Support NeoGAF

[Granadier]

I cannot understand the general disdain for this. Some people are so concerned for MS and their business strategies.

To me it's simple.

You want an Xbox? You can buy the One S. It plays all the games we make, and they look pretty good.

You want an Xbox that takes advantage of your 4K TV and your VR? Here's the Scorpio. It costs more, but hey, if you own a 4K TV and a VR device, you already are invested in the technology. This is right up your alley.

Don't want to play on the couch? You'd rather play with a KB/M on your monitor at a desk? Here's a nice shiny new PC for you.

They. All. Play. The. Same. Games.

Choices are a good thing people. If YOU don't want to spend money on the Scorpio (I am!), then you don't have to. Scorpio owners aren't getting any exclusive games that we know of. Not everybody wants to deal with a PC (I don't!) MS wants as many Xbox/Windows games in as many houses as possible. This is their strategy. I think it's a good one.

Exactly. MS is positioning themselves to have offerings along the entire budget range. From low-budget cardboard seat Visio tier, so Smokey+ tier.

 

[shadowfall]

Is Sony on a financial position to put out a console that meets or surpasses Scorpio? Microsoft has to be eating a loss here, no?

I hope they made enough profit so that they can use it for eating some loss for Neo. If Neo is less powerful than Scorpio, I might just get a PC as all games would anyway run on the base ps4.

 

[SOR5]

id be happy with 1080p and locked 60fps plus ALL bells and whistles

I would be absolute content with that as well, still a believer that image fidelity is not as important as framerate and aesthetics

 

[FordGTGuy]

Wouldn't it be super easy for Sony now to come out with *drumroll* 6.1 TERAFLOPS!!!!!

Hah... no.

If the rumors are true then it would take a hardware redesign to do this.

Heating becomes a huge issue in these kind of cases.

 

[shark sandwich]

So current high end graphics card (GTX 1080) have around 9 teraflops right now.

The midrange one (gtx 1070) has about 6.5 teraflops

considering the Scorpio will be released in a bit less then 1 and a half year from now, 6 tera flops don't seem that impressive at first glance.

By that time nvidia will have their TI versions and stuff like that out, going beyond 10 teraflops.

the 360 has 0.23 tera flops, the xb one, 1.3 teraflops.

That means the upgrade from the 360 to the one was bigger then the one to the scorpio

Why are people loosing their shit?

360 -> One also took 8 years while One -> Scorpio is just 4 years. It's not going to be cutting edge at release but it'll be much closer to a good gaming PC than One was. It'll also be nice that Xbox gamers won't be getting stuck with the inferior version of multiplats anymore.

 

[Jedipottsy]

Not true. The Scorpio will be in Titan X territory, not 1080 territory. And the Titan X is a dGPU instead of integrated. A Titan X (single) struggles to stay above 30-40 @4K on recent titles.

titan x is 7tf, more like 970-980 performance

 

[AstroNut325]

So current high end graphics card (GTX 1080) have around 9 teraflops right now.

The midrange one (gtx 1070) has about 6.5 teraflops

considering the Scorpio will be released in a bit less then 1 and a half year from now, 6 tera flops don't seem that impressive at first glance.

By that time nvidia will have their TI versions and stuff like that out, going beyond 10 teraflops.

the 360 has 0.23 tera flops, the xb one, 1.3 teraflops.

That means the upgrade from the 360 to the one was bigger then the one to the scorpio

Why are people loosing their shit?

Comparing to PC is the way to look at it. You see stuff like Ryse, UC4, DC, FH3, and others with amazing visuals on 1.3-1.8TF. Its the idea that now these same teams have 3-5X the compute. That's what's exciting.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I would be absolute content with that as well, still a believer that image fidelity is not as important as framerate and aesthetics

Why not both?

If games on Scorpio have options like Apex does on PC then you could either run at 4k with graphical settings lowered or 1080p with everything maxed out.

Apex allows everything to by dynamic in order to maintain resolution, framerate or both resolution and framerate.

 

[Mr E.]

Xbox one Remasters incoming I guess.

 

[Freeman]

Why not both?

If games on Scorpio have options like Apex does on PC then you could either run at 4k with graphical settings lowered or 1080p with everything maxed out.

At that point what would be the difference between Xbox and a PC in a small case?

 

[EatinOlives]

ITT people underestimate the power needed to achieve 4K @60fps.

Really guys, take your 1080p60 and be happy with it, that's what Scorpio will be able to pull off for a >$500 box.

Just to put things into perspective:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/nvidia-gtx-1070-review/

The biggest gains come at 1440p, which is definitely the sweet spot for the GTX 1070, although it's a capable 4K card provided you're happy gaming at 30FPS with a few settings dialed down. As with the GTX 1080, SLI is still a requirement for 60FPS 4K gaming. Hopefully one day we'll be able to live the 4K HDR dream with a single GPU.

There is no single card in the market that can achieve 60FPS on 4K. That kind of performance is NOT happening on 4K unless people are cool with dropping $1k for it.

I'm even skeptical to claim that it'll do stable 30fps. I don't think people realize the magnitude in jump to 4k from 1080p just based off the sheer resolution increase. It's massive.

 

[FordGTGuy]

At that point what would be the difference between Xbox and a PC in a small case?

One is a console and one isn't.

Microsoft are clearly catering to both PC and the people that only want consoles crowd.

People can either build gaming PCs or buy what Microsoft offers as an alternative instead.

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

Has anyone else noticed that Phil keeps referring to it as Xbox One Scorpio? That should answer a lot of people's questions as to whether this is a new 'generation' or just a significant iteration/revision of the Xbox One console.

 

[taco543]

Was looking forward to the s but it looks like I'm getting this instead. And happily too.

 

[Saintruski]

Well, optimisation in this case means tweaking settings down to remove the bottleneck, rather than code2metal sorcery, 4k 60 is possible just unlikely. They would probably need to sacrifice too much fidelity to get there given they will also expect graphical bumps other than resolution.

I know was cracking a joke at some earlier comments. People dont seem to under stand that this is no long powerPC days and we are in x86, there is really not much to be done, everything in consoles now is pretty damn streamlined.

Anyways i run dual 980tis under water and a 5960x under a littledevil, often i only use 1 980ti due to crap SLI support but even i cant run 4k60 at eye popping settings, alot of people are in for disappointment if they believe this can run 4k60...however forza might actually might be possible...it really isnt all that demanding i can run it maxed setting 4k60

 

[Granadier]

Just to put things into perspective:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/nvidia-gtx-1070-review/



There is no single card in the market that can achieve 60FPS on 4K. That kind of performance is NOT happening on 4K unless people are cool with dropping $1k for it.

I'm even skeptical to claim that it'll do stable 30fps. I don't think people realize the magnitude in jump to 4k from 1080p just based off the sheer resolution increase. It's massive.

A single 1080 can handle 4K/60

 

[cyberheater]

Phil and Larry talks about Scorpio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtFUTiwPcQs

They firmly talk that Scorpio is a the high end 4K gaming console.
They clearly think its power is going to be enough.

 

[Cidd]

Sure buddy, just be disingenuous about how console gaming development is different from PC gaming development.

You're comparing games not built for specific hardware running on max settings to a game built for the hardware.

Ironic because almost every game announced for Xbone will also be on PC and you really think Scorpio will out perform a top of the line gaming rig?

lol the delusions of some people.

 

[Trigg]

Probably been posted:

Vega or highly OCed polaris?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Love it!!!!! Give me 3!!!

 

[AmyS]

Back in the autumn of '93, 400 MFLOPs (that's 0.4 GFLOPs) was state-of-the-art for a coin-op arcade machine.

400 GFLOPs was was more power than PS1, Saturn and N64 put together (yeah only N64 worked with FP, but still).

It would take a full 5 years before a console had that much horsepower, even though said console well surpassed it. Dreamcast: 1.4 GFLOPs. Late 1998 (Japan).

Next year, us console "peasants" will have a 6 TFLOP Xbox,

Something that has become crystal clear over the last 48 hours, with both Neo and now Scorpio confirmed...

Spoiler

THE TECH ARMS RACE FOR CONSOLES IS BACK BABY!

 

[FordGTGuy]

Ironic because almost every game announced for Xbone will also be on PC and you really think Scorpio will out perform a top of the line gaming rig?

lol the delusions of some people.

How is that delusional...

I never said or implied that the Scorpio is going to out perform a top of the line gaming rig?

You guys are making claims that it's impossible to do 4k 60 fps on Scorpio when it's clearly in the realm of possibility for games like Forza to do so.

 

[e-gamer]

Here are some average 4k framerate numbers from the GTX 1080, a 9TFLOP card:

Crysis 3: 39,8
Tomb Raider: 43,2
Witcher 3: 44,1
Metro Last Light: 52,7
Hitman: 46

Source

But hey, set yourself up for a disappointment.

But they aren't games optimized for those cards.

 

[EatinOlives]

A single 1080 can handle 4K/60

So the review is wrong?

 

[pieface]

Phil and Larry talks about Scorpio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtFUTiwPcQs

They seem pretty adamant that games will be in 4k on Scorpio.

 

[Raptor]

Sony's plan is to keep their 40,000,000 PS4 users and transistion them to the PS4K.

Not gonna happen if the machine is weaker.

 

[ninjablade]

Well that's nice to know but what does that have to do with this console?

Lol it's looks like the same plan for xbone but with way better specs.

 

[vcc]

Spoiler

THE TECH ARMS RACE FOR CONSOLES IS BACK BABY!

Which may be a deterrent for customer to buy into consoles again. If you have to worry about being obsoleted quickly, why not just get a PC and grab a new GPU every 3 years instead.

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

They seem pretty adamant that games will be in 4k on Scorpio.

I can see a lot of first party games targeting 4K, but I wouldn't hold your breath on 3rd party titles.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Just to put things into perspective:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/nvidia-gtx-1070-review/



There is no single card in the market that can achieve 60FPS on 4K. That kind of performance is NOT happening on 4K unless people are cool with dropping $1k for it.

I'm even skeptical to claim that it'll do stable 30fps. I don't think people realize the magnitude in jump to 4k from 1080p just based off the sheer resolution increase. It's massive.

It depends entirely on the game in question and on which settings you use. You can't get 4k60 for most modern pc games, that doesn't mean there is some light speed barrier you need to break to get there. It depends on dev priorities and whether they're willing to trade lower settings in some areas for higher res capabilities. My guess is in 99% of cases no, but there will be a handful, probably a lot of indies that aren't demanding to begin.

 

[SOR5]

Why not both?
.

I'd feel selfish having hardware that good

 

[CyberPunked]

Prepare yourself for talks about the magic of optimizations

Yeah, people act like console optimization is magic, even though a 750ti outperforms both the PS4 and Xbox One on the majority of titles.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Which may be a deterrent for customer to buy into consoles again. If you have to worry about being obsoleted quickly, why not just get a PC and grab a new GPU every 3 years instead.

Not everyone wants to deal with PCs.

 

[Granadier]

So the review is wrong?

If based on a Founder's edition, no. But the non-reference 1080's handle 4K/60 just fine.

 

[nelchaar]

So who's gonna buy an Xbox One from now until Fall 17? Worse yet, who would drop $299 on the Xbone One S?

 

[DjRalford]

You can run Forza Apex at 3840x2160 at 60fps with settings higher than Xbox One on a stock GTX 970.

Also just to note to people out there, AMD 6tflops at this point is roughly what the 290X and 390X have, which is 5.6-5.9 tflops. These GPUs are from 2014 and 2015.

290X and 390X sit around the GTX 980 in performance and close to the GTX 970. Please stop quoting Titan X and 980ti/1070/1080 and comparing them to AMD GPU. When you go looking for numbers for your AMD based machine please go look at AMD GPUs. Nvidia tflop rating for 980/970 is around 4-4.5.

For AMD to get close to the Titan X/980ti/1070 they released the Fury X which is 8.6 tflops.

Hate to tell you but Forza has auto scaling, if it detects your card struggling it reduces assets to hold 60fps, very clever technology, a 390x can just about hold 60fps at 1440p with scaling off, letalone 4k.

 

[AgentP]

They firmly talk that Scorpio is a the high end 4K gaming console.
They clearly think its power is going to be enough.

Over promise, underdeliver.

They have to say something since they will be last to the market.

 

[pottymouth]

So why do people keep comparing this to a 1070?
AMD TFlops seem very different. 6TF is a bit more than a 290x or the new amd 480x....which is about equal to a nvidia 980....not 980ti/1070

Am I wrong or nah?

 

[Granadier]

So who's gonna buy an Xbox One from now until Fall 17? Worse yet, who would drop $299 on the Xbone One S?

I would trade in mine and pick up a One S. Sure.

 

[FordGTGuy]

So who's gonna buy an Xbox One from now until Fall 17? Worse yet, who would drop $299 on the Xbone One S?

People that want the cheapest 4k bluray player at Best Buy.

 

[vcc]

Not everyone wants to deal with PCs.

One of things people don't want to deal with is rapid obsolescence. This is a step toward removing one of the key reasons many consumers still buy consoles. You buy it and game for 5 or 6 years.

 

[mjp2417]

If you all are just talking about Forza on Scorpio, then 4K60 is definitely possible. It just won't look any better than current Forza beyond the rez bump.

 

[Cidd]

So who's gonna buy an Xbox One from now until Fall 17? Worse yet, who would drop $299 on the Xbone One S?

Xbox fans.

 

[BigSoftieFF]

Not gonna happen if the machine is weaker.

In the U.S. and maybe UK. Will be interesting to see how many people switch back. If the Sony machine is close I don't think too many will flip but lord knows I could be wrong.

 

[DragonKnight]

I hope they made enough profit so that they can use it for eating some loss for Neo. If Neo is less powerful than Scorpio, I might just get a PC as all games would anyway run on the base ps4.

After finally returning making a profit with the PS, I very much doubt Sony wants to get in a pissing contest with Microsoft. Isnt gaming one of sonys only profitable divisions now?

Best case power I see is something that will turn a profit with one game sold. We should stop wishing for our favorite game companies to bankrupt themselves fkr our pleasure.

 

[D4Danger]

So who's gonna buy an Xbox One from now until Fall 17? Worse yet, who would drop $299 on the Xbone One S?

someone who wants a uhd drive or someone who wants to play the games coming out this year. maybe someone who wants to spend $299 and not $499+ and wait a year.

there's lots of reasons to buy one if that's what you want. The Scorpio won't replace the Xbox One on shelves come 2017. They've said they'll continue to support it.

even if you didn't care about games it's still the cheapest UHD blu-ray player and 4K device on the market.

 

[Steel]

They firmly talk that Scorpio is a the high end 4K gaming console.
They clearly think its power is going to be enough.

For 4k30 in some games and 1080p60 in others and 4k60 in like one or two games.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Boooooo

Me no like :c

This our life now I guess

 

[FordGTGuy]

One of things people don't want to deal with is rapid obsolescence. This is a step toward removing one of the key reasons many consumers still buy consoles. You buy it and game for 5 or 6 years.

You're ignoring a few things.

It's all forward compatible meaning that even if you just keep an Xbox One you can still play all the new games.

People don't like PC gaming because of the complexity and reliability it offers in comparison to console.

People buy consoles because they can bring it home, plug it in to their TV and just game.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Here are some average 4k framerate numbers from the GTX 1080, a 9TFLOP card:

Crysis 3: 39,8
Tomb Raider: 43,2
Witcher 3: 44,1
Metro Last Light: 52,7
Hitman: 46

Source

But hey, set yourself up for a disappointment.

coding to the metal plays a big part