ATB is not turnbased. Turnbased assumes that there's a set order of doing things and a finality to each move with no great sense of dynamism when controlling your battles. ATB rather works off of a more active cooldown system that allows for a variety of points in which you can attack.
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Yoichi Wada: Final Fantasy Versus XIII not cancelled
- Thread starter Kagari
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ATB is not turnbased. Turnbased assumes that there's a set order of doing things and a finality to each move with no great sense of dynamism when controlling your battles. ATB rather works off of a more active cooldown system that allows for a variety of points in which you can attack.
You don't take turns, though. You can act as long as your active time meter is full.
Most games don't allow you to constantly attack. Even action RPGs sometimes don't let you constantly attack, there are often delay periods on your moves, or cooldowns on special abilities. That doesn't make them turn-based, either. The menu-drivenness of ATB games seems to always trick people into thinking they're turn-based, for some reason. I guess because they equate "command menu" with "turn-based."
ATB is as turn-based as the combat in World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy 11 is. Both rely on cooldowns before you can act again, even with regular attacks. FF11 is even menu-driven just like ATB games are. The only differences between FF11's combat and ATB are that you can move freely around the battlefield in FF11, and in FF11 your moves have cooldowns on each ability instead of for your next action. And in fact, FF10-2 and FF4 DS added the variable cooldown aspect.
In Japan, these types of games are called "command RPGs," which I think is a much better descriptor for the umbrella that includes all of the FF games, Grandia, Dragon Quest, etc. Turn-based refers to games like FF1-3, FF10, Dragon Quest, Blue Dragon, etc. where nobody can act until the person whose turn it is has acted.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
So Secret of Mana is turn based because you can't constantly attack?
I don't know, I do "trust" Nomura, he has proven to be a capable director, but I don't think it isn't valid to have some doubts, specially after the long development.
That being said, I have high hopes for the game
You can, it's just ineffective.
Stealth20k
Banned
as far as I recall you can, you can constantly swing your sword
If you constantly swing your sword, you do zero damage. You have to wait for the meter to recharge to do any respectable damage.
Stealth20k
Banned
So your telling me ff VI isnt turn based?
you know what? I like you, and if we continue this conversation I imagine an argument. I am sorry I brought it up consider it dropped
Stealth20k
Banned
thats besides the point.
Anyway, consider it dropped
Bottom line, versus isnt turn based
FFVI is a turn based game. The heck? lol.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I really....really....really hope Wada was being genuine when he says the footage from Versus would knock us off our feet. That means it has to look better than FFXIII, which already looks good.
Only the earlier games, as it's been said in this thread, Birth By Sleep (and re:coded/3D after it) have pretty much the best action rpg combat and skill systems around.
Which, the trailer showing combat for Versus looked nothing like. So there's that.
I don't think Versus needs to be exactly like the more recent KH games, but, I do hope they come up with something very fun that doesn't rely on button mashing as well. Since it's been stated before the menus in the video were partly placeholder so we don't really even have a good idea how anything will work.
It's also near impossible to tell what is going on in that video, the only thing you can really see for sure is 1) you can chain melee attacks and magic together, which isn't a thing in KH. 2) you can seemingly switch between characters at will and magic with each character behaves differently and 3) Noctis at least can switch between weapon types right in the middle of combat (this probably means weapon types behave differently).
Of course, the combat will probably be a lot different than what we saw there when the game finally comes out, but it will be interesting to see if the early ideas make it into the final product, and more importantly, if they are even fun. There is potential in the ideas, but we just have to wait and see.
Because he's bringing in a profit for SE. If they begin to lose money each year instead of gain you will probably see some shifting around, but, that isn't that case currently.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
Fixed for truth!
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
The whole point is that SE shouldn't have put its fans in the position of having to ask if the game still exists.
Show us trailers. Interviews. Screenshots. Dev diaries. Hell, even concept art. Don't leave it for three years and expect us to still care about something that we've heard nothing from in that time.
Show us trailers. Interviews. Screenshots. Dev diaries. Hell, even concept art. Don't leave it for three years and expect us to still care about something that we've heard nothing from in that time.
saveweyard
Banned
Yes, I do like Lightning as a character.
Boring protagonist and even worse, she's a rather bland character that remains to be uncool and flat throughout the entirety of XIII and XIII-2 pretty much.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
blah blah blah opinions blah blah mine are cooler than yours and if you like something I dont I'm going to blah blah bitch and moan about something that serves no context to the topic at hand
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I will say. I did enjoy her punching Snow and just generally putting him in his place whenever he acted like a complete tool with his goddamn "I'M THE HERO" speeches. Also whipping Hope into shape when he was bitching on and on. Although I heard she gets kinda awful as you get further in the game which is a shame.
saveweyard
Banned
True, her personality is pretty flat, but I just love how badass she is! And XIII-2 elevates her to an almost demigod status.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Hey lots of people like Cloud for the same reasons nothing wrong with liking characters you like.
Shit Noctis has a HUGE fanbase already... and no one knows jack shit about the character really. :lol
Uh... was that necessary? The guy posted a picture and I offered my thoughts an opinions. In no way shape or form did that post was I trying to mean anything else by it. Thanks for contributing much with your post. It was of great importance.
saveweyard
Banned
Thank you. I have no idea why my actually liking something decreases the validity of my statement (a statement expressing my opinion and nothing more). I understand that some people (most people on this board) don't like it. Many don't like emo Cloud either. I get it.
saveweyard
Banned
I was more ticked off by the guy posting my avatar as a response than your comment, because your's actually led to a discussion.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It wasn't just been stressed lately I could of worded that a lot better without sounding like I have a stick up my ass or somesuch. Sorry x.x/
Aeana is right, ATB isn't turn based. You turn on active and the monster(s) assuming they can do any damage to you at all will attack all day and kill you.
Hell, one of my favorite battle plans for clearing the Fork Tower with a sub par party in FF V is to put up reflect, get Omni in a pattern where he isn't casting drain, and letting him cast away his gigantic pool of Magic Points while I go to sleep for the night.
Hell, one of my favorite battle plans for clearing the Fork Tower with a sub par party in FF V is to put up reflect, get Omni in a pattern where he isn't casting drain, and letting him cast away his gigantic pool of Magic Points while I go to sleep for the night.
They know he looks like . . . that. Apparently that and acting tragic is a real turn on.
Still don't know if I care about Versus. But I'm starting to feel like its a fucking deadweight that's holding up the next proper FF. And it doesn't take 6 years to make a single player game, fuck you SE for trying to bullshit us otherwise. Just release the damn thing and get on it with it.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
World of Warcraft is turn based? You do know in ATB you can still get attacked even though it's YOUR TURN right? That's like playing chess and making 6 moves before the other guy makes any. Actually better examples would be FF12 or FF11 or FF14
Relaxed Muscle
Member
She punches Snow in the face not one but two times. That makes her one of the best FF characters by default.
Lavalamp1138
Member
Noctis < Stella
Noctis is a pessimist.
Pessimists are cool. I'm a pessimist. I'm the exception though.
I don't play MMO's but if you can move even if it's not your turn then I would say no it's not turn-based.
Yes you can get attacked in ATB even if it ain't your turn. But you can't do anything about it, you can't heal or move out of the way (unless the character evades, not in the player's control though). So for me ATB is turn-based since you literally have to WAIT until it's your turn before you can input any commands.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
So FF12 isn't turned based? With that said, is ff13 turn based when you can change modes on the fly to negate damage and other things? Along with HOW FAST the guage feels and the ability to do an action the second a single bar is filled *normally with in half a second*
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I saw a movie trailer before and that character is now my favorite character. I never seen the movie though. But omg that character in the movie trailer seemed so bad ass time to go write fan fiction and other things before the movie is even out.
This is how I view it xD
I mean I enjoy being hype I get hype as fuck all the time. Look at my post about Darksiders 2 for example. I just find it weird when people claim him as one of their fave characters ever.
Exactly... I'm the exact same way. The battle was the best scene. This scene at 3:45... omg... slow motion with all them walking away was also just as badass!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGyVZRHZ2ow
Well as you know in the past years, developers especially those with FF try to "evolve" the traditional turn-based system.
For FF12, though it was elements of the turn-based systems of past, I would not qualify it as such. It's essentially a hybrid between old-school systems and the MMO systems.
For FF13 (haven't played 13-2), I will say YES it is a turn-based system. Though you can change modes/paradigms on the fly, you really don't command your characters to do any action like moving, dodging etc. Yes changing paradigms have an effect on damage taken etc but your character still waits for their turn to do any action.
As I mentioned earlier, the developers are constantly evolving the systems, blurring the line between turn-based and not (the two FF games are good examples). But for me what is clear is that ATB is indeed turn-based.
Come on now can you really say FFIV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX and X-2 were not turn-based?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
hahaha with that said, FFX kinda feels less turn based than the older games in a funny way... DAT QUICK ATTACK MASHING yes it's truely turn based but battles ended up being faster for it.
I think that's what I hate about ATB systems they slow the game down unless done at high speeds which is what 13 did right.
In all seriousness though I do hope the game does come to be, I like the idea of a realistic world mixed with high fantasy and have always enjoyed the KH games. I'm just keeping my hype levels down til I see solid stuff from the game besides stuff that could be considered concept trailers XD
I think that's what I hate about ATB systems they slow the game down unless done at high speeds which is what 13 did right.
HAHAHAHAHA
In all seriousness though I do hope the game does come to be, I like the idea of a realistic world mixed with high fantasy and have always enjoyed the KH games. I'm just keeping my hype levels down til I see solid stuff from the game besides stuff that could be considered concept trailers XD
The Last One
Member
Well, the problem for me is not the ATB being slow, the problem is when it's TOO SLOW, like FF VIII... Oh gosh, each Squall's attack took like forever.
Schobeleth
Member
To all the haters who are saying it's nonsense for us to want the game so bad, to speak so highly of it when we haven't played it, etc etc:
The production values are much, much better than XIII. The characters, world, everything just scream epic and give me chills every time I watch trailers or gameplay. XIII never did that. XIII never felt like a truly epic FF game. This one has every inclination of being that, a true, amazing FF game that us fans have been wanting - not a hallway simulator or a game that has an ABSURD story filled with time paradox plotholes. We want the TRUE next gen FF game, Versus XIII, and we want it now
I still don't understand why they keep letting it slip further and further into the future.
The production values are much, much better than XIII. The characters, world, everything just scream epic and give me chills every time I watch trailers or gameplay. XIII never did that. XIII never felt like a truly epic FF game. This one has every inclination of being that, a true, amazing FF game that us fans have been wanting - not a hallway simulator or a game that has an ABSURD story filled with time paradox plotholes. We want the TRUE next gen FF game, Versus XIII, and we want it now
I still don't understand why they keep letting it slip further and further into the future.Seven Force
Banned
I went back and watched the 1st production premiere trailer to remind myself why I'm even looking forward to the game.
That first CG scene still blows me away. Wow.
That first CG scene still blows me away. Wow.
You have to wonder what the reason for the long dev time is. For The Last Guardian, we have been told of the ambitious and complex realtionship system between the boy and the creature.
Do we have any idea what "innovation" Nomura is cooking up here which may have been the culprit for the wait?
Do we have any idea what "innovation" Nomura is cooking up here which may have been the culprit for the wait?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I would assume a small team at first as well as making it open world if it is openworld. The problem with openworld games of the sort is you have to make it so triggers and other things don't go off out of order, placement of were to go is straight forward for the player and that players shouldn't be in places they shouldn't be. This takes a long time to make it properly with out feeling like you are being lead through a tunnel with the illusion of an open world. Toss in the combat system being KH style and them probably adding onto it based off newer KH games and other goodies we havent seen as well as bug testing and other stuff. It's honestly a really big project if they want to make it a full length rpg
Stealth20k
Banned
I assume its only been in dev 1.5 years or so.
Schobeleth
Member
I think it's just simply that it's a FF game in the vein of the older games - i.e., big open world map, lots of towns and dungeons and places to explore... basically a lot of content, which is something that made us all love FF games in the first place, amirite? A lot of games this gen have become linear to compensate for how outrageous the costs and development times would be to make a big open world game with the same amount of content as older open world games, like say PS1 era.
Edit: There were times when parts of Nomura's team were cannibalized to help XIII's production though. I'm sure it's happened on numerous occasions though.
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