BruceLeeRoy
Banned
This looks so good. I can't believe how closely they are keeping the soul of this series alive.
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XCOM: Enemy Unknown gameplay footage
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well, this I doubt because spawns are randomly generated but still...
Neuromancer
Member
Oh I must have missed that, where did they say that?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
lol, premade levels. Just make large square sections like gas station, restaurant, buildings, etc. This make me sad.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Right but it's hard to tell if they actually mean spawns by that. I hope they do.
Neuromancer
Member
Oh I took that more to mean the AI that drives the aliens is dynamic and responds to your actions/movements, not that the spawns are random.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Yes it does as long you're prepared to be thrown in at the deep end and learn how to play without tutorials.
just stop waiting this game already and don't be sad. There is another XCOM game is being made, you can play its alpha right now.
well, I don't think that they would confirm that AI is dynamic because it can't be not dynamic
Let's consider having just the two most basic action: move and shoot.
In a Action + Action* system you have 4 combinations: shoot+shoot, shoot+move, move+shoot, move+move.
(* and a lot of games use an even more limited Move + Action )
In a TUs system, considering the most simplistic scenario where shooting = 50% of your TUs, you'd still at least have one more combination: move+shoot+move; and this is exactly thanks to its flexibility.
In fact a TUs based system uses it flexibility to build complexity, UFO itself is a good example of this. An A+A system needs superstructures to reach complexity, like units with rigidly defined roles and special abilities/powers.
So TUs-based systems are intimately more flexible than A + A.
And your objection makes little to no sense: If you prefer A + A because it is more svelte I can't say nothing (good for you), but the extra options that a TUs system gives are still there and being too lazy to take advantage of them doesn't make them disappear.
Edit: Oh, and TUs is no Einstein stuff, it is just an expendable resource represented by a value, like MANA from every RPG ever.
Neuromancer
Member
We'll see I guess.well, I don't think that they would confirm that AI is dynamic because it can't be not dynamic
as you have said you can use superstructures to build complexity in non-TU system.
I'M FINE WITH THAT. I'm fine with everything except numbers which I hate passionately since the day I went to school and they made me learn them. Just give me a clear representation of resources available, that is all.
What I hope is that the bar the units have under their supposed health (the dotted one), indicates a flexible behavior movement action.
There is a stripe with a small vertical like: I'm hoping the stripe indicates the total amount of a the move action, and the vertical line how much you have expended it. That would open to a more flexible use of the move action (enabling move + shoot + move). It still is inferior to TUs but it is already more creative than a totally rigid A+A.
Edit: hmmm sadly it doesn't seem the case.. judging about the video.
There is a stripe with a small vertical like: I'm hoping the stripe indicates the total amount of a the move action, and the vertical line how much you have expended it. That would open to a more flexible use of the move action (enabling move + shoot + move). It still is inferior to TUs but it is already more creative than a totally rigid A+A.
Edit: hmmm sadly it doesn't seem the case.. judging about the video.
Of course there is a single optimal solution. LOS checks never had any significance in XCOM because every situation fell into 2 states: LOS needed or not. TU do nothing to enhance that complexity. Most times LOS was needed so you reserved those TU if you are playing optimally. All the TU did was provide an accounting exercise that limited players from optimal play through either misunderstanding of the ruleset or as I usually play winging it without much thought because I have enough experience to have a good feel for the TU limitations.
To me micromanagement is NOT FUN. I prefer to focus on strategy and tactics and not accounting. Also, given today's real world technology, unless the aliens are employing stealth technology, LOS is an outmoded concept as the soldiers should have fairly complete battlespace information.
Neuromancer
Member
Do you have a 3DS? Ghost Recon Shadow Wars is pretty awesome.
Valkyria Chronicles maybe?
Boogalogist
Member
Is there some max character limit you can bring in a mission? I want be able to bring 50 men to a mission!!
There is a 4-units limit, which can be upgraded to 6 (new airships I presume).
Of course it is one of the most controversial element of this re-imagination of UFO:EU.
But you couldn't bring 50 men even in Apocalypse (36 max).
Boogalogist
Member
Awwwwwwww c'mon. I regularly bring at least 10 men and a tank!! This won't do!!
I hope modders have a field day out here!
I hope modders have a field day out here!
As heard on InterCom 5456: "We know what the feck makes X-Com, X-Com. Now let's take away all those small, interesting features. Them folks can't count up to five anyway. Ladders are too mainsteam, gotta be hip-"
Let me straight up guess, if...
- Each level starts with a cutscene where your units escape the ramp and you start with all of them scattered in the radius of your dropship and behind a cover.
- Your funds/points will be shown to you in two to three-digit numbers. (you have 100£, upgrade costs 15£, etc etc...)
- The interceptors will automatically intercept moving targets. You only may be able to choose their style of engagement. (if they don't introduce a laser satellite)
- smoke grenades are either a perk or entirely not within the game. Same goes to night gear.
- All things math (ex. TU's, percentages, etc) will be simplified (17%? more like 20%!).
I am out.
So, please be good, please be good, please be- oh an ant hive! simple folks have hard time counting on that. Now I feel much saver about this game.
Also,
Bunch of unprofessional jackasses in my team Every vet knows that you deploy a tank and a smoke screen first and foremost.
Let me straight up guess, if...
- Each level starts with a cutscene where your units escape the ramp and you start with all of them scattered in the radius of your dropship and behind a cover.
- Your funds/points will be shown to you in two to three-digit numbers. (you have 100£, upgrade costs 15£, etc etc...)
- The interceptors will automatically intercept moving targets. You only may be able to choose their style of engagement. (if they don't introduce a laser satellite)
- smoke grenades are either a perk or entirely not within the game. Same goes to night gear.
- All things math (ex. TU's, percentages, etc) will be simplified (17%? more like 20%!).
I am out.
So, please be good, please be good, please be- oh an ant hive! simple folks have hard time counting on that. Now I feel much saver about this game.
Also,
Bunch of unprofessional jackasses in my team
Every vet knows that you deploy a tank and a smoke screen first and foremost.As heard on InterCom 5456: "We know what the feck makes X-Com, X-Com. Now let's take away all those small, interesting features. Them folks can't count up to five anyway. Ladders are too mainsteam, gotta be hip-"
Let me straight up guess, if...
- Each level starts with a cutscene where your units escape the ramp and you start with all of them scattered in the radius of your dropship and behind a cover.
- Your funds/points will be shown to you in two to three-digit numbers. (you have 100£, upgrade costs 15£, etc etc...)
- The interceptors will automatically intercept moving targets. You only may be able to choose their style of engagement. (if they don't introduce a laser satellite)
- With the way the gameplay is, smoke grenades are either a perk or entirely not within the game.
- All things math (TU's, percentages) will be simplified (17%? more like 20%!).
I am out.
So, please be good, please be good, please be- oh an ant hive! simple folks have hard time counting on that. Now I feel much saver about this game.
Also,
Bunch of unprofessional jackasses in my team
- maybe
- doubt it
- no clue
- they said smokes are in, and some classes can use them more effectively
- maybe
Lies! Here you have only 41§ and power generator costs simply 5§
It is pretty clear the studio expects me/us to be a little dumb or something. Atleast smoke is in, so I am delighted a lot by that.
JumpJeff84
Member
Looks great to me.
Minsc
Gold Member
This is actually one of the things we were teased about a while ago, but I don't believe we've seen much more of. They mentioned they were expanding the ship to UFO combat from the original (greatly I think?), but never really gave many details on how. Maybe someone else remembers where it was mentioned, I can't find it again. I am curious to see what system they have in place for taking down airborne ufos.
This one's definitely wrong. There's screens with units with non-rounded hp and %s to hit, like this one.
goober said:
Silent Storm + expansion and Jagged Alliance 2 would definitely be worth looking in to if you've tried the original X-Com already.
platypotamus
Member
Wait what? You're offended by the removal of a bunch of zeroes from the end of a number? Why? If that little "§" was replaced by "M§" for Millions of §, would you be less offended?
No, it's merely about defying a principle. You do agree that if soldiers wore pink or red armor, it wouldn't be taken as seriously as green armor, why? Because of principle. I say give things a cost that make sense, just like in the original game you earned what felt like a real funding.
Also if that §M defines that whenever you run under 1M§, it becomes <999,999§ I truly have no problem with that. Otherwise 1M§ is the limit and that's boring in my opinion.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
After watching 3 seconds of actual gameplay footage, and I knew this would be mine.
Welcome back, XCOM:UFO Defense.
Welcome back, XCOM:UFO Defense.
This looks great , but fuck dynamic camera angles my god this type of shit is ruining games for me. These glam cams always suck dick Arkahm City, Street Fighter 4, im seeing it in the new Dead or Alive, it makes me feel like im in a quicktime event and I hate that shit. Here watch a repetive 10 sec clip that youve seen a hundred times before you can play again k. Hope you can turn that shit off, the game is beautiful in the isometric view and thats how i'd always like to view the game thanks.
charlequin
Banned
Right. You'll generally find people working in design of well-regarded, strategically deep games these days working to reduce accounting wherever possible, because it's extremely inefficient design-wise -- a fairly small amount of it can quickly push a player's experience into tedium, fatigue, and dissatisfaction, but it generally takes a pretty large amount of accounting-heavy content to produce a small amount of strategic depth. (If you have 1000 possible choices, but 995 of them are straightforwardly bad, you've got a ton of accounting but not much depth.)
Some of the issue here is that there are a pretty good number of players who enjoy strategic depth and also enjoy accounting. These players are going to be inclined towards keeping both around already for that reason, but those players will also be the best positioned to take advantage of the minuscule benefits that careful accounting can extract -- which means they're always going to overestimate the amount of benefit it brings to the table.
Right, it's not impossible to create a UI that simplifies the TU process, but you reach a point where it's a question of how much value you're extracting by doing so. A ground-coloring move-then-act system covers most of the scenarios a TU system can and a three-tier action system (major-minor-move, like in D&D 3rd Edition) covers basically all of them.
This isn't really an apples-to-apples comparison though. I mean, if you break it down to the simplest imaginable system:
ACTIONS: You have two actions, a move and an action. The move can be used to move up to 5 tiles. The action can be used to shoot OR to move up to five tiles. You must use the move first.
TURN UNITS: You have ten TUs. Each square you move costs one TU; shooting costs 5 TUs; you can't move after you shoot.
The outcomes are identical in those two systems, even though one uses TU and one doesn't. At that point there's no tactical difference whatsoever. And starting from that point, most individual tactical choices can be implemented in either system in a way that preserves most of the depth. For example, with LOS-checking, you could manually look around yourself (at a cost of 1 TU) on each square, or you could implement a "move cautiously" action in the action system, that halves your movement but checks your LOS on each square. In the vast majority of situations, there's no meaningful tactical difference here.
Isn't it on iOS now too?
ZombieSupaStar
Member
hehe
Having played Xcom, Fallout , and Jagged Alliance back when they were new.
I prefer VATS, Action + Action, and Plan & Go, over their old systems.
*runsfromangrymob*
Having played Xcom, Fallout , and Jagged Alliance back when they were new.
I prefer VATS, Action + Action, and Plan & Go, over their old systems.
*runsfromangrymob*
Wait, I thought they were....
Neuromancer
Member
Charlequin: I don't think it's on iOS yet, but it's coming.
I'm sorta offended that you're so offended.As heard on InterCom 5456: "We know what the feck makes X-Com, X-Com. Now let's take away all those small, interesting features. Them folks can't count up to five anyway. Ladders are too mainsteam, gotta be hip-"
Let me straight up guess, if...
- Each level starts with a cutscene where your units escape the ramp and you start with all of them scattered in the radius of your dropship and behind a cover.
- Your funds/points will be shown to you in two to three-digit numbers. (you have 100£, upgrade costs 15£, etc etc...)
- The interceptors will automatically intercept moving targets. You only may be able to choose their style of engagement. (if they don't introduce a laser satellite)
- smoke grenades are either a perk or entirely not within the game. Same goes to night gear.
- All things math (ex. TU's, percentages, etc) will be simplified (17%? more like 20%!).
I am out.
So, please be good, please be good, please be- oh an ant hive! simple folks have hard time counting on that. Now I feel much saver about this game.
Also,
Bunch of unprofessional jackasses in my team
I mean really? If these are the things you're worried about, they must have done a fan-fucking-tastic job making sure every other aspect of the original was there.
Rounding of percentages. Would you even be able to notice the difference in-game.
This is a forcing. It doesn't naturally belong to a TUs-based system.
Erm, what's your problem? If you look at my post you quoted it is already an admission that I had misinterpreted your statement.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Very disappointed with lack of random generated levels. I could live with 6 team members and lack of TUs but non-random levels is a breaker for me. You will see the same levels in YT videos that you encounter during your gameplay. They said "obscene" amount... how much is this? If the game can be beaten in say 40 level then obscene IMO is 400 levels. Doubt they would create 10 times the amount of levels that you need to complete the game.
I think you're missing the point. TUs allow as many actions as you have points for (see my formula earlier in the thread), a two move system allows 2 actions max, how can you not see the difference?
For example, if throwing a grenade costs half the time units of shooting, you immediately have a greater choice, do you move and shoot once, or move and throw two grenades, or move and throw one grenade and then move again?
With a two move system you can only move and shoot, or move and throw one grenade only, it flattens out most actions to be considered the same (shooting is equivalent to a grenade, moving one square is equivalent to moving five squares). To me, that is a huge reduction in depth.
Neuromancer
Member
Sounds like this will be very accessible.