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[Shadow Broker]

Ultimately depends on how well the XBone X sells.

The PS4 Pro is just a mid generation release meant to help Sony extend this gens life span but it seems to be selling good.

The XBone X seems to be what next gen may have been if it started this year or next year. Maybe the XBone X represents what would've been a next gen console or the next generations XBone where it spec's are on the lower side like how the XBone was the weaker console at the beginning of this gen.

If the XBone X sells like pancakes and puts Microsoft back into the thick of things this gen I expect Sony to adopt a similar approach with the PS5 and do away with Console generations. Which would suck in my opinion.

If it flops... I think Microsoft future as a console maker would be grim.

 

[oldergamer]

Little to no benefit? You're crazy. How is better performance not an improvement?

Imo that is a marginal difference where the improvement is subjective. Some people don't notice dropped frames or can't tell the difference between 35 fps and 50 fps. It's also not the kind of difference that can be shown with screen shots.

With X1 you get:

1. better frame rate in all games
2. better texture image quality on all games
3. Antialiasing on all games that are dynamic resolution

+ a few other smaller differences.Slightly better frame rate isn't the biggest noticeable leap out of those items I'm sure you would agree.

Sony would have done better waiting an extra year and making the gap between pro and vanilla PS4 bigger. This is why Sony jumped the gun.

 

[Nightengale]

Ultimately depends on how well the XBone X sells.

The PS4 Pro is just a mid generation release meant to help Sony extend this gens life span but it seems to be selling good.

The XBone X seems to be what next gen may have been if it started this year or next year. Maybe the XBone X represents what would've been a next gen console or the next generations XBone where it spec's are on the lower side like how the XBone was the weaker console at the beginning of this gen.

If the XBone X sells like pancakes and puts Microsoft back into the thick of things this gen I expect Sony to adopt a similar approach with the PS5 and do away with Console generations. Which would suck in my opinion.

If it flops... I think Microsoft future as a console maker would be grim.

The reason it's an Xbox One and not an Xbox *something else* is because it's not a new gen.

MS has reiterated over and over since last year that Scorpio is part of the Xbox One family of products. There are those who insist MS was lying and that was secretly purporting a new gen, but the fact that Scorpio runs on a Jaguar chip and is still called an Xbox One showed they weren't lying ,and those who refused to believe so were just deluding themselves.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Do you have a source for this?

Didn't Eurogamer report on MS looking into DDR4 for a new Xbox console way before Shu's comment of a mid-generation refresh? After that was Phil's comment on a mid-gen console, and then all the PS4 Pro stuff from Osiris happened, then the Giant Bomb and Eurogamer Pro stories followed by Kotaku and Polygon Scorpio stories with Scorpio being announced before the Pro. That's the timeline I remember at least. To me it looks like neither console was reactionary to the other.

Edit: Here is the DDR4 story. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...aper-cooler-xbox-one-processor-in-development

 

[Neuromancer]

Straight from the horse's mouth.

I believe it was phil that said the Xbox One is beyond generations.

Phil says a lot of things.

 

[wesleyshark]

Consumers for willing to buy into this shit instead of just building a pc that does more for less. Don't blame the corporations for your own stupidity.

Good luck trying to build a PC that's cheaper the One X that will give you the same performance and reliability.

 

[EvB]

Didn't Eurogamer report on MS looking into DDR4 for a new Xbox console way before Shu's comment of a mid-generation refresh? After that was Phil's comment on a mid-gen console, and then all the PS4 Pro stuff from Osiris happened, then the Giant Bomb and Eurogamer Pro stories followed by Kotaku and Polygon Scorpio stories with Scorpio being announced before the Pro. That's the timeline I remember at least. To me it looks like neither console was reactionary to the other.

The big talk about it started here with Phil Spencer talking about new hardware capability

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339

Have a read, there is no real common understanding in that thread that Sony was doing anything even vaguely similar.

The assumption with Sony was that PSVR would come with some kind of breakout box with processing that made up for the vanilla PS4's limit

 

[Shadow Broker]

The reason it's an Xbox One and not an Xbox *something else* is because it's not a new gen.

MS has reiterated over and over since last year that Scorpio is part of the Xbox One family of products. There are those who insist MS was lying and that was secretly purporting a new gen, but the fact that Scorpio runs on a Jaguar chip and is still called an Xbox One showed they weren't lying ,and those who refused to believe so were just deluding themselves.

I won't lie and flat out tell you I don't know all the details. I don't follow anything Microsoft gaming honestly and I don't do it because of some dumb fanboy reason. The console and the games they make for those console simply doesn't interest me.

I could've sworn I heard or read here on Gaf that Microsoft was trying to do away with Console generations and that the Scorpio represented that. Guess I was wrong. I never meant that the Scorpio was their next gen console.

But ultimately I feel it depends on how well the XBone X sells to answer the OP'S question.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

The big talk about it started here with Phil Spencer talking about new hardware capability

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339

Have a read, there is no real common understanding in that thread that Sony was doing anything even vaguely similar.

The DDR4 Xbox story I posted goes way back before even that.

 

[Kayant]

Didn't Eurogamer report on MS looking into DDR3 for a new Xbox console way before Shu's comment of a mid-generation refresh? After that was Phil's comment on a mid-gen console, and then all the PS4 Pro stuff from Osiris happened, then the Giant Bomb and Eurogamer Pro stories followed by Kotaku and Polygon stories with Scorpio being announced before the Pro. That's the timeline I remember at least. To me it looks like neither console was reactionary to the other.

XB1 already uses DDR3 so that would be a bit weird. You probably forgetting something.

Am guessing you mean DDR4 in which case it was just pure speculation by Eurogamer and was about upcoming XB1s as we know today - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...aper-cooler-xbox-one-processor-in-development

Edit -

I see you found it also 😀

 

[SEGAvangelist]

XB1 already uses DDR3 so that would be a bit weird. You probably forgetting something.

Am guessing you mean DDR4 in which case it was just pure speculation by Eurogamer and was about upcoming XB1s as we know today - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...aper-cooler-xbox-one-processor-in-development

I corrected as you were posting.

 

[oldergamer]

Microsoft is also using the cell phone model of new hardware generations ( not every year ) but a set plan with how much R&D goes into the platforms for compatibility. Forwards compatibility is a big deal for consoles as we haven't seen this consistently accomplished. When you look at Apple, it took years before they dropped support for the iPhone 3/Ipad 1.

1st release base upgrade ( cheaper alternative )
2nd release custom improvements ( ultra expensive, but cost reduced over time until the next system )

Spreading these out every four or years ( which is what I'm expecting ) with all software being forward compatible. No more individual hardware generations and they are locking their competition into the leap frog race.

With the advantage that they have planning a little bit better on how to handle the software going forwards ( total hardware abstraction ). It's going to be easier for them to switch to new hardware platforms or architectures. Also it's pretty cool they can support 360 & Xbox OG as a side note.

 

[ethomaz]

It doesnt take long to start shitting up MS lately does it?

Wut?

X doesn't have exclusives games that can't be played on XB1.
Pro doesn't have exclusives games that can't be played on PS4.

His comment was on point and for both.

 

[EvB]

The DDR4 Xbox story I posted goes way back before even that.

So it does.

 

[TheExecutive]

You're stating the obvious.

I said the Xbox has console exclusives.

Whereas PS4/Pro has platform exclusives.



Almost every major third party game is checkerboarded on the Xbox One X. Microsoft is mainly focusing on exclusive games to reach native 4K. Third party devs are free to do what they want.

The term console exclusive is a garbage marketing term that should die in a carpet fire. In the end, if you can play a game on a different piece of hardware it isn't fucking exclusive.

 

[SpartanN92]

Consumers for willing to buy into this shit instead of just building a pc that does more for less. Don't blame the corporations for your own stupidity.

This is bullshit. You cannot build an equivalent PC for less than Xbox One X so stop spreading that.

And it isn't "stupidity" some people just like having video game consoles and the ease of access that comes with that.

 

[EvB]

The term console exclusive is a garbage marketing term that should die in a carpet fire. In the end, if you can play a game on a different piece of hardware it isn't fucking exclusive.

So you are saying that by choosing not to make their games for PC, they are doing the world a favour?

 

[Kleegamefan]

If someone has a PS4 Pro and a good Win 10 PC, are there any games they can't play? What would someone game from owning a XoX if they already have those other two platforms?

Nintendo games. Other than that, you are covered

 

[Purest 78]

I think Sony is in a Better Position Pro is for people who wanted extra power. Sony can get the pro down to $350 this Holiday. I think X is also for people that wanted more power.

Problem is it'll launch at $500 with no real room for price drops this Holiday. If Sony gets the pro to $350, the $150 price difference Will be huge.

 

[Kayant]

The big talk about it started here with Phil Spencer talking about new hardware capability

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1192339

Have a read, there is no real common understanding in that thread that Sony was doing anything even vaguely similar.

The assumption with Sony was that PSVR would come with some kind of breakout box with processing that made up for the vanilla PS4's limit

There wouldn't be a need because a Sony exec already talked about the possibility of a mid gen refresh in October 2015. A lot of people forgot about that.

I corrected as you were posting.

Yh that was about the XB1s in reality not XB1X because that was about a die shrink which the XB1.

But yes I agree both had something along the lines of a mid-gen refresh on their roadmaps.

Edit - I was mistaken the DDR4 part was also from the LinkedIn post.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Microsoft is also using the cell phone model of new hardware generations ( not every year ) but a set plan with how much R&D goes into the platforms for compatibility. Forwards compatibility is a big deal for consoles as we haven't seen this consistently accomplished. When you look at Apple, it took years before they dropped support for the iPhone 3/Ipad 1.

1st release base upgrade ( cheaper alternative )
2nd release custom improvements ( ultra expensive, but cost reduced over time until the next system )

Spreading these out every four or years ( which is what I'm expecting ) with all software being forward compatible. No more individual hardware generations and they are locking their competition into the leap frog race.

With the advantage that they have planning a little bit better on how to handle the software going forwards ( total hardware abstraction ). It's going to be easier for them to switch to new hardware platforms or architectures. Also it's pretty cool they can support 360 & Xbox OG as a side note.

I'm betting that games will generally only be cross compatible only with the 2 newest consoles in the Xbox line so they can perpetuate the base vs. premium sales model when they release their next Xbox. Buying an X now would mean you'll likely be able to play new games on it for at least 6-8 years

 

[Shadow Broker]

The term console exclusive is a garbage marketing term that should die in a carpet fire. In the end, if you can play a game on a different piece of hardware it isn't fucking exclusive.

Hey friend,

I don't know the nature in your conversation but Console exclusive is the only one that makes sense to me and all the other exclusives like timed, launch exclusive (whatever the fuck that means), and such should die in a fucking fire!


If it's a console exclusive that means I either need a PC or to buy the console it's console exclusive on to play it.

Spoiler

Who comes up with this shit?

 

[Deku Tree]

It's very obvious that Sony announced a mid gen refresh and MS copied them with an interactive console. That's why they were one year later.

 

[EvB]

Yh that was about the XB1s in reality not XB1X because that was about a die shrink which the XB1.

But yes I agree both had something along the lines of a mid-gen refresh on their roadmaps.

The start of the article was about a die shrink, the 2nd part was about DDR4

 

[Jumeira]

Core gamers with high end gfx go for -> PC

Thats absolutely not true at all. Why do we all want new console then after a few years even though PC's will always be superior in power? Why does the chatter move to specs everytime we speculate new generations? Why does the talk of bleeding edge tech in consoles draw so much attention from core gamers? Most gamers are console gamers if we look at NA/JAP/EU markets, a significant portion of sales seen on NPD/ChartTrack show most sales being on consoles. Theres a substantial number of gamers that only game on consoles and so the range of options will always be what MS/Sony/Nintendo offer. They dont like or care for PC environment and will look towards to console manufacturers to provide powerful options to run thier games the best. Did you completely ignore the emphasis on power during launch of every console released? Theres a huge thirst for a console experience with high end graphics.

You just need to read this thread in regards to a large portion of Gaffers who dont want to game on PC and prefer consoles.

 

[wesleyshark]

It's very obvious that Sony announced a mid gen refresh and MS copied them with an interactive console. That's why they were one year later.

🤔

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I think Sony is in a Better Position Pro is for people who wanted extra power. Sony can get the pro down to $350 this Holiday. I think X is also for people that wanted more power.

Problem is it'll launch at $500 with no real room for price drops this Holiday. If Sony gets the pro to $350, the $150 price difference Will be huge.

I counter with the people who are in the market for an Xbox One X/Ps4 Pro (or PC equivalent) are not swayed by price. As one of those people, I purposely waited on the Pro until I could see the X1 and make my informed decision. $500is not that much money for the product. This ain't little Timmy's Christmas Gift. This is Little Timmy's Dad present to himself.

It's very obvious that Sony announced a mid gen refresh and MS copied them with an interactive console. That's why they were one year later.

This can't be a serious post, right? For everything thing the Xbox One X is not, it is one hell of an engineering marvel to put something that powerful, into a box that small.

 

[gamz]

I counter with the people who are in the market for an Xbox One X/Ps4 Pro (or PC equivalent) are not swayed by price. As one of those people, I purposely waited on the Pro until I could see the X1 and make my informed decision. $500is not that much money for the product. This ain't little Timmy's Christmas Gift. This is Little Timmy's Dad present to himself.

This.

People who wants this aren't going to be swayed by the price. Just like they weren't swayed by a 150 dollar controller.

As for the OP? We'll never know who thought of it first and what not.

 

[Shin]

This.

People who wants this aren't going to be swayed by the price. Just like they weren't swayed by a 150 dollar controller.

And that's why 1 of them is dumb and the other is smart, you're catering a certain demographic but putting out a half baked effort.
Price is not first priority for this group, it's what's in the box.

 

[Nightengale]

I counter with the people who are in the market for an Xbox One X/Ps4 Pro (or PC equivalent) are not swayed by price. As one of those people, I purposely waited on the Pro until I could see the X1 and make my informed decision. $500is not that much money for the product. This ain't little Timmy's Christmas Gift. This is Little Timmy's Dad present to himself.

You may be right, but it's clear that Sony doesn't believe that, which is why Pro was $399 and not a hypothetically more powerful $499 machine last year.

 

[oldergamer]

I'm betting that games will generally only be cross compatible only with the 2 newest consoles in the Xbox line so they can perpetuate the base vs. premium sales model when they release their next Xbox. Buying an X now would mean you'll likely be able to play new games on it for at least 6-8 years

There's no reason to expect that at all. That's why hardware abstraction is important. They are already making games for very different hardware compatible. Going back more than 8 years. I don't really see a basis for your assumption, but you are entitled to having a different opinion.

 

[Nightengale]

This.

People who wants this aren't going to be swayed by the price. Just like they weren't swayed by a 150 dollar controller.

As for the OP? We'll never know who thought of it first and what not.

Well, one day we'll know. Sooner or later we'll have insights and post-mortem on the product development story of the X/Pro, maybe once this gen ended, and based on the window of time when the conception started, we'll be able to guess who thought of it first.

The reality is, though, no "copy-cat" happened unless both companies are able to break the norms of hardware development cycle and shorten it by 12 months.

 

[Purest 78]

I counter with the people who are in the market for an Xbox One X/Ps4 Pro (or PC equivalent) are not swayed by price. As one of those people, I purposely waited on the Pro until I could see the X1 and make my informed decision. $500is not that much money for the product. This ain't little Timmy's Christmas Gift. This is Little Timmy's Dad present to himself.

I was talking about more mass market success. While I don't think either Will huge mass market success. If the pro is $150 cheaper it'll do much better imo.

 

[Kayant]

The start of the article was about a die shrink, the 2nd part was about DDR4

Noted. Still as even DF says it was about a typical console refresh not mid-gen console refresh.

It's very obvious that Sony announced a mid gen refresh and MS copied them with an interactive console. That's why they were one year later.

This is just a silly conclusion to come to.

Spoiler

If this isn't sarcasm

 

[JB1981]

It's not a bad thing. There's just little reason to own that console when you can buy pretty much every worthwhile game it has on PC anyway.

Yea but a lot of people don't play games on PC. So there's that

 

[wesleyshark]

I was talking about more mass market success. While I don't think either Will huge mass market success. If the pro is $150 cheaper it'll do much better imo.

The one x isn't meant to be a massive seller. It's meant to be the most powerful console you can buy, so if someone is worried about price, they are not the person it's being marketed to.

 

[Caronte]

They should continue this model, no PS5, just go with a PS4Pro2 with Ryzen in 2019

God no.

 

[Kleegamefan]

This is bullshit. You cannot build an equivalent PC for less than Xbox One X so stop spreading that.

And it isn't "stupidity" some people just like having video game consoles and the ease of access that comes with that.

Even if they *could * build a PC for the price of an X1X, Red Dead Redemption 2 will only be available for consoles and the best version( the one I am getting) will almost certainly be for Xbox One X.

The last game made by Rockstar sold over 70 million copies and is still in the top 10, so you are potentially talking about a huge chunk of people not being able to play a very high profile game on PCs as far as we can tell.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

This.

Realistically by making the X1X such a considerable amount more expensive than X1S, MS have to sell the new model's strengths harder to justify it to the market. They have to really push it, which is a double-edged sword as it risks the base-models becoming overshadowed in the marketing.

Have to say that looking at it dispassionately as I can, as a pure business strategy I'd say I far prefer Sony's approach.

Yeah I think it will be a hard sell, as the problem MS face with their marketing of True 4k is developers are already doing checkerboard rendering on games, so they need to show why we need the $100 more expensive system, when it's doing the same as the Pro.

Obviously some games will be better on the X but how much better will be the question, as that is down to developers, not Microsoft.

 

[gamz]

And that's why 1 of them is dumb and the other is smart, you're catering a certain demographic but putting out a half baked effort.
Price is not first priority for this group, it's what's in the box.

Eh. I'm not interested in this tired argument. I think there's plenty of space for a premium Xbox console. We will see in 5 months.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I was talking about more mass market success. While I don't think either Will huge mass market success. If the pro is $150 cheaper it'll do much better imo.

Fair enough, however as a gamer and a parent of 5 gamers, the pro was never on the table for the kids. What the hell do they know about 4k checkerboard? Not too many parents are going to get the pro over the og 4 for some emergent technology that the "gaming 1%" and early adopters are still trying to get squared away. It will sell more because PlayStation sells more. The price is a non factor.

Edit. To be fair, graphics have been "good enough" for me since Star Wars on GameCube, so not being able to tell the difference should be tabled.

 

[Shin]

Eh. I'm not interested in this tired argument. I think there's plenty of space for a premium Xbox console. We will see in 5 months.

Way too defensive that it blinded you from what I actually said.
In other words and for you to understand me, I'm saying that MS's approach is correct.

 

[Lifeline]

This is why Sony jumped the gun.

I don't think Sony jumped the gun by realizing that not a lot of people will pay $500 for a midgen refresh. Sony has two expensive products for the hardcore gamers, the Pro and the PSVR. Pro has to be priced in a way to allow for purchases of both without eating into each other's sales.

In terms of what I see when people pick a console it usually goes like this:

Friends are on it > Price > Exclusives > Power

I think Sony made a good choice with the balance they struck.

 

[Warnen]

Kinda wish Sony held back both PS4 pro and VR until they got them working togther, the hdr pass thru really tainted me on both at this point.

 

[Equanimity]

Thats good but the games still have to run on the original bone, so "free to do what they want" is basically shore up the frame rate and add a few shinies.

Man are you in for an awakening when you see Anthem running side by side between the One S and One X

what exclusives does OX play that PC won't? I thought they were all multiplatform now?

Well they're exclusive to the Microsoft platform.

I said the PR was crap, it is. You just quoted it, unless it was you who made the statement and work for Microsoft PR.

Alright, my bad.

Phil says a lot of things.

He sure does.

Kinda wish Sony held back both PS4 pro and VR until they got them working togther, the hdr pass thru really tainted me on both at this point.

Hopefully they can accessorise the HDR pass somehow.

 

[gamz]

Way too defensive that it blinded you from what I actually said.
In other words and for you to understand me, I'm saying that MS's approach is correct.

My bad. Didn't read it right. Then I agree. lol

 

[Fafalada]

Here is the timline as I know it

Public timelines are rarely representative of who did what first.
My understanding is that this process node switch required new designs, so that added cost invited consideration of hw revisions(ie. you're paying the cost anyway, so might as well) for both parties. The rest is just respective market strategies, so IMO neither 'blinked' really.

 

[Equanimity]

And that's why 1 of them is dumb and the other is smart, you're catering a certain demographic but putting out a half baked effort.
Price is not first priority for this group, it's what's in the box.

In no way is the Pro a half baked effort. It's different to what Microsoft has done with the One X, but it isn't half baked.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

In no way is the Pro a half baked effort. It's different to what Microsoft has done with the One X, but it isn't half baked.

Missing the UHD drive is kinda half baked, especially if its in the One S for a cheaper SKUs. It seemed to me like a rush job to cash in but I wasn't sure of that till I saw the X1. However, Grand Tourismo Sport looks great in 4k so that's all that matters.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yep we can confirm this by the fact MS could have released a mid-gen refresh also in 2016 but decided it was better waiting for their use case.

Do you have a source for this?

Amazingly tough to find old articles now that everything is out in the open, but here is Kotaku revealing what they know about a PS4.5 on March 18, 2016. In the same article he mentions that he's been hearing about an upgraded XB1 "for a while". The upgraded xb1 rumors kicked into high gear due to Spencer hinting about iterative hardware in February. But the rumors started sooner than that.