Who woulda thunk that dynamic weather and TOD is more difficult than a fixed lighting solution?
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Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
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Who woulda thunk that dynamic weather and TOD is more difficult than a fixed lighting solution?
I H8 Memes
Member
It feels like its way too early in the generation for consoles to be holding back PC potential this much. Damnit this is going to be a long console generation for PC gamers.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
2014
2015
The main difference between these two images, outside of NPC density, is the tone of assets. And the tone of lighting. It's quite odd, as aesthetically more or less everything between the two images is identical, but many of the assets are lit differently and/or have taken on a new tone.
With foliage it does make me wonder how much of the new look is due to the way the engine apparently handles foliage, in that it adjusts the tones based on the surface colour underneath in an effort to blend them in. Seems very aggressive in that shot.
Also needs a dash of AO.
Look no further than Star Citizen.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Different circumstances.
Raven77
Member
Precisely why I am now holding off on putting together my new PC. I see no point at all in spending over a thousand dollars to play suped up ports if that's what PC gamers end up getting for the next 4-5 years.
Ha, i hear you man, but that game seems so big and intimidating, and I don't have a flight stick or fancy HOTAS setup. Maybe I'll give it a shot when it's further along in development. Game does look gorgeous though.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Uh, it is, because no developer is going to make games for the 1% that have rigs that everyone else can't afford. They target what the largest audience have, and consoles are the best target.
It's business.
I like it that people are still comparing what appears to be a PC screenshot to a ps4 screenshot. I don't think anybody should be surprised that AO is weaker in the ps4 screen?
Population density's an interesting thing though.... I mean look at GTA V on PC. It's entirely possible there will be more people inhabiting Novigrad on the PC version, in which case the difference would be minimal.
Fair enough, but there are still things they can do to let people capitalize on having monster rigs like having robust AA options, increased draw distance, etc.
Like, you people get that the final screen is from a PS4, right?
I don't deny that the graphics have taken a hit but that comparison picture is BAD. Let's all wait until Tuesday and see what it looks like maxed out. I just bought a 980 equipped machine to do just that.
I guess the question now is what is the proper place for material of this kind in marketing games? Does it need a disclaimer? Should devs be more transparent? Should we be less naive? It's a tough thing.
Lion Heart
Banned
Downgrades don't affect me as I go on media blackouts, but I'm glad people bitch about them because I'm sick of false advertising by these companies prerelease.
Games use to get better looking as production goes on, remember God of war 3? Now they seem to start impossibly high and eventually lose the great atmosphere they show off.
It's annoying.
Games use to get better looking as production goes on, remember God of war 3? Now they seem to start impossibly high and eventually lose the great atmosphere they show off.
It's annoying.
That's what I was thinking. The detail is all still there, but there is an obvious huge divide in the look. The art style seems to have changed dramatically, to something now more akin to Dragon Age: Inquisition.
And you don't think that they have done that? what does more draw distance look like in the context of what has been shown in this thread so far?
Forgive them, brother. We are all traveling to the same destination. But in different vehicles at different speeds.
I have no idea what I just said, but I wanted to. Deal with it.
Who knows. Ask me next week.
As much as I hate to say it, the details aren't even there in the second shot. Perhaps it's load distance, but tons of details like paint chipping off of the walls and rocks holding down the ceiling tiles are completely gone. It's slightly more than just lighting. I'm hoping that's a PC to PS4 type thing, but I doubt it.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Well I don't think anyone has had their hand on the PC version yet.
I thought every reviewer had PS4 copies.
vpance
Member
Definitely more difficult.
I think GTAV will still be the best looking open world game for a while longer, maybe until The Division. Such great dynamic lighting in it.
TBF they faked it juuust well enough so that the carrot wasn't too far away to be so blatantly obvious. Masterful manipulation.
Gosh. Another sensible answer. Maybe this thread is turning a corner?
Don't worry. They have already said they have turned down the asset quality in the Division. You should forget what you saw in previous demos.
Quite frankly, as much as the downgrade here disheartens me, I'd have to say that Witcher 3 still tops it by a good margin, at least in my opinion.
I'm with you, I think the game looks nice despite whatever downgrade. I think it's just more the symbolic meaning of the downgrade itself that bothers people, the fact that CDPR, who seemed beyond reproach, did something perhaps for expediency and to maximize profits.Which, hey, it's though to blame them. Still, who doesn't want to play that 2013 build?
Yeah, game still looks amazing in motion, judging by the 1080p PS4 videos.
I think the reality of development is what it is. If it wasn't consoles, it would be lower configurations of PC's holding back developers, as well as the base cost of investment.
Its just something PC players have to learn to get on with. A majority of last gen games were 360 based by default(even those games later in the gen that were started on PC engine wise were eventually scaled down in order to meet the minimum requirement for 360 and PS3.
I think the bright side is, if it werent for PS4 and XB1 bringing up the baseline, a game like witcher 3 to begin with as it current exists, with all its scope could not really exist anyway, forget about what you saw in the trailers.
I'm just making the argument that the cost of development is a lot more than people attacking consoles out of bitterness realize.
Its just something PC players have to learn to get on with. A majority of last gen games were 360 based by default(even those games later in the gen that were started on PC engine wise were eventually scaled down in order to meet the minimum requirement for 360 and PS3.
I think the bright side is, if it werent for PS4 and XB1 bringing up the baseline, a game like witcher 3 to begin with as it current exists, with all its scope could not really exist anyway, forget about what you saw in the trailers.
I'm just making the argument that the cost of development is a lot more than people attacking consoles out of bitterness realize.
vpance
Member
Still always hope for the PC version on ultra. That's half the fun in anticipating new AAA releases these days.
Yeah I don't understand the bitterness towards consoles. People are finding a scapegoat to blame. What I do understand is the bitterness of being lied to. CDPR is currently accused of lying to us, with no closure in sight for another 5 days! 5 days of endlessly refreshing this thread. Ugh! :/
I agree. Unfortunately, when I preoredered I was caught up in all the romanticizing of CDPR and what a great, pro-gamer studio they are, and I wanted them to have my money early so they could put it to good use. Next time I'm going to try to stay more grounded in reality.
Coflash
Member
We had two games previous to TW3 that looked great before and after release. This is especially true for The Witcher 2.
A console version of TW2 came out later on and had to be downgraded, understandably so.
Here we are with the third installment, where the series has opted for a multiplatform release for the first time, and we have all of these technical problems that have lead to a downgrade because they want parity and consoles aren't powerful enough to do what a PC can do.
If they had opted to do it the same way as TW2, there wouldn't be anywhere near as many issues.
Consoles holding us back, yet again. If anyone believes that better visuals don't add to the experience or atmosphere (I say this, because it's generally the next thing someone replies back with) then they may as well remove most of the effects and visual improvements that make the game world look and feel better.
They did say the assets are the same for all versions.
It's the sharpening, for some reason the recent trailers and console screenshots we've gotten so far aren't using it and there is an option on PC for it. It makes a pretty big difference in the second game and it looks like it'll be the same here unless they've dialed the effect back by that much. I knew that they sharpened the second game so I turned it off earlier but didn't realise how much of an effect it actually had, some screenshots I took earlier.
But would they have had as much potential revenue to risk making a massive open world game? Consoles are holding PC games back technically, sure, but they are making things possible financially by simply expanding market reach. To suggest that they are deadweight is missing the big picture.
I posted these earlier in the thread. These 2 really show how much atmosphere was lost with the downgrades.
[edit]
Completely subjective but I think the new artstyle really hurt the swamps. The old colors looked a lot better here.
They both look great but I'm personally not sure I like the old version more than the new one.
Dhruv_hanom
Member
Reposting:
2013
2014
2015
Compression, time of day, weather, seasons and all that, but I think it's safe to say there are a lot of details that have been removed/reduced.
I still think it looks great and I think they did a great job. While it still isn't entirely impossible the PC-version will look like the gameplay from 2013 (like CDPR are saying), it's very unlikely.
It should have been the other way round. T_T
They game still looks really good but I guess we're all a little disheartened with what it could have looked like.
It's like showing us a cake and giving us candy, I like candy but I wanted the cake.
Technical considerations aside, I really do prefer the old color grading. The final colors don't look bad by any means, they're quite nice, but the original look really adds personality to the areas and conveys various tones and emotion just from looking at it. I'm guessing given the sheer amount of dynamic stuff in this game (weather/time of day) it would have been tough to color grade everything appropriately all the time so they went with the more natural/original source color.
Should be easy to emulate the original look via SweetFX, it's just a cooler, desaturated image with more contrast.
Oops. Well you can always fiddle with your TV if you won't be playing anything else at the same time! (Half kidding)
In all of the PS4 version videos and screenshots I've seen, the colors are either saturated or unsaturated. The unsaturated captures look fairly poor. Could be due to the gamma of the capture, or maybe certain daylight prescribes a certain amount of saturation. I've seen more saturated than not, however.
The big killer for me is definitely the lack of NPC density. I want it densssssse. The sharpening config in the ini and the AO in the PC versions will do the rest.
The big killer for me is definitely the lack of NPC density. I want it densssssse. The sharpening config in the ini and the AO in the PC versions will do the rest.
LOL
I'm kind of obsessive about my TV settings so that suggestion literally made my eye twitch. That actually plays into why I'm not a PC gamer any more. I spent so much time preoccupied with tweaking settings that I never really paid attention to the games themselves. Even just recently playing Portal 2 on my new laptop, I kept pausing to tinker every few minutes. Drove me nuts and I enjoyed the game less because of it. On a console, I can just get my TV set up properly and pop the game in without having the temptation to tinker with it.
Dishonesty aside, this seems like a pretty open and shut case of having to downgrade for the sake of console performance. The game was first shown when specs weren't known, but as the realities of the consoles' abilities meant they either needed to make separate versions of the game or downgrade it all. This is what happens when you take a great PC series and then promise day and date console versions. It's a shame.
Though I won't lie, I'm hoping the downgrade means it'll run better on my PC.
Though I won't lie, I'm hoping the downgrade means it'll run better on my PC.
I think it is a fair assessment to make that if the Witcher 2 model was tried with Witcher 3, it would not have been greenlighted for development on a PC only userbase.
To say that there are technical issues on PC because of consoles is also ridiculous i think. A bad conclusion to make considering there is no basis for that claim.
The graphics were downscaled in comparison to the trailers, i don't think anyone can make a claim to anything besides that.
I fully understand being disappointed by being hyped for a product in trailers and not getting that thing you were sold by the trailers.
But the reality of development i think is such that i think your anger should be more towards CDPROJECT RED saying they did not have to sacrifice anything during development, lying about that then doing what they had to do.
If CDPROJECTRED had been fully upfront about downgrades instead of doing this bizarre dance of "we didn't downgrade anything", "we're not going to show ultra until the game is out" thing, there would be no real leg for the complaints i think.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I posted these earlier in the thread. These 2 really show how much atmosphere was lost with the downgrades.
[edit]
Completely subjective but I think the new artstyle really hurt the swamps. The old colors looked a lot better here.
I really don't get these comparisons.
Is that the exact swamp and Time of Day? Definitely not. We haven't played the game.
Thing is, the console versions look better than I expected them to even when I was thought that these trailers were 1:1 with the PC Ultra settings. I'm not sure that blaming the consoles for the changes is a logical conclusion when they're holding up better than many thought.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
What is another logical conclusion?
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