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[Lister]

I really enjoyed the combat in shadowrun: Dragonfall and Hong kong, might not be the flashiest system out there but it felt great to play.

It was too simplistic for my taste, but then, the story and narrative agency are what those games are all about.

I hope the devs come bakc to shadowrun and that when they do, they apply what they learned with their Battletech game (which I'm also looking forward to!) to the series.

Just give me the same quality CRPG goodness plus some great tacticla combat and man... I will be in heaven.

 

[zenspider]

To add to what has already been covered, Darkest Dungeon and South Park Stick of Truth - looking forward to changes with Fractured But Whole
as well

I don't really subscribe to the notion all that soo many WRPGs have serviceable combat only, I think it's just that some big hitters don't satisfy some people - arguably rightly so at times - Witcher 3's high regard digs into people's craw due to the combat

Are we talking W/J in terms of geography or sub-genre? Because South Park is a Paper Mario-esque take on JRPG combat, and FBW looks like Megaman Battle Network (I haven't looked in depth, mind you).

Conversely, I agree with Dragon's Dogma as an example of well done combat in a WRPG.

I thought Dragon Age Origins combat was goddawful - there might be depth there, but because there's no need to even manage your abilities or party's for 99% of the encounters, I was completely unprepared and lost interest.

 

[The Technomancer]

Divinity Original Sin

 

[Lister]

I thought Dragon Age Origins combat was goddawful - there might be depth there, but because there's no need to even manage your abilities or party's for 99% of the encounters, I was completely unprepared and lost interest.

Did you play on consoles, ro easy?

On the harder difficulties (I played ont he hardest), this is deifnitely NOT the case. There were more trash mobs than I woudl have preferred, but there were also a lot of really good set piece combat in origins.

 

[zenspider]

Did you play on consoles, ro easy?

On the harder difficulties (I played ont he hardest), this is deifnitely NOT the case. There were more trash mobs than I woudl have preferred, but there were also a lot of really good set piece combat in origins.

PS3 on Normal. I think I tried it on Hard but I stil bounced off pretty quickly. Not for me.

 

[emag]

Real-time: Dragon's Dogma
Turn-based: SSI's Gold Box AD&D series

I'm here to add another vote for Temple of Elemental Evil.

The Gold Box games did it better decades earlier. ToEE had a garbage interface compared to, say, Pools of Darkness.

 

[Eidan]

I don't think it really matters that it's japanese, it's still a very western-style RPG

No it's not.

Also, it's comical hearing anyone decry a WRPG for lacking depth, but then praise Dragon's Dogma's combat. DD has responsive controls, and snappy animations. But depth? No.

 

[CrazyArcadia]

Echoing Divinity Original Sin, I also found Transistor to be delightfully well made and fun (also a bit on the shorter side, which adds to the fun IMO since it has some replayability with different tactics and skilling).

Otherwise, Icewind Dale. It's the more combat/dungeon run heavy equivalent to Baldur's Gate, also D&D rules and Infinity Engine. Quite difficult at times but fun to fight and loot around in.

 

[Stiler]

Dragon's Dogma has some of the best combat in an action rpg to date.

Dark Souls of course.

 

[Lister]

PS3 on Normal. I think I tried it on Hard but I stil bounced off pretty quickly. Not for me.

Well Origins combat on PC >>>>>> Origins comabt on consoles. And normal was equivlaent ot easy on PC to boot, so you got a lot less enemies on screen, less intelligent combat ai too.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Are we talking W/J in terms of geography or sub-genre? Because South Park is a Paper Mario-esque take on JRPG combat, and FBW looks like Megaman Battle Network (I haven't looked in depth, mind you).

I guess that's for the op to decide but I don't know how the South Park games are JRPGs, they are western games.

Maybe some definitions from OP or concensus on what constitutes WRPG, JRPG, and CRPG really mean in the context of this thread because it basically renders the op's argument irrelevant if it's not based on east vs west. If South Park is a JRPG, then Dark Souls is WRPG, therefore of course there good examples of WRPG combat

 

[purpleblastoise]

Western games don't usually care about combat or treat it as an afterthought. That is absolutely not the case when it comes to Japanese games like Souls', Monster Hunter, Platinum, Dogma, Ninja Gaiden, DMC etc.

You should just accept that western devs care more about story, graphics and scale.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Western games don't usually care about combat or treat it as an afterthought. That is absolutely not the case when it comes to Japanese games like Souls', Monster Hunter, Platinum, Dogma, Ninja Gaiden, DMC etc.

You should just accept that western devs care more about story, graphics and scale.

That's really not true.
At all

 

[capitalCORN]

The Gold Box games did it better decades earlier. ToEE had a garbage interface compared to, say, Pools of Darkness.

D&D 1.0 >= D&D 3.5? Plus radial menu >= *.

Western games don't usually care about combat or treat it as an afterthought. That is absolutely not the case when it comes to Japanese games like Souls', Monster Hunter, Platinum, Dogma, Ninja Gaiden, DMC etc.

You should just accept that western devs care more about story, graphics and scale.

Spoken like someone who has only played gen 6 efforts.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Darksiders 2?

 

[Toni]

Yes. Just. Yes.

Nah. Still nope.

 

[Durante]

Compared to JRPGs, often times WRPG combat is something to get over with quickly so we can focus on the other things they do better.

I strongly disagree with this part.
Most JRPG combat is forgettable, just like most WRPG combat is.
(E.g. Persona games are sometimes paised for their combat systems, when 95% of your interactions in combat can be scripted in a 15-liner)

Anyway, Divinity: Original Sin has the best turn-based combat in an RPG in my book. Variety, complexity, tactical depth, it excels in all of them.

Pillars of Eternity has a good implementation of RtwP combat (certainly better than any Dragon Age game). Very well thought-out fundamental design, good use of a mixture of Vancian spells and other types of ability resource management.

Wait, wut? There are JRPGs with good combat? Actual recent ones?

The Trails games have pretty good tactical/positional combat, once you make all the drawn out animations skippable.

Well Origins combat on PC >>>>>> Origins comabt on consoles. And normal was equivlaent ot easy on PC to boot, so you got a lot less enemies on screen, less intelligent combat ai too.

And in all DAs after Origins they just put console combat on PC too

 

[bati]

UnderRail. Puts most turn based RPGs to shame.

 

[Corpekata]

Divininty Original Sin and soon enough the sequel.

Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale 2 (1 is pretty solid too).

Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn and some of their forebears.

Currently playing Battle Brothers and Star Crawlers, both have pretty great combat

Dark Messiah is pretty great but falls pretty close to not really being an RPG.

Undertale (though not a very traditionally playing game and also heavily riffing on JRPGs).

Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2

Re: Other people's suggestions

I don't know if I'd really consider Horizon an WRPG. If it counts we might as well count like Far Cry 3.

Disagree flatly on Shadowrun. Their battle systems are fine and that's about it.

Pillars and Tyranny have some highs but are kind of bogged down by poor AI.

Fallout 4 I thought felt pretty great at the start of the game but doesn't hold up long. Maybe on that survival mode or with mods.

 

[JustSomeone]

Almost every WRPG with turn based combat/rtwp
The Diablo series
The gothic series
Morrowind, if you play a magic user

To name a few

 

[PowerThroughLov]

I love the combat in Diablo.

 

[purpleblastoise]

That's really not true.
At all

I'm just taking about action-orientated combat. Only games that come close are DmC and The Surge and that's because they're trying to emulate Japanese games.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Lately? Horizon.

 

[Decado]

The Trails games have pretty good tactical/positional combat, once you make all the drawn out animations skippable.

I had the first one on my wishlist for a while. I eventually took it off since what I was hearing is that the system is pretty good, but the combat isn't due to the absence of any real challenge.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I'm just taking about action-orientated combat. Only games that come close are DmC and The Surge and that's because they're trying to emulate Japanese games.

I'm not sure what you mean by "action orientated combat" to be honest. I'm guessing no isometric which is fair enough but what else?
I mean, if you mention DMC and Platinum's stuff (none of which are RPGs) I might as well mention Max Payne and Doom.

 

[Doc_Drop]

It seems clear there are some who only count open world, western made, action RPGs, made by one of 3 or 4 developers to be WRPGs

Which is a narrow way of looking at it

 

[Nielm]

Mass Effect 2 and 3.

 

[capylikesgames]

I really liked Fallout 4's gunplay compared to other WRPGs, though I only played for about 6 hours so don't hold me to that. To be honest though, I've never enjoyed JRPG combat (unless they're involving, like Mario RPG spinoffs). If I'm not engaged with the characters, I lose interest.

 

[Wulfram]

ME3, MEA
Fallout 4 (It has to be good, because its basically the entire game)
BG2

DAI's got the best RTwP combat in recent years, though its still not all that great. The main problem is that people got the idea somewhere that Warriors shouldn't be boring, yet enjoyable RTwP combat relies on some characters not needing too much oversight.

I'm going to mention XCOM, even if its not generally classed as an RPG.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

Baldur's Gate Saga
Jagged Alliance 2
Might & Magic Series
Wizardry Series
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Divinity
Wasteland 2
Pillars of Eternity

Come to mind.

 

[emag]

D&D 1.0 >= D&D 3.5? Plus radial menu >= *.

Keyboard shortcuts > mouse menus

 

[NullPointer]

Does Darksiders/Darksiders 2 count?

Darksiders 2 especially, with its open world, diablo-esque loot, ng+, wonderfully designed dungeons and in depth melee combat and combo system. Also stellar voice work and world building and a perfectly realized art style.

DS2 is worth it alone for my two favorite mechanics - living weapons (that you sacrifice other loot to to level them up and customize their bonuses) and the insta-horse buttons.

DS1+DS2 remasters with all DLC is now on sale too. Just picked up the bundle on the PS4 this weekend for $20. Couldn't be happier. I bought it for the combat, and everything else is just great icing on the cake.

 

[capitalCORN]

Keyboard shortcuts > mouse menus

As a proponent of Vi, I agree. But in the context of a game, I disagree.

 

[Weltall Zero]

This thread served to finally dispel some misconceptions I had, namely:
Divinity is not the same game as Divinity: Original Sin.
Divinity 2 is not the same as Divinity: Original Sin 2.
Divinity: Original Sin is in fact a more recent game than Divinity 2.

This is some Xenoblade levels of non-straightforward naming, but at least I have it all figured out now, yay!

It's also interesting that they went from action RPGs to turn-based RPGs, i.e. the opposite of Final Fantasy.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

I also came in here to say Dragon's Dogma. One of the best action RPGs I've ever played. GAF did not let me down with that recommendation.

Diablo III is the best game of its type (not sure what that genre of RPG is called) that I've played.

I've recently been playing Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes and it has a really neat combat system. It's a turn-based strategy RPG with tile-matching mechanics.

And this is a bit of a stretch, but I had a ton of fun playing a mage/vampire character in a heavily-modded Skyrim. You absolutely need mods though, because vanilla Skyrim's combat is ass (still better than The Witcher 3 though).

There is nothing wrong with Witcher 3's combat. It works how it's supposed to.

JRPGs are usually just more flashy, with a more varied scope of movement (aerial combat, high jumps, ect)

There is definitely something wrong with TW3's combat. Mainly that it gets stale very quickly and the controls are wonky. It just isn't that good.

In action combat, The Witcher 3. Good mix of Batman and Dark souls styles with their own twist. Very good enemy variety, too.

SoulsBorne games are on a completely different level when it comes to combat. TW3 doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dark Souls.

The Witcher 3 on harder difficulties.

Ripostes, Signs, combat trees. It's far better than this forum will lead you to believe.

I played TW3 on hard difficulty. It didn't make it better at all. It's a perfect example of "bad" difficulty - it doesn't make the combat more engaging, it just makes it more annoying.

 

[CopperPuppy]

SMH at the Horizon mentions. Good combat? Absolutely.

But it's as much of an RPG as Assassin's Creed or Far Cry is, in that they use nearly identical level and skill progression systems. Would you call AC Syndicate or Far Cry 4 RPGs? If not, then you can't call Horizon one either.

 

[epmode]

I've recently been playing Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes and it has a really neat combat system. It's a turn-based strategy RPG with tile-matching mechanics

I adore this game. Good call.

Give me a sequel or a spiritual sequel pls.

 

[dlauv]

I would call Dragon's Dogma a WRPG more than a JRPG, to be perfectly honest.

And as such, it is the best WRPG for combat from my standpoint.

If you're going this route, then the genre would be ARPG instead of WRPG, which would be more like a consolized CRPG. The term WRPG is even more muddled than JRPG at this point.

In respect to the topic, probably Divinity: Original Sin. If you meant ARPG combat from westerners: Mankind Divided; Mass Effect 2, 3, And; Fallout 4. We tend to do guns right. Diablo III also tickles the lizard brain.

 

[Spoit]

SMH at the Horizon mentions. Good combat? Absolutely.

But it's as much of an RPG as Assassin's Creed or Far Cry is, in that they use nearly identical level and skill progression systems. Would you call AC Syndicate or Far Cry 4 RPGs? If not, then you can't call Horizon one either.

I mean, people are also calling things like DMC or Platinum games RPGs here too. Which makes absolutely no sense

 

[Philtastic]

A lot of good games listed already, so I'm going to support the less popular opinion that The Witcher 3 has my favourite combat system of any WRPG. The way I play it, enemies often don't even get to attack and go down very quickly. From what I've seen, a lot of people who find the combat annoying don't use all of their abilities and often try to play it purely like a sword game, which would be a very annoying way to play since enemies dodge and block your attacks or interrupt you. By using bombs and signs to crowd control, stun, and interrupt enemies; potions to regen stamina, avoid interruption, and buff signs; and parry/riposte to both block attacks and get free sword swings in if you time it right, you avoid the annoying way of playing where you constantly dodge attacks and only occasionally get a few of your own swings in.

 

[enixbelmont]

I really don't agree with Dragon's Dogma being a WRPG in any way other than art style and open world. It's just as much of a WRPG as FF15. I'd actually say FF15 is more western in design.

 

[Shake Appeal]

It's funny, because the only JRPGs I can really get into are the ones that offer more than boring, rote, grinding combat against dumb trash mobs followed by boring, rote, grinding boss fights against HP sinks.

Different definitions of "good combat," I guess.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Mount & Blade: Warband

 

[Durante]

I had the first one on my wishlist for a while. I eventually took it off since what I was hearing is that the system is pretty good, but the combat isn't due to the absence of any real challenge.

I can only assume whoever said that wasn't playing on hard. I do, and I find the games pretty challenging.

In fact, in Trails in the Sky 2nd, I had to retry some boss battles quite a few times before I found a strategy that worked -- and I don't think I'm bad at positional RPG combat

 

[Lister]

And in all DAs after Origins they just put console combat on PC too

Don't remind me.

 

[Puruzi]

is such a thing even possible

 

[Bl@de]

Wizardry 8, Gothic 2, Divinity: Original Sin, Enderal

 

[Psychoward]

I know some of these are controversial but here goes

Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age: Inquisition (to a lesser extent)
Mass Effect 1 (pretty bad shooting and cover but maxed out biotics is hilarious)
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Divinity: Original Sin
Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Shadowrun: Hong Kong
Borderlands 2
Borderlands The Pre-Sequel
XCOM: Enemy Unknown/Within if it counts, kinda an SRPG
Diablo 3 has the best combat out of any typical loot RPG
Soulsborne series and Dragon's Dogma are JRPGs with a WRPG mindset, some of the best combat out there
Fallout 4 (not a lot of options as something like 1, 2 or NV but the shooting is better than it has any right to be coming off of 3)
Fallout: New Vegas has bad moment to moment combat but the wealth of options and VATS meant I enjoyed it more than most
Skyrim (yeah I know, it gets a lot of hate but on release it was basically Bioshock 2 with more loadouts and an open world)

 

[Van Bur3n]

is such a thing even possible

Pull the weeb out beneath your eyes and you shall be enlightened, my dude.

 

[Psychoward]

I adore HR and MD but the combat in both is garbage. If we're talking overall level design + stealth then maybe you could convince me I suppose.