• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Worst "He was there all along" Retcons

B

BlindJesus

Member
Ordinaryundone said:
The Forerunners beat the humans in an ancient interstellar war that took decades and killed billions but since they were technical pacifists they decided they couldn't kill us off completely and instead stuck us on Earth and knocked us back to the stone age. Then the Flood showed up and when the Forerunners realized they'd have to sacrifice themselves to save the galaxy they passed on their "mantle of responsibility" to the humans (aka Reclaimers) to take their place once we had gotten back to where we were.

It's duummmmmmmb.
Click to expand...


Iirc, the human-forerunner war was because of the flood, not before. Humans discovered the flood, and in response to there assimilation techniques, the humans expanded like crazy across the Galaxy which the forerunners saw as aggression. Humans kept it a secret during the war, and when the forerunners finally started winning the war, they realized why the humans did what they did.
 
semiconscious

semiconscious

Member
Loz246789 said:
Ok, everyone's talking about ZTD, and... I can kind of see it honestly, although I'd say it wasn't *the* problem with the game that made it unsatisfying.

But y'all are missing the TRUE terrible retcon, that ruins everything that came before it for no reason, in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Dear god.

A recap: until the final portion of the game, you are led to believe that the crossover gang have been transported to an alternative universe, where there's medieval technology, magic, and things generally have a different rule set compared to what people are used to, and a "story teller" who writes the story for what happens in said universe. People die. There's drama, tragedy, the good stuff that makes up good Ace Attorney cases, interspersed with investigationy Layton sections, and because they take the time to set up rules for magic, and it's a crossover in an alternate universe, it's all very believable. Especially since, HAH, how would this even work with a reasonable explanation?

... So I actually can't remember everything because there's just so much bullshit.
But to summarize:
People burned for witch crimes don't actually die. They're instead hypnotized to become slaves to a pharmaceutical company, owned by the story teller.
The story teller writes what he wants to happen with SCIENCEY HYPNOTIC INK, that then convinces the reader to do what's written there with the power of suggestion.
The water in the town contains some SCIENCEY METAL or something, which when ingested, means that if you ring a bell of a different SCIENCEY METAL, anyone who ingests it falls unconscious.
Whenever someone casts a spell, a slave rings a bell to knock everyone unconscious, to set up whatever magic needs to be set up.
Also everyone has been hypnotised to not be able to see a certain shade of black,and have somehow not walked into any giant machines hidden around the town covered in black cloaks. Oh yeah, btw, it's not an alternative universe, this is somewhere in England, and everyone has had their memories erased after agreeing to live in a society with witch hunts for some reason.
ALL OF THIS is because the story teller is a terrible parent, and instead of taking a traumatised child to therapy (long story), he decided blaming it on witches of his own creation was the logical thing to do.

WHY IS THIS A RETCON? The opening STILL doesn't make sense with all this bullshit. Some of the stuff done there couldn't be done, due to being in London instead, where there aren't slaves with bells, or cloaked machines, or all that stuff. They did extra retcons in the free dlc, but it still doesn't make any sense. It would have been so much better to keep the magic, magic. I actually forgot how bad it was until writing this.

EDIT: Whoops, I misread the title a little, this is about a very specific kind of retcon.
...It's still stupid though.
Click to expand...

seriously?! thanks for this! retcon or not, it's the dumbest/craziest thing i've heard all week! :) ...
 
A

Astral

Member
Sephiroth's wing. I don't who's idea it was but Sephiroth didn't have a motherfucking stupid single wing in FFVII. Don't go adding a wing on him in Crisis Core just because someone took the title of his theme too literally.
 
K

Keym

Member
Astral said:
Sephiroth's wing. I don't who's idea it was but Sephiroth didn't have a motherfucking stupid single wing in FFVII. Don't go adding a wing on him in Crisis Core just because someone took the title of his theme too literally.
Click to expand...
It looked cool in Kingdom Hearts!
 
I

Instro

Member
DiipuSurotu said:
SOwmkz1l.jpg

KtR5cGTl.jpg
Click to expand...

That's not a retcon is it? Lucca's letter in CC says that Janus/Magus is watching over Kid, and implies that he is with her already. Basically the plotline ending up not being fully included in the game, but it was always there. The CT DS stuff just fleshes out what we already knew.
 
R

Risk Breaker

Member
I fucking loved Zero Time Dilemma's twist. Sooo good.


It's also definitely not a retcon though, as it makes perfect sense on a replay, and the signs are there all along.
 
Danjin44

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Kingdom Hearts 0.2 Birth By Sleep -A fragmentary passage

Aqua was there when king micky and Riku close door to the Darkness
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Instro said:
That's not a retcon is it? Lucca's letter in CC says that Janus/Magus is watching over Kid, and implies that he is with her already. Basically the plotline ending up not being fully included in the game, but it was always there. The CT DS stuff just fleshes out what we already knew.
Click to expand...

At the time of CC's release, the scenario writer explicitly said they removed Magus from the game so that Guile is not him. The retcon is CT DS showing that it's him after all (although with amnesia).

Lucca's letter was left as is because that was literally Lucca's thoughts when she wrote it. Her thoughts have no bearing on Guile's identity.
 
Bakkus

Bakkus

Member
So, did anyone else see Lion King 3? If the answer is no, then never watch it. I only did because I was a stupid child when it came out. It turns out Timon and Pumba were always around in the beginning before Simba ran away. For example, it was actually they who messed up the entire animal tower at the end of the 'I Just Can't Wait to be King' musical number....
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Not a game but in Fast & Furious 8
Cipher being the big bad behind the scenes during Fast 4, 5, 6 and 7.
Setting up presumably films 9 and potentially 10.

It works because the series rides on being a continuous ridiculous escalation of events but still.
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
Tunesmith said:
Not a game but in Fast & Furious 8
Cipher being the big bad behind the scenes during Fast 4, 5, 6 and 7.
Setting up presumably films 9 and potentially 10.

It works because the series rides on being a continuous ridiculous escalation of events but still.
Click to expand...

It does not work at all. The only thing that could fix it is if
The Elena that was killed in Fast 8 was actually the evil twin sister of the Elena that appeared in fast 5 and the real Elena is fine but slightly bemused by what has happened.
 
T

tommyleelynn

Member
Bakkus said:
So, did anyone else see Lion King 3? If the answer is no, then never watch it. I only did because I was a stupid child when it came out. It turns out Timon and Pumba were always around in the beginning before Simba ran away. For example, it was actually they who messed up the entire animal tower at the end of the 'I Just Can't Wait to be King' musical number....
Click to expand...

Yeah... there wasn't a Lion King 3. There was the Lion King 1½. It worked well for comedic effect.
latest
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Metal Gear Solid is my favorite series of all time...

but the answer is Metal Gear.

Zero, Big Boss, Solidus, Skull Face, Paramedic, The Patriots, The Philosophers, the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Each game kind of retcons the previous one with new information. I don't even care anymore.
 
T

tommyleelynn

Member
jdstorm said:
It does not work at all. The only thing that could fix it is if
The Elena that was killed in Fast 8 was actually the evil twin sister of the Elena that appeared in fast 5 and the real Elena is fine but slightly bemused by what has happened.
Click to expand...

What a train wreck. It would've been better if it were an actual train wreck.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Bakkus said:
So, did anyone else see Lion King 3? If the answer is no, then never watch it. I only did because I was a stupid child when it came out. It turns out Timon and Pumba were always around in the beginning before Simba ran away. For example, it was actually they who messed up the entire animal tower at the end of the 'I Just Can't Wait to be King' musical number....
Click to expand...

I always thought that film wasn't canon.
 
H

How About No

Member
Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus there's an entire city of genetically-modified soldiers underneath Midgar all along, that even the heads of Shinra didn't know about

XxSlasherMcGirkxX said:
That Russian dude Wesker fights in Umbrella Chronicles kept popping up in old games in that version. Really dumb.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah that guy's trash lol

And the Colonel Sanders guy and his stupid Illuminati Family in RE6 WERE BEHIND EVERYTHING OMG
 
L

Lucky Seven

Banned
It may not be the same thing, but Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon and New Mystery of the Fire Emblem on the DS introduced new characters. One of them, I think his name was Frey, was in a prologue added to Shadow Dragon and could be brought to the main story IIRC. However, in the prologue you are given a choice to sacrifice one of the units you have in your party to be left behind and killed.

Thing is, IIRC (it's been years since I played these two games), Frey will come back in New Mystery of the Fire Emblem as the character who was left behind and reveal he was alive the whole time in Shadow Dragon. Not the worst... but lol cmon between that and the player character in FE12 it bothered me.
 
L

Little Nemo

Member
Fuchsdh said:
Really if you're talking about "he was there all along" retcons in BioShock it's Elizabeth in Rapture
Click to expand...

I just finished Burial at Sea last night and came in to say this very same thing. I was hoping Burial at Sea would redeem the ending of Bioshock Infinite and instead it cemented the thought that I kind of don't care about this series anymore. It's sad because I think Infinite was playing with some really cool ideas but they just ended up smashing them all together in the least interesting direction possible. The whole Infinite storyline feels so forced it now has the dubious honor of retroactively diminishing my fond memories of the original game.
 
J

Joeku

Member
Tunesmith said:
Not a game but in Fast & Furious 8
Cipher being the big bad behind the scenes during Fast 4, 5, 6 and 7.
Setting up presumably films 9 and potentially 10.

It works because the series rides on being a continuous ridiculous escalation of events but still.
Click to expand...
It's frustrating similar to Metal Gear bullshit in name and style.
BY2K said:
Ok just for this scene I need to watch this movie, whatever it is.
Click to expand...
Standalone Puss in Boots (from Shrek) movie, and it's far better than it has any right to be.
 
mrmickfran

mrmickfran

Member
Tunesmith said:
Not a game but in Fast & Furious 8
Cipher being the big bad behind the scenes during Fast 4, 5, 6 and 7.
Setting up presumably films 9 and potentially 10.

It works because the series rides on being a continuous ridiculous escalation of events but still.
Click to expand...
While we're on that subject, how about Han's death in Tokyo Drift actually being caused by the Furious 7 villain.
 
P

PataHikari

Banned
Loz246789 said:
Ok, everyone's talking about ZTD, and... I can kind of see it honestly, although I'd say it wasn't *the* problem with the game that made it unsatisfying.

But y'all are missing the TRUE terrible retcon, that ruins everything that came before it for no reason, in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Dear god.
Click to expand...
To be entirely fair, the base plot twist was foreshadowed.

It's just the explanation for said twist is insane. Though it's pretty normal for a Layton game.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
The main thing I keep taking away from this thread is being reminded that they thought that Humpty Dumpty design in Puss in Boots was suitable for a kids film, what a freakish monstrosity.

Should've seen the heel turn coming all along with a look like that
 
G

GoldandBlue

Member
A lot of focus on Genesis but he was one of many people added to the FF7 lore that were "there all along." Let's not forget in Dirge of Cerberus...

1264463987_44.jpg


The Deepground. An entire army underground that nobody knew about until 3 years after FF7 but they were there under Midgar the whole time. You also had the Turks and Avalanche expanded with the Before Crisis games with people who were never seen or mentioned in the original. Although the remake trailer seems to imply the expanded versions of Avalache and the Turks will be put into the game.

j3j9u0I.png
 
L

LastNac

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
People have siblings they don't mention all the time. Maybe they died, or are horrible people, or bring otherwise painful memories into their lives. Marlowe doesn't need to mention Sam because he's presumed dead and never accomplished anything of note while also having a history as a hoodlum, unlike Nate's famous parents. Would anyone care about, say, Obama's brother? He's irrelevant to his story of being president of the United States at one point.

Nate and Sam's parents being famous archaeologists is another story. That most definitely fits this thread.
Click to expand...
The bigger problem I have with Uncharted 4 is Sam.

The issue isn't his existence or his absence, it was the selective amount of times he chose to influence Drake's life. Had there just been the first orphanage scene it would have been fine, but it doesn't make sense for him to keep weaving in and out of Drake's life when convenient, especially with him being absent so much in the years before presumed dead.

I've been wanting to do a thread on it for a while, but the biggest offense is how Sam was retroactively the inspiration for Nathan to take the last name Drake. I loved Nathan Drake's characterization in Uncharted 3, and UC4 did away with all of it.
 
T

timedesk

Neo Member
While not as bad as some of the other examples here, I would vote for Lara's sort of stepmother in Rise of the Tomb Raider. They introduce her after the prologue as having a close relationship with Lara, and had apparently been with her dad for years, but she was never mentioned in the first game. They try to imply that this relationship is significant, but we never really get a chance to see how the characters normally interacted, or what their dynamic is and how it changed due to the events of the first game. We just sort of get a rushed introduction and are then expected to feel something.
 
P

PSqueak

Banned
Bakkus said:
So, did anyone else see Lion King 3? If the answer is no, then never watch it. I only did because I was a stupid child when it came out. It turns out Timon and Pumba were always around in the beginning before Simba ran away. For example, it was actually they who messed up the entire animal tower at the end of the 'I Just Can't Wait to be King' musical number....
Click to expand...

Why do you hate fun?

This movie is hilarious, also it's highly implied that Timon's recollections of the events are not 100% true.
 
M

Maebe

Member
Loz246789 said:
Ok, everyone's talking about ZTD, and... I can kind of see it honestly, although I'd say it wasn't *the* problem with the game that made it unsatisfying.

But y'all are missing the TRUE terrible retcon, that ruins everything that came before it for no reason, in Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney. Dear god.

A recap: until the final portion of the game, you are led to believe that the crossover gang have been transported to an alternative universe, where there's medieval technology, magic, and things generally have a different rule set compared to what people are used to, and a "story teller" who writes the story for what happens in said universe. People die. There's drama, tragedy, the good stuff that makes up good Ace Attorney cases, interspersed with investigationy Layton sections, and because they take the time to set up rules for magic, and it's a crossover in an alternate universe, it's all very believable. Especially since, HAH, how would this even work with a reasonable explanation?

... So I actually can't remember everything because there's just so much bullshit.
But to summarize:
People burned for witch crimes don't actually die. They're instead hypnotized to become slaves to a pharmaceutical company, owned by the story teller.
The story teller writes what he wants to happen with SCIENCEY HYPNOTIC INK, that then convinces the reader to do what's written there with the power of suggestion.
The water in the town contains some SCIENCEY METAL or something, which when ingested, means that if you ring a bell of a different SCIENCEY METAL, anyone who ingests it falls unconscious.
Whenever someone casts a spell, a slave rings a bell to knock everyone unconscious, to set up whatever magic needs to be set up.
Also everyone has been hypnotised to not be able to see a certain shade of black,and have somehow not walked into any giant machines hidden around the town covered in black cloaks. Oh yeah, btw, it's not an alternative universe, this is somewhere in England, and everyone has had their memories erased after agreeing to live in a society with witch hunts for some reason.
ALL OF THIS is because the story teller is a terrible parent, and instead of taking a traumatised child to therapy (long story), he decided blaming it on witches of his own creation was the logical thing to do.

WHY IS THIS A RETCON? The opening STILL doesn't make sense with all this bullshit. Some of the stuff done there couldn't be done, due to being in London instead, where there aren't slaves with bells, or cloaked machines, or all that stuff. They did extra retcons in the free dlc, but it still doesn't make any sense. It would have been so much better to keep the magic, magic. I actually forgot how bad it was until writing this.

EDIT: Whoops, I misread the title a little, this is about a very specific kind of retcon.
...It's still stupid though.
Click to expand...

I thought Shu Takumi would never let me down
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

All 16 original Modern Warfare 2 (2009) maps coming to Modern Warfare 3, Activision has confirmed
News 2
76
5K
Gojiira replied
  • Poll
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III | Review Thread
Analysis Review 32 33 34 35 36
2K
78K
Barakov replied
Modern Warfare 3 download is huge due to “increased amount of content” [200GB]
News Hardware Platform
41
3K
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
[Bloomerg] New ‘Call of Duty’ Draws Harsh Reviews After Rushed Development
News Game Dev 2
69
5K
EDMIX replied
The Call of Duty MW3 multiplayer launch is met with negative Steam reviews and a player count far below that of Modern Warfare 2 at launch
News 2
77
6K
Bernoulli replied
Top Bottom