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Wkd BO 06•23-25•17 - Transformers snore than meets the eye, Woman keeps up with Cars

Watched WW today, it's been out for a week here while Transformers just started and WW was still playing on the biggest screen. This gave me so much life...

Although I was a bit disappointed by the movie to be honest. Completely fell apart in the third act.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
A lot of these mid-2000s franchises simply weren't built to be going onwards for 10 years of non-stop sequels. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Fast & Furious doesn't do so hot either.
 
A lot of these mid-2000s franchises simply weren't built to be going onwards for 10 years of non-stop sequels. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Fast & Furious doesn't do so hot either.
Domestically will keep going down, but I think that franchise is more likely to stabilize worldwide. Better made films with a diverse, well-liked cast, and there's always going to be people who want to see cool cars do ridiculous shit.
 
It's going to be interesting to see how studios that don't have vast reservoirs of comic book properties deal with the graveyard of franchises that have built up over the last two years.

Rebooting series from the '90s seems to be the next big thing, but that's had mixed success thus far.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
A lot of these mid-2000s franchises simply weren't built to be going onwards for 10 years of non-stop sequels. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Fast & Furious doesn't do so hot either.

Fast 8 did $1.2 billion and is the second biggest in the series. The only one that is bigger is Fast 7 at $1.5 billion, which I think most people would agree is a bit of an outlier due to the real life news surrounding it.

Fast 9 will surely do less but I don't think there's a chance in hell that it goes from $1.2 billion to "not so hot."
 

Anth0ny

Member
A lot of these mid-2000s franchises simply weren't built to be going onwards for 10 years of non-stop sequels. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Fast & Furious doesn't do so hot either.


The thing about Fast and Furious is it basically had a reboot in 2011 with Fast Five when it comes to the public consciousness.

It also helps that those films review well and the cast is beloved.

I also don't think it's any surprise that Transformers can't hang in a post Fast Five world. The Fast and Furious movies are basically "cool cars and sick action" movies done right, whereas Transformers is the drizzling shits.
 
While Fast 7 was a huge boost, the franchise was on an upward trajectory. So yeah, unless they do something silly like take Rock out of the main franchise for a spin-off, I can't see it dropping below $1B.

For Paramount, the Mission Impossible franchise is interesting because Tom Cruise can only eat so many souls to keep himself from aging. There have been attempts to move the franchise beyond him, but they bounce right back to being all about Ethan Hunt. Who knows. Arguably Iisa was the most compelling character in Rogue Nation and it'd be cool if Rebecca Ferguson took over, but I don't see it happening. At least she's back in MI6, unlike Paula Patton or most of the Mission Impossible 3 cast.
 
Reboot. Honestly should've done it already.

I'm betting that's basically what happens if the Kubo-guy's Bumblebee movie lands.

A family-friendly fun adventure movie about a girl and her car in the 80s starring BUMBLEBEE, the action-VW?

Yeah, if that lands, they'll just start spinning stuff off of that. It's not like there needs to be any continuity. The five movies as they stand now have no real continuity between chapters as it is. Might as well just keep making shit up as you go.
 

Falchion

Member
Oh, Transformers is Bay's birthday present to you. Nevermind. Will be interesting if you like it or find it disappointing.

There's a long tradition of these movies coming out right around my birthday and my friends and I going to see them because they're always a spectacle. I don't even care if it's good because I'll be going to a theater with full reclining chairs and footrests so I can just lay back and relax.
 
The first step to making Bumblebee would be to get it the hell out of its current release date. As of now it's slotted a week after Deadpool 2 and a week before Incredibles 2.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
I feel like even if Bumblebee turns out to be good (probably will be with Travis Knight directing), audiences still might associate it with Bayformers and skip it. Probably should've made it entirely CG or maybe even stop-motion.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Watched WW today, it's been out for a week here while Transformers just started and WW was still playing on the biggest screen. This gave me so much life...

Although I was a bit disappointed by the movie to be honest. Completely fell apart in the third act.
Is this 3rd act complaint the new talking point? I swear I've read this exact phrase at least a half dozen times today. Maybe it's the weakest part of the film but completely fell apart is an overreaction IMO.

* Just realized this is more WW OT related and not so much BO related. I apologize. Disregard.
 
Is this 3rd act complaint the new talking point? I swear I've read this exact phrase at least a half dozen times today. Maybe it's the weakest part of the film but completely fell apart is an overreaction IMO.

People have this weird thing going on now days that if the 3rd act features a big fight with a big villain its bad.

Even though that's basically how almost all comic books work.
 

Schlorgan

Member
A film with no director and no release date? There's nothing to 'cancel' as you put it, there's simply not a film far enough along, at this moment in time, to even discuss.
Let's not forget that as disappointingly as Beyond did last year, it was their highest grossing movie.

Was the last MI movie worth the watch?

The one with Brad Bird directing was fun.
Yes. Rogue Nation is just as good as Ghost Protocol, if not sightly better.
 
The fact prequel and spin-off suggestions for the F&F movies are actually alright with the fans should tell you all you need to know about the IPs future compared to Transformers. A movie about Han will make more money than a Bumblebee solo prequel and a Rock & Statham movie will probably outgross Transformers 6 if it even happens.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Lower budget Fast and Furious spin offs starring other members of The Family that focus more on street racing ala Fast 1 and 3 would basically be the best thing ever.
 

Snaku

Banned
The fact prequel and spin-off suggestions for the F&F movies are actually alright with the fans should tell you all you need to know about the IPs future compared to Transformers. A movie about Han will make more money than a Bumblebee solo prequel and a Rock & Statham movie will probably outgross Transformers 6 if it even happens.

I wouldn't write off Bumblebee. They've heavily hinted that with the 80's setting they're going back to using G1-like designs for the bots. That nostalgia trip combined with Travis Knight's directing chops could be more than enough to bring audiences back. Even if it doesn't open big, positive word of mouth could be enough to make it another Wonder Woman.
 

BumRush

Member
Is this 3rd act complaint the new talking point? I swear I've read this exact phrase at least a half dozen times today. Maybe it's the weakest part of the film but completely fell apart is an overreaction IMO.

* Just realized this is more WW OT related and not so much BO related. I apologize. Disregard.

Nah man, don't disregard. I really didn't think the 3rd act was a disaster. It was certainly weaker than act 2 (because the middle was the shit) but I didn't hate it at all. I asked my wife the exact question and she said she loved the ending.
 
You could also see they wanted to do Boy and his Car with the first Transformers trilogy, but only really got to do it for the 1st one. I thought it worked pretty good.

Now? Sure. But back then, I don't think people cared enough about any character enough to bother. I think now that these movies are essential comic book movies, the characters are more important.

And nobody is safe cuh
 

firelogic

Member
This. Fast Five and The Fast and the Furious are barely connected in any way outside of the cast.

I'd argue the "reboot" happened with Fast and Furious (the 4th movie). That's when they introduced the idea of all the forthcoming movies being prequels and gave connective tissue between movies. It also did pretty well at the box office, making $363M WW. The highest grossing Fast movie up to that point. Also it was coming off of Tokyo Drift's $158M gross. It was the jumping off point for Fast Five.
 
I wouldn't write off Bumblebee. They've heavily hinted that with the 80's setting they're going back to using G1-like designs for the bots. That nostalgia trip combined with Travis Knight's directing chops could be more than enough to bring audiences back. Even if it doesn't open big, positive word of mouth could be enough to make it another Wonder Woman.
Wonder Woman is a special case of a long overdue good female superhero movie. Transformers isn't gonna have that same impact.
 

kswiston

Member
My take on the Big 6 studios through their next 5 years of release (end of 2022):


Disney: Disney is in the best shape by far. Not only do they have a very clear release plan through 2020, they have so many redundancies that even if one or two of their initiatives starts to dry up by 2021/2022 the other studios can pick up the slack. While more than one studio would kill for more than a single dependable studio/line of films, Disney currently has 5 (Marvel, Star Wars, their live action fairy tale stuff, Pixar, and Disney Animation). I'm not sure if their other big budget live action attempts will pay off, but with so much guaranteed income, they can afford to take a few risks.

Marvel and Star Wars are both golden through the rest of this decade. I have no idea what is planned for the MCU after Avengers 4 (other than a third GotG and another Spider-Man for Sony), but they haven't even gotten into sequels for Doctor Strange, and Black Panther looks like another promising start. We'll see how Captain Marvel does in a couple of years. Star Wars is in a similar position. Disney might want to hold off on Eps X-XII for a few years, but there are nearly limitless directions that the side films can go. I don't think that the Star Wars films can indefinitely stay over that $500M+ mark domestically, but they can pretty much halve that and still be doing well. Especially if we start getting cheaper entries.

I am hoping that Disney Animation will transition into sequelizing their output in the next 5 years to give Pixar some time to build up more original releases. I could see us getting another Dory film near the end of the next 5 years. Toy Story seems to be on a 10 year cycle. Cars should probably be retired or moved to the small screen.


Warner Bros: While Universal might have more goingfor it in the short term, I think that WB is the second best off going beyond the next 5 years. The DCEU is clearly very popular, and is young enough that WB easily has 5 years left in it before they have to worry about too many shake ups.

I'm not sure if Fantastic Beasts will power through 5 films (or whatever number they were throwing out last fall), but the Harry Potter brand is one of the strongest out there. Easily top 5 among the live action stuff. If people get sick of the prequel stuff, they can always transition to actual sequel material, be that adapting the Cursed Child, or going a different route.

Beyond those two franchises, WB has their part in the Godzilla/Kong monster films, their LEGO films (we'll see how Lego 2 does next year), and a wide assortment of director-oriented films in their schedule (Nolan is almost his own brand if they can keep him happy). There's also the potential to try and relaunch the Matrix if they feel the need for another ongoing franchise.


Universal: I think that Universal's live-action line up will start to age out by the end of the next 5 year period, but they are definitely well on their way to establishing themselves as a major rival to Disney in the Animation space. Even if the shine is coming off the Minions franchise, Illumination is on an amazing box office streak at the moment, giving them plenty of sequels to exploit. Add the library and talent that Dreamworks Animation offers to that (along with Universal's much better marketing strategy), and there's plenty to last out the next half decade.

I think that Fast 9 has a pretty good shot at >$1B worldwide still, but I'm sensing a crash for the franchise shortly after that. We might get Fast 10 and that Rock/Statham spin-off to still decent results, but you can only do the same thing with the same people so many times before audiences move on (as we have been seeing in the past 2 years). Still, that takes them through at least 2021. Jurassic World will get a third film in 2021 or so, but I think that franchise risks repeating what happened to the original set of sequels unless they find a way to really mix up the formula.

Fifty Shades and Pitch Perfect are done within the next year, but they aren't so big that they can't be replaced. The Dark Universe stuff seems DOA, but I expect Universal to make another couple of attempts to get it off the ground. Perhaps with smaller budgets. I have no idea how their partnership stuff with Legendary will go, especially now that Legendary has new owners in China. Pacific Rim 2 seems like a waste of money, but who knows. Universal always does well with the low and mid budget stuff. No reason to think that won't hold true in 5 years.

20th Century Fox: The X-Franchise is as strong as it ever was, and even Fox will have a tough time completely killing it before the early 2020s. Deadpool will get a second sequel in 2020 or 2021. There's plenty more that they could do with the X-Men universe, especially if they sweep aside the approaching 20 year old Singer continuity. They don't even have to reboot per-se. Just stop acknowledging some of the earlier stuff as the existing actors end their contracts. As for Fantastic Four, I would like to believe that the rumors are not true, but who knows. They could try a second reboot to keep the license.

AVATAR is clearly Fox's big hope for the 2020s. I think that we have talked about it enough. Until we are close enough to release that we are actually getting footage, it's hard to make any predictions beyond "the first sequel will probably make a lot of money".

I am not sure how the other aspects of Fox's announced live action lineup will go. They have a ton of projects in the pipeline running the full range of budgets. It also seems like they are taking a few more stabs as the Young Adult(ish) Sci Fi genre. Maybe 1-2 of those will pan out. Maybe not. Blue Sky lost Ice Age, but they are still pretty reliable for mid-budget animation.

Sony: There's a big gap between Sony and the previous four studios. They are betting the farm on Spider-Man, because that's pretty much their only mega-franchise. I'm not really sure how that will work out for them beyond the two Marvel produced films though. Sony has been in a transition period, so I guess they get some benefit of the doubt, but saying that Spider-man has been mismanaged in the past is an understatement. I guess getting a film out there for less than $220M is a good first step.

I don't have much confidence for any of Sony's announced larger budget stuff outside of Spider-Man. We have The Dark Tower and Jumanji this year, and a Charlie's Angels and He-man reboot on the horizon. Sony had great luck with the first two Jump Street movies, but there has been major feet dragging in regards to a third film. We're already looking at a gap of what? 4.5-5 years at best? At some point, it will be too late for people to care. Sony also has Men in Black. However, that is super expensive with Will Smith, and of unknown strength without him. Sony typically does well with their low budget stuff, especially the films targeting ignored demographics. That should continue to work for them.

Sony Pictures Animation also seems to do alright in the mid-budget range. Hotel Transylvania has one more film left, and they have several other projects announced that could do alright for the price tag. I just don't see much from the live action or animation line up that screams $600M+. I suppose it is possible that they could strike lightning with something unannounced in 2020-2022, but they need to start showing serious results before that point first.

Paramount: Paramount has been desperately pursuing Chinese co-financing for their blockbusters for a year or two now. The problem of course is that there is little of proven worth beyond their aging franchises.

Transformers is on a serious decline, to the point that its future is uncertain beyond maybe one more film if they don't manage a course correction. Yes, Transformers has the generational appeal that will allow for a reboot down the road, but that requires a cooldown period.

I think that the Mission Impossible series has hit its apex and now is on the way down. Ghost Protocol gave it a shot in the arm, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect a repeat of that. Tthe next one will still do pretty well, but how many more of these can Cruise sell? Like Matt Damon and the Bourne stuff, I don't think Mission Impossible has any real life post-Cruise either.

TMNT failed. Terminator failed. GitS failed. Jack Reacher went nowhere. Feature film Star Trek went from being the biggest (domestic) relaunch ever to life support in 7 years. I'm not sure what else they have left. I guess they can try some sort of Hasbro shared universe. Paramount does pretty well with low/mid-budget prestige stuff, but I don't see how that differentiates them from Lionsgate, or the many boutique studios/distributors.
 

Slayven

Member
Transformers needs a reboot. Or at least a reboot in design. I just don't care about the bots because i can barely tell them apart. I know Cinematic universe is a dirty word, but i think the movies would benefit by actually feeling connected. They all feel like random epsidoes from a 5 season episodic cartoon
 

kswiston

Member
Transformers needs a reboot. Or at least a reboot in design. I just don't care about the bots because i can barely tell them apart. I know Cinematic universe is a dirty word, but i think the movies would benefit by actually feeling connected. They all feel like random epsidoes from a 5 season episodic cartoon

Audiences love continuity. The start of the current "golden age of television" basically coincided with the transition from episodic to serial dramas. Hidden connections to other films are almost always met with positive reception (assuming that they are done well). I think the dirty word aspect comes from these studio driven cinematic universe mandates without any clear plans on how to build said universe.
 

Slayven

Member
Audiences love continuity. The start of the current "golden age of television" basically coincided with the transition from episodic to serial dramas. Hidden connections to other films are almost always met with positive reception (assuming that they are done well). I think the dirty word aspect comes from these studio driven cinematic universe mandates without any clear plans on how to build said universe.

Yeah it's pretty much the new water cooler talk. But instead of talking about Seinfield Friday mornings, people are talking about the Infinity Gems on Monday morning

If Feige could be cloned Hollywood have done it by now
 
People love buildup.

It's why shit like The Walking Dead/Game of Thrones/Attack on Titan are so popular despite the fact that they blue ball you at every single corner
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
A lot of these mid-2000s franchises simply weren't built to be going onwards for 10 years of non-stop sequels. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Fast & Furious doesn't do so hot either.

I feel like Fast Furious well hit past the point that most of these other franchising that are bombing hit.

Rather, their moves earlier to diversify the cast positioned themselves well ahead of the game for the booming International Market. Alongside not really being a franchise tied to toys, rides, attractions, etc. It's simply just a movie series.

Also helps that the continuity between the flicks is pretty good too, due to having the same writer since 3. He did manage to build up the change pretty nice, from basically a street racer to the super hero bit we have going now.

Compared to Transformers or Pirates.

Transformers clearly had no plan inbetween flicks, each one just did it's own thing, contradicting the last one.
The only Pirate flicks that worked together was 2 and 3, the first was stand alone with 4 and 5 being let's just do another side story...except like Transformers with the 5th leading into their next flick.

People love buildup.

It's why shit like The Walking Dead/Game of Thrones/Attack on Titan are so popular despite the fact that they blue ball you at every single corner

All three of those also share another pretty good trait that seems to be "new".

They can and will kill off characters. Which all three are known for.
 
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