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[Baby Milo]

SOMEONE OPEN A BOYCOTT THREAD, NOW !

get #boycottMS trending during there E3 presentation

 

[swordsman720]

If Sony follows suit, console crash confirmed.

Consoles =x1 and ps4

 

[~Kinggi~]

I think all of the policies they announced are logical extensions of the fact that this is a digital-only console. The "retail" titles, such as they are, are like Steamworks games. It's not a retail+digital console, it's a digital-only console. I mean, imagine if a competitor to Steam popped up that had all of these policies. It'd be fairly standard--in some respect forward-thinking (being able to transfer a game you own to a friend, even once, is better than what Steam has right now; being able to trade in at select retailers is better than what Steam has now for both the retailer and the customer), in other respects a little behind the curve (offline mode being a 24 hour limit) I don't personally have a problem with digital only, I've got 600 games on Steam. And I'm generally a pretty future-proof kind of guy, none of my computers have optical drives anymore. I use Dropbox for everything. I love tablets I'm not someone who typically needs to be encouraged to adopt new tech or who worries about trading off the stability of current options for the cutting edge of new options.

But here are the problems:
1) No one views these policies as an advantage in any digital-only platform. They're a necessary evil. And they're one that's overcome with sweeteners. One sweetener is pricing. In Steam that's manifested in a few ways--frequent and steep sales on the whole catalogue, and the ability for developers to produce unlimited keys for free (and thus for third party resellers to sacrifice margin for volume and offer discounts). Will Xbox One games be $35 to pre-order? Will they drop to $5 within 6 months? I doubt it.

2) Digital-only PC platforms emerged in response to the decline of retail. Retail has not declined for consoles. It's still there. The Xbox One's direct competitors will have retail space. And the direct competitors will not necessarily have these policies. Maybe Microsoft ends up correctly predicting the future and riding the wave in advance, but it seems like Microsoft's competitors are healthy enough that this is too much too soon.

3) There exists no digital-only platform that requires an ongoing membership fee (or that encourages an ongoing membership fee). Ongoing membership fees tend to be for unlimited, all-access type services like Netflix--or even in the more limited form, Playstation Plus, or discount programs like Amazon Prime or Costco membership. It's true that Gold exists today, but today there's a platform that doesn't necessarily need the kind of sweeteners that the One will need.

So, I guess my conclusion is that given that we now know that Xbox One is a digital-only, not digital-first system, the policies are fairly unremarkable and the next question becomes how Microsoft will blunt these inherent limitations of digital-only systems and show advantages.

Stop.Comparing.This.To.Steam.NOW.

Steam users accept a universal application to run their library for a lot of reasons.

1) No awful DRM. You have to be online to download the game of course but after that feel free to take as much time as you want to play the game online or offline.

2) STEAM SALES! This is probably the biggest point. There is a sale literally ever other day with games 50% off, 60% off or 75% off, then we have the Summer sales, Fall Sales, Spring sales, Halloween sales, Holiday sales where you can find 10-20-30 games 50-75% off on even NEW RELEASES. We accept the ability to not trade in our games for the fact that we can buy Farcry 3 for $15 New months ago.

Xmen Wolverine Origins is still $30 on XBL! CMON people. This aint the same.

Edit: Forgot to say, the PC Used game market before Steam was pretty much shit too, unlike the Console used market.

Oh my! Logic overload!

 

[Htown]

My favorite thing about the whole PC comparison is that PC gaming has actually been moving in a less restrictive direction over the last few years. Microsoft is going in the opposite direction.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why did MS confirm this? What the hell are they thinking? They keep laying out the cards like amateurs here.

Pride is a hell of a drug.

 

[DC R1D3R]

Ohhh hell naaaaaw! What if you unplug it? Will you get banned? What If you're moving :O

Pray to god and run Hard.

 

[SlowRevolution]

All the time. Never took my xbox with me. 3DS, laptop, deck of cards, pen and paper, and the list goes on. Who travels with their xbox unless it's a tournament of some kind or lan party? And in that case there would be internet anyway.

and the people who live in areas with bad internet should just move. why on earth would they live there?

 

[digoutyoursoul]

It's fucking sad that less than a week from E3 we have to spend more time worrying about how much our consumer rights are being trampled on and less time getting excited about video games.

This. It's awful to be honest. I love gaming and I've never known a E3 build up like this

 

[Tashi]

SOMEONE OPEN A BOYCOTT THREAD, NOW !

But there are already so many XBO threads...

 

[AgentP]

-Sharing all your games among 10 people = amazing. I can see 10 of my gaming friends and I working out a system of who buys what. That's 9 less games we each have to buy. Makes up for the lack of trade-in.

Keep dreaming, MS isn't doing all this so they can sell 1/10 the number of games.

 

[Gotchaye]

So if I am reading this correctly. It is possible for my friend and I to create a "family" account and simply split the cost of a 60 dollar game.

That actually might not be so bad. However besides that, I'm not liking the other stuff (24 hour login,etc)

No. There will be more limitations than that. MS isn't stupid and they're not going to let 10 people split the cost of Halo 5 and then all play it together just because they claim to be family. Best-case, only one person will be able to play a particular game at a time.

 

[Giran]

So publishers get to decide whether people get to resell stuff at all. But the potentially interesting part is where it says that "Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers." From the wording it seems possible that while Microsoft doesn't charge anything, publishers might. So even if say for example EA allows you to resell your game, they could possibly charge a new owner and call it a transfer fee or reactivation fee and until they shell that out they only have a piece of useless plastic.

 

[lenovox1]

I'd be very curious to learn what are Nintendo's thoughts about this clusterfuck since May 21.

We probably won't find out until their next financial conference, because didn't Iwata say that he wasn't going to be at E3?

 

[Suikoguy]

People defending the online connection are forgetting about the soldiers overseas and rural areas who can't access the cloud or are limited.

I mean, I have to use Hughesnet which has a daily limit. Not to mention is satellite.

After hurricane Charley here in Southwest Florida, some Comcast customers were without internet for months.

 

[Kusagari]

Over 70% of Xbox 360 owners use Live. What's wrong with "24 hour check-in"?

What is the supposed correlation between that percentage and always online suddenly being okay?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

All the time. Never took my xbox with me. 3DS, laptop, deck of cards, pen and paper, and the list goes on. Who travels with their xbox unless it's a tournament of some kind or lan party? And in that case there would be internet anyway.

Ah yes. The, "I don't do it, so why in GOD'S NAME would anyone else ever have a reason to do it???" argument.

I have no further questions, your Honor.

 

[eznark]

Over 70% of Xbox 360 owners use Live. What's wrong with "24 hour check-in"?

Don't be coy, tell us the exact number.

 

[falconzss]

This is like watching the biggest train wreck in history.

I can't stop looking. And just before E3, too. How the hell is Microsoft gonna get out of that hole!?

I'm honestly more worried about them succeeding with this bullshit than them getting out.

 

[Rubezh]

Over 70% of Xbox 360 owners use Live. What's wrong with "24 hour check-in"?

The problem is that you're a shill account.

 

[Platinum_D]

This is Turrible ((Charles Barkleys voice)) lol

 

[Barack Lesnar]

How reasonable, make sure to post a variant of it every few pages.

Wow, could that guy get anymore obvious. He just registered this month too and those were his 3rd and 4th posts. Someone light the bish signal.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

My mind is reeling considering the back end database design that would have to be built to accommodate such a convoluted system. This whole thing is going to be a shitshow for the first year after launch.

 

[Cynar]

It's fucking sad that less than a week from E3 we have to spend more time worrying about how much our consumer rights are being trampled on and less time getting excited about video games.

That is what is killing me. This used to be an awesome time for our hobby and now we have to worry about companies being dicks trying to abuse our rights. They're truly appalling. They said that they're listening and this website just proves they didn't listen to a damn thing.

 

[mightynine]

Playing devil's advocate, because I hate to see the overreaction:

-I can almost guarantee they will work out rental deals with redbox, blockbuster, gamefly, etc. They would be foolish to leave money on the table.

-Put a piece of tape over the kinect sensor if you don't want MS to see you in your underwear. It's not like they'll be recording you on some server. relax.

-24 hours of offline play: If your internet is down for more than 24 hours get a new provider. My PC is always online and that's where I game the most. You're not taking the xbox out of your house to go camping so what is the problem?

-You can still trade a game to a friend. Once it's theirs, who cares what happens to it next. And there will still be avenues to sell your games. Amazon, gamestop, CeX... they'll all be there.

-Sharing all your games among 10 people = amazing. I can see 10 of my gaming friends and I working out a system of who buys what. That's 9 less games we each have to buy. Makes up for the lack of trade-in.[/IMG]

Man, I love all this PLANNING I get to do now to play a video game! My live was too simple when I just had to press power, insert disc, and press play! Now I have an ACTIVE lifestyle! Thanks Microsoft!

 

[jett]

Playing devil's advocate, because I hate to see the overreaction:

-I can almost guarantee they will work out rental deals with redbox, blockbuster, gamefly, etc. They would be foolish to leave money on the table.

What money? As far I understand it 100% of rentals goes to the rental store.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

 

[weekend_warrior]

Another shill bites the dust.

FordGTGuy

 

[Yawnier]

It's fucking sad that less than a week from E3 we have to spend more time worrying about how much our consumer rights are being trampled on and less time getting excited about video games.

Somewhat relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlL09nriFfk

 

[ironcreed]

It's fucking sad that less than a week from E3 we have to spend more time worrying about how much our consumer rights are being trampled on and less time getting excited about video games.

I have been beyond ecstatic for a PS4, as they have been hitting all the right notes thus far. But even without a mandatory camera or an always online requirement, it stands to reason that the 'publisher approved' policies with used games at 'participating retailers' will be the exactly the same. There will be no difference here, therefore, no renting or loaning games from publishers who enforce such policies on either system. That is what I am expecting.

 

[GravityMan]

I'm glad the guillotine fell on RyanReedyMusic. Loathed his posting style from day 1.

On topic...I'll just say that I agree with the majority sentiment here. The "giving to a friend only once" thing is especially messed up.

 

[Jake Tower]

I literally hate Microsoft so much now that I never want to give them money in any way again. This means despite owning an Xbox 360, I will not buy any new games for it ever again.

I also now want to learn about installing and using Linux so I can forever discard Microsoft from my home computing needs.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Great post.

Agreed. My big question is how is it possible Xbox One will see sales similar to Steam or digital-only platforms when there is still a large retail market for games? Isn't the whole reason we see articfically inflated prices on Xbox 360 On Demand games because they can't risk undercutting and pissing off retailers? Do you think they'll really get away with having like Steam Weekend sales or random 65 percent off sales without pissing off retailers and or forcing them to price match? Can you imagine the look on the Best Buy or Walmart manager's face if you walked in and said you wanted them to price match some 24-hour 80-percent off deal on Xbox One On Demand?

 

[thepotatoman]

The true reason comparisons to Steam are idiotic is because unlike the console side, the PC retail market is virtually dead.

And for good reason. If you buy a PC cd without internet connected DRM, you could litterally take that CD and let every single person you know install the game and play it as much as they want. This is because PCs are open systems with open operating systems and there is no other good DRM without an internet connected profile of some sort. Why would a used market exist if you could buy and sell a game over the course of one day and still get to play it as long as you want.

Obviously that is not easily possible with an closed console, which has an operating system and hardware that can make sure a disk is not copyable like on the PC.

 

[KotorFanboy]

Playing devil's advocate, because I hate to see the overreaction:

-I can almost guarantee they will work out rental deals with redbox, blockbuster, gamefly, etc. They would be foolish to leave money on the table.

-Put a piece of tape over the kinect sensor if you don't want MS to see you in your underwear. It's not like they'll be recording you on some server. relax.

-24 hours of offline play: If your internet is down for more than 24 hours get a new provider. My PC is always online and that's where I game the most. You're not taking the xbox out of your house to go camping so what is the problem?

-You can still trade a game to a friend. Once it's theirs, who cares what happens to it next. And there will still be avenues to sell your games. Amazon, gamestop, CeX... they'll all be there.

-Sharing all your games among 10 people = amazing. I can see 10 of my gaming friends and I working out a system of who buys what. That's 9 less games we each have to buy. Makes up for the lack of trade-in.

Not an overreaction.

Once I buy the product, I should have free reign on what I do with the product. I dont want anyone telling me how to use my product. I want to take it to Afghanistan or the North pole, I should be able to. I want to give away my games to a stranger I should be able to. A piece of paper on Kinect won't stop it from hearing everything in the background. Plus it has to be Kinnected at all times, WHY?

 

[Jawmuncher]

People defending the online connection are forgetting about the soldiers overseas and rural areas who can't access the cloud or are limited.

I mean, I have to use Hughesnet which has a daily limit. Not to mention is satellite.

I forgot that MS said they have a plan for soldoers. Though that could've just been PR talk. Not to mention if a Xbox One can be used in that environment....why can't all ones be that way?

 

[Sargex]

-I take my xbox on vacation all the time. At night I hook it up and play it before hitting the hay. Can't do that anymore. As I said before there are troops overseas who don't have a stable internet connection. That means no Xbone. 31 million consumers never hook up their consoles. They just threw away 31 million sales. Troops overseas, that is a fair argument. Got nothing for that one.

-I let my friends borrow games all the time. Now I can only give it away and once it is gone I have to repurchase the game if I still want to play. I just wanted my friend to try a new game! If you can share with 10 people this is a moot point.

-Same IP address most likely. So unless all your friends live in the same house you will have find another exploit. Speculative. Their post says up to 10 people on their XBONE. 10 XBONEs in the same house and there is something wrong with your household.

Replies in bold.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

"Bish sends his regards."

Game. Set. Match.

 

[dose]

Some of the sharing stuff across multiple consoles is nice since you don't have to actually take the game to a friends house.

But instead you'll have to wait several hours for the game to download. Sounds great.

 

[Lunar15]

Whether I agree or disagree with the policies is kind of irrelevant to me right now.

It's just that there's so many damn conditions and clauses to play a freaking video game. So many asterisks and footnotes. It's like making a public park and then telling everyone they can't walk on the grass. And as Patrick put it, I just don't know what we're getting in return yet. Are we getting lower prices? Are we getting better quality? Are we getting new experiences? I don't know yet, so I won't bother to try it out until I do know.

 

[Zeroth]

Are people really being banned for defending MS's Xbone policies? I mean, I think it's utter bullshit, but I don't really think people should be banned for saying "it's not that bad guys!" if that's how they feel...

Microsoft is well know for paying people to post positive stuff about their products disguised as "just a normal consumer". GAF had plenty of them, Bishoptl thought about making a thread with all the recent users who joined and have an email linked to agencies that promote this, but decided against it. This is just GAF keeping out the (paid) shills.

 

[Baller. PhD]

SOMEONE OPEN A BOYCOTT THREAD, NOW !

Registered.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Over 70% of Xbox 360 owners use Live. What's wrong with "24 hour check-in"?

Like weeds.

Another shill bites the dust.

FordGTGuy

I don't think he was a shill, just an overzealous fan of the Xbox.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

People defending the online connection are forgetting about the soldiers overseas and rural areas who can't access the cloud or are limited.

I mean, I have to use Hughesnet which has a daily limit. Not to mention is satellite.

Aaron Greenberg on GamerTag Radio " They would be better off with Xbox 360"

 

[PanicFreak]

Thats anecdotal evidence at best and a horrible assumption at worst

Anecdotal? The proof is in the pudding. Despite all the amazing exclusive games, customer friendly policies, an online service that provides excellent value, and a weak yen that helped its causes, their margins on that business are pathetically low.

They could invest in US Treasury debt and do better. A billion a year in subscriptions would surely help...

It's not anecdotal. It's a hypothesis.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

So if I am reading this correctly. It is possible for my friend and I to create a "family" account and simply split the cost of a 60 dollar game.

That actually might not be so bad. However besides that, I'm not liking the other stuff (24 hour login,etc)

I don't think so as it reads to me like only one person on the family account can be logged in and playing ANY of the games in the library at the same time.

I think it's more just a way for family members to each have their own Live account, gamertag, etc. and be able to play any of the games in the library. Vs. each needing a paid live account or a more expensive family account to do so like this generation.

 

[Despera]

I have a question on the "share your games with 10 people" bit. Once I choose the 10 accounts as "family members", can I then switch some of 'em out for other accounts?

Are these accounts fixed and unchangeable forever, since your family members probably won't be changing. Or are they only fixed for a certain amount of time?

 

[jschreier]

You've undeniably been great on this issue. But you should write another article about the issues with all this. Fahey wrote something about the Kinect stuff and basically said everything's fine when it's really not, at all.

Luke has got you covered. http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-one-just-had-a-very-bad-day-511766497

 

[Randolph Freelander]

30%

Get out of here with math.

 

[xxracerxx]

Over 70% of Xbox 360 owners use Live. What's wrong with "24 hour check-in"?

Really dude? Jesus christ, the amount of blinders here is amazing.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Whole thing seems like a stop gap move to please the retailers until they can get their shit together in the next-next generation when everything goes all digital.

 

[KorrZ]

Just finally looked into this....

Get fucked Microsoft. I will never buy their console while they have such bullshit policies in place. Same goes for Sony. Depending on what Sony does... this may be the generation where I abandon consoles entirely in favour of pc. Which is a shame, because I love playing on consoles.