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xbox one 1080p captures with and without filter (thanks Gizmowned)

All I know is, my games when scaled to 1080p have crushed blacks and a sharpening effect applied to them. When I set it to 720p output it doesn't do it. It has more natural colors and no over excessive sharpening or darkened blacks. This also only happens on X1 and not PS4 or Wii U. Forza which is native 1080p doesn't do it. Ryse doesn't do it. (Crytek used their own scaler). But seemingly it's my tvs fault. Better accept it.

I find it strange that setting 720p solves the issue but 1080p scaled shows it. And yet it's my TVs fault.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. When the Xbox One is set to 1080p, the game uses the very poor upscaling that results in crushed blacks and sharpening. When set to 720p your TV is applying it's own upscaling which wouldn't result in the same poor image quality. Who suggested that it's your TV causing the problem?

Also, the images on the right only really do a good job of highlighting black crush if they are stripped of their post processing effects.
 

|ync

Member
This experiment was obviously not successful in isolating the effects of the scaler. You can see bloom in the left images that aren't in the right image (dude's shoulder in the character select one is an obvious example). Which means it's impossible to tell what differences are due to missing shaders/filters and what is from the scaler.

Actually, what is the source on "The pictures on the right are exactly the same frame but when going back to or from the dash so no scaler is being used." What makes you think the scaler is not being used when flipping back to the dash?
 

Mononoke

Banned
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. When the Xbox One is set to 1080p, the game uses the very poor upscaling that results in crushed blacks and sharpening. When set to 720p your TV is applying it's own upscaling which wouldn't result in the same poor image quality. Who suggested that it's your TV causing the problem?

Also, the images on the right only really do a good job of highlighting black crush if they are stripped of their post processing effects.

I was replying to the gaffers that keep telling me it's not the scaler but my tvs calibration that is causing the crushed blacks.

Edit: my post was wrong. I misunderstood what was said to me.
 

evilalien

Member
Neither set of images are unfiltered as claimed. Here is a zoomed in view of the pair of images with Sabrewulf filling most of the frame. There is clear evidence of halos from oversharpening in both images which means that the right side images are not entirely unmolested.

i5qqgiHGrCD5r.png

iSqm2W29NQpwq.png
 

pixlexic

Banned
This experiment was obviously not successful in isolating the effects of the scaler. You can see bloom in the left images that aren't in the right image (dude's shoulder in the character select one is an obvious example). Which means it's impossible to tell what differences are due to missing shaders/filters and what is from the scaler.

Actually, what is the source on "The pictures on the right are exactly the same frame but when going back to or from the dash so no scaler is being used." What makes you think the scaler is not being used when flipping back to the dash?


the glow is a post process filter. the "clean" image is pulled from the frame buffer before post . and it looks like is being scaled down in resolution for the os menu.

A lot of applications that do similar things do it the exact same way.
 

Darknight

Member
I always thought fighting games were easy to make in the graphics department due to only 2 characters on screen....yea way to prove me wrong MS. Its exclusive to boot, damn.

Edit: of yea, sorry RARE didnt have anything to do with it. Shame.
 
MS will fix with a simple patch and we'll all move on.

I am genuinely curious to see if MS change this. The crush / saturation are simply the XBox look, following on from the 360, so you have to figure they'll be there forever. But that sharpening? Yikes.

Going by the changes Dice made to BF4, and Ryse, there are workarounds. Is it simply a case that devs can choose not to use the hardware and do it themselves [in software] or does the hardware allow the dev to choose settings themselves?
 

old

Member
Would like some way to disable the filter. I hate crushed blacks. What if you set your Xbox One to output 720p? Does that disable the filter?
 

|ync

Member
the glow is a post process filter. the "clean" image is pulled from the frame buffer before post . and it looks like is being scaled down in resolution for the os menu.

A lot of applications that do similar things do it the exact same way.

Wait, are you saying they apply post processing filters after the scaler has done it's work? Because I assumed the scaler was the last step.

What looks like it is being scaled down in resolution? I thought these were both 1080p shots?

Edit: I think I understand what you're saying now, that the right images haven't got post processing on them because the os grabbed it from the frame buffer, and the assertion is that the os is scaling it up in software as part of it's own drawing routines (since the os runs natively at 1080p). That makes sense, but still doesn't tell us what differences are from the scaler and what are from the missing post processing.

Are there identical shots of a 1080p image and an image from the console forced to 720p? Presumably the 720p image wouldn't go through the scaler (or would it?), and so if the black crush etc are missing from that then we can say it's the scalers fault
 

QaaQer

Member
Neither set of images are unfiltered as claimed. Here is a zoomed in view of the pair of images with Sabrewulf filling most of the frame. There is clear evidence of halos from oversharpening in both images which means that the right side images are not entirely unmolested.

i5qqgiHGrCD5r.png

iSqm2W29NQpwq.png

Or filter sharpening on top of game engine sharpening.
 
Has anyone compared this to the PS4 injustice port yet? because while ijustice doesn't have anything close to the graphical effects or color, it has a damn more less jaggies to my eyes.

KI is still a better game or rather demo of one though
 

abracadaver

Member
In this direct comparison I prefer the upscaled/sharpened pictures. Colours look better to me and there is way less aliasing.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Wait, are you saying they apply post processing filters after the scaler has done it's work? Because I assumed the scaler was the last step.

What looks like it is being scaled down in resolution? I thought these were both 1080p shots?

no.. the differences in the two images. not the final game image..

gizmondo is grabbing the "CLEAN" image as they hit the home button. meaning the image they are calling clean is not a true game image before the filter is added. its not even the same resolution.
 

Riky

$MSFT
I'm playing on a 50" Panny Plasma about 6 feet away and game looks great, I don't know what res Injustice runs on PS4 but KI looks loads better.
 
The ones on the right look much worse! They have no Black at all. It looks the same way they have the TV's set when you walk into a store to buy one. Yuck!
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
All I know is KI looks about 10,000% better than that in person.
 

Bedlam

Member
This is some crazy shit MS pulled there. I almost sure they did it so the Xbone versions would look more vivid and colorful at first glance in the inevitable comparisons. You can already see such comments on IGN and other sites where uninformed casuals gather ... "but the Xbone version has better colors!"

For shame, MS.
 

|ync

Member
no.. the differences in the two images. not the final game image..

gizmondo is grabbing the "CLEAN" image as they hit the home button. meaning the image they are calling clean is not a true game image before the filter is added. its not even the same resolution.

Thanks, I edited my reply once I reread your post. But what do you mean the images aren't the same resolution? I thought the assertion was that they were both unmodified captures at 1080p?
 
I'm playing on a 50" Panny Plasma about 6 feet away and game looks great, I don't know what res Injustice runs on PS4 but KI looks loads better.

I wouldn't say that at all. I would say that that KI looks far more colourful and ironically enough, like a "fighting game".

but in terms of image quality, Injustice at holds up pretty well and is far cleaner.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Thanks, I edited my reply once I reread your post. But what do you mean the images aren't the same resolution? I thought the assertion was that they were both unmodified captures at 1080p?

when you hit home the os pulls the last drawn frame buffer and redraws it in a lower resolution so it doe not take so long to draw and doesn't bog down the ui.

That is why the aliasing looks so bad in the "clean" image. its no where near 720p.
its also why the other image AA looks better.
 

quetz67

Banned
The ones on the right look much worse! They have no Black at all. It looks the same way they have the TV's set when you walk into a store to buy one. Yuck!

Yep! Some of the walls in the back look super washed out when the area should be dark to have a nice distribution of brightness over the whole image.
 

QaaQer

Member
when you hit home the os pulls the last drawn frame buffer and redraws it in a lower resolution so it doe not take so long to draw and doesn't bog down the ui.

That is why the aliasing looks so bad in the "clean" image. its no where near 720p.
its also why the other image AA looks better.

how do you determine resolution from a screen grab? just curious.
 

pixlexic

Banned
how do you determine resolution from a screen grab? just curious.

look at the images at the top of this page. There is no magical AA filter that can make the bottom image turn into the top image..

Plus again this same trick has been used in every other application that does the same thing.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Now that we're comparing the available options on a single platform, I find myself not bothered by the applied AA. On the other hand that jacked up contrast (and weirdly added bloom) are over the top. I wish there was a way to choose one but not the other. I'd have to compare both on a big TV display to really choose between enabling/disabling it.
 

QaaQer

Member
look at the images at the top of this page. There is no magical AA filter that can make the bottom image turn into the top image..

Plus again this same trick has been used in every other application that does the same thing.

so is Izayoi wrong when he wrote:

It looks like some form of FXAA. Real AA is not being applied, as the step count on all edges is identical.

Compare his headband in these two images:

http://i1.minus.com/ibbly73f7uecIZ.png
http://i6.minus.com/ibjlCoWX6gxGXY.png

Stairs are identical. It's hard to see on some other edges, but it you look closely, you can see that the stair count across the entire image remains unchanged.

If I weren't at work I'd fire up an image editor and point out some of the more obvious spots.
 

Pachinko

Member
Going by those comparison shots it almost looks as if Double Helix was aware of what that filter would do and brightened up the games output to compensate.

Think about it like this- what sort of HDTV do most people have today ? That's right , probably a 300-500$ 32-40 inch LCD that has trouble displaying a nice contrast ratio , especially on the darker end. So having a filter that makes all those "invisible greys" (invisible to the widest TV audience) go to black doesn't actually do much to the image for that same typical TV owner.

On these forums you have many people that spent 800+ $ on a new TV in the last couple years and even on the LCD front , gimmicks with local dimming and LED backlights have allowed a more accurate color reproduction , so people on places such as neogaf , we can see all the differences between the normal and filtered image. Especially if you have a plasma TV.

Basically, the non filtered image just looks like the gamma is set a wee bit too high. Does the game have an internal adjustment for that ? If not, then turning the brightness on your TV down just a bit would probably remove that washed out look. Otherwise you can settle for the MS uber dark filter. Going by these screenshots I'd almost settle for that if I couldn't get a better image out of the 720p mode.
 
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