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WRPGs with good combat?
- Thread starter Renekton
- Start date
I can only assume whoever said that wasn't playing on hard. I do, and I find the games pretty challenging.
In fact, in Trails in the Sky 2nd, I had to retry some boss battles quite a few times before I found a strategy that worked -- and I don't think I'm bad at positional RPG combat
Just out of curiosity, do you have retry offset (makes battles easier when you retry them) off? I'm almost done with TitS 1 Hard mode, and I gave in and turned it on in chapter 3. There were a few ridiculous bosses where you had multiple enemies moving twice for every one turn of yours, hitting for > 1/2 your characters' health each time. I honestly don't know how a couple of those would be possible without some insane grinding or just hours of save-scumming.
But yeah, oh hard mode TiTS is def not mindlessly easy. Unfortunately it isn't well balanced either, but retry offset means you'll never actually get stuck if you don't want to.
Are you asking for western style RPGs, RPGs made in the west or a combination of both?
Either way, Darkest Dungeon is an indie turn based RPG with great, challenging combat and a fantastic art style to boot.
Also this thread definitely convinced me to try Divinity OS haha.
Lol.
Either way, Darkest Dungeon is an indie turn based RPG with great, challenging combat and a fantastic art style to boot.
Also this thread definitely convinced me to try Divinity OS haha.
Lol.
Dr.Sanchez
Neo Member
Underrail is a great game. Really fun playing a character specializing in knives, stealth, and traps(traps were a necessity for me).
IcyRhythms
Member
I think it's exactly the opposite and one of the biggest reasons I enjoy WRPG's more these days. The combat in most JRPG's is terrible. lol
Crazy to say, as there used to be a time where I wouldn't even buy most games if they weren't Japanese developed.
Crazy to say, as there used to be a time where I wouldn't even buy most games if they weren't Japanese developed.
Sumio Mondo
Member
XCOM
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
And...errrmmm...hmmm.
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
And...errrmmm...hmmm.
dragonzdogma
Member
mortal kombat shoulin monks
Such as? Certainly not music, art direction, or innovative settings? I guess they have more dialogue choices (some that even do more than slightly change the dialogue at a few scenes) and larger worlds if that's your bag.
Anyways, since I like bullet hell I liked Undertale's combat, especially how varied it got and how it frequently played with your expectations. Mass Effect 2 and 3 were mechanically solid but most encounters were repetitive.
I'll give you innovative settings, but on the music and art direction front that's going to be entirely down to specific tastes and can be divisive either way you look at it
Diablo 3.
First post nails it!
The bolded I have played and I agree with. Divinity I agree with even without playing it.
These are both good too.
First post nails it!
The bolded I have played and I agree with. Divinity I agree with even without playing it.
These are both good too.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Of course GAF could simply list from among the many perfectly understandable examples like Temple of Elemantal Evil, etc, but instead the way to go is to list every game that is debatable even whether they are rpgs to begin with.
Psychoward
Banned
The combat doesn't hold up very well at all imo
Also the combat was the worst part of banner saga 1 by a long shot. Extremely simple, extremely repetitive, extremely common. Couldn't even finish the game.
Branching paths and attributes that do more than offer a stat boosts. For example intelligence can open up new ways to complete a quest, not to mention stats like charisma, perception and leadership. Which leads to another strenght, multiple ways to complete quests and the game. You can personalize your character and actually roleplay better. In the case of Deus Ex it also brings excellent level design. And WRPG:s can stand toe to toe with JRPG:s in music and art direction atleast. Maybe not the settings, there are exceptions though like Planescape. And not sure if Cyberpunk is something often seen in JRPG:s?
Edit: Oooh and writing for sure. But to be fair, something might be lost in translation from japanese to english.
I mean, to be fair, it's comparing it to stuff that has even less in common with jrpgs, than those do to wrpgs
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Gonna echo the Kingdoms of Amalur suggestions, shame the studio went under.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
Yeah... Fallout 4 being a better shooter than Fallout 3 doesn't make it an actually good shooter. I've never understood the enthusiasm for its combat, at all
I like the Divinity: OS answer. The Baldur's Gate trilogy had good combat, but it kind of breaks down by Throne of Baal because it feels like you are spending minutes to buff before most fight.
The combat in Planescape: Torment is good to ignore, one of the few games where I prefer playing on Easy.
It's very light on number-crunching RPG elements, but I still play Horizon just to mess with the combat.
I think the combat in Arcanum is horrible too, TC. That game is all about the world building IMO.
I love combat in the first two Fallout games.
The old Might & Magic games had good combat, as did some of the Heroes of M&M titles
Just for shits and giggles there are a lot of similarities between TW3's combat and HZD. For starters you can set traps in both games. Both use magic/magic arrows to target enemy weaknesses. You can create potions and craft in both. You can control enemies. TW3 offers a plethora of other traditional RPG max min builds. Also TW3 has better melee combat. At first glance the two games could not be anymore different but there are a lot of similarities in the underlying combat system.
Shake Appeal
Member
I'm gonna go ahead and name the Civ and Total War series too along with that XCOM.
Shake Appeal
Member
Guys, Civilization is not an WRPG, just like Ninja Gaiden (mentioned above) is not a JRPG.
I'm pretty flexible with my genre definitions, but c'mon.
I'm pretty flexible with my genre definitions, but c'mon.
Mr. Phellps
Member
Standouts are probably Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda, Diablo 3 and Divinity: Original Sin.
Both in terms of gameplay mechanics and fun, these are great.
Both in terms of gameplay mechanics and fun, these are great.
LectureMaster
Member
Well, I don't know if MMO counts. But I really loved Guide Wars 2' combat.
The pvp in that game was amazing too.
The pvp in that game was amazing too.
The Witcher 2.
Combat was challenging, but not impossibly difficult. The stat system and gear give you a tangible feeling of progression. The branching story makes you feel like your chaoices in the game have an impact.
For a game where you might want more emphasis on dialogue and skill checks rather than combat, maybe Alpha Protocol or Torment: Tides of Numenera would be preferable?
Edit: and for you masochists out there, you can always try Age of Decadence.
Combat was challenging, but not impossibly difficult. The stat system and gear give you a tangible feeling of progression. The branching story makes you feel like your chaoices in the game have an impact.
For a game where you might want more emphasis on dialogue and skill checks rather than combat, maybe Alpha Protocol or Torment: Tides of Numenera would be preferable?
Edit: and for you masochists out there, you can always try Age of Decadence.
You mean KotOR? Part of my love for it's combat was the A.I. found it to be extremely difficult and smart, I often had to switch tactics, the live pause was a first for me at the time. When you become full on Master Jedi you start tap dancing on fools you feel like you really earned it. The pay off is immense.
Also, knowing I could cut down overly confident groups but held back to be the 'good' Jedi was part of its brilliance, real consequences of embracing the dark, the temptation to show those I'm inconvenienced by who's boss - my hand just itching to turn on my saber but trying to remain composed was just so wonderfully executed, I loved all of it.
You might be the first person I've encountered who prefers 1 over 2 and 3.
Personally, I think 2 is the best and 1 is pretty dreadful.
I've yet to play a WRPG with "good" combat. I have played WRPGs with fun combat. I mean, I love VATS in the Fallout games and I'll take TW3 combat over TES any day. But none of those games approach games like Bloodborne.
Wtf?
Those are pure strategy games.
Oh my god, guys... Read the post I'm quoting.
The X-Com games have a lot of shared DNA with the SRPG genre, while Civ and Total War... don't.
Skyball Paint
Member
Fallout 1+2, no other series offers so many ways to utterly destroy some poor bastard's balls.
hydrophilic attack
Member
overwatch has a pretty good battle system
The problem is the most famous ones are on consoles where real-time action combat is more popular. Japanese developers have always been better at real-time melee combat.
For the best WRPG combat you're going to have to look at games that are willing to be turn-based or at least real-time command-based systems where you pause.
For the best WRPG combat you're going to have to look at games that are willing to be turn-based or at least real-time command-based systems where you pause.
Which is exactly the conflation I'm talking about! If you said JRPG, most people would think FF-style Turn based combat, not DMC or whatever else people are using here.
In Civ you move units on a grid every turn. They gain experience with every combat, level up and earn new skills. Like I said, if XCOM is now an RPG then Civ is too.
18 posts to get there, but the thread ended here
really though, the problem with wrpgs is an insistence on real-time systems when western action games have historically been absolute butt
The ones I think of off the top of my head, and in no particular order:
Divinity: Original Sin
Dragon Age series
Fallout VATS system
Wasteland 2
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Kingdoms of Amalur
I love The Witcher 3, but it certainly ain't because of the combat.
I also want to note that I played all of the above on consoles, so I can't speak for the PC experience. Out of that list, I think Horizon was the most fun to play, followed closely by Kingdoms of Amalur. I wish that Amalur could have gotten ported to PS4/ONE/PC/Switch, etc.
Divinity: Original Sin
Dragon Age series
Fallout VATS system
Wasteland 2
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Kingdoms of Amalur
I love The Witcher 3, but it certainly ain't because of the combat.
I also want to note that I played all of the above on consoles, so I can't speak for the PC experience. Out of that list, I think Horizon was the most fun to play, followed closely by Kingdoms of Amalur. I wish that Amalur could have gotten ported to PS4/ONE/PC/Switch, etc.
I definitely think that non-VATS combat was legit improved over 3 and New Vegas. I didn't use VATs nearly as much in 4 as I did in those two.
I'd disagree with that pretty strongly. There's tons of build options, which is fun to experiment with, but actually engaging in combat is not itself that interesting.
And then there's those fights against a pack of 10+ dogs and you spend 30 minutes just waiting for them to finish goddamn moving. *shudder*
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Witcher 3 has good combat?
Diablo 3 and The Surge are RPGs?
LOL.
Uh. Whatever you say, GAF
Diablo 3 and The Surge are RPGs?
LOL.
Uh. Whatever you say, GAF
hydrophilic attack
Member
I've heard good things about Cosmic Star Heroine
HappyPuppy
Member
I really really enjoyed the combat in Nox, it has 3 classes, has a lot of interesting abilities, cool casting sounds, old game and pretty cheap.
I also enjoyed Guild Wars, it's like a co-op RPG, the real fun part of the combat is making your build and testing it against the environment. You could really make a lot of fun and creative builds.
I also enjoyed Guild Wars, it's like a co-op RPG, the real fun part of the combat is making your build and testing it against the environment. You could really make a lot of fun and creative builds.
It's excellent, though I'd classify it as a JRPG despite it being developed in the west.