crisdecuba
Member
I'm so happy it worked out this way haha
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Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter 3N16MA
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Sheesh. This is a better captain America the first avenger movie. Everything that movie should have been.
Legit beautiful. The only movie I can remember where I actually stayed for the credits because I wanted to, and not because of a stinger.
I want a game in that art style, or at least an animated movie
Only if The First Avenger was supposed to have a terrible third act.
flintstryker
Banned
This movie was decent but it seems to continue the trend of recent comic book movies having shit villains.
sems4arsenal
Member
That was rather enjoyable. Really well done and best DCEU movie (I liked MOS and BVS UC). My only real gripe is some of the editing of scenes like when she's fighting the Ludengrof and then grabs her sword magically. Some of the transitions in the fights are a bit jarring and maybe too much slow-mo. But that's a minor gripe in a generally solid movie.
Hype for JL increasing.
Hype for JL increasing.
I mean First Avenger did have a terrible third act. Everything after that action montage was kind of forgettable and directionless, undermining the pitch-perfect tone of the first half.
crisdecuba
Member
It did have a terrible third act.
You mean the third act with the fight montage was amazing? Please.
*refer to no man's land scene to see how a war movie can be done*
Best DC movie so far. It's as if they decided to let WW literally loosen her hair. Aside from the wonky SFX, something still felt a bit "off"... but compared to the preceding movies, it is better in every way.
WW absolutely must now be the leader of the JL. One cannot help but cheer for her. Will they bother to explain her absence in the Superman/Batman saga?
I am thankful they did not use the Invisible Jet in the final scenes...
I wonder how Gal felt fighting the Germans?
WW absolutely must now be the leader of the JL. One cannot help but cheer for her. Will they bother to explain her absence in the Superman/Batman saga?
I am thankful they did not use the Invisible Jet in the final scenes...
I wonder how Gal felt fighting the Germans?
Wonder Woman hit higher highs than The First Avenger but was overall a lot less consistent. Wonder Woman bounces from so-so to amazing to absolutely dreadful. Once The First Avenger gets going, it stays pretty consistently solid throughout. You could argue that the back half is worse than the first but I think the assault on the HYDRA base and Steve's sacrifice both did the job.
Like, at no point does it hit the concrete floor of "hulking CGI monster with goofy mustache starts Magento-ing shit everywhere."
Like, at no point does it hit the concrete floor of "hulking CGI monster with goofy mustache starts Magento-ing shit everywhere."
A comic book movie with terrible action is the bottom of the barrel for me. And like i said, I will never forgive the fight montage scene.
Unless they're truly special (No Man's Land, for one example), I tune out for action scenes. The fact TFA glossed over the boring "guy punch guy" scenes is a bonus for me.
The only legitimately good, memorable, interesting action sequences for me in superhero movies are No Man's Land and Bruce Wayne in Metropolis (in BvS). I don't think the MCU has really had one that doesn't lose my interest. Maybe the big Civil War fight? There's that one in Iron Man 3 where his suit flies in piece by piece that was decent, too.
crisdecuba
Member
Once TFA gets going, they montage all the potentially cool action and settle into a surprisingly boring latter half of the movie.
#1 defender
Member
As oppposed to this ?
And the No Man's Land scene is the gold standard for war movies now ? Lol, I'll just wait for the new superhero movie hype to go down.
Mihos
Gold Member
It was good for a DC movie. The Dark Knight is still the best DC by far.
Gal and Chris did a good job, but I got none of the emotional stuff people keep talking about.
DC really needs to work on their power scaling between fights, there is no baseline to to them. Car, Tank, Planet... all seem to be interchangeable object, no cleverness to over come stuff, just 'fuck it' she is stronger for this fight because we need to escalate things over the last fight'. A random sniper, god of war, or 4 dudes in an ally all take the same amount of effort to beat. X-Men movies do the same thing.
Gal and Chris did a good job, but I got none of the emotional stuff people keep talking about.
DC really needs to work on their power scaling between fights, there is no baseline to to them. Car, Tank, Planet... all seem to be interchangeable object, no cleverness to over come stuff, just 'fuck it' she is stronger for this fight because we need to escalate things over the last fight'. A random sniper, god of war, or 4 dudes in an ally all take the same amount of effort to beat. X-Men movies do the same thing.
shinra-bansho
Member
Watched it today. Enjoyable. Not phenomenal but good.
crisdecuba
Member
If that's all you got out of the final act of the movie then I don't know what to tell you. But yes, even just comparing like for like, I'll take that over the action in the final act of TFA.As oppposed to this ?
Edit: Aww why'd you edit out my comment from your post? :-(
Simply being as reductive as those calling TFA's a montage, and lol, edited out as I didn't want to generalise my reply to all.
crisdecuba
Member
fair enough. I'll accept my comment being rejected cuz I was referring to the third act of TFA as a whole. There's a reason why everyone is talking about that scene.
There hasn't been anything like it in any recent superhero films such as Guardians, Logan, Dr.Strange....and certainly not First Avenger.
Wonder Woman also hit all the emotional notes right.
See, but those action scenes - almost certainly - would have been boring. I'd rather have them take up 2 minutes of the movie than 20.
But I also would have preferred if Civil War was two hours of arguing about ethics in a boardroom, and they didn't bother flying around punching, so I'll accept I'm the minority there.
Nah. Steve and Peggy trying to have a casual conversation over the radio until the line goes silent? Understated and moving. Diana watching Steve's plane explode, hulking out, and punching through a bunch of mooks? Overwrought and silly.
The village/dance scene hits the right notes, but otherwise I didn't "feel" anything throughout the movie. Logan and GOTG2 were both significantly more satisfying on an emotional level.
Diana and Trevor were together throughout the whole movie. I don't think they spent a minute apart after they met.
Steve and Peggy wasn't. They didn't have more than a few scenes together....so what does it matter about their conversation at the end?
"I had a date" was a great closer.
I buy Steve's reaction as he's about to blow himself up - that was pretty intense. But I don't buy Diana's. "My boyfriend died so now I'm gonna tear apart the German army with my godlike powers" is not an emotional response I connect to.
In general I didn't like the Diana/Steve romance. Two fine characters alone but their chemistry just didn't show for me - he talks down to her like a child, she shows him the same universal sort of love she shows to random soldiers, displaced villagers, and ice cream salesmen.
crisdecuba
Member
Cap's sacrifice on the plane, including his interaction with Peggy, works well enough but his performance in that scene is such a one-note "slight grimace face" that it fell flat for me. Peggy showed decent emotion, but a bit too understated. I would have preferred seeing her struggle a bit more to carry on the casual conversation (I'm reminded of Bryan Cranston's performance in the Ozymandius episode of BB, where his voice conveys one emotion while his facial expressions convey the emotions he's fighting against).
Trevor's sacrifice, on the other hand, comes with such a great performance by Chris Pine on the plane. Gun aimed, he struggles to calm and encourage himself to go through with it, and you can see several emotions and thoughts at play out in that extended shot on his face. It's great and connected me to the moment much moreso than in TFA.
I also am much more a fan of Diana's intense emotional response (what you call overwrought), because it's MUCH more along the lines of how I would have responded.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
People are reading too much into Diana's feelings for Steve. He loves her, for sure-- but she's as much moved by his sacrifice than by personal feelings. And she doesn't Hulk out for revenge when he dies-- she does so because his sacrifice has convinced her that humanity is worth fighting for.
People are so conditioned to movie romance that they see more of one than there is.
People are so conditioned to movie romance that they see more of one than there is.
crisdecuba
Member
I struggle to imagine a person whose first love (you reduce it to boyfriend, but that's certainly underselling the only real romantic emotional and sexual relationship of her life with a man whose convictictions she's come to admire, especially in his final choice to sacrifice himself, which convinces her to have hope for mankind) -- I struggle to imagine a person who doesn't respond similarly to the sudden death of their first love.
Also the relationship is much more bidirectional than what you're reducing it to. She makes him nervous in Themyscira, she publicly chides him for lacking conviction, she inspires him to not accept the way things are in no man's land, and he turns to her in the final sequence, begging for her help because he's come to understand who she is. Yes, he talks down to her at times, but It isn't perpetual, and it changes over time as a part of the progression of his journey toward understanding her.
Mr. Poolman
Member
Watched it after the stellar reviews (as I promised).
It was a bit disappointing after the hype, it was good, but not great.
Easily the best DCU movie, but well, that is a goddamn low bar.
It was a bit disappointing after the hype, it was good, but not great.
Easily the best DCU movie, but well, that is a goddamn low bar.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
saw it last night, really enjoyed it.
There were some bad effects that really hampered some scenes, like WW leaving the trenches in no man's land had some bad green screening. It improved immensely as that scene hit its climax and turned into basically the best part of the whole movie.
I loved the dynamic of Steven and Diana, Chris Pine and Gal Gadot were both fantastic. Sameer was a great side character, though Chief and Charlie didn't result in much.
I loved that the existence of Ares was a guessing game right up until he showed up. Him existing and not being exactly what she thought he was was the most expected outcome due to Diana's mother constantly talking about "him", but right up until he appeared I figured there was a chance that he didnt exist at all.
My main complaints were that a lot of the prologue wasn't very interesting and the acting outside of Gal was hammy. It improved when Steve showed up, and the fight on the beach was cool if not amazingly choreographed. And Doctor Poison was really lame. Bad acting and uninteresting character.
There were some bad effects that really hampered some scenes, like WW leaving the trenches in no man's land had some bad green screening. It improved immensely as that scene hit its climax and turned into basically the best part of the whole movie.
I loved the dynamic of Steven and Diana, Chris Pine and Gal Gadot were both fantastic. Sameer was a great side character, though Chief and Charlie didn't result in much.
I loved that the existence of Ares was a guessing game right up until he showed up. Him existing and not being exactly what she thought he was was the most expected outcome due to Diana's mother constantly talking about "him", but right up until he appeared I figured there was a chance that he didnt exist at all.
My main complaints were that a lot of the prologue wasn't very interesting and the acting outside of Gal was hammy. It improved when Steve showed up, and the fight on the beach was cool if not amazingly choreographed. And Doctor Poison was really lame. Bad acting and uninteresting character.
Peggy and Cap's romance isn't bad, but to me it unfolded ln a typical hollywood way because the journey of their relationship were just brief snippets throughout the film. Atwell was trying her best to sell the emotions, but Chris Evans had little to no chemistry with her on screen, so their "last" moment at the end of the film didn't connect -- It was just a typical Hollywood romance plot to me, albeit the best that MCU has put out (not that there's competition, yikes).
I guess Gadot and Pine's chemistry either works with you or it doesn't, but far more people feel it does.
The ending of WW is fairly sloppy in execution -- the fact that everyone is talking about the superficial aspects of WW's ending (CGI, silly looking Ares) is testament to that. But the actual story and character beats of the ending are solid, paying off everything that came before it.
I guess Gadot and Pine's chemistry either works with you or it doesn't, but far more people feel it does.
The ending of WW is fairly sloppy in execution -- the fact that everyone is talking about the superficial aspects of WW's ending (CGI, silly looking Ares) is testament to that. But the actual story and character beats of the ending are solid, paying off everything that came before it.
crisdecuba
Member
NAILED IT!
I just came out of the cinema (it was just released today here in Spain) and I really don't get the hype behind this. It was OK.
CG effects were pretty mediocre, Ares was just ridiculous (dat moustache), and the supporting characters were completely unnecessary. I think the film starts strong but gets progressively worse as it goes along.
I can't remember where I read/heard something along the lines of 'this is the best superhero movie yet' but man, I can't disagree more.
If anyone gave a damn about a random internet person's opinion and I had to score it I would give it a 6.8.
CG effects were pretty mediocre, Ares was just ridiculous (dat moustache), and the supporting characters were completely unnecessary. I think the film starts strong but gets progressively worse as it goes along.
I can't remember where I read/heard something along the lines of 'this is the best superhero movie yet' but man, I can't disagree more.
If anyone gave a damn about a random internet person's opinion and I had to score it I would give it a 6.8.
crisdecuba
Member
Sounds like you let your expectations get too high. The movie succeeds on the strength of the relationships, the optimism and idealism of the main character, and on a straightforward story with clear themes that pay off. It's not the best superhero movie ever (not sure why you would latch onto the most extreme praise), but it's enjoyable, earnest, and touching.
But the relationships... aren't that strong. That ending 'oh no, my boyfriend who I've known for like a week just died!' literally made me laugh (and I don't think it was supposed to).
I don't think I latch into the praise, I wasn't expecting 'the best superhero movie yet', I was just surprised anyone would say that, but hey, that's opinions for ya.
I mean, it's not a bad film. I just found it to be completely average in almost every aspect. I really doubt I will remember this in a couple years time.
crisdecuba
Member
You're misreading the ending. As Ignatz mentioned earlier, "she's as much moved by his sacrifice than by personal feelings. And she doesn't Hulk out for "revenge" when he dies-- she does so because his sacrifice has convinced her that humanity is worth fighting for."
As for the chemistry and relationship between Gadot and Pine, that's certainly a matter of opinion, though you'd be in the minority on this one.
You're misreading the ending. As Ignatz mentioned earlier, "she's as much moved by his sacrifice than by personal feelings. And she doesn't Hulk out for "revenge" when he dies-- she does so because his sacrifice has convinced her that humanity is worth fighting for."
As for the chemistry and relationship between Gadot and Pine, that's certainly a matter of opinion, though you'd be in the minority on this one.
I'm happy to see you're so passionate about this film. I think it says a lot about the scene how, even with that supposed extra layer of emotion, it still manages to fall flat. Sure, it's a matter of opinion and I very well may be in the minority (although I LOL at putting any value in what the majority considers good when we've had like 10 Fast and Furious, Transformers, and Pirates of the Caribbean films because people still gobble them up).
Also, I find it funny how Steve's sacrifice convinces Diana humanity is worth fighting for but then she immediately proceeds to maul a dozen German soldiers before confronting Ares.
Chemistry between the actors was there sure, it's just brought down by a mediocre script in my opinion.
But who knows, maybe I'm not smart enough to understand all the hidden complexities in this film.
crisdecuba
Member
Not so much passionate (I think it's a 7.5-8) as I simply disagree with your perspective. I don't think it says a lot about the scene that it fell flat for you because you weren't understanding the scene.
And it's not just Steve's sacrifice - the film makes it a point to show her taking in the actions of the other men as well and seeing how they're willing to fight despite it being futile. Combine that with her sense of loss re: Trevor and you have some who's decided to fight, and she fights the people trying to carry out the gas bombing. And for what it's worth, I don't think highly at all of the FF, transformers, and pirates series, and I was still very much sold on the relationship between Diana and Trevor. TheTylerDurden
Member
The relationships are very strong.
This is actually the entire point on which the movie lives or dies. I get that some people don't buy it, but it seems that the majority really do. There's nothing wrong with feeling like it didn't work for you. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I do find that to enjoy the movie, you have to be completely open to the character and her origin story. There's a lot of emotional threads woven throughout the film, and I've noticed the people who do criticize just aren't buying the emotional tones.
It resonated with me, so I enjoyed the film immensely. I don't give a damn if the CG was less than stellar.
I wonder how many more people are going to say this word for word like it's impossible to just say WW was good and leave it at that. The way this is worded it comes off as WW isn't good its just the best looking shit in a pile of shit.
TheTylerDurden
Member
Agree with this.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
While I didn't love WW as much as most people (still thought it was good for the most part), it significantly enhanced BvS for me, which was very surprising. I hated it in theaters, almost fell asleep while watching the ultimate cut. But for some reason I watched it again for a third time two days ago and kinda enjoyed it as a sequel to WW. It went from a 3 to a 5/10 for me.
Yeah, she's not in it for long, but I paid a lot more attention to the film during the Doomsday fight since I now care about the character. I've always been a fan of comic-book WW but they never really properly introduced her in BvS. And thematically, WW being a prequel also puts the dreary tone of BvS in context. Still not a great movie obviously, as some of its flaws are irredeemable, but I'm glad I revisited it.
Yeah, she's not in it for long, but I paid a lot more attention to the film during the Doomsday fight since I now care about the character. I've always been a fan of comic-book WW but they never really properly introduced her in BvS. And thematically, WW being a prequel also puts the dreary tone of BvS in context. Still not a great movie obviously, as some of its flaws are irredeemable, but I'm glad I revisited it.
No Man's Land sequence might be one of the best, if not the best, "superhero" sequences of all time. I got goosebumps watching that. Fucking loved the movie more than I thought I would.
Yeah the third act was a "big dumb CGI battle", but I felt like the whole movie built up to that moment, I didn't think it was out of place. And even if we did see very little of Sir Patrick, I think it was a good idea to execute it that way to show how Ares "whispers" and does background job to fuck shit up. Also, almost teared up with the Diana and Trevor goodbye. Chris Pine did an excellent job, and Gal was WONDERFUL.
Yeah the third act was a "big dumb CGI battle", but I felt like the whole movie built up to that moment, I didn't think it was out of place. And even if we did see very little of Sir Patrick, I think it was a good idea to execute it that way to show how Ares "whispers" and does background job to fuck shit up. Also, almost teared up with the Diana and Trevor goodbye. Chris Pine did an excellent job, and Gal was WONDERFUL.
Finally watched this.
I don't understand the absurd hate for the third act. It doesn't feel out of place at all and it's executed in a great way. It's not as CGI bloated as I was expecting nor is it even long. The real horrible act is the first.
It's so mediocre it almost destroyed the whole film for me. It's cheesy, it's hammy and has a weird tone that doesn't fit the rest of the movie. They should've cut that shit altogether or make it half the length, the movie takes a lot to get rolling.
Crappy first act aside, the more I think about the movie the more I like it.
It has soul, it's inspiring, it has believable characters, the story is good adventurous comic fun with over the top villains. It manages to create a much better world in one film that Snyder in 2.
I loved how much heart it had. Encouraging and melancholic, superheroish and realistic at the same time.
It not only is the best DC movie, it's also one of the best superhero movies I've seen.
Old school fun with no overuse of jokes, no connected universe shit and actual stakes. Such a refreshing experience.
Her first introduction as Wonder Woman (when she saves the town) is now automatically one of my favorite scenes in a superhero movie ever.
Inspiring, heroic, badass. That's what a fucking superhero is, not a depressed murderer.
For all I care Jenkins can overtake the reigns and Snyder can stop making DC movies forever.
I'm sure she can make an even better movie now that she doesn't have to tell the origin with a subpar shitty first act.
I wish they'd release a 'unextended cut' where the beginning is cut in half tho.
I also wish Wonder Woman would be the role model for little girls and teens from now on instead of Kardashians and similar talentless trash. They're both fictional anyways. Let them want to make the world a better place instead of making snapchat selfies and twerk their asses.
I don't understand the absurd hate for the third act. It doesn't feel out of place at all and it's executed in a great way. It's not as CGI bloated as I was expecting nor is it even long. The real horrible act is the first.
It's so mediocre it almost destroyed the whole film for me. It's cheesy, it's hammy and has a weird tone that doesn't fit the rest of the movie. They should've cut that shit altogether or make it half the length, the movie takes a lot to get rolling.
Crappy first act aside, the more I think about the movie the more I like it.
It has soul, it's inspiring, it has believable characters, the story is good adventurous comic fun with over the top villains. It manages to create a much better world in one film that Snyder in 2.
I loved how much heart it had. Encouraging and melancholic, superheroish and realistic at the same time.
It not only is the best DC movie, it's also one of the best superhero movies I've seen.
Old school fun with no overuse of jokes, no connected universe shit and actual stakes. Such a refreshing experience.
Her first introduction as Wonder Woman (when she saves the town) is now automatically one of my favorite scenes in a superhero movie ever.
Inspiring, heroic, badass. That's what a fucking superhero is, not a depressed murderer.
For all I care Jenkins can overtake the reigns and Snyder can stop making DC movies forever.
I'm sure she can make an even better movie now that she doesn't have to tell the origin with a subpar shitty first act.
I wish they'd release a 'unextended cut' where the beginning is cut in half tho.
I also wish Wonder Woman would be the role model for little girls and teens from now on instead of Kardashians and similar talentless trash. They're both fictional anyways. Let them want to make the world a better place instead of making snapchat selfies and twerk their asses.
Souldriver
Member
For me the fight on the beach with the Amazons and the moment Diana shelters behind her shield in no man's land are the two goosebumps scenes for me. The former has some mighty impressive choreography, and the contrast of women with bow, arrow and physical strength fighting men with guns give it an extra dimension.
Coincidentally both scenes still are somewhat grounded. The fights cause loss in life on both sides, and Diana does not really know yet that she's basically invincible, so she's also more careful and hesitant.
The more she becomes a true god, the more annoyed I got. For example in the village where the men are risking their lives to build a ramp for Diana to use as jumping point... Eeeh, didn't we see her basically jump a half a mile towards that tower in the beginning of the film?
By the end its God vs God with lasers and apocalyptic scenery, and I lost interest.
The emotional stakes are still real, but it's a shame that wonder woman is just so very powerful that once you realize that, and the movie adresses it, the internal logic falls completely apart.
I guess that's the problem with making movies about superheroes. All in all I still think they did a fine job for most of the movie.
I also had quite a few laughs, especially the London parts. When the one guy starts speaking French 'I only need a picture of your face as payment' I lost it.
Very good film, not great film but considering the source material very impressive.
Coincidentally both scenes still are somewhat grounded. The fights cause loss in life on both sides, and Diana does not really know yet that she's basically invincible, so she's also more careful and hesitant.
The more she becomes a true god, the more annoyed I got. For example in the village where the men are risking their lives to build a ramp for Diana to use as jumping point... Eeeh, didn't we see her basically jump a half a mile towards that tower in the beginning of the film?
By the end its God vs God with lasers and apocalyptic scenery, and I lost interest.
The emotional stakes are still real, but it's a shame that wonder woman is just so very powerful that once you realize that, and the movie adresses it, the internal logic falls completely apart.
I guess that's the problem with making movies about superheroes. All in all I still think they did a fine job for most of the movie.
I also had quite a few laughs, especially the London parts. When the one guy starts speaking French 'I only need a picture of your face as payment' I lost it.
Very good film, not great film but considering the source material very impressive.