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[slash000]

I think a game can be both artsy and retro.

Or like, every BitTrip game ever.


As far as the "art" discussion about XBLIG devs, I think more programmers should bring in artists to work with them. Some devs want to keep their games as 1-man productions, so they can call the end result entirely theirs. Some devs don't realize their art is poor. Some devs don't want to split the revenue or pay for art assets, which is understandable.

I still advocate getting artists on dev teams for XBLIG. It frees up the programmer/designer's time to focus on code/mechanics and usually results in better presentation and art. The end result is usually a much better product all around.

That's my take.

 

[FunInfusedGames]

The tricky part is people working for free or profit sharing often aren't motivated enough to stick with a project.

And if you pay out of pocket like I do and your game does poorly, you lose a lot. Financially I would have been better off to not make both Nasty and VolChaos. Both are the two games I spent the most on artwork and the two games that sold the worst.

 

[Ranger X]

The tricky part is people working for free or profit sharing often aren't motivated enough to stick with a project.

And if you pay out of pocket like I do and your game does poorly, you lose a lot. Financially I would have been better off to not make both Nasty and VolChaos. Both are the two games I spent the most on artwork and the two games that sold the worst.

Don't you have other publishing avenues? Selling it on your own website? Steam? Indy games websites? IOS? I'm genuinely curious to know if there's something you can do in matter or porting it for a minimal fee in order to try and recoup the original spendings...

 

[slash000]

The tricky part is people working for free or profit sharing often aren't motivated enough to stick with a project.

That's true. Finding someone dedicated and motivated to work with you is extremely difficult.

 

[Dark Octave]

Or like, every BitTrip game ever.


As far as the "art" discussion about XBLIG devs, I think more programmers should bring in artists to work with them. Some devs want to keep their games as 1-man productions, so they can call the end result entirely theirs. Some devs don't realize their art is poor. Some devs don't want to split the revenue or pay for art assets, which is understandable.

I still advocate getting artists on dev teams for XBLIG. It frees up the programmer/designer's time to focus on code/mechanics and usually results in better presentation and art. The end result is usually a much better product all around.

That's my take.

I'm convinced that people who buy indie games on Xbox are not buying them for their graphics. Games like Oozi look great, but they aren't the types of titles that fit with this service. We already have services that cater to polished looking platformers. Indie game buyers want those ugly experamental looking titles and the trendy zombie and mining clones.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from making a polished looking title on XBLIG, because I do enjoy them a lot, but I would have them understand that if they expect to gain an audiance that will appreciate their game (and make money on it), they are much better off on XBLA or Steam.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Yeah let me basically summarize my thought:

Many games on iOS are pretty but a lot of them are shallow and derivative of a few types of games (runners, tower defense, Angry Birds clones, etc) or have poor gameplay handling with virtual controls.

Games on XBLIG are generally all over the map with graphics but on average have better gameplay and some unique concepts/depth.

I agree that XBLIG don't need to be super pretty like Bastion or whatever, I am fine with retro graphics...but since the gameplay is king I want to see some sort of 'hook' that is interesting enough to make me play XBLIG instead of XBLA or Retail.

For example with Orbitron, besides high scores there is little motivation to play the game for more than an hour or two. A similar game concept on iOS was Space Miner, which basically took a similarly old game (Asteroids) but they fused it with collecting powerups and RPG style leveling. With Orbitron if there was some sort of leveling or power up system (Campaign mode) it would be perceived as something to work towards and better value.

I honestly think XBLIG devs might think about playing more mobile games and understand that market will help get better sales on console too, not for just outright copying them but for helping understand and nail the delicate balance of casual while still having depth. Games like Mr Ninja or Mr Oops on iOS seem simple at first but have just enough modes and progression to hook you, and it's not really a huge amount of content either it's just the way it's layed out (presentation/progress).

 

[OldmanAndroid]

Doc Logic
-Also just recently bought, after loving the music and potential worlds.
-I wish there were more enemy types, frankly.
-The game gets real stressful as the levels go up. Sometimes frustrating.
-Lots of love seen in its development, artwork and all that.
-The Coming Soon section fills me with sadness, as I doubt they are being worked on, right?

sweeeet, thanks! Ya those games in the coming soon section have lost momentum unfortunately. I'm in the concept stage of a new project now, for Unity....multiplatform from the ground-up.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Nothing wrong with Unity, one of my online friends works there and I'm sure it will power a ton of Windows 8 games

The last article I saw about Unity for WP was this one: http://wmpoweruser.com/unity-game-engine-skipping-wp7-may-come-to-wp8/

In XBLIG news land the next game from Cursed Loot dev looks pretty close to Space Miner meets Solar 2:

http://www.eyehookgames.com/news/2011/12/4/sneak-peek-of-cursed-cosmos.html

I always wondered why people don't make space exploration games that are more casual (like the art/techno music of Star Control 2 but with retro gameplay and collecting minerals/buying upgrades)

 

[FunInfusedGames]

Don't you have other publishing avenues? Selling it on your own website? Steam? Indy games websites? IOS? I'm genuinely curious to know if there's something you can do in matter or porting it for a minimal fee in order to try and recoup the original spendings...

Yes, of course there will be! And I could eventually make the money I spent back (though it clearly won't be on XBLIG). I'm working on a PC port right now actually. Besides updating Volchaos for PC, I'm adding online leaderboards for fastest times, a level editor and website to share user made levels on, and a handful of new levels.

If there is a good turn out on people making levels, I'd love to release a map-pack of the best user created stuff.

I won't not considering an iOS port in the future as well.

 

[Gaspode_T]

As far as getting on Steam, probably getting the Super Meat Boy fanbase on your side would help, maybe you can bug Team Meat to RT when you release PC version I know your game isn't directly comparable to Super Meat Boy but it's definitely hard on dark mode

 

[OnPoint]

Amusing game alert

The new Silver Dollar Game where Cassie makes animal noises is hilarious and worth a trial download.

 

[Ranger X]

Yes, of course there will be! And I could eventually make the money I spent back (though it clearly won't be on XBLIG). I'm working on a PC port right now actually. Besides updating Volchaos for PC, I'm adding online leaderboards for fastest times, a level editor and website to share user made levels on, and a handful of new levels.

If there is a good turn out on people making levels, I'd love to release a map-pack of the best user created stuff.

I won't not considering an iOS port in the future as well.

That's nice. I level editor would actually interest me. I tried the trial of Volchaos (impossible to resist good pixel art!) and didn't buy it yet because I had an average first impression either with the difficulty curve or something in the way controls feels.
Anyhow, that was a close miss (I also kept the trial to see if my opinion changes later) and that level editor could make me jump the fence. (I love level design and starting a career right now).

 

[AcceptableGhost]

If anyone is looking to port their games over to C++ for one reason or another (and it is 2D) then SFML is super easy to port over with. It is also multi-platform so if you stick to just that and personal/standard libraries you can hit Windows/Mac/Linux with ease. I ported a game over just to see the viability (and as a learning exercise) of it and I have to say it was a breeze making delegation classes around previously XNA classes (making my own "SpriteBatch", etc - implemented by just calling functions of SFML).

 

[Gaspode_T]

"Let's Get Fiscal" - I went in expecting the worst but it's actually kind of fun and funny (if definitely on the crude and tasteless side of humor). I'm not saying it's great, just kind of cute..the fact that most of the sound effects seem to be some guy's voice going "bloop" gives it a kitsch factor.

It's basically a Final Fight / Streets of Rage style game where you are an accountant send to go do "audits" ... there is voice acting, it's kind of clear the devs are fans of the genre and enough cut scenes to want to play through the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqTX2vRchwc

I just noticed in this trailer it has a painting on the wall with that game "Get Rich or Die Gaming" or whatever so it must be the same dev. The levels are pretty varied too, but enemies are not (some of them are funny though)

Anyone try any of the other new games? I, Zombie? Avatar Extreme Jogging?

 

[Gaspode_T]

This game looks kind of cute:

No one is going to make an Orbitron OT and support a fellow GAFer? If there is one game that deserves some love from those who don't look at XBLIG that often, I mean, look at the graphics...they are easily better than most XBLA games.

 

[Gaspode_T]

<crickets chirping>

I just found out about this website on another forum, it's pretty awesome:

http://xblig.co/

 

[OnPoint]

Perhaps I'll put a thread for it together tomorrow.

Hopefully WarmMachine will update us on whether it helps sales or not

 

[Kalnos]

If anyone is looking to port their games over to C++ for one reason or another (and it is 2D) then SFML is super easy to port over with. It is also multi-platform so if you stick to just that and personal/standard libraries you can hit Windows/Mac/Linux with ease. I ported a game over just to see the viability (and as a learning exercise) of it and I have to say it was a breeze making delegation classes around previously XNA classes (making my own "SpriteBatch", etc - implemented by just calling functions of SFML).

Not to mention SFML 2.0 is almost done!

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Not to mention SFML 2.0 is almost done!

Yeah when I used it, I used a snapshot of SFML 2.0. Good to hear it is almost at release though, should be great.

 

[Feep]

I hear MonoGame 2.0 makes it quite easy. I'm interested in trying it out.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Hmmmm, my worry with these engines is that under the covers there is some decision making happening about OpenGL vs DirectX, for Windows 8 it will help you a lot if you want to make a graphically intense game to just use DirectX 11 directly, for some Sony hardware it might give you more control if you are able to fudge with OpenGL directly, I think the middleware for a indie developer that has his heart set on using 3D graphics is not a simple decision. Unity is pretty much loved in the pro dev circles, but might be a high learning curve and definitely moving towards being more of a professional thing than indie thing.

If you're just wanting to make 2D game or Words with Friends there is the option of going 100% HTML5 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/davrous/arc...he-xna-game-to-lt-canvas-gt-with-easeljs.aspx , this combined with something like Azure (edit: or your favorite online database solution ) is actually kind of powerful because you can host data or do something like an asynchronous multiplayer game (see Carcassonne on iOS) with RESTful APIs...HTML5 might seem limited at first but when you consider server side stuff it's actually quite wide open with stuff you can do.

I always had the idea of making RPG that people could design and upload their own monsters, it would be ridiculously easy to do as long as you have somewhere to store the data and maybe let people kill offensive images from the system Since XBLIG don't have HttpWebRequest you can't do it there but it would be possible from WP7 games.

 

[FunInfusedGames]

HTML5 works good for graphics but it majorly sucks for audio. Different browsers want different music formats and clipping or lagging when playing sound effects is pretty common. I think it's a step in the right direction (I passionately hate flash) but it still has a ways to go before it can do games right. Until they improve audio support, I won't be doing any more HTML5 projects.

FYI this is Hypership in HTML5 incase you hadn't seen it before: http://www.funinfused.com/HypershipOnline/

 

[Gaspode_T]

Hmmm have you seen this post? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/05/13/unlocking-the-power-of-html5-lt-audio-gt.aspx

There will be a big gap in between IE9 and IE10 in terms of HTML5 support

 

[FunInfusedGames]

There will be a big gap in between IE9 and IE10 in terms of HTML5 support

Looks interesting but does that resolve the clipping or lag or different performance / formats under different browsers? They need an across the board solution, not a fix for IE. Speaking of which, does anyone even use IE anymore?

 

[binary]

Everyone needs to try Escape Goat if they haven't already. I downloaded the demo, bought it when the 5 minutes were up and proceeded to beat the game in 2 hours and 45 minutes in one sitting. When you're playing the game you keep saying to yourself, just one more puzzle! One of the best XBLIG I've ever played.

 

[Warm Machine]

Created this image today for those interested.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Looks interesting but does that resolve the clipping or lag or different performance / formats under different browsers? They need an across the board solution, not a fix for IE. Speaking of which, does anyone even use IE anymore?

On Windows 7 more people use it than Chrome or Firefox (http://windowsteamblog.com/ie/b/ie/...ng-modern-browser-on-windows-7-worldwide.aspx) and worldwide share will probably spike up after the automatic update thing they announced rolls out (so many people are still using IE7 and IE8 it's insane)

The only way to really fix the issues you are talking about for intensive games is to have hardware acceleration, and Microsoft is probably in a little bit better position to enable that with IE, I'd almost call it a competitive advantage. You have to predict what browser people use on a Windows 8 tablet is kind of what I'm hinting at. Technology is changing and converging rapidly, you can either dive into more technically or try to abstract at a higher level, I do kind of think that the middle ground is the most difficult place to be unless you are some sort of middleware developer, in which case it's awesome from a business perspective...

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I like how XBLIG discussion has turned from games into "oh god where should I port my XBLIG game to?"

 

[Ranger X]

Everyone needs to try Escape Goat if they haven't already. I downloaded the demo, bought it when the 5 minutes were up and proceeded to beat the game in 2 hours and 45 minutes in one sitting. When you're playing the game you keep saying to yourself, just one more puzzle! One of the best XBLIG I've ever played.

Ditto. This game is mighty excellent!

 

[Gaspode_T]

Well, I was itching to post about the latest Silver Dollar Game but I'm not sure what to think about it.

I think many indie devs should consider 1) how can I increase my business savvy, 2) how can I market my game effectively, 3) align long term career goal with short term goals

#1 it's not as simple as "there are higher volume sales for some games on Platform A, that means I should port a game to that and I will be rich!!!". That's like thinking, oh, because there are huge Casinos in Las Vegas, I will buy a small plot of land behind one of them and build my own Casino and I will be rich too! I'm more of the mindset that results come with hard work, people who are lucky are simply lucky but the sort of result that you get with effort will last any sort of challenge.

#2 is simply wide open, if I really wanted to make money with games I would spend as much time marketing them as I did developing them. It's not just tweeting or sending mails, it's being creative and getting attention like Feep did with the Sequence thread.

#3 I have no idea what the long term goal of most XBLIG devs are, some seem to want to get into game development and get hired somewhere, some seem to want to have their own studio set up and quit day time job. The latter is full of risk IMO. Indie games on Steam are popular today, but things change, gamer expectations could change and become higher and higher. That's what I'm personally worried is already happening with some sort of disinterest in the XBLIG channel from many Xbox gamers. They are putting in millions of hours into MW3 and Battlefield 3. It will just get more and more AAA and more and more visceral in the future. Look at the Naughty Dog article thread here on GAF - even one of the top developers in the world is afraid of the future.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Speaking of business savvy, here are some examples of games that were ported from XBLIG to WP7:

Breeze:

http://playxbla.com/you-thought-this-would-be-breezy/

The Xbox Indie game Breeze has now been blown onto the Windows Phone, avoiding all obstacles and whirling to your fingertips

(XBLIG review ->
http://www.diygamer.com/2010/08/xblig-thursday-drifting-breeze/)

Shoot 1up:
http://mommysbest.blogspot.com/2011/10/shoot-1up-on-windows-phone-7.html

WP7 has a need for more games and games that aren't on iOS. Just go into the Windows Phone Gaming thread here and there are gamers there saying "boy I wish there were more games being released", it's kind of strange to see devs so resistant to jumping on that. It's probably easier to get XBL leaderboards / achievements for WP7 game than you think, if you have a semi-successful line of XBLIG games. It might seem like the path of least resistance is to go to iOS or whatever, but when you already have massive XNA skills and you want to make use of them...

Edit: Here is an example of someone who bought WP7 expecting it to be 'the' place for games and basically begging for more games: http://forums.wpcentral.com/marketplace-games/182289.htm

I will even give a list of the top games I would want to see be ported to WP7 with XBL achievements/online leaderboards:

Cute Things Dying Violently
Decimation X3/Score Rush
Bloody Checkers
TEC 3001
SpeedRunner HD
Train Frontier Express
Orbitron
etc etc

Volchaos would be another one that would be great on WP7, but the touch would have to be super refined to work well.

If you go to the right people with the right approach, someone at MSFT will listen...I'm sure the main thing they care about is more on the 'stability' 'follow up with promises' 'dude has his stuff together' side of the spectrum when you are an unproven dude in garage.

The truth is that Microsoft can get parity with iOS in gaming and it will only be that - parity. The XBLIG developers of the world are the ones that can create the most immediate differentiation from iPhone/Android, so if I were in your shoes I would be looking at this as a golden opportunity to get foot in door whereas XBLA is a much, much, much steeper hill to climb from almost every account I've heard.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Right now is the perfect time to release games for WP7, its doing very well over in the UK after the new Nokia phones came out.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Yeah i'm only ragging on this point because there seems to be so many misconceptions about what's going on with these marketplaces. It's nagging on my mind now so I have to vent more before I go home from work

For downloadable games, IMO the platform you release on has a big difference if it is closed or open, closed meaning if you have to ask permission to release from some sort of quality based approval process.

Apple App Store - Open Platform
Android Chrome Store - Open Platform
WP7 - Open Platform
XBLIG - Open Platform
Windows 8 Windows Store - Open Platform
The World Wide Web - Open Platform

PS Minis - Closed Platform - not even available in many countries in the world
WiiWare - Closed Platform - lots of reports of poor sales, many devs tried to jump to XBLA with varying success
XBLA - 'Super' Closed Platform
WP7 XBL Games - Closed Platform
PSN - Closed Platform
Steam - 'Super' Closed Platform

PS Suite = ??? I have no idea, if it's open it will be interesting to see how much pressure it puts on Microsoft.

It's pretty obvious that heavy amount of competition on open platforms drives prices down if supply exceeds demand (meaning in most cases gamers will just not buy something if it's priced more than $1, because they can be satisfied with something else available that is free or $1).

This is exactly what's happening on both iOS and XBLIG, some games can get away with higher prices for various reasons, but most don't sell unless it's a buck. The open model in general seems to encourage free games that have IAP, and freemium/social games which are making tons of money. Any time that gamers are spending with extremely cheap games is bringing down the revenue that game industry creates because their time is not infinite, so the industry will naturally evolve to suck money out of people playing cheap games in creative ways (like a mosquito draws blood).

So basically open platform models are actually putting pressure on the closed platform models. You see Steam sales all the time right? Technically they would probably prefer to never put games on sale, but they do it because they want to get attention to the marketplace and keep people within Steamworks world. It's a marketing tactic, not just a good gesture. it's a response to the fact that if they kept games at $59 no one would buy Steam games, even though some of them are actually $59 on consoles.

I have seen XBLIG devs who are asking for the ability to have more codes to give away, or put their games on sale for Free, that would definitely put it more aligned with the way that games are marketed on mobile side of open platform world. Having more control over pricing would solve one big problem for you. I am not sure there will ever be something like 'in app purchase' for XBLIG games, but that's the sort of thing that would make the marketplace suddenly much more scalable from economics perspective.

I would agree that the XBLIG marketplace doesn't rate very highly in terms of features that make it competitive with other open platforms...but unfortunately it is currently the only one that can give you experience with console development as an open platform and not even having to have a dev kit.

As a dev wanting to publish on an open platform you should consider things such as "Can I make a demo", "Can I have IAP", "Can I do price drops" etc. I see way too many devs obsessing over top download list this and not having achievements, IMO the above factors are way more important.

The only reason I keep mentioning Windows Store is that it actually looks very, very nice...they have obviously had the luxury of seeing problems with the other marketplaces and being able to avoid those from the start:

Another difference between the Windows Store model and existing app stores is that users will often be able to download free app demos to try out software before making a purchase. Now, of course, Android and iOS offer “lite” or “free” app versions, which users can upgrade to more feature-rich versions, or versions that, say, eliminate in-app advertising. But in Microsoft’s scheme, developers can bake in time-limited free trials, giving users a complete taste of the full app version, all without a separate download.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/12/windows-8-store-introduced/

You are free to take the good points from that, the things you want to see and go whack it over the heads of whoever is available to represent the marketplace you want to release games on, but it doesn't mean things will change overnight.

 

[OnPoint]

GameMarx is switching to games development and is now giving away 50 XBLIG tokens they've accumulated over the course of being a press outlet.

http://giveaway.gamemarx.com/the-games/

They are currently working on Captain Dubstep for XBLIG: http://captaindubstep.net/

 

[FunInfusedGames]

As a dev wanting to publish on an open platform you should consider things such as "Can I make a demo", "Can I have IAP", "Can I do price drops" etc. I see way too many devs obsessing over top download list this and not having achievements, IMO the above factors are way more important.

First and foremost, you need a marketplace that wants your games. If they filtered the Top Downloads differently it could draw in actual gamers, same with adding achievements or leaderboards. Microsoft has done a poor job of creating a market for gamers (perhaps this never was their intention and if so I can't fault them for failing to do so). XBox Live Indie "Games" these days seems to consist of a young audience that has more interest in finding something to get a quick laugh from than finding traditional games. This is the only way I can explain the success of titles like Avatar Massage, No Luca No, anything from Silver Dollar Games, etc.

I won't say I'll never release another XBLIG title, but I'm done with spending months on anything for this platform. Any release I do will be something I can put together quickly and most likely with a quirky or funny theme. My big games are going to PC and iOS, platforms where I believe they will be appreciated.

The only reason I keep mentioning Windows Store is that it actually looks very, very nice...they have obviously had the luxury of seeing problems with the other marketplaces and being able to avoid those from the start:

I haven't followed this real closely lately, but the big uproar w/ XNA devs a while back was the likelyhood that many of the Windows 8 specific features / UI aren't going to be supported in XNA games. So while this is cool there will be a Windows App Store, it's hard to jump all over it, especially given how poorly Microsoft has managed their XBLIG storefront. Or how disadvantaged WP7 non-Live games are compared to the Live ones, which are only a small percentage of titles.

 

[Ranger X]

This game looks kind of cute:

No one is going to make an Orbitron OT and support a fellow GAFer? If there is one game that deserves some love from those who don't look at XBLIG that often, I mean, look at the graphics...they are easily better than most XBLA games.

I tried it (pixel art + platformer whore here).
I didn't buy it because its way too much of a Mario clone + there's a wierd mix of pixel art and another type of 2D graphics. It really doesn't fit. It's sorta fun at least.

 

[ScrabbleDude]

I just received some Microsoft points today so I bought DLC Quest and Volchaos. I finished DLC Quest -- really enjoyed the looks, humour, and music. It is short, and it's not really a game since there's no real potential conflict, but it was worth 80MSP.

I had some difficulty finding VolChaos. It didn't come up on Bing search, and when I tried to find it by title, it's at the end of the list and I don't know how to jump by letters. I eventually just scrolled through the list by release date until I found it -- it was a LOT of clicks.

The gameplay is fun but it will take me a bit to get used to the physics. I like the look of the game. The music isn't for me though, it seems a bit loud. On the whole I'd recommend it. I've only played the first 5 levels since my wife wanted me off the 360, but I look forward to playing more.

What other 80MSP games should I be getting? I've got Breath of Death VII and love it. I'm going to look into Soulcaster. There are 240MSP games I'm interested in, but for some reason it's a little more difficult for me to pull the trigger on them.

 

[Miutsu]

As a dev note, these past few days I've been tracking issues with performance in my 2D game, and while I have resolved almost all my bottlenecks... man does it makes you paranoid :/ (the Xbox CPU/Garbage Collector) looking up information on the net you find out there are tons of stuff to avoid that a developer under normal circumstances wouldn't consider much of a trouble.

 

[Ranger X]

I just received some Microsoft points today so I bought DLC Quest and Volchaos. I finished DLC Quest -- really enjoyed the looks, humour, and music. It is short, and it's not really a game since there's no real potential conflict, but it was worth 80MSP.

I had some difficulty finding VolChaos. It didn't come up on Bing search, and when I tried to find it by title, it's at the end of the list and I don't know how to jump by letters. I eventually just scrolled through the list by release date until I found it -- it was a LOT of clicks.

The gameplay is fun but it will take me a bit to get used to the physics. I like the look of the game. The music isn't for me though, it seems a bit loud. On the whole I'd recommend it. I've only played the first 5 levels since my wife wanted me off the 360, but I look forward to playing more.

What other 80MSP games should I be getting? I've got Breath of Death VII and love it. I'm going to look into Soulcaster. There are 240MSP games I'm interested in, but for some reason it's a little more difficult for me to pull the trigger on them.

Some suggestions of old games you might have missed...

Aban Hawkings and the 1000 spikes

Learn by death platformer like Super Meat Boy. You have 1000 lives to get to the end of the game. Very nice game in very nice and old school pixel art.

Aesop Garden

Excellent "action-puzzle" game like the Adventures of Lolo series. The game is a "NES-like" on top of that. Best 80 points I've ever spent.

 

[Gaspode_T]

What other 80MSP games should I be getting? I've got Breath of Death VII and love it. I'm going to look into Soulcaster. There are 240MSP games I'm interested in, but for some reason it's a little more difficult for me to pull the trigger on them.

What kind of games do you like? The list at http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11888 is split up by genre, there are a lot of other posts here at NeoGAF you can look at (that toysthatkill created)

Soulcaster is definitely awesome, it's kind of like tower defense meets an old school NES action game, you have some 'souls' to place that help defend you and attack enemies, you can pick them back up and move yourself into a better defensive position...you collect EXP/gold and buy upgrades.

 

[Ranger X]

What kind of games do you like? The list at http://www.grcade.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11888 is split up by genre, there are a lot of other posts here at NeoGAF you can look at (that toysthatkill created)

Soulcaster is definitely awesome, it's kind of like tower defense meets an old school NES action game, you have some 'souls' to place that help defend you and attack enemies, you can pick them back up and move yourself into a better defensive position...you collect EXP/gold and buy upgrades.

Wow, thanks for this link. This made me discover Laser Cat and also Alawishus Pixel.

 

[OnPoint]

Wow, thanks for this link. This made me discover Laser Cat and also Alawishus Pixel.

Both great, great games.

Also don't forget Curse of the Crescent Isle.

 

[MikeHaggar]

As a dev note, these past few days I've been tracking issues with performance in my 2D game, and while I have resolved almost all my bottlenecks... man does it makes you paranoid :/ (the Xbox CPU/Garbage Collector) looking up information on the net you find out there are tons of stuff to avoid that a developer under normal circumstances wouldn't consider much of a trouble.

care to share any of these things to avoid?

 

[Gaspode_T]

Wow, thanks for this link. This made me discover Laser Cat and also Alawishus Pixel.

I think Laser Cat won one of toy's Indie Game of the Months, it is full of references to classic C64/Amiga games ...

I could have sworn Alawishus was made by a gaffer (so was Aesop's Garden I believe)

Apple Jack is made by a gaffer/Penny Arcade Forum guy Trumpets. Maybe someone can compile a list of NeoGAF XBLIG devs.

I can give you a list of XBLIG that were developed by Microsoft employees Alpha Squad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akjz_u3_Wmk) is one of them (he's no longer at MSFT though)

 

[Ranger X]

Both great, great games.

Also don't forget Curse of the Crescent Isle.

Played that one
Pretty good.

 

[OnPoint]

Played that one
Pretty good.

The Deep Cave

 

[Ranger X]

The Deep Cave

Didn't strike a chord with me. I should try it sometimes I guess.

 

[Miutsu]

care to share any of these things to avoid?

Well, for starters the one thing everyone will tell you to do is to decrease memory allocation as much as posible, which can be hidden in many different places (concatenating strings or using ToString(), boxing value types, boxing of Enumerator through foreach, creating objects too frequently, etc) but then there are these little details to increase cpu performance like using methods with pass-by-reference parameters instead of overloaded operators for math operations (add/divide/substract/multiply) with structs like Vector2 or avoiding using properties unless its neccesarry because it can create method overhead.

I guess many of these things come from common sense for people with more experience but this being my first time with game development.. well let's say it can mess with the way you are used to program, specially with the avoiding properties thing (sucker for encapsulation).

Anyway, here are some links with information about those things, some are pretty old but still apply:

http://www.sgtconker.com/2011/05/hi...izations-on-the-xbox-360-and-windows-phone-7/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/netcfteam/archive/2005/05/04/414820.aspx
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/632831/why-are-public-fields-faster-than-properties
http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/77407.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

[Gaspode_T]

Kobun of the xblig.co site wrote a quick rant jumping in on the "my game isn't selling" debate:

http://xblig.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187

Negativity generally only breeds negativity in a Star Wars dark side sort of way, it's a very interesting and scary thing.

On a positive note the drop to 80 points seems to really be helping MagicalTimeBean out with Soulcaster I/II sales spiking up:

http://www.magicaltimebean.com/2011/12/magic-seal-pelts-follow-up-first-week-after-price-drop/

 

[MikeHaggar]

Kobun of the xblig.co site wrote a quick rant jumping in on the "my game isn't selling" debate:

http://xblig.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187

Negativity generally only breeds negativity in a Star Wars dark side sort of way, it's a very interesting and scary thing.

really great article. i completely agree with everything in there.