I have to admit I was a bit annoyed that people spoiled who was Ares before the movie came out because of the casting news. Wish the studios did a better job keeping that a secret.
Also, a bit disappointed Ares didn't have the traditional red glowing eyes like int he comics after he put on his armor. Almost a perfect live-action representation.
My wife wanted to see this, so I got us tickets and we went Saturday afternoon... It was actually pretty awesome! I had no idea who Gal Gadot was before WW, but man, she is my new female super hero actress crush... Sorry, Scarlett-Jo.
I can definitely say I did not
see the twist of who ended up being Ares. The general seemed like the obvious but cliche vessel, especially after the things he said while dancing with Diana at the gala. It was funny, my wife commented about how she didn't agree with the choice either. She said that when she thinks of gods, she thinks of big, powerful, hulking beings; not scrawny goofy-looking guys. lol.
Trying to recall the last romantic pairing in a superhero movie that had such genuine and effortless chemistry as Gadot and Pine. It's nice to have a love story that doesn't feel shoehorned or like a focus group tested inclusion. Instead of their relationship feeling like a box to check off, it was instead a large part of emotional core of the movie and was treated with respect.
Saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it. Good sense of humor and enjoyable supporting characters. Really appreciate the slow mo sequences because it at least shows follow through of the punches and kicks instead of typical fast cuts like the David fight in alien. Best D.C. Film for me second to dark knight series.
The best DC movie to date; however, with that said, compared to Marvel movies (because I feel like drawing the comparison), it's about as good as the first Captain America, which itself is pretty far down the list of my favorite Marvel movies.
Some moments felt like a drag, others unwanted.
Diana's exposure to life beyond the front line was pretty short lived, and heading to the front line so quickly felt like a mistake. I understand that they were going for the naïve amazon who wanted nothing more than to help humanity, but it was done too fast, in my opinion, and with contradicting messages.
My biggest complaint was
the pivotal theme of mankind being inherently flawed. Diana spends the entire film pushing to save lives and anguishing over innocent people being killed, which she clearly recognizes, but in the final stretch, she gets so upset just before confronting Aries, says that mankind doesn't deserve her help, and contemplates whether or not to further help... but she had just spent the entire film recognizing that not all of mankind is evil and that there are plenty of innocent people being killed. Her hissy fit really pulled me out of the film and after that, I couldn't really enjoy the final battle much and was waiting for it to be over.
I also felt there were parallels between this movie and Final Fantasy X, starting off on Besaid Island and reaching the end content in such a predictably straight line and fashion, which is not a good thing. Oh, and those three supporting characters are some of the worst I've ever seen in a superhero movie (and yes, I even prefer the supporting cast from Thor and Thor 2 to them). They were uninspiring and the guy with the rifle was quite literally like a god damn Slaking, who happened to have enormous potential but kept having a string of bad luck because he kept refusing to use his basic ability.
Trying to recall the last romantic pairing in a superhero movie that had such genuine and effortless chemistry as Gadot and Pine. It's nice to have a love story that doesn't feel shoehorned or like a focus group tested inclusion. Instead of their relationship feeling like a box to check off, it was instead a large part of emotional core of the movie and was treated with respect.
I think you mean Amazing Spider-Man. The amount of chemistry Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone's capable and smart Gwen puts Mary Jane to shame. MJ in those first three movies is nothing but eye candy and is there only to make Spider-Man look good.
I think you mean Amazing Spider-Man. The amount of chemistry Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone's capable and smart Gwen puts Mary Jane to shame. MJ in those first three movies is nothing but eye candy and is there only to make Spider-Man look good.
The best DC movie to date; however, with that said, compared to Marvel movies (because I feel like drawing the comparison), it's about as good as the first Captain America, which itself is pretty far down the list of my favorite Marvel movies.
This is where I stand. Good movie, not great. My wife loved it, which surprised me cause early on she thought there were some cheesy scenes, but by the very end she was very into it.
I think you mean Amazing Spider-Man. The amount of chemistry Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone's capable and smart Gwen puts Mary Jane to shame. MJ in those first three movies is nothing but eye candy and is there only to make Spider-Man look good.
I have to admit I was a bit annoyed that people spoiled who was Ares before the movie came out because of the casting news. Wish the studios did a better job keeping that a secret.
Also, a bit disappointed Ares didn't have the traditional red glowing eyes like int he comics after he put on his armor. Almost a perfect live-action representation.
Gotta stay away from media now a days, blackouts are essential since every YouTube "star" is going to freeze frame every piece of media and have a 45min exposition on it.
My rule of thumb is if something looks interesting after the teaser and first trailer; I go blackout and stay away from everything talking about it untill release.
I think you mean Amazing Spider-Man. The amount of chemistry Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone's capable and smart Gwen puts Mary Jane to shame. MJ in those first three movies is nothing but eye candy and is there only to make Spider-Man look good.
Kirsten Dunst in Spider-Man is an awesome performance. And responsible for me falling for really messed up women with gigantic issues. She had mad chemistry with Tobey in that one, and that upside down kiss is easily the most iconic romantic moment in any film outside of Catwoman giving Max Shreck the shocker.
Kirsten Dunst in Spider-Man is an awesome performance. And responsible for me falling for really messed up women with gigantic issues. She had mad chemistry with Tobey in that one, and that upside down kiss is easily the most iconic romantic moment in any film outside of Catwoman giving Max Shreck the shocker.
Bale & Rachel#1 - No
Bale & Rachel#2 - Why
Downey & Paltrow - Meh
Raimi spidermen - Little bit
Reboot spidermen - Yes, but well duh
Hulk & Black widow - Barf
Cavill and Lois - Little bit
Evans and Scarlett - Surprising
Bale & Rachel#1 - No
Bale & Rachel#2 - Why
Downey & Paltrow - Meh Raimi spidermen - Little bit
Reboot spidermen - Yes, but well duh
Hulk & Black widow - Barf
Cavill and Lois - Little bit
Evans and Scarlett - Surprising
RDJ and Paltrow killed in their first scene together. That was probably the last one I really was sold on until Gadot/Pine. Cap and Peggy were great as well, but (as is the point of their story) there's an inherent wall put up between the two of them. With the tragedy being they just never were able to celebrate tearing it down.
Gadot and Pine have the best chemistry by far of any romantic pair I've seen in a superhero flick. It really started from their first encounter on the beach and just got stronger as the film went on. The closing scene where she watches his plane explode really hit me so well done Patty.
I have to admit I was a bit annoyed that people spoiled who was Ares before the movie came out because of the casting news. Wish the studios did a better job keeping that a secret.
Also, a bit disappointed Ares didn't have the traditional red glowing eyes like int he comics after he put on his armor. Almost a perfect live-action representation.
I don't get where the fuck their romance was supposed to be coming from. They just look starry-eyed, at one another in MoS, and that's supposed to sell their romance.
Watched it last night and found it to be medicore at best. The funny moments seemed forced and somewhat obvious (couldn't stand the secretary) and the strong and interesting characters died to quickly (Antiope). I guess the ridiculousness of carrying a sword in a dress is not even worth discussing when it comes to a super hero movie. The story arc felt like a cliche fest whose only objective seemed to check a designed-by-Committee plot about good vs evil. Great acting by Gadot, that much is undeniable.
This is the very first time in a long time that I find myself disagreeing with the consensus. Some of the reviews and the claims around here (best superhero movie ever) are puzzling to me. Might be I'm to old and bitter now.
Watched it last night and found it to be medicore at best. The funny moments seemed forced and somewhat obvious (couldn't stand the secretary) and the strong and interesting characters died to quickly (Antiope). I guess the ridiculousness of carrying a sword in a dress is not even worth discussing when it comes to a super hero movie. The story arc felt like a cliche fest whose only objective seemed to check a designed-by-Committee Great acting by Gadot, that much is undeniable.
This is the very first time in a long time that I find myself disagreeing with the consensus. Some of the reviews and the claims around here (best superhero movie ever) are puzzling to me. Might be I'm to old and bitter now.
The only thing I didn't like about the film, and this seems to be a recurring problem in all the DCU movies so far, is that the big action finale was a big CG fest. Wonder Woman didn't need that. Luckily, unlike MoS and BvS, everything else about WW was brilliant. But these action setpieces of clearly CG characters fighting with other clearly CG characters feels weightless, both literally and emotionally.
The only thing I didn't like about the film, and this seems to be a recurring problem in all the DCU movies so far, is that the big action finale was a big CG fest. Wonder Woman didn't need that. Luckily, unlike MoS and BvS, everything else about WW was brilliant. But these action setpieces of clearly CG characters fighting with other clearly CG characters feels weightless, both literally and emotionally.
I didn't mind that it was a CGI magic fight largely because Diana is discovering her skills/abilities along with the audience throughout the film, so it makes sense that last battle is showing what she can really withstand and dish out.
The issue I DO have is that the visual effects weren't great, and they could have created a much more inventive and interesting battle. But in the end it's a pretty short sequence and the actual heart of the climax and battle is the last scene between Diana and Trevor, and Diana making the choice to believe in humankind despite being completely disillusioned.
They got the emotional and character aspect of it down perfectly for me, so if they had the surrounding battle be really amazing, I wouldn't have a single thing to complain about as far as the climax is concerned.
Hmmm. I'd consider WW on par with most of those but to each their own. I guess maybe WW was a little lighter than most of them but it had plenty of seriousness IMO.
Gotta stay away from media now a days, blackouts are essential since every YouTube "star" is going to freeze frame every piece of media and have a 45min exposition on it.
My rule of thumb is if something looks interesting after the teaser and first trailer; I go blackout and stay away from everything talking about it untill release.
I didn't mind that it was a CGI magic fight largely because Diana is discovering her skills/abilities along with the audience throughout the film, so it makes sense that last battle is showing what she can really withstand and dish out.
The issue I DO have is that the visual effects weren't great, and they could have created a much more inventive and interesting battle. But in the end it's a pretty short sequence and the actual heart of the climax and battle is the last scene between Diana and Trevor, and Diana making the choice to believe in humankind despite being completely disillusioned.
They got the emotional and character aspect of it down perfectly for me, so if they had the surrounding battle be really amazing, I wouldn't have a single thing to complain about as far as the climax is concerned.
This is about where I'm at as well. While I don't think it's necessary, I actually like (most) of the fight between Diana and Ares. Most importantly, it wasn't just a fight ala BvS where it's two characters beating the crap out of each other. There's constant dialogue between the two, Ares alternately testing Diana's abilities and trying to swing her to his point of view. If it was just a brawl from the onset it would have really been a missed opportunity. But they kept the focus on character through most of it. And I really liked a lot of the imagery, in particular Ares pulling the armor onto himself from the wreckage around them walking through flames as it builds; the way he carves the eye slots into his helmet.
But the CG was poor in quite a few shots, including several when they are engaged in melee combat and Ares is clearly a poorly animated character with Gal (or double) flailing against nothing. And Ares jumped from being an interesting villain to generic the moment he did the whole, "Then I shall destroy youuuu!!!" thing at the end while firing lightening at Diana.
A few things I really like now that I've seen it twice and had time to mull it over.
No one calls Diana Wonder Woman. She's just Diana. I kinda hope she stays that way, but I'm guessing someone in JL will call her that.
She's wearing a skimpy set of armor, but she's never filmed in a way that sexualizes it. There's no change in how the camera frames her whether in a trench coat or in her armor; it's filmed like she's in armor, not a swimsuit. The posters before release actually did that more than the movie did.
The long scenes with Gadot and Pine just letting their characters clash and work themselves out are unusually generous, but kept interesting such that they don't hurt the pacing. And the payoff to them was enormous at the end. Pine coming out of the bath; the long, awkward scene on the boat, talking about sleeping together; the slow dance after the village is freed; most crucially the extended scene after Diana has killed the general. So many superhero movies would have rushed through any of those, but here they just let the characters play off one another for a while, and Pine and Gadot are so good it never drags for a moment.
The scene after she kills the general and Steve is trying to get through to her what people are really like is really, really good ("It might not be my fault - but maybe it is!"). And it's a couple minutes long. So many of these movies would have rushed that scene into a 30 second incomplete shouting match, but they made it a whole conversation and let it play out. And it's just heartbreaking seeing the realization hit and break Diana in the end.
That's why this movie works so well for me. They didn't rush the character work, which is why I gave a shit in the end.
Also, favorite moment: Diana turning to let her hair down in the trenches outside NML. Second favorite: when she takes a bit of the ice cream from the vendor. My gawd she looked so happy.
I just wanted to get my thoughts down after seeing/reading/etc a lot of people talk about Wonder Woman's ending being its Achilles heel (and i have some time on my hands), and I just can't agree. I don't think I have anything that's really insightful to say, but I just wanted to write out how I perceived the ending. Taking the film as a whole, I don't see the ending as being a "shit the bed" moment at all, unless you're purely talking about action (which is serviceable but could be way better to match the first two acts). I mean I guess I'm the minority in thinking that the ending is good so maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see, but I think I'm working with what the film explicitly shows/explains, and I feel like a lot of the criticisms about the ending gloss over some things to make their point that "it devolves into X".
I can see how people can superficially compare it to a "BvS" ending, with CG destruction and mayhem. But it's broken down into several parts with key character beats and and two major dilemmas: The plane about to drop bombs over London, and Ares appealing to Diana. Where most endings go for a "I need to save my family/loved one/important person"-type of motivation for the finale, I think Diana's predicament in the end is more interestingly presented than that, and I like that her final confrontation is a challenge to why Diana fights in the first place. Trevor gets the usual "stop plan X" ending, and Diana gets a choice ending, and both are done well in my opinion.
Diana is actively pursuing Ares the entire film because she believes he is the sole reason why the war is happening. But in the end when she finally faces Ares, Diana's perception of him and humanity changes radically. Ares makes her come to terms that the humans started the war themselves, she was lied to by the Amazons, and is ultimately left with a choice when she's at her lowest point after seeing Trevor die. But ultimately, she perseveres. I really like how it was all laid out to test Diana, and not in a drawn out brawl.
The final battle between Diana and Ares isn't when they're jumping around and ripping up the runway -- Ares is just toying with Diana and doesn't actually try to kill her. The real battle is Ares breaking her spirit, and in her despair making a case that humans are a mistake so that she will help him. And after she witnesses Trevor die and she's at her weakest, Ares tries to secure his victory when he literally brings Dr. Poison to Diana's feet as an example: someone acting on their free will who is largely responsible for countless innocent deaths, including those of the village she just saved, not to mention Trevor -- and leaves Diana to make the final judgement on mankind.
Ares: "She is a perfect example of these humans, unworthy of your sympathy. Destroy her, you know she deserves it. They all do."
He isn't just giving Dr Poison to Diana simply as someone to kill, he presents Dr Poison to her as an offer; a final temptation to join his side when she is at her weakest, overcome with rage.
That's why I can't agree with people saying that Dr Poison and Ludendorff were pointless additions. Obviously Ludendorff served as the misdirection (even if we all knew it as the audience, he motivated Diana to the final act and was the key to her disillusionment) and Dr Poison was the initial motivation for Trevor to act and crash in Themyscira (and also is responsible for his death), but they also serve as prime examples of people who were committing unspeakable crimes against humanity without Ares's direct intervention -- the clearest way for Diana to see what Ares is talking about in the climax.
It's only when Diana reaches self-actualization and Ares sees that it's completely futile to get her to join him that he concludes Diana must be destroyed, and she swiftly kills(?) him afterwards with her newly discovered God powers. Pretty clean!
Another criticism I see frequently is the scene after the battle when everyone hugs each other, and that it betrays the idea that Ares isn't the cause of the war because the remaining people are coming together right after Ares is defeated. I think that's a knee-jerk response that doesn't hold true if you see everything the film has done. In one of Ludendorff's first scenes they have a soldier reporting to him that their soldiers have had no food or sleep. The council meeting leaders shun Ludendorff's plans in favor of the armistice to save their starving and ill-equipped troops from certain death.
Dropping the gas bombs over London was the last act they could make that could change the tide of war -- and they clearly failed, with their hangar being blown to bits for good measure. At this point everyone there should know that Germany's defeat is inevitable. The remaining soldiers left on that destroyed airfield are the FIRST people who know that the war is essentially over, and are glad they're alive after all the shit that just took place.
So in the end... I really like this ending lol
Really, my main complaint about the last act as I stated before is that the visual effects were lackluster and the God fighting was uninspired. Things that would be good frosting for the last act, not make or break it.
Also, I'm not making the case that the film is without fault. A number of them stood out all the more with repeat viewings. The odd editing of Diana getting her sword back when facing Ares is weird, the fact that there's a bunch of posts as to why the battleship didn't make it to the shores of Themyscira means it wasn't communicated well at all, full-body CG shots look absolutely cartoonish, there are a number of scenes that didn't need slow motion, some lines and their delivery don't land well, and Ares' keeping his mustache for thousands of years is silly, among other things.
the pivotal theme of mankind being inherently flawed. Diana spends the entire film pushing to save lives and anguishing over innocent people being killed, which she clearly recognizes, but in the final stretch, she gets so upset just before confronting Aries, says that mankind doesn't deserve her help, and contemplates whether or not to further help... but she had just spent the entire film recognizing that not all of mankind is evil and that there are plenty of innocent people being killed. Her hissy fit really pulled me out of the film and after that, I couldn't really enjoy the final battle much and was waiting for it to be over.
She did spend the entire film recognizing that not all of mankind is evil, but in her eyes, it was a matter of if they were brainwashed by Ares or not, not human nature. Before she meets Ares she was certain that he was killed, and it shattered her current view of humankind. I think her response was purely emotional.
Saw Wonder Woman yesterday. Great movie. Has to be up there with the top tier. 2 things came to mind after seeing it though
1. I wonder how they are going to play her character going forward. Part of her charm was the naïveté and the clashing of the 2 worlds. Jaded/cynical and experienced WW, I wonder how interesting she's going to be
2 I feel like this doesn't need a sequel. Her character arc imo was wrapped up nicely. I don't think there's anything else to do with the character. Especially in modern day. I could see if the sequel had her dealing with WW2 and that's what finally made her become jaded towards man, but I don't see anything else to do with the character. Batman on one hand has 3 phases to his arc. His beginning, normal career as Batman with the bat family, and then his eventual retirement/demise. I don't see it with WW
I suspect the sequel will go down a route similar to TWS. That's the easiest parallel to draw, Captain America and Wonder Woman. Meaning it'll be set in the present and likely something more grounded.
Advantage Wonder Woman though for having a great first film while Captain's first just stinks.
What did your version of her history look like? Did you have a reason for her facial scars?
I went to Patty Jenkins and asked, What happened to her? And she said, She did it on purpose. I was like, What? Patty, youre going further than I ever imagined. She said, She wants to provoke painful suffering, so she tested her own gas on her own face. She wanted to know how deep this form of her gas would go, so she put it on her own face. You can see half of her face is completely gone. This is the sadistic side of Dr. Maru. And that was the idea of Patty Jenkins, who gave me the best tools ever to work with a character.
What do you know about Dr. Marus future? Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins are contracted for a second Wonder Woman movie. Are you?
Yes yes yes. But I have no answer for that. As you know, when these movies are made, they ask you basically to marry them for the rest of your life. [Laughs] Id be so happy to be back, to be able to be evil again. Its so good, its so fantastic.
A really cool article. Especially like what she says about Patty and illuminates what directors for blockbusters have to endure.
I would love to see at least a mention of Maru in a future film. It's interesting to think about how the events of WW affected her, and what she may have gone off to do. More evil? Some good?
I just wanted to say I just saw this movie. I'm really glad I did. I was gonna pass an offer for a VIP screening, but noticed a 70mm feature taking place at the same theatre as well. Really loved it. Bang up job by everyone.
