other older FFs, it's that it fell in line with them.

I can put this into clearer points. I want an FF with

- Either a world map and/or huge areas like FF12.
- Towns to act like hubs for side-quests and serve as downtime between dungeons or fields.
- A plot that doesn't require a datalog.
- Non-linear character customization and progression. It doesn't have to be complex, something like the Materia system provides ample customization.

To name a few. FF2 has more of these than FF13.

But really, to get back on topic, Ito worked on the best FFs and created most of the combat/class/etc elements in them, and should work on the next one, I'm sure most people agree.

 

[SougoXIII]

Did you use a guide to understand FF2? What specifically about FF2 is what you want to see a return to?

I personally would like the return of a less grinding weapon/ magic proficiency system. I like that every action I took have some sort of consequences to my character's build and it let's me experiment with other weapons/magic. They just need to refine the system instead of leaving us a barebone version in FF2.

Oh and I did not use a guide for FF2. It wasn't that complicated really.

 

[Aeana]

Yeah, exactly. I remember playing II for the first time when I bought Origins. I played it normally like other RPGs, and after a little while I would simply get slaughtered. I had to look up a faq which told me that unless I didn't mind grinding for HOURS after every milestone, I had to break the game by having my characters attacking each other to level up their stats. It was tedious and boring. I beat the game just to say that I did, but it was far from a great experience. The first two games, I'd say, have aged very badly. The only difference between the two being that the first one is less tedious.

You didn't have to do that, though. It is not a requirement, nor is attacking your own characters an intended course of action. The guide you followed is dumb.

What doing that sort of thing gets you is an overpowered group that let's you demolish battles by spamming attack. If that's what you want, by all means go for it, but that isn't how you're intended to play by any means.

 

[Midou]

What doing that sort of thing gets you is an overpowered group that let's you demolish battles by spamming attack. If that's what you want, by all means go for it, but that isn't how you're intended to play by any means.

Yes, this is the case in some other games where it gives you a bit too much freedom in how to develop characters. Even Fire Emblem: Awakening, which came out recently, if you were to look up how everything in the game works, you can find guides for breaking the game terribly with units who will never die. Yet, that is not the way you are intended to play.

FF2's systems are also fairly similar to how elder scrolls works even now, just more refined over time. Using the same action lets you get better at it, but there was not enough limitations on it. If it was more like Elder Scrolls did it, and it just let you level up what you used the most, that would have worked out better.

 

[AuthenticM]

You didn't have to do that, though. It is not a requirement, nor is attacking your own characters an intended course of action. The guide you followed is dumb.

What doing that sort of thing gets you is an overpowered group that let's you demolish battles by spamming attack. If that's what you want, by all means go for it, but that isn't how you're intended to play by any means.

Except that I did try to play the game normally and couldn't. I've heard that for the GBA and PSP rereleases, Square retooled the numbers so the game didn't require grinding, but as for the original game and Origins, I don't see how someone could have played the game without any sort of exploit and enjoy his time with it. And it's not like I have zero experience with JRPGs, either.

I'd be happy to hear how other people have managed to play the game differently.

 

[Black Door]

Going back to the series roots again like they did with FF9 is probably the smartest and best idea for 15, which is why it isn't going to happen.

Although it would be nice to have another parody/throwback/mythology gag game for the next installment, we have had The After Years/FFD/Dissidia/4 Heroes of Light for this in the current gen. They should cool down on the allusions a bit so that the story can stand on its own instead the text just existing so that people can point out the Chrono Trigger references

 

[Box]

Sometimes I feel like Final Fantasy talk is a foreign language.

What do people want out of this series anyway? I always thought these games were more about story, characters, and spectacle and less about role-playing and quests.

 

[That Dude John]

Sometimes I feel like Final Fantasy talk is a foreign language.

What do people want out of this series anyway? I always thought these games were more about story, characters, and spectacle and less about role-playing and quests.

Nobody knows anything, bro.

 

[Spongebob]

FF6 + 3 = FF9
FF9 + 3 = FF12
FF12 + 3 = FF15

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Incidentally, Sakaguchi was asked what would be able to return the FF franchise to its previous glory, and he gave a simple answer: "Hiroyuki Ito."

January 2012, at BAFTA.

Any source for that? As far as I know, this was said to only one person during an autograph signing without any other witness and the person it was said to was Galvanizer/G-Zay/1Truth, the Ito fanboy who likes to repeatedly create rumors about FFXV and admits to it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Any source for that? Last I've heard, this was said to only one person during an autograph signing and that person was Galvanizer/G-Zay/1Truth, the Ito fanboy who likes to repeatedly create rumors about FFXV and admits to it.

The BAFTA thing is legit.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Sometimes I feel like Final Fantasy talk is a foreign language.

What do people want out of this series anyway? I always thought these games were more about story, characters, and spectacle and less about role-playing and quests.

This

"For me, the most important element of a RPG is the player feeling like they are taking the role of a character in a fully realised fantasy world. They can explore a vast world, visit various towns and dungeons, talk to numerous NPCs, customise the equipment and abilities of their character, collect a wide variety of items, battle many different types of monsters, and engage in optional side-quests and mini-games. The story and event scenes are also important, but they should be balanced with these aspects of RPG gameplay."

FF6 + 3 = FF9
FF9 + 3 = FF12
FF12 + 3 = FF15

Can’t argue with that.

Any source for that? As far as I know, this was said to only one person during an autograph signing without any other witness and the person it was said to was Galvanizer/G-Zay/1Truth, the Ito fanboy who likes to repeatedly create rumors about FFXV and admits to it.

Please don’t bring Galvanizer into this thread…... I remember having to put up with him on the IGN boards years ago when FFXII first came out. He’s infamous on many different forums for pimping matsuno/ito/ivalice/etc to a ridiculous extent.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The BAFTA thing is legit.

So how come it's on Ito's Wikipedia article without any source tagged on the sentence?

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Any source for that? As far as I know, this was said to only one person during an autograph signing without any other witness and the person it was said to was Galvanizer/G-Zay/1Truth, the Ito fanboy who likes to repeatedly create rumors about FFXV and admits to it.

lol this would be hilarious

 

[Black Door]

Sometimes I feel like Final Fantasy talk is a foreign language.

What do people want out of this series anyway? I always thought these games were more about story, characters, and spectacle and less about role-playing and quests.

These discussions tend to end up like Sonic game discussions. Half the audience wants the next game to be FFVI HD, half want it to be whatever title came that came out two or three sequels ago, and there are the stragglers that want it to be whatever game outside the series is popular that month, but with bombs and chocobos surgically implanted, etc.

 

[Verendus]

I think FFXV will be the first game in the series to have a more action oriented battle system.

 

[Spongebob]

I think FFXV will be the first game in the series to have a more action oriented battle system.

Versus XIII will, if that game isn't already FFXV.

 

[Lady Bird]

Let's not pretend for a second here that half the FF6 towns had any real uniqueness to them. Your imagination filled in the blanks about Miranda or Mobliz.

I haven't played the game for a long time, but isn't Miranda the town with the dog fight and Mobliz the one with the carrier pigeon and the one

Spoiler

that gets destroyed

? If so, those towns are nice examples at setting up the mood of the world and the story, and for the later, even at telling the story.

I do understand what you're saying, that some of the towns were more generic than others, but they still served the game very positively as a whole.

 

[Tex117]

"For me, the most important element of a RPG is the player feeling like they are taking the role of a character in a fully realised fantasy world. They can explore a vast world, visit various towns and dungeons, talk to numerous NPCs, customise the equipment and abilities of their character, collect a wide variety of items, battle many different types of monsters, and engage in optional side-quests and mini-games. The story and event scenes are also important, but they should be balanced with these aspects of RPG gameplay."

I found this quote from the Final Fantasy XII Scenario Ultimania on his wiki, and unsurprisingly, it makes a lot of sense considering the man's body of work. He knows how to make great JRPGs. He's either directed or co-directed the most well-received/respected entries in the FF series, but since 2007, it looks like all he's been doing is serving as an advisor on handheld/mobile games...

Surely someone with that kind of pedigree has to be working on something larger behind the scenes right? If it hasn't already, by now FFXV is definitely in some stage of early development. Toriyama and Kitase are busy wrapping up the conclusion of their epic FFXIII saga, Nomura is busy doing whatever he's doing with Versus, and the FFXIV crew is busy desperately trying to resurrect that game....who's left to work on FFXV? Do you think we'll see Ito leading the next major game? Be it Agni's Philosophy/FFXV/etc?

I think the series is due for another solid entry from him right about now.

You can't just say stuff like that and not back it up. Its too sensitive of a subject.

Those are BY FAR my favorite FF's, and to say things like that is cruel.

Sometimes I feel like Final Fantasy talk is a foreign language.

What do people want out of this series anyway? I always thought these games were more about story, characters, and spectacle and less about role-playing and quests.

I want this...I want the continuation of this thread of FF's. Whatever they have cooking. I want to believe...I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!

FF6 + 3 = FF9
FF9 + 3 = FF12
FF12 + 3 = FF15

 

[MagiusNecros]

So how come it's on Ito's Wikipedia article without any source tagged on the sentence?

Trusting a wikipedia article is your first mistake.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

You can't just say stuff like that and not back it up. Its too sensitive of a subject.

Those are BY FAR my favorite FF's, and to say things like that is cruel.

We're here to hope, friend. We're here to hope.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Trusting a wikipedia article is your first mistake.

Erm, what?

I'm not trusting the Wikipedia article. I'm questioning this statement:

Incidentally, Sakaguchi was asked what would be able to return the FF franchise to its previous glory, and he gave a simple answer: "Hiroyuki Ito."

At a Q&A session for The Last Story at the BAFTA headquarters in London on 16 February 2012, Hironobu Sakaguchi was asked during an autograph signing, "Which employee still at Square Enix do you feel can once again make Final Fantasy a leading and respected series in the games industry?" Sakaguchi replied, "Hiroyuki Ito."[citation needed]