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[Justified]

”If they could make it, why'd they take it?" - Anthony Sammi's, ZeniMax attorney

Oculus attorney Beth Wilkinson argued to the same jury that the multibillion-dollar lawsuit was driven by ZeniMax's embarrassment, jealousy and anger, not facts.
We're here because the defendants stole something very valuable," Sammi told the jury, going on to call the entire thing a heist and proclaiming as fantasy the story that Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey developed the Rift on his own.

His argument hinged on Carmack being a foundational component to Oculus' success. Luckey was only a hobbyist, Sammi argued, and not a software expert, which would have left the Oculus software development kit to the hands of the rest of Oculus.

ZeniMax's attorney listed damages, too. — ranging from $1.33 billion all the way to $2 billion for punitive damages. Sammi also pushed for compensatory awards, an additional total that could be as much as the damages, bringing the entire total to as much as $4 billion.

Oculus' Wilkinson then took the floor, laying out her argument just as strongly. Her opening was a plea to the decency of the jury, calling out ZeniMax for belittling the defendants and their witness for offering disagreeable testimony during cross examination. ”They're jealous, they're angry, and they're embarrassed," she said, going on to quote the plaintiffs calling Oculus a group of ”clowns" and decrying the Rift as ”stupid."

Besides, Wilkinson argued, ZeniMax never valued virtual reality — let alone its own trade secrets — and failed to make a timely claim to the use of its technology. She called ZeniMax CEO Robert Altman's focus on AAA games a ”narrow strategy," one that never saw VR as something viable in the marketplace.

full story here

 

[LewieP]

My gut says that Zenimax is going to win, but I don't know if they'll get $4b.

They are notoriously litigious, and a lot of the legal action they've taken or threatened has been unfounded, but I think they have a strong case here.

 

[Landford]

Unlucky Facebook.

 

[Slayven]

Besides, Wilkinson argued, ZeniMax never valued virtual reality — let alone its own trade secrets

So if i see someone hooking up a 60 inch tv with a/v cables I can take it because they were not valuing it?

 

[Tagyhag]

Oculus' defense seems stupid. If you stole something, you stole something. Doesn't matter if the other people weren't using it.

 

[Chuck]

Can't wait until the jury gives us a gem similar to this

 

[Trup1aya]

I pretty much hate both companies. Cant they both lose?

 

[James Scott]

I hope Facebook regrets giving Lucky Palmer all that money to fund his political marketing campaigns.
Sounds like a pretty big setback for VR if the case goes through.
Interested in seeing how it turns out
Facebook spent $2 Billion on their acquisition so I imagine it wouldn't be worth it if they lost an additional 2x what they paid

 

[Zaph]

So if i see someone hooking up a 60 inch tv with a/v cables I can take it because they were not valuing it?

That has basically been Carmack's defence - he did a whole bunch of R&D on Zenimax's dime, they weren't interested in bringing it to market, so he thought he could up and leave to another company because it was 'his'.

I think it's highly likely Zenimax will win this.

 

[Crayon]

I hope oculus gets their ass destroyed in court.

 

[Usobuko]

whoever loses, we win.

 

[ForkNetwork]

I hope oculus gets their ass destroyed in court.

Ditto, this will be an interesting case

 

[Kyrios]

That's a lot of money. Gonna be interesting on how this turns out.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

i would love to see nothing more than Facebook and Palmer get fucked hard in court

 

[jediyoshi]

i would love to see nothing more than to see Facebook and Palmer get fucked hard in court

Same sentiments here.

 

[Afrikan]

first thing that came to my mind when reading that title.

"Who has 4 Billion Dollars?"

edit- wait Facebook maybe? haha ok.

 

[James Scott]

first thing I that came to my mind when reading that tile.

"Who has 4 Billion Dollars?"

Facebook probably has a couple Bs

 

[frankie_baby]

first thing I that came to my mind when reading that tile.

"Who has 4 Billion Dollars?"

Put a few zeros after 4 and Facebook do

 

[uncredited male]

“If they could make it, why’d they take it?” - Anthony Sammi’s, ZeniMax attorney

Well they are going to win for sure.

 

[Machina]

inb4 facebook pay it out in pennies

 

[McNum]

Can't wait until the jury gives us a gem similar to this

What's the story there? Why the relatively small markdown, especially that last edit to the hundreds?

 

[Pie and Beans]

Oculus was a flubbed company all the way along.

- Not thinking through the legal ramifications of hiring Carmack and using his Zenimax work.
- Sitting on Crescent Bay and just letting competitors roll out
- Their several appalling presentations/press conferences.
- Not developing motion controllers early on, shipping with Xbox controller (worst controller for VR of the current gen)
- Sudden walled garden and attempt to lock out PC 'hacks'
- Botched launch, insane price, real shipping problems, disgraceful treatment of markets outside America

and thats all before Luckey went cuckoo. I'm glad the future of VR is in Valve and Sony's hands, because Oculus screwed the pooch.

 

[isaacnukem]

Go go Zenimax

 

[CountAntonius]

I feel for Carmack and that's about it.

 

[massoluk]

My money is on Zenimax winning. Carmack just was too giddy with Oculus development while he was still employed by another company, this is known

 

[wipeout364]

Isn't that like 40 times what they paid for id software. Crazy it's like they planned it to pay for all their recent acquisitions 10 times over.

 

[robotrock]

I hope oculus gets their ass destroyed in court.

Same

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

Go go Zenimax

Trump's little brother needs to be paid!

Remember when Zenimax's CEO accepted a plea deal when settling a civil suit with the federal reserve which banned him from practising banking for life? Great folks on both sides!

 

[Patryn]

I feel for Carmack and that's about it.

If/When Oculus loses, it'll be almost entirely on Carmack's shoulders for why.

 

[FingerBang]

I don't share the hate towards Oculus and I hope the company doesn't get screwed because of this. We need a lot of big companies in the game if we want VR to be popular.

That Luckey though...

 

[TharpDaddy]

If/When Oculus loses, it'll be almost entirely on Carmack's shoulders for why.

Curious if Facebook would fire him in that case, or they'd bite the bullet to keep his expertise.

 

[isaacnukem]

Trump's little brother needs to be paid!

Remember when Zenimax's CEO accepted a plea deal when settling a civil suit with the federal reserve which banned him from practising banking for life? Great folks on both sides!

Zenimax owns Bethesda right? This means more funds for Elder Scrolls VI!

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

If/When Oculus loses, it'll be almost entirely on Carmack's shoulders for why.

And this seems similar to the original founding of id on softdisks hardware. Only now the stakes are much much higher than providing a few games in return.

 

[Usobuko]

I don't share the hate towards Oculus and I hope the company doesn't get screwed because of this. We need a lot of big companies in the game if we want VR to be popular.

That Luckey though...

There's Valve, Sony, Samsung and Google etc.

It's ok, someone or other will simply take its place and mindshare.

 

[hwy_61]

Damn man. Carmack fuuuuucked UP man!

 

[jax]

whoever wins: VR loses.

Thanks Zuckerburg & Palmer Luckey for ruining the future of the platform. Dicks.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Take my energy, Zenimax! つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

[Tagyhag]

Facebook probably has a couple Bs

Yeah while FB can pay this, it's not exactly chump change.

In the unlikely scenario that Zenimax wins the 4 billion, that's more than half of their operating income for 2015.

I'd be pretty pissed at Oculus if I were them.

 

[eggandI]

Bye bye VR

Maybe in another 30 years they'll give it a go again

 

[Maintenance]

I don't feel bad for Luckey or Facebook, but I do feel bad for VR. Zenimax being the one getting the money is also extra shitty.

 

[Tagyhag]

Bye bye VR

Maybe in another 30 years they'll give it a go again

You don't want the VR that Facebook envisions.

 

[MrDaravon]

That has basically been Carmack's defence - he did a whole bunch of R&D on Zenimax's dime, they weren't interested in bringing it to market, so he thought he could up and leave to another company because it was 'his'.

I think it's highly likely Zenimax will win this.

This is more or less my takeaway as well, but I haven't been following this super closely.

Like many others though I'm not really a fan of most of the people involved with this so eh. It would be interesting to see what Facebook would do if they lose this badly to the tune of a lot of money. I mean yeah it's fun and popular to shit on Palmer Luckey, but there's potentially a lot of people that could be put out of work etc. No winners here really.

 

[Somnid]

My money is on Zenimax winning. Carmack just was too giddy with Oculus development while he was still employed by another company, this is known

Well gee, you're working on Doom 3, Rage, and going through multiple failures with Doom 4 and then someone invites you to become a pioneer in a field you are super passionate about.

 

[Patryn]

If/When Oculus loses, will Facebook even be able to continue developing/selling Rifts? Or will a lot of the tech not then belong to Zenimax instead?

 

[Kumubou]

That has basically been Carmack's defence - he did a whole bunch of R&D on Zenimax's dime, they weren't interested in bringing it to market, so he thought he could up and leave to another company because it was 'his'.

I think it's highly likely Zenimax will win this.

Carmack's been known to play rather fast and loose with regards to company time and resources with regards to R&D, and it's something he did going all the way back to Wolfenstein. It wasn't a problem when he was part owner of the company and Zenimax probably didn't really change that after id Software was sold to them since that's how a lot of id's technology was researched. It only became a problem when he decided to leave for Oclous and took his work with him and it turned out that VR has a bunch of money behind it.

So I could totally see that biting Oclous/Facebook in the ass -- it's rather sloppy legal work on their part if that is the case.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

That has basically been Carmack's defence - he did a whole bunch of R&D on Zenimax's dime, they weren't interested in bringing it to market, so he thought he could up and leave to another company because it was 'his'.

I think it's highly likely Zenimax will win this.

If that's his defense I can't see that holding up.

 

[LewieP]

Yeah while FB can pay this, it's not exactly chump change.

In the unlikely scenario that Zenimax wins the 4 billion, that's more than half of their operating income for 2015.

I'd be pretty pissed at Oculus if I were them.

Well doing appropriate due diligence was facebook's responsibility before the purchase.

 

[Armaros]

Carmack's been known to play rather fast and loose with regards to company time and resources with regards to R&D, and it's something he did going all the way back to Wolfenstein. It wasn't a problem when he was part owner of the company and Zenimax probably didn't really change that after id Software was sold to them since that's how a lot of id's technology was researched. It only became a problem when he decided to leave for Oclous and took his work with him and it turned out that VR has a bunch of money behind it.

So I could totally see that biting Oclous/Facebook in the ass -- it's rather sloppy legal work on their part if that is the case.

They already admitted in court that FB literally ran through the paper work and legal oversight of buying Oculus for 2B over a single weekend.

there are messages between Zuckerberg and one of his aquisition lawyers, where the lawyer told Zuckeburg that some of the Oculus folks are blatantly lying about some things and all zuckerburg said was to move the paperwork faster to get signed.

 

[orochi91]

Take my energy, Zenimax! つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

lol

 

[Dreamwriter]

That has basically been Carmack's defence - he did a whole bunch of R&D on Zenimax's dime, they weren't interested in bringing it to market, so he thought he could up and leave to another company because it was 'his'.

I think it's highly likely Zenimax will win this.

His sensor code however was based on code he wrote before he started work at Zenimax. And I haven't heard any arguments yet that he did it during company time - is that true?

Also, the sensor code that Carmack wrote is really only a part of VR technology, while Zenimax is suing for the whole kit and kaboodle.