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[ElTorro]

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

Yes, and the PS4 has more than double the yields per wafer as XB1, instead.

What a deal!

 

[ChorusLindarr]

So the overall bandwith to the GPU is higher than just the 102 gb/s from the Esram.

Overall, provided no downclock, the maximum theoretical bandwidth to the XB1 GPU is 170GB/s (I.e. 102GB/s eSRAM + 68GB/s DDR3). That is, the GPU can read that amount as a maximum from the two separate memory pools.

On the other hand, one memory is so small (32MB) that you simply cannot fit every bit of your data in it. And thus you will almost never be exempt from having to read from main memory at a bandwidth of 68GB/s max.

The 192GB/s number specialguy quoted is an unsubstantiated figure from the recent Eurogamer article, which assumes a read and write operation occurring simultaneously. It's incredibly disingenuous to quote this figure as the maximum bandwidth the GPU would see, as the GPU would only be able to read or write from eSRAM at any given time.

 

[FINALBOSS]

No surprise that Senjutsu and Rangers haven't come back to back up their ridiculous claims in this thread.


Why are people allowed to spread that kind of misinformation and flat out lies here? Especially in severely dedicated tech threads?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I'm assuming they have already done this to an extent,but that is why Sony needs to add some members to its tech team in order to get first and third party studios up to speed faster. They really need to make an investment there and get their internal staff on par with Microsoft.

It sounds like that's the whole philosophy they're going for, but until we see final (and comparable) games across platforms, we won't know for sure. Nothing shown so far has particularly stood out from amongst the crowd, though Killzone: Shadow Fall at its best (wide open vistas) is probably the best looking thing I've seen so far.

 

[bobbytkc]

Yes, and the PS4 has more than double the yields per wafer as XB1, instead.

What a deal!

May as well just give the Xbone 1 flop then. The bandwidth per flop will be off the charts!

 

[Durante]

And you think that consoles have some inactive CUs in there for hardware redundancy? That's... well, I don't know what that it, but it's not based in reality.

Actually, that's not particularly far-fetched. Of course, those CUs would be inactive for a reason (ie. fault tolerance), and could never be used.

The Xbox One is what it is. It's not getting a major hardware bump. Any fundamental hardware changes would have to have been set in stone at the end of last year to make a holiday 2013 launch a possibility.

This is true.

You have great tech knowledge

He doesn't really, he mostly regurgiates PR arguments.

Calm down, warrior. I'm getting both consoles so i don't have to "deal with" shit. Frankly i haven't seen anything that look substantially worse than what was shown on the PS4 at E3.

TheD is not a console warrior, he just doesn't sugarcoat.

The 192GB/s number specialguy quoted is an unsubstantiated figure from the recent Eurogamer article, which assumes a read and write operation occurring simultaneously. It's incredibly disingenuous to quote this figure as the maximum bandwidth the GPU would see, as the GPU would only be able to read or write from eSRAM at any given time.

Actually, the idea of that unsubstantiated article is that it can read and write in an overlapping manner that allows it to reach that theoretical BW. Of course, this was only possible for something like FP16 blending IIRC, which isn't really a sustained, meaningful number.

 

[AgentP]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

Don't forget the XB1 APU upclock you are peddling at B3D. Maybe you can throw another APU in into the equation to for Reiko?

 

[artist]

I appreciate those who understand the point I was trying to get across. It’s always hard, after sitting doing interviews all day, and you’re trying to have an engaging conversation with someone, and words get pulled out our the tone what you’re trying to say didn’t come out how you meant it.

You should also understand this interview was done after our launch event, and prior to E3. So please take that into consideration.

I’m not diminishing Sony’s performance claims and I wasn’t trying to be arrogant or dismissive. What I was trying to say is – I’m not Sony’s engineering team. So I can’t comment on what they have published as specs. I know what our teams are doing, and I know how they thought about architecting the system. The guys who are building these machines (on both sides) are unbelievably talented and experts in their field. Nobody knows the specifics of how the machines are architected or if there may be bottlenecks in one system or accelerators in another that change the impact of the published specs.

What I believe is that our games are going to be great and they are going to look next-gen, and I *think* E3 sort of showed that. And great games are what matters. And while you guys joke about the cloud stuff, I think the stuff the Respawn guys have said starts to clear up what we’ve been talking about with cloud performance (cue the “have you seen Titanfall” meme)

Games on both systems looked awesome. I was there, and while I know RISE took a hit on the gameplay that was shown, I thought it was the most next-gen looking game I saw on either platform. Of course, I get I’m biased and I didn’t have time to see everything.

As always, I love taking the hits. And I appreciate that while the words I used may were probably worth some scrutiny, I do appreciate that some of you got what I was trying to say.

(BTW the picture in that article is not me, but it is my good looking friend Kevin who works in Marketing)

Hi Albert, welcome to GAF and I hope you can stick around and bring some highly needed transparency to the Xbox group.

Any plans on when we will get the complete specs of the system?

Given the rumored specs for both systems, can anyone conceive of a circumstance or decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears “weaker” could actually be more powerful?

I cant think of a single instance where the Xbox pulls ahead of PS4 here, sorry. You can intentionally slant a benchmark (killing the CPU) where the best you can get is parity between both systems.

 

[benny_a]

Why are people allowed to spread that kind of misinformation and flat out lies here? Especially in severely dedicated tech threads?

Is it a lie? It just seems to me based on his B3D profile that he tries his wacky theories on B3D in less crazy form. They get either ignored or countered with that eSRAM is not special sauce, it's a cost saving measurement.

And then he goes on GAF and tries the same shtick just with craziness turned up to 11.

Given that GAF slants less technical than the same kind of threads on B3D it's bound to be taken as misinformation though, as Durante, badb0y and others that can tell who is bullshitting aren't always around.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Is it a lie? It just seems to me based on his B3D profile that he tries his wacky theories on B3D in less crazy form. They get either ignored or countered with that eSRAM is not special sauce, it's a cost saving measurement.

And then he goes on GAF and tries the same shtick just with craziness turned up to 11.

Given that GAF slants less technical than the same kind of threads on B3D it's bound to be taken as misinformation though, as Durante, badb0y and others that can tell who is bullshitting aren't always around.

I'm severely out of my element in all this stuff.

It's just really disingenuous to do this kind of shit and I really don't see the rationale behind it--like Senjutsu spouting the latency nonsense. What's the benefit in this for them?

I dunno.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Xbox product planning boss Albert Penello feels that hardware analysis is “meaningless” because it’s all about the games.

Well, in that case you're not going to look so good either, unless you start buying games from third parties.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

Congrats, your post has been quoted outside of NeoGAF

 

[benny_a]

What's the benefit in this for them?

I don't know. It's straight up FUD-spreading. No idea to what effect, as it doesn't change the actual technical reality. The only thing they do is con some people that truly only care about third party games and don't want to buy a PC to buy the wrong console.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I do want to remind people – this interview was done six weeks ago, before E3. It’s not like we just decided to talk about it. So it wasn't that I just decided to call up OXM and give the my opinion

I would like to pose this question to the audience. There are several months until the consoles launch, and any student of the industry will remember, specs change.

Given the rumored specs for both systems, can anyone conceive of a circumstance or decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears “weaker” could actually be more powerful?

I believe the debate on this could give some light to why we don’t want to engage in a specification debate until both boxes are final and shipping.

First: thanks for joining the discussion here.
Regarding the bolded: are you implying that Xbox One's or PS4's specs still might change? If yes, in which regards? And can you comment on the rumor that The GPU in Xbox One is downclocked to 750MHZ?

Nope, not implying that. I'm asking if people could conceive of a circumstance where the published specs might not tell the whole story on performance. I'm not talking about the cloud, either.

Actually, you were implying that.

Going by your words i'd guess you're trying to say the PS4 specs will be downgraded just like the PS3's was?

 

[FINALBOSS]

Actually, you were implying that.

Going by your words i'd guess you're trying to say the PS4 specs will be downgraded just like the PS3's was?

Unbelievable lol

 

[lastflowers]

Actually, you were implying that.

Going by your words i'd guess you're trying to say the PS4 specs will be downgraded just like the PS3's was?

I think he's implying that the hardware decisions made by sony don't actually make that box drastically better for gaming like the interwebs believe. Whether or not that is actually the case is a different story.

 

[benny_a]

I think he's implying that the hardware decisions made by sony don't actually make that box drastically better for gaming like the interwebs believe. Whether or not that is actually the case is a different story.

I don't read it that way.

He is talking about the future when saying '[...] decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears “weaker” could actually be more powerful?'

It's just special sauce.

 

[Cidd]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

You're beyond helping..

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

I don't read it that way.

He is talking about the future when saying '[...] decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears “weaker” could actually be more powerful?'

It's just special sauce.

Oh yeah. The sauce.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/28/directx-11-2/1

 

[Manmademan]

I think he's implying that the hardware decisions made by sony don't actually make that box drastically better for gaming like the interwebs believe. Whether or not that is actually the case is a different story.

except they absolutely do, given that those decisions result in a box that's more powerful, easier for devs to program (thanks to not having to pull tricks with ESRAM), and cheaper for end users to buy.

you could say "well, it's all about the games" but Sony has heavily invested in first party studios and has a ton of talented teams and exclusive IP. In terms of quality they're easily on Nintendo's level, and better than Ninty in volume and genre variety. Microsoft isn't quite there yet. Outside of Halo and Fable, there's no real first party investment.

Microsofts hardware decisions have resulted in a system that's an excellent media box and should integrate well with cable TV, but these things are at the expense of gaming, clearly.

 

[Albert Penello]

I can try and provide as much clarity as I can on things I’ve said. I’ve posed in a couple other threads that I don’t like to speak for other people in the org.

@artist - I don’t know when the final specs will be released, or I would share. I honestly don’t know the plan there.

Just to restate my response earlier – if you read the article, the point I was trying (poorly) to make is that until both consoles are actually done and shipping, and people can pull them apart and see what’s inside, nobody knows the truth. There are some SUPER smart folks here in these forums and I’m continually impressed by the technical ability of some of the members here. When I said “people don’t know what they are talking about” – it was in reference to the fact that the guys actually building the boxes are the only ones who know all the facts. It was never a commentary on the technical aptitude of the community.

Just like the debate between 360 and PS3, both systems will be *extremely* capable.

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Again, thanks to those who read the article and my follow-up and commented. It’s going to be an interesting few months before launch.

 

[Mastperf]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

Why do you want to get banned again? You know you're posting BS but do it anyway.

 

[I2amza]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

What is this....I don't even know where to start....

 

[Manmademan]

I can try and provide as much clarity as I can on things I’ve said. I’ve posed in a couple other threads that I don’t like to speak for other people in the org.

@artist - I don’t know when the final specs will be released, or I would share. I honestly don’t know the plan there.

Just to restate my response earlier – if you read the article, the point I was trying (poorly) to make is that until both consoles are actually done and shipping, and people can pull them apart and see what’s inside, nobody knows the truth. There are some SUPER smart folks here in these forums and I’m continually impressed by the technical ability of some of the members here. When I said “people don’t know what they are talking about” – it was in reference to the fact that the guys actually building the boxes are the only ones who know all the facts. It was never a commentary on the technical aptitude of the community.

Just like the debate between 360 and PS3, both systems will be *extremely* capable.

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Again, thanks to those who read the article and my follow-up and commented. It’s going to be an interesting few months before launch.

Thanks for the input. Great to have you here and look forward to further discussion.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think it's really neat Albert came in here and defended his comments. He seems like a cool guy.

(Psst Albert what do you think of the name 'Xbone'? Secretly, do you guys find it kind of funny?)

 

[ypo]

Is this a joke? The PS4 specs is pretty much an open book. Is this the new damage control? Where're the official Xbone specs? I mean this is the same company paraded around a video scaler chip to the press prior to X360 release. Don't talk about them until they're released?

 

[Freki]

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Your LinkedIn profile states:
Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research

Oversee all Hardware, Accessories and Experiences planning for Xbox and Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Division. Also owns User Research and Competitive Strategy and Trends for the IEB Division.
Manages a team of 40 Product Planners, Researchers and Competitive Specialists across a range of Microsoft businesses.
Responsible for identifying customer needs and market and technology trends, for defining business opportunities and generating scenarios that enable the development of high-value products and services, and for partnering with Engineering and Marketing teams.

as well as
Director Of Marketing

Owned Platform Hardware, Accessories, and Third Party Marketing for Xbox. Drove marketing plans for all global Platform initiatives from the original Xbox console, Xbox 360, and Kinect. Managed the product roadmap and console bundles, SKU management, and Special Edition strategy for all Console HW and Accessories.

How can you be "Director of Marketing" but not work in PR?

 

[Darth Tigris]

I can try and provide as much clarity as I can on things I’ve said. I’ve posed in a couple other threads that I don’t like to speak for other people in the org.

@artist - I don’t know when the final specs will be released, or I would share. I honestly don’t know the plan there.

Just to restate my response earlier – if you read the article, the point I was trying (poorly) to make is that until both consoles are actually done and shipping, and people can pull them apart and see what’s inside, nobody knows the truth. There are some SUPER smart folks here in these forums and I’m continually impressed by the technical ability of some of the members here. When I said “people don’t know what they are talking about” – it was in reference to the fact that the guys actually building the boxes are the only ones who know all the facts. It was never a commentary on the technical aptitude of the community.

Just like the debate between 360 and PS3, both systems will be *extremely* capable.

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Again, thanks to those who read the article and my follow-up and commented. It’s going to be an interesting few months before launch.

Thanks for all of this. Seriously. You're awesome for this.

 

[ypo]

Your LinkedIn profile states:

Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research
as well as
Director Of Marketing

Heh.

 

[krypt0nian]

Once we have both spec sheets, they can and will be compared just like every gen, and it's only meaningless if you don't care about such things.

The way the spread looks it won't be meaningless in games either. Like 360 was the home for multiplat superiority, so will the PS4 be this gen, but perhaps even more so.

 

[FINALBOSS]

I can try and provide as much clarity as I can on things I’ve said. I’ve posed in a couple other threads that I don’t like to speak for other people in the org.

@artist - I don’t know when the final specs will be released, or I would share. I honestly don’t know the plan there.

Just to restate my response earlier – if you read the article, the point I was trying (poorly) to make is that until both consoles are actually done and shipping, and people can pull them apart and see what’s inside, nobody knows the truth. There are some SUPER smart folks here in these forums and I’m continually impressed by the technical ability of some of the members here. When I said “people don’t know what they are talking about” – it was in reference to the fact that the guys actually building the boxes are the only ones who know all the facts. It was never a commentary on the technical aptitude of the community.

Just like the debate between 360 and PS3, both systems will be *extremely* capable.

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Again, thanks to those who read the article and my follow-up and commented. It’s going to be an interesting few months before launch.

You guys bragged last gen about the specs, and now this gen it's "all about the games". Your PR department is trying to spin the weaker console into something else and you won't be reveal the specs ANY time soon. Just continue to muddy the waters like the Digital Foundry report.

Laughable.


EDIT: And Director of Marketing. Laughable x 2.

 

[SniperHunter]

Once we have both spec sheets, they can and will be compared just like every gen, and it's only meaningless if you don't care about such things.

The way the spread looks it won't be meaningless in games either.

MS will never release the spec sheet.

 

[Can Crusher]

So if the ESRAM BW is now 192 GB/s, at times XB1 has 260 GB/s BW feeding 1.2 TF.

When you compare that to 176 GB/s feeding 1.8 TF, the XB1 can have more than double the bandwidth per flop as PS4...

XB1=260 GB/s/1.2 teraflops= 216 GB/s/TF

PS4=176/1.8=98 GB/s/TF

 

[krypt0nian]

MS will never release the spec sheet.

Then they admit the lesser machine by forfeit, and the gap between them left up to conjecture and console fanboys. Up to them really.

 

[benny_a]

Just continue to muddy the waters like the Digital Foundry report.

According to (((interference))) that is not some PR spin but "The original source is a small briefing update sent to devs by MS which was forwarded onto him (and confirmed by another source of his)."
Him being Richard Leadbetter.

The article was poor but not everything is a giant conspiracy.

It sucks we don't have a spec sheet but the reality is that Microsoft has nothing to gain by releasing one. They have the weaker specs.

 

[Cidd]

MS Director Of Marketing in this thread doesn't look suspicious at all...

 

[Freki]

MS Director Of Marketing in this thread doesn't look suspicious at all...

Don't worry - the Director Of Marketing doesn't work in PR:

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Then they admit the lesser machine by forfeit, and the gap between them left up to conjecture and console fanboys. Up to them really.

Of course, this nintendo mindset "forget about specs, we're all about the games" could only mean one thing. Guess we know what system will be that much more future proof. They didn't even mentioned what type of ram they were using until later discovered about anandtech.

 

[ypo]

First lesson in Marketing 101 should be "Don't ever lie on the Internet."

 

[avaya]

How is specialguy not banned? Clearly he has been posting under alts, last one being Tyrone.

 

[Mastperf]

I'm no fan of PR but I can respect anyone willing to come here and talk to us directly.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I'm no fan of PR but I can respect anyone willing to come here and talk to us directly.

See that's always a good thing to come down to the consumers and be transparent but when you say that you are in Engineering and then this pops up:

Your LinkedIn profile states:
Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research

as well as
Director Of Marketing


How can you be "Director of Marketing" but not work in PR?

Then you have to take everything a person says with a large grain of salt. Inversely, we would be looking at this the same way if it was Sony in the same position. Case in point, sending in PR to clean up on one of the world's largest gaming forums looks shady as fuck.

 

[FINALBOSS]

I'm no fan of PR but I can respect anyone willing to come here and talk to us directly.

We all do.

But being disingenuous about everything really makes it all salty.

 

[ypo]

More like lying to you directly.

 

[Monumental]

Well, in that case you're not going to look so good either, unless you start buying games from third parties.

Enh no worries, they're already looking much better.

 

[Fistwell]

This slow-mo train wreck has been going on for weeks now.

 

[Can Crusher]

I can try and provide as much clarity as I can on things I’ve said. I’ve posed in a couple other threads that I don’t like to speak for other people in the org.

@artist - I don’t know when the final specs will be released, or I would share. I honestly don’t know the plan there.

Just to restate my response earlier – if you read the article, the point I was trying (poorly) to make is that until both consoles are actually done and shipping, and people can pull them apart and see what’s inside, nobody knows the truth. There are some SUPER smart folks here in these forums and I’m continually impressed by the technical ability of some of the members here. When I said “people don’t know what they are talking about” – it was in reference to the fact that the guys actually building the boxes are the only ones who know all the facts. It was never a commentary on the technical aptitude of the community.

Just like the debate between 360 and PS3, both systems will be *extremely* capable.

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Again, thanks to those who read the article and my follow-up and commented. It’s going to be an interesting few months before launch.

I don't know who you are, and whether you really work for MS or not since you don't have a tag but... The worst thing that a company can do is believe that their customers are dumb, or ignorant or uninformed. And it's pretty bad to try and discourage discussion about a topic MS itself doesn't want to be open about, in a flimsy attempt to delay certain kinds of answers that will result in bad word of mouth.

Just sayin.

 

[lastflowers]

I don't know who you are, and whether you really work for MS or not since you don't have a tag but... The worst thing that a company can do is believe that their customers are dumb, or ignorant or uninformed.

Just sayin.

I'm pretty sure that is exactly what he didn't say?

 

[Freki]

excuse my repost please, but I wanted to make sure this doesn't get lost:

I wish I could comment on every rumor that gets posted but I can’t. People seem to think I work in PR but I’m actually in the engineering team.

Your LinkedIn profile states:
Sr. Director - Product Planning, Compete and User Research

Oversee all Hardware, Accessories and Experiences planning for Xbox and Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Division. Also owns User Research and Competitive Strategy and Trends for the IEB Division.
Manages a team of 40 Product Planners, Researchers and Competitive Specialists across a range of Microsoft businesses.
Responsible for identifying customer needs and market and technology trends, for defining business opportunities and generating scenarios that enable the development of high-value products and services, and for partnering with Engineering and Marketing teams.

as well as
Director Of Marketing

Owned Platform Hardware, Accessories, and Third Party Marketing for Xbox. Drove marketing plans for all global Platform initiatives from the original Xbox console, Xbox 360, and Kinect. Managed the product roadmap and console bundles, SKU management, and Special Edition strategy for all Console HW and Accessories.

How can you be "Director of Marketing" but not work in PR?

 

[lastflowers]

I don't think the linkedIn is up-to-date.