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caleb1915 · Mar 22, 2014

UnrealEck said:
I'd have to see these examples and proof they weren't just another build of the actual games.
I believe I know what Last of Us demo you're referring to (and why you're referring to it) and that looked like the game to me. To be clear, I wasn't saying flat out it doesn not happen. I am very skeptical it has in this instance.

Here ya go, Halo 2 E3 2003

Bioshock Infinite 2010

And then 2011

Edit: Lol, I'm not sure how I can prove it since I don't want to go digging for interviews from several years ago, but in Bungie interviews they admit that the proclaimed in game footage they showed off wasn't going to be possible on the xbox when it released.

nOoblet16 · Mar 22, 2014

I have around 20 hours in the game and 55 minutes of torch time and may have used 7-8 minutes on top of that to light it for shits and giggles, clearly something went wrong with regards to that.

Raide · Mar 22, 2014

nOoblet16 said:
I have around 20 hours in the game and 55 minutes of torch time and may have used 7-8 minutes on top of that to light it for shits and giggles, clearly something went wrong with regards to that.

Most of the streams I have seen played have hours of Torch time, so something that was such a big part of their overall game idea seems utterly wasted when they had to reduce everything for performance reasons.

soontroll · Mar 22, 2014

Raide said:
Most of the streams I have seen played have hours of Torch time, so something that was such a big part of their overall game idea seems utterly wasted when they had to reduce everything for performance reasons.

Hopefully it's something mods can attempt to fix, even if it doesn't get to the standard of the reveal.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

I'm in a Stream with Namco PR and I asked him about the lighting and differences. His response was "The game looks good and runs well on PC. Everything just looks so clear." He is really vague about the lighting downgrades and saying he doesn't see the differences and said that the pictures from the steam page are supposed to be from the PC version. He said he thinks that the game artsyle did change a bit to a bit lighter than previous. It was kind of a ramble but when the On demand video goes up I'll link the specific time. It's about as close as we've gotten to some answers but it really sounds like the lighting is out.

Metalingus5150 · Mar 23, 2014

Yeah, there are some good designs in the game but woah, it is really inconsistent. Lots of bad textures too.

Cranzor · Mar 23, 2014

I'm hoping that when the PC version is out we can look at this situation in a better light.

Metroid-Squadron · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
I'm in a Stream with Namco PR and I asked him about the lighting and differences. His response was "The game looks good and runs well on PC. Everything just looks so clear." He is really vague about the lighting downgrades and saying he doesn't see the differences and said that the pictures from the steam page are supposed to be from the PC version. He said he thinks that the game artsyle did change a bit to a bit lighter than previous. It was kind of a ramble but when the On demand video goes up I'll link the specific time. It's about as close as we've gotten to some answers but it really sounds like the lighting is out.

So PC version downgrade confirmed.

Sentenza · Mar 23, 2014

Cranzor said:
I'm hoping that when the PC version is out we can look at this situation in a better light.

Well played, sir.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
So PC version downgrade confirmed.

He really kinda seemes either clueless or vague about it but he said he's played and it and it all looks clesr and runs smooth. I'm waiting for the video to come up. He brings up tgs as well.

JaseC · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
So PC version downgrade confirmed.

It was all but confirmed when Scamco added new screenshots to the Steam page that showed the same level design cutbacks as in the retail console versions albeit with slightly less flat lighting. Those who were hoping the PC version would be akin to the vertical slice Scamco had earlier been showing off (hi, Grief

) are in for disappointment.

Kai Dracon · Mar 23, 2014

nOoblet16 said:
I have around 20 hours in the game and 55 minutes of torch time and may have used 7-8 minutes on top of that to light it for shits and giggles, clearly something went wrong with regards to that.

There's one area later in the game that actually is pitch black, using the older style of darkness from Tomb of the Giants in DS1. In that area you're terrified and praying to reach a new sconce to light it, so it's kind of what the game could have been like. Or what they originally intended the whole game to be like.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

JaseC said:
It was all but confirmed when Scamco added new screenshots to the Steam page that showed the same level design cutbacks as in the retail console versions albeit with slightly less flat lighting. Those who were hoping the PC version would be akin to the vertical slice Scamco had earlier been showing off (hi, Grief ) are in for disappointment.

Which vertical slice? TGS or Reveal? I don't think anyone thinks the rveleal is coming but just the the improved lighting. Could be the PR guy just played areas that didn't display the lighting difference so he couldn't see the difference.

These people are still streaming so their on demand video isn't out yet. I was the only person in the chat talking about the lighting. The host were pretty dismissive of the entire thing as well. We'll see.

BishopLamont · Mar 23, 2014

So much from/bamco defense team, they clearly misled people with the stuff they shown leading up to the games release, this is not a one or two year difference, this was a mere few weeks away from the actual game's release. The dumb thing about all this is that it wasn't even necessary, people definitely aren't buying the series for the graphics. I hope all this was worth the extra few sales they gained.

Stone Ocean · Mar 23, 2014

HyperBitHero said:

Jesus christ

Ghazi · Mar 23, 2014

Stone Ocean said:
Jesus christ

I passed that part today, I haven't seen a single texture so far worse than that. It's one texture, don't worry about it.

On the other hand, the pop-in is awful. I'm still pushing From to patch V-sync into the 360 version.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

The Archive is up.

At 1:02 I ask him about the lighting changes in the PC version:

I've seen the PC build in action it looks better the framerate is so smooth and it looks great. I haven't like the super old build that everyone's talking about with the weird lighting the TGS build I haven't seen any comparison shots or anything all I can say is it looks better than the console build.

At 1:04 I ask him if the Screenshots and Videos on the Steampage are from the PC version:

The PC speaking of it I've been meaning to tell someone to update those..we've released I'd say four PC screenshots so far and those are...let me go to the Steampage real quick. The first 5 screenshots are from the PC build, but I dunno for me the biggest difference is just the framerate and the clearness of everything I dunno it looks good(he gets talked over) that's never been something I..honestly it's something I never put any focus on in a Souls game.

The very old TGS demo looks different from the game does but it's not even just graphics I think when they first were developing they planned to have the game be a lot darker and have you use the torch a lot more and I think as they went along they veered towards not abusing it as much.

I think it still looks good. I can understand why some people are confused but they weren't paying very close attention if they first saw the game at the TGS reveal
and then now I mean it's not just like the graphics it's like the style is a little different but that changes as games get developed.

So these screenshots and only these are from the PC build. I think he was talking about the reveal footage when he said really old TGS build and not the newer footage like the one used in the video below. Couldn't link anything in the chat so I couldn't ask if this was or was not the PC footage.
5 things we learned

JaseC · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
Which vertical slice? TGS or Reveal? I don't think anyone thinks the rveleal is coming but just the the improved lighting. Could be the PR guy just played areas that didn't display the lighting difference so he couldn't see the difference.

The latter. To be fair, Grief and... whoever else have somewhat gravitated from hoping for it to hoping for something akin to the TGS build (I don't mean to make an example of him; it's just that he was most active in the downgrade thread within the context of discussing the PC version, plus the topic spilled into the Steam thread here and there, which is where I'm most active, and so he sticks out in my mind), but speaking more broadly some people seem to be under the impression that the reveal build is being kept under wraps to use as the basis for a belated next-gen port/PC re-release, which is really just wishful thinking.

Edit: Though if Scamco were to re-release the game on the PC I imagine it'd be a separate app, which would be fine by me.

pa22word · Mar 23, 2014

The very old TGS demo looks different from the game does but it's not even just graphics I think when they first were developing they planned to have the game be a lot darker and have you use the torch a lot more and I think as they went along they veered towards not abusing it as much.

Welp, that seems to wrap it up on the PC version. Universal downgrade pretty much confirmed

Metalingus5150 · Mar 23, 2014

It seems like the PC version will just be the console version but at whatever resolution and higher framerate plus better textures.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

pa22word said:
Welp, that seems to wrap it up on the PC version. Universal downgrade pretty much confirmed

I'ms till confused because he said super old TGS build not demo let me fix that. I think he was talking about the reveal footage the entire time. Not the last build that been used on previews up to launch.

Metroid-Squadron · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
I'ms till confused because he said super old TGS build not demo let me fix that. I think he was talking about the reveal footage the entire time. Not the last build that been used on previews up to launch.

The April PC reveal looks pretty much on par with the TGS demo.

This needs it's own thread or at least a title change for this one.

JaseC · Mar 23, 2014

I wonder if Scamco will release a PC launch trailer in light of all the controversy and uncertainty.

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
The April PC reveal looks pretty much on par with the TGS demo.

This needs it's own thread or at least a title change for this one.

It's just all kinda messy to be honest. I just want to know if the PC version will look like what was played on the Playstation video or not.

I'll buy it regardless cause I'm sure the game will still look good at higher resolutions but I wish they would just release a damn PC video already to put it to rest. How different do those screenshots look compared to the console version?

Tagyhag · Mar 23, 2014

Metalingus5150 said:
It seems like the PC version will just be the console version but at whatever resolution and higher framerate plus better textures.

It's so....Bittersweet :[

Yay competent port, but you couldn't go for that little extra Namco? You can't use hardware as an excuse this time.

Oh well, this will all be laid out on the table come April.

Havel · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
The Archive is up.

At 1:02 I ask him about the lighting changes in the PC version:

At 1:04 I ask him if the Screenshots and Videos on the Steampage are from the PC version:

So these screenshots and only these are from the PC build. I think he was talking about the reveal footage when he said really old TGS build and not the newer footage like the one used in the video below. Couldn't link anything in the chat so I couldn't ask if this was or was not the PC footage.
5 things we learned

From this...I think we need to accept defeat.

God damn it.

Metalingus5150 · Mar 23, 2014

Havel said:
From this...I think we need to accept defeat.

God damn it.

You Defeated

pa22word · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
I'ms till confused because he said super old TGS build not demo let me fix that. I think he was talking about the reveal footage the entire time. Not the last build that been used on previews up to launch.

If those shots are indeed final then yes the downgrade was universal. It looks exactly like the console version just upressed. Hell that shot in the well at majula is even missing the fucking specular reflections on the torches that the initial showing of the PC version had=\

ffs I think those shots are even missing SSAO. I'm on my tablet atm and thus can't confirm, but I honestly do not think it has SSAO. Which given how heavily it's featured in some of those shots on the steam store page, I can't believe they'd rip it out for any other reason than to force pairity with the console version.

If those shots are truly representative of the PC version, then fuck fromsoft and fuck namco. They don't deserve my money for this pointlessly neutered game.

Akainu · Mar 23, 2014

Grief?! Grief?! Are you ok? Grief!? GREEEEIF!!!

Caffeine · Mar 23, 2014

we are gonna need a lighting mod. from software am cry

Havel · Mar 23, 2014

pa22word said:
If those shots are indeed final then yes the downgrade was universal. It looks exactly like the console version just upressed. Hell that shot in the well at majula is even missing the fucking specular reflections on the torches that the initial showing of the PC version had=\

It's funny. From always said the PC version was the lead platform this time around. But in the end, it looks like they ended up porting the console shortcomings to PC.

I still have hope.

epmode · Mar 23, 2014

Havel said:
From this...I think we need to accept defeat.

God damn it.

Don't worry, you can buy a version with the originally intended lighting when the Definitive Edition is released for PS4. After all, you can't expect EVERYONE to have a $5000 PC with tri-SLI Titans!

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

Reposting for new page:
The Archive is up.

At 1:02 I ask him about the lighting changes in the PC version:

I've seen the PC build in action it looks better the framerate is so smooth and it looks great. I haven't like the super old build that everyone's talking about with the weird lighting the TGS build I haven't seen any comparison shots or anything all I can say is it looks better than the console build.

At 1:04 I ask him if the Screenshots and Videos on the Steampage are from the PC version:

The PC speaking of it I've been meaning to tell someone to update those..we've released I'd say four PC screenshots so far and those are...let me go to the Steampage real quick. The first 5 screenshots are from the PC build, but I dunno for me the biggest difference is just the framerate and the clearness of everything I dunno it looks good(he gets talked over) that's never been something I..honestly it's something I never put any focus on in a Souls game.

The very old TGS demo looks different from the game does but it's not even just graphics I think when they first were developing they planned to have the game be a lot darker and have you use the torch a lot more and I think as they went along they veered towards not abusing it as much.

I think it still looks good. I can understand why some people are confused but they weren't paying very close attention if they first saw the game at the TGS reveal
and then now I mean it's not just like the graphics it's like the style is a little different but that changes as games get developed.

So these screenshots and only these are from the PC build. I'm kicking myself for not being able to link the video below. He was confusing me because when be brought up TGS he called it build, demo then reveal. So at first I was thinking he meant the video down below but towards the end I'm pretty sure he meant the reveal. The video below looks like a lit up higher res console version right? At best I was hoping for this.

5 things we learned

Metroid-Squadron · Mar 23, 2014

CountAntonius said:
I'm kicking myself for not being able to link the video below. He was confusing me because when be brought up TGS he called it build, demo then reveal. So at first I was thinking he mean the video down below but towards the end I'm pretty sure he meant the reveal. The video below looks like a lit up higher res console version right? At best I was hoping for this.

5 Things

The reveal looks pretty much like that video with the exception of some specular effects on walls (looked wet/slimy in the reveal).

CountAntonius · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
The reveal looks pretty much like that video with the exception of some specular effects on walls (looked wet/slimy in the reveal).

Ah I always thought this looked like retail without the fancy lighting.

Ah well at least my expectations are on check now and I can look forward to a DS Console to DSFix level improvement from what I've seen so far.

Metroid-Squadron · Mar 23, 2014

Dark Souls 1 looks better than Dark Souls 2:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15539352@N02/sets/72157634774669900/

Varna · Mar 23, 2014

Really disappointing. Why do we have to wait an extra month and a half?

EDIT: I still can't believe the beautiful details obscured by console image quality in Dark Souls. I wonder if DS2 will have similar quality assets...

Havel · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
Dark Souls 1 looks better than Dark Souls 2:

S-stop...

pa22word · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
Dark Souls 1 looks better than Dark Souls 2:

I don't think it's that cut and dry. Any areas in Dark Souls 2 that relied heavily on the real time lighting shading them to give them proper detail and hide certain things that were never meant to be seen look like garbage in the final game. Other areas that they either had time to rework without the lighting or weren't very reliant on it to begin with look okay-to-better than Dark Souls 1 did.

Jonm1010 · Mar 23, 2014

I really can't believe how much crap has transpired with this game.

Frankly if the PC version isn't a fair representation of what was revealed to us in earlier builds I am completely comfortable skipping this game completely. Other then a bullshit attempt at parity there is no excuse to carry the downgrades over to the PC. That coming from someone that puts Demons Souls and Dark Souls near the top of my list for best games of last gen.

What is really a shame is that any protest could hurt the chances of getting any future titles in the series but not protesting just encourages these deceitful practices. It's a shitty catch-22 but that's where I am at.

I really was hoping this would be one of the franchises that successfully makes the transition from one gen to the next and retains a high level of quality and fanfare but at this point I have my doubts.

Anteater · Mar 23, 2014

The PC speaking of it I've been meaning to tell someone to update those..we've released I'd say four PC screenshots so far and those are...let me go to the Steampage real quick. The first 5 screenshots are from the PC build, but I dunno for me the biggest difference is just the framerate and the clearness of everything I dunno it looks good(he gets talked over) that's never been something I..honestly it's something I never put any focus on in a Souls game.

The very old TGS demo looks different from the game does but it's not even just graphics I think when they first were developing they planned to have the game be a lot darker and have you use the torch a lot more and I think as they went along they veered towards not abusing it as much.
I think it still looks good. I can understand why some people are confused but they weren't paying very close attention if they first saw the game at the TGS reveal
and then now I mean it's not just like the graphics it's like the style is a little different but that changes as games get developed.

So it's probably just going to be the console ver with better image quality and textures

Scrooged · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
Dark Souls 1 looks better than Dark Souls 2:

Dark Souls 1 (PC) looked better than Dark Souls 1 (console).

Come back in a month and make your comparisons.

Anteater · Mar 23, 2014

If the texture quality is consistent for the pc ver I don't think it's going to look worse than ds1

Metroid-Squadron · Mar 23, 2014

Scrooged said:
Dark Souls 1 (PC) looked better than Dark Souls 1 (console).

Come back in a month and make your comparisons.

The screenshots at the top of the page are from the PC version.

akira28 · Mar 23, 2014

Metroid-Squadron said:
The screenshots at the top of the page are from the PC version.

yeah but they're probably not downsampled at all. probably 1080 at best.

impact · Mar 23, 2014

akira28 said:
yeah but they're probably not downsampled at all. probably 1080 at best.

Those are definitely downsampled. I don't see the point in comparing Dark Souls 1 PC to Dark Souls 2 PS360. Let's try this again on April 25th.

Anteater · Mar 23, 2014

impact said:
Those are definitely downsampled. I don't see the point in comparing Dark Souls 1 PC to Dark Souls 2 PS360. Let's try this again on April 25th.

I think he's talking about the DS2 PC screenshots posted by CountAntonius that are on the steam store, they seem to be just 1080p and will most likely look better at higher res and with better lighting condition.

greenfish · Mar 23, 2014

This is beyond ridiculous. Are you telling me there's not a single ENGLISH speaking PR/DEV in that company? What do you mean the first 5 pictures? The company put up all pictures there for a purpose. Are you telling me some of those pictures arern't real?

If so then this game needs to be flagged for fraud on steam, taken down from the store. I honestly don't care how the PC version looks like, but I do expect it to look EXACTLY like the MTF pictures the company put on the steam store.

Can't belive this thread is already too big. How hard can it be to ask someone at FROM? They don't have a PHONE/Twitter/Email?

I have paid for this game, if the game looks like nothing like it does on steam store, I will do a credit chargeback and if steam punishes me for it, I will visit FROM office and demand a major refund.

Sentenza · Mar 23, 2014

greenfish said:
If so then this game needs to be flagged for fraud on steam, taken down from the store. I honestly don't care how the PC version looks like...

And this is exactly why, while I think the downgrade is massive and embarrassing for From, I also think some of you guys are going a bit too crazy on it.

Eusis · Mar 23, 2014

TucoBenedictoPacifico said:
And this is exactly why, while I think the downgrade is massive and embarrassing for From, I also think some of you guys are going a bit too crazy on it.

Yeah. I wonder if there's something of an echo chamber effect though; the more you focus on this and with other people, the more it looks terrible. When it's something that you'd otherwise probably forget easily, I understand it being a disappointment but to be that angry really is crazy, and at least it wasn't 100% BS in every regard. I think the two biggest omissions gameplay-wise was moving a character elsewhere (probably balance concerns, those axe throwing enemies ARE in the game still) and

axing the drake destroying the bridge on you far as I know

, which honestly came off as some of the biggest BS I'd ever seen anyway without any trick you're meant to use. Even the torch stuff's probably a mix of the two: still there, but was going to be too BS at the prior planned levels.

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