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Xbox LIVE Indie Games - The February 2011 Thread

I know it's not exactly what you mean, but I did speak to a few gamers for a piece I wrote last year that's on ntsc-uk. Could interest a few people, I guess!

Where are the Gamers?

Asim Tanvir, 25, has been using Xbox LIVE for six years. "I don't feel compelled to buy them," he says. "This is coming from a guy who doesn't usually hesitate when buying a game.

"If I'm only going to play them once or twice before I get drawn into some online gaming with my mates on Modern Warfare 2, there's not much point."

Is the experience of Indie Games lacking, or is it something closer to peer pressure? Would he buy more indie games if his friends were playing them too?

"It would have an effect, yes. Out of my mates who I game with though, I am the only one who pays attention to indie titles."

As well as this, Indie Games have developed a reputation as, well, Michael Rogers puts it best. He's 26 years old and has been a gamer for just about all of them and trialled all of the games in the first few months of the service.

"I used to like just downloading the indie stuff originally as filler," he says. "For those 15-20 minutes where you don't feel like playing something heavy."

Filler. It's fair to say that many indie games simply don't offer the depth of experience you'd want from a game you'd paid money for or would expect from a game released in traditional retail channels.

Do the problems end there? Not according to Rogers, who also believes that the audience is all wrong on the Xbox 360. There may be 17m people on LIVE, but they're the wrong people.

"I think gaming 'veterans' are more likely to warm to indie gaming," he says. "The main audience for the 360 is all about graphics, guns and space marines, but I think there being a large core audience like that hurts the Indie marketplace greatly. I think [Indie Games] are too primitive for the new generation of 'hardcore' gamers."

And if there's one thing hardcore gamers on the Xbox 360 are into, it's achievements. Oli Clarke Smith, 25, says: "I am a self confessed achievement whore and I would purchase more indie games if they had achievements in them.

"I know that I am wrong in some ways about this but I would have bought the Arkedo games if they had achievements in."
 
interesting.... achievements could be the thing that enhances the entire indie platform, and with no marketing cost to microsoft. Perhaps the XNA community should come up with a list of achievement conditions, that could be added to the XNA Evil Checklist (the checklist which determines whether a game passes/fails peer review).

Or some generic acheivements that every indie game could have, like:
- beat the main game
- beat the main game on harder difficulty
- completed alternate game

Also, no game can have the word "acheivement" in the title. Approaching Microsoft with these conditions might accelerate the process.
 

Kafel

Banned
Seriously, if someone considers buying a game only because it has achievements I'm not sure he's interested in a deep, niche game to begin with. He'll buy crap with achievements.
 

OnPoint

Member
Kafel said:
Seriously, if someone considers buying a game only because it has achievements I'm not sure he's interested in a deep, niche game to begin with. He'll buy crap with achievements.

I have friends who will play games they'd never touch otherwise solely based on their achievement value. Avatar (the cartoon) is supposedly one of the easiest 1000s you'll ever get.
 
Kafel said:
Seriously, if someone considers buying a game only because it has achievements I'm not sure he's interested in a deep, niche game to begin with. He'll buy crap with achievements.
I think everyone's a bit achievement whore, to some degree. I tell myself that I don't care about them that much but if I've got 190/200 I'll go out of my way to finish the game. And there are games that I've kinda wanted to play but then thought "I've already got all the achievements in that, I'd be wasting my time."

I wouldn't buy a rubbish game to get some cheap achievements, but they definitely affect the way I play and I can see why people would think a game with no achievements would be time that could be better spent. Whether I like it or not!
 
It's bizarre, in a way. Do they get money from anywhere else? With mo-cap and everything it can't have been cheap to develop, so I'm massively curious as to the kind of sales they're getting to keep releasing new editions.

Apparently they have 160,000 fans on Facebook :/
 

SmallCaveGames

Neo Member
I think they do quite well. Not sure where I saw the sales data but I remember it being solid. It's one of those games that carved out a target market and eats up the entire thing.

Like that music program that I can never remember the name of but was priced at 800MP and solid 30,000+ copies. Emuze or something?
 
I'm having a hard time evaluating College Lacross 2011 because I'm just not familiar enough with lacrosse, beyond knowing that the point is to get the ball in the opponents net. Thinking about it, I couldn't be 100% on that even, I just assume! So while it controls and plays well, I also found it very difficult to create space for my players, and once you get in shooting range I found I was surrounded by at least three players every time. And that's the problem, because I'm not sure if that's an issue with the game or if that's genuinely what lacrosse is like, and if there's some better tactics that I could employ to make space. So yeah, I had fun playing it, but I just have no idea if someone who genuinely enjoys and knows lacrosse will like it.

Adventures of Rocaman is a nice retro platformer, it plays really well but I don't like the blur too much. There's three levels in the trial and they're full of hidden routes, which is ace. The description says there's 8 worlds, I'm not sure if that means 8 levels, because if so the game would be over pretty quickly. I've tweeted the dev to find out and will let y'all know.

A lot of balls is a lottery simulator. Right.
 

Intruder_qc

Neo Member
@toythatkills

Well lacrosse isn't a well known sports, originally this was played by the native Amerindian a long time ago and it was rather violent (read some history that the were often death in matches).

Maybe reading rules/history could help you figure it out ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse

Ohhh and you though lottery simulator is bad... you just wait for what is in the pipeline in reviews... (or other stuff in playtest). Be very afraid! You should definitely get an AppHub membership to go see the stuff there ;-) (luckily sometimes disaster are averted as those stuff are too buggy and get FAIL in peer review, but if they aren't broken, well we can't fail them for being mediocre or worst).
 

nli10

Member
toythatkills said:
MotorHeat and Avatar Ninja are by them too, which are both excellent, so I've got high hopes for this!

Even Avatar Bump was weirdly hard to stop playing, even though I'm pretty sure I've played it before in Mario Party.

I like Milkstone because even when I don't like the style of game (Ninja & Bump) I can still appreciate that it's well made and good within it's genre. MotorHEAT is my most played indie game after Miner Dig Deep.

toythatkills said:
Trivia or Die just came out, from Fun Infused. It's easily the best quiz show game on the service, I think, purely down to the speed it goes at. There's questions every few seconds, unlike the Quizcall games where it takes AGES to load between questions. Speed is where it's at. It's quite funny too, getting questions wrong results in abuse. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure it's for me, I came across a few questions about American universities, and there's a question about US presidents in the trailer. Being from the UK, it's not the kind of knowledge I've ever needed or had!

Played Trivia or Die last night with Ms. NLi10 who proceeded to destroy me. I think I won once. I'm at 51% to her 72%. Love the variety of questions (must be about 100 in with only one notable repeat) and due to their 'which is highest' style I haven't seen loads of them before. A bit US centric so maybe the categorical versions mentioned will be better.

The 'you are dumb' screens are funny, but slow the game down a lot when you play with worse AI players.

Well worth the 80 points on the box though and I'll be pimping this one to my friends for their own local play. Also we got about 3/4 rounds of 10 questions in during our first trial - no artificial lock outs and no trickery. Really appreciated being able to play with a non live account with her avatar too in the trial. It's that kind of touch that makes something an instant buy.

I can understand how this is best with local players though. 2 pads required I guess.
 

Jhoan

Member
Since the thread wants impressions on demos as well as full games, here's my impressions of a couple of demos of games that I tried out this week:

Cthulhu Saves the World- It's pretty funny, combat's very similar to the Dragon Quest series except with a couple of twists with enemies increasing in strength every turn and customizing at every level. I feel like like checking it out because I'm a sucker for RPG's and the humor's pretty good and well written. The only thing that's stopping me from checking it out is that it's 240MSP and I could do a lot of things with 1620 MSP, so I don't know.

Rainbow Ball into Adventure- It's surprisingly charming and cute because of the child's drawings and the children sound bytes that you hear when you collect letters and numbers and when there's 10 seconds left which they start counting down. The music's pretty good too. At 80 MSP, I think it's a steal so I may check it out one of these days.

OSR: Unleashed(sp?)- It's pretty good, but it's obvious influence is Trials HD so I'll daresay that it's a Trials clone down to a T, but it's slightly different in that you collect tokens to unlock new bikes and there's courses that are circuit race style and I can only imagine it takes more creative liberties than Trials does. It's extremely well done and there's even leader boards which is great. At 80 MSP, I could probably see myself getting this game somewhere down the line, it has a lot of value, probably more value than Trials at 1200 MSP (I bought it for 600 MSP though).

Those are all my impressions. I only bought one Indie game and that's The Tempura of the Dead. I'm definitely keeping my eye out on the Indie Games section even if it's to try out the trials.
 
Adventures of Rocaman is OK. The gameplay is definitely old school, sort of like Super Mario Bros or Adventure Island. But the music and graphics aren't that great. I didn't play past the second stage. If I get bored later I might give it another shot.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
"I know that I am wrong in some ways about this but I would have bought the Arkedo games if they had achievements in."
This is a profound failure on the part of MS, but not for the reasons that most people are thinking of.
 
Jipan said:
Since the thread wants impressions on demos as well as full games, here's my impressions of a couple of demos of games that I tried out this week:

Cthulhu Saves the World- It's pretty funny, combat's very similar to the Dragon Quest series except with a couple of twists with enemies increasing in strength every turn and customizing at every level. I feel like like checking it out because I'm a sucker for RPG's and the humor's pretty good and well written. The only thing that's stopping me from checking it out is that it's 240MSP and I could do a lot of things with 1620 MSP, so I don't know.

Breath of Death VII, the previous game by the developer is 80MSP. It's more basic than Cthulhu in graphics and scope, but same kind of humor and battle system.
 

MrWhitefolks

Neo Member
Well, Avatar Online Adventures is out:

Looks to be a basic but decently designed MMO type title with support for up to 16 players However, after purchasing it (240pts) and expecting to use this to waste some time tonight, it's crashed 4 times (2 of which were when trying to load my character) in the last ten minutes.

Looks like it might be fun, but I'm not sure many people will be happy constantly having to get up and reset their systems manually over and over.

edit: make that 5 times

edit 2: make that 6 times (at least I was able to stay in game long enough this time to get to level 2)
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Avatar Online Adventures isnt half bad

EDIT:more polish would be great though, I would probably buy it then. Still though not half bad.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
MrWhitefolks said:
Well, Avatar Online Adventures is out:

Looks to be a basic but decently designed MMO type title with support for up to 16 players However, after purchasing it (240pts) and expecting to use this to waste some time tonight, it's crashed 4 times (2 of which were when trying to load my character) in the last ten minutes.

Looks like it might be fun, but I'm not sure many people will be happy constantly having to get up and reset their systems manually over and over.

edit: make that 5 times

edit 2: make that 6 times (at least I was able to stay in game long enough this time to get to level 2)
Mine hasnt crashed once yet and I got to lvl 3.
 

Intruder_qc

Neo Member
@MrWhiteFolks

When you say the game is crashing is it with CODE 4? And do you see what is causing the crash or it's more like random? I can report this to the developer in the AppHub forums.

But this make me *sigh* as it's probably one of those games that people give it a PASS quickly so that they can get a PASS for their own game in returns :-(.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Ventron said:
I looked through that thread and noticed something missing, especially under the Role Playing category.

:(


EDIT:
BTW, I'm running a Twitter contest where 1st prize is a free copy of said nameless game, see here: http://www.redcreststudios.com/2011/02/win-copy-of-bonded-realities.html

Hey, I've been playing a bit of Bonded Realities here and there, very close to the end... just beat the
secret boss
and now up to the final castle. Just wanted to say the game was really awesome.

What I liked:
+Nice hand-drawn monster portraits
+Love the damage effects (they were sorely missing in the Zeboyd RPGs)
+I like the various battle themes you have, as well as the dungeon theme
+A good amount of environmental interaction
+Also like how you can turn off random encounters
+I like the British stylings of it, the game itself reminds me of what Earthbound would be if it had grounds in British culture rather than Americana. Funny enough I bought this and Apple Jack on the same day.

What I didn't like:
-Many of the environments are very blocky and angular
-Some of the later bosses can be damage sponges (this is after the update patch)
-Since a townsperson mentions there tends to be hidden stuff if you backtrack (I haven't done this in my playthrough), a teleport spell would have been a great idea.
-Could have had a bit more variety in music

All in all, it was a great game and I definitely got my $1 worth. Looking forward to what you guys have in store next (hopefully another RPG)!
 

Kafel

Banned


I had the opportunity to try College Lacrosse 11 last night and this morning. And wow at the level of polish of this indie game.

Now I must confess I didn't know ANYTHING about Lacrosse. I've already heard about this sport but didn't see a single game on TV or anywhere else (I live in France so it might explain why). All I knew about it was from movies, American Pie being one of them I think *shame*. So for people who don't know this sport it's like hockey but on grass, with a little ball that players (roughly a dozen of them in each team) send to each others and catch with a sort of butterfly net.

The game itself is not easy for a beginner, you have to master the shooting part with the right stick as you're being chased by big guys with helmets. It honestly took me a bit of time but once it's done (thank you training mode) you're set to break the bank. Yeah, you can earn money by playing and buy new clothes for your team to become more powerful : better gloves will make your shots more precise etc.

Overall it's obvious a lot of care went into this game. In fact there's in this indie game everything you can find elsewhere for more popular sports. There are nice graphics, a solid gameplay, an already broad online community (I've launched an online match in less than 10 seconds!), replays, an engaging soundtrack (mostly hip-hop), a commentator (surprisingly I had to enable him in the options though), customizable teams, stats tracking ... The only point the Triple B Games studio didn't get right seems to be the navigation through the menus, it's a bit cold and I think I've spent almost one minute increasing the commentator's volume.

I invite everyone to at least try the demo, whether you like this sport or not the game is very enjoyable, plus not everyday an indie gets that close to the most professional retail products. In fact I wish other less-known sports would get the same treatment such as rugby, or handball.

screen1.jpg
 

Joshery

Neo Member
OldmanAndroid said:
Its just the music eating up the space....XNA forces you to use .wav files. We're using an album from 8bit weapon, game details here.

Are you using compression inside XACT (XNA tool used for audio - for those that don't know)?
 
OldmanAndroid said:
Its just the music eating up the space....XNA forces you to use .wav files. We're using an album from 8bit weapon, game details here.

yeah, you can get XACT to compress it down... it compresses it really well, around 10% of the size - we had 650MB of .wav audio (music, dialogue, sounds etc..) for Excruciating Guitar Voyage...ends up as a 65MB wave bank file.
 

Nasreddin

Member
Kafel said:
I had the opportunity to try College Lacrosse 11 last night and this morning. And wow at the level of polish of this indie game.

Last year's entry was also a great game. Highly recommended!
 

gunstarhero

Member
LocoMrPollock said:
What an obnoxious name.

Agreed - the name is kinda lame and annoying.

The game looks like it's gonna be mad fun though - great party type game imo.

Hopefully it comes out soon.
 

Feep

Banned
You still use XACT? Unless you want 5.1 surround sound effects (directional audio), it's ten thousand times easier to use the SoundEffect and MediaPlayer API's, respectively: you can use almost any type of common audio file (.mp3, .wav, .wma, et cetera)
 
Feep said:
You still use XACT? Unless you want 5.1 surround sound effects (directional audio), it's ten thousand times easier to use the SoundEffect and MediaPlayer API's, respectively: you can use almost any type of common audio file (.mp3, .wav, .wma, et cetera)

XACT's pretty easy, imo - it's pretty much just one call to play a sound.. and it's a lot nicer having that pipeline there, ability to mix the audio in the XACT tool, change all the compression settings in one place (rather than having to recompress each file, etc..), all your looping and category info (for custom soundtracks etc.) in there, also.. for things like footsteps, we can have multiple samples all on the same cue - so we can have it automatically switch between 4 random footstep samples as the player walks, for example.. I can't get enough of that XACT goodness ;)

edit: ps, Feep - you got a website? I read all this stuff about the size of your game but somehow missed link? I wanna see what you're working on!!!
 

GhaleonEB

Member
LocoMrPollock said:
What an obnoxious name.
The game sounds even more obnoxious.

So what is it then? It's a two player co-op 'em up set in space, and you'll need two Xbox microphones, be it Xbox headsets or perhaps Rock Band microphones. One player controls the jet-pack by making jetpacky noises, while the other player makes 'pew pew' noises into the other microphone to shoot lazers and destroy obstacles.
 

MrWhitefolks

Neo Member
Intruder_qc said:
@MrWhiteFolks

When you say the game is crashing is it with CODE 4? And do you see what is causing the crash or it's more like random? I can report this to the developer in the AppHub forums.

But this make me *sigh* as it's probably one of those games that people give it a PASS quickly so that they can get a PASS for their own game in returns :-(.

They were just good 'ol hard crashes that required the system to manually be restarted. No error, no nothin.

However, I jumped back on today and I've only frozen once. The game itself is an extremely, if not basic mmo type title that is easy to get into and has hours upon hours of supposed content available (the world map is pretty damn big for an undertaking of this caliber). The option to play in private games with your friends adds that little bit of extra awesome to an already solid (albeit buggy) design and it should be given a chance by anyone that has even the most base interest in this genre.

Hell, it's an mmo for 240pts with no fees and full USB keyboard support. Give it a shot.

edit: make that two crashes. Looks to be the game dies when attempting to migrate players from 'world' to 'world'.
 
GhaleonEB said:
The game sounds even more obnoxious.


Holy shit. Glad I stopped at the title.

MrWhitefolks said:
They were just good 'ol hard crashes that required the system to manually be restarted. No error, no nothin.

edit: make that two crashes. Looks to be the game dies when attempting to migrate players from 'world' to 'world'.


Are you on an old system or using a 20gig HDD? Sometimes they crash for no apparent reason, in my experience anyway.
 
Joshery said:
Are you using compression inside XACT (XNA tool used for audio - for those that don't know)?

We are compressing with XACT, and recently had some better luck with .wav compression. Either way, it was worth it getting the game under 50mb....the idea of selling the game for $3 is kind of unsettling....if sales were poor, we'd be regretting not launching at $1.

Looking forward to better middle-ware that allows devs to go multiplatform easier, so the eggs arent all in the XBLIG basket......would love to have more options. Im really interested in Android, now with the new Xperia phone.....why iphone/windows phone 7 dont have a simple d-pad with 2 buttons is beyond me.

Keeping my eye on this: http://www.appgamekit.com/
 

MrWhitefolks

Neo Member
LocoMrPollock said:
Are you on an old system or using a 20gig HDD? Sometimes they crash for no apparent reason, in my experience anyway.

Sittin pretty with a year old white system and a 120gig, good sir. :D
 
Kafel said:
wtf people

click the PPPPPPPPP link and watch the video

Can it be played one player? Never much a fan of co-op games where you're both controlling one person, just gets confusing. It'd be even worse in a voice activated game where you cant yell "press x now!"

I'll try it out if it works with Kinect's mic (it should since Kinect can act as a "headset").
 

Feep

Banned
floatstarpx said:
XACT's pretty easy, imo - it's pretty much just one call to play a sound.. and it's a lot nicer having that pipeline there, ability to mix the audio in the XACT tool, change all the compression settings in one place (rather than having to recompress each file, etc..), all your looping and category info (for custom soundtracks etc.) in there, also.. for things like footsteps, we can have multiple samples all on the same cue - so we can have it automatically switch between 4 random footstep samples as the player walks, for example.. I can't get enough of that XACT goodness ;)

edit: ps, Feep - you got a website? I read all this stuff about the size of your game but somehow missed link? I wanna see what you're working on!!!
Yessir.

www.playiridium.com

Trailer and such = D
 

TripleBGames

Neo Member
toythatkills said:
It's bizarre, in a way. Do they get money from anywhere else? With mo-cap and everything it can't have been cheap to develop, so I'm massively curious as to the kind of sales they're getting to keep releasing new editions.

Apparently they have 160,000 fans on Facebook :/

Nope, we're self funded - we sold over 40k copies of CL2010 which has funded development of CL2011, and yes we do have 160k+ fans on facebook, come join us http://www.facebook.com/collegelacrosse or the much more exclusive http://www.facebook.com/TripleBGames :)
 
TripleBGames said:
Nope, we're self funded - we sold over 40k copies of CL2010 which has funded development of CL2011, and yes we do have 160k+ fans on facebook, come join us http://www.facebook.com/collegelacrosse or the much more exclusive http://www.facebook.com/TripleBGames :)
Congrats, those are some pretty amazing figures. I guess being the only Lacrosse videogame in the world is pretty lucrative!

I should start work on an Aussie Rules Football game.
 

TripleBGames

Neo Member
toythatkills said:
Congrats, those are some pretty amazing figures. I guess being the only Lacrosse videogame in the world is pretty lucrative!

I should start work on an Aussie Rules Football game.

I wouldn't recommend it on xblig - they aren't for sale in Oz!
 

SmallCaveGames

Neo Member
That's the right idea though if $ success is key to you. (or if you have an interest in those things already)

There are some strong sleeper "hits" from devs who carve out little niches like poker, foosballs, trivia, drumming, biking etc.

Not my cup of tea honestly, but it's a good way of narrowing focus on hitting a target market effectively. Also easier to market it.
 

nli10

Member
Trumpets said:
I'm still waiting for a Kabaddi videogame.

kabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddikabaddi

Kinect compatible that can detect your breathing would be ace.
 
First time I have looked at Major Nelsons LIVE Activity for week, (February 7)
http://majornelson.com/archive/2011/02/15/live-activity-for-week-of-february-7.aspx

Top Indie Games (Full Versions purchased)

1 Voice Changer 360
2 Bird Assassin
3 Toy Stunt Bike
4 Avatar Paintball
5 Baby Maker Extreme 2
6 Avatar Laser Wars
7 The Impossible Game
8 Avatar Ninja!
9 I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1
10 Miner Dig Deep
11 Nuclear Wasteland
12 College Lacrosse 2011
13 Avatar Karting
14 M2AF: Message 2 All Friends
15 Beer Pong
16 Get Rich or Die Gaming
17 Avatar Drop
18 Avatar Ragdolls
19 Zombie Turkey Outbreak
20 ZP2KX: Zombies & Pterodactyls!

Take it he does this every week?
 
Family Fry said:
First time I have looked at Major Nelsons LIVE Activity for week, (February 7)
http://majornelson.com/archive/2011/02/15/live-activity-for-week-of-february-7.aspx

Top Indie Games (Full Versions purchased)

1 Voice Changer 360
2 Bird Assassin
3 Toy Stunt Bike
4 Avatar Paintball
5 Baby Maker Extreme 2
6 Avatar Laser Wars
7 The Impossible Game
8 Avatar Ninja!
9 I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1
10 Miner Dig Deep
11 Nuclear Wasteland
12 College Lacrosse 2011
13 Avatar Karting
14 M2AF: Message 2 All Friends
15 Beer Pong
16 Get Rich or Die Gaming
17 Avatar Drop
18 Avatar Ragdolls
19 Zombie Turkey Outbreak
20 ZP2KX: Zombies & Pterodactyls!

Take it he does this every week?

I think he got lazy and switched to every other week a few months back.
 
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