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[RK9039]

Maybe piracy and other crap excuses.
Maybe getting as many unpatient consuming addicts to double dip.

Double dippers?

I'm glad I didn't double dip this time. I'm also glad I'm paying half price for this game.

 

[MHWilliams]

This is beyond ridiculous. Are you telling me there's not a single ENGLISH speaking PR/DEV in that company? What do you mean the first 5 pictures? The company put up all pictures there for a purpose. Are you telling me some of those pictures arern't real?

If so then this game needs to be flagged for fraud on steam, taken down from the store. I honestly don't care how the PC version looks like, but I do expect it to look EXACTLY like the MTF pictures the company put on the steam store.

Can't belive this thread is already too big. How hard can it be to ask someone at FROM? They don't have a PHONE/Twitter/Email?

I have paid for this game, if the game looks like nothing like it does on steam store, I will do a credit chargeback and if steam punishes me for it, I will visit FROM office and demand a major refund.

You realize all they have to do is not answer, right? There is no law that requires them to release any further statement or clarification.

 

[Hydranockz]

Crunch period is for finishing details and optimization, not level design.

I would call removing things so that the game can run in a stable manner optimization At least you agree as to what crunch can end up in.

 

[CountAntonius]

You realize all they have to do is not answer, right? There is no law that requires them to release any further statement or clarification.

The way the PR guy said so casually I've been meaning to ask someone to update those shows me it's just an oversight and they don't understand the outrage. Why would they, even on the stream the chat and hosts were like yeah what are people complaining about. This whole thing is falling on deaf ears. Most people will still buy the game regardless. I don't agree with the way it was handled but it's clear there is a very vocal minority who is being largely ignored.

 

[Pie and Beans]

The closer and closer we get to the PC version, the more I feel so deeply saddened there is an even more superior version of DSII thats a version that doesn't exist outside of that demo space. It is perhaps one of the most insane examples of inefficient game development out there (alongside the great Halo 2 and Bioshock Infinite examples posted a lot before).

Perhaps even more mad is this is what From did with the Painted World and imagine if that had been cut as well as originally intended at some point.

The mystery remains just what the fuck is the PC version going to end up being. Heaven help them if its as shitty looking as the console release just at a higher framerate/resolution.

 

[Akainu]

1) Indeed it does: EARLY BOSS SPOILER: http://i.imgur.com/dBAHJy2.gif Amazing hit detection.

They have online bosses?

 

[eot]

It looks so pretty.

That one really doesn't.

 

[Mengy]

Letting the consumers wallow in ignorance gives the publishers power.

See, that's what I don't get. What power does it give them? The power to turn consumers off? The power to create consumer backlash? In today's world of the internet and everyone talking, and every piece of media being archived for later use, honesty and respect just seem like the best long term policies to me.

The only thing lies ever do is ruin relationships, both personal and professional.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned or somethin. Either way I'm not buying nor pre-ordering the PC version until I know what's up with it. And if I'm not satisfied with it then I'll either skip it and just keep playing DS1 or I'll wait for a super steam sale.

 

[Sid]

I hope they push forward the release of the PC version to curb some of the backlash,downgrades are bad but I need this game now.

The closer and closer we get to the PC version, the more I feel so deeply saddened there is an even more superior version of DSII thats a version that doesn't exist outside of that demo space. It is perhaps one of the most insane examples of inefficient game development out there (alongside the great Halo 2 and Bioshock Infinite examples posted a lot before).

Perhaps even more mad is this is what From did with the Painted World and imagine if that had been cut as well as originally intended at some point.

The mystery remains just what the fuck is the PC version going to end up being. Heaven help them if its as shitty looking as the console release just at a higher framerate/resolution.

What did they do with the Painted World?

 

[RedSwirl]

This is beyond ridiculous. Are you telling me there's not a single ENGLISH speaking PR/DEV in that company? What do you mean the first 5 pictures? The company put up all pictures there for a purpose. Are you telling me some of those pictures arern't real?

If so then this game needs to be flagged for fraud on steam, taken down from the store. I honestly don't care how the PC version looks like, but I do expect it to look EXACTLY like the MTF pictures the company put on the steam store.

Can't belive this thread is already too big. How hard can it be to ask someone at FROM? They don't have a PHONE/Twitter/Email?

I have paid for this game, if the game looks like nothing like it does on steam store, I will do a credit chargeback and if steam punishes me for it, I will visit FROM office and demand a major refund.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if none of the developers at FROM speak English.

Pretty much everything you've heard in English so far regarding this game has been from Namco.

 

[Akainu]

Double dippers?

I don't pity them.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Why just that one? How about these too:

And more.

Wow this one is such bullshit, having just gotten to that area last night that screenshot makes me sad

 

[Garcia]

Heaven help them if its as shitty looking as the console release just at a higher framerate/resolution.

Before I started playing the game I still had hopes for a superior PC version being kept in the dark. As I continued to make progress, that hope began to slowly fade away; I even had to share my disappointment with the Steambros and sis because, as sad as it is, that demo is nothing but a small piece of "what could have been".

The game is a beast. It is twice as big as the original Dark Souls and it is pretty clear the entire project bit their asses halfway during development. The "hasty" design choices we see thrown in here and there do not reflect a last minute performance or optimization phase. To me, the lack of cohesion and coherence between most areas is just puzzling. This is just a theory of mine but apparently they worked on many individual area separately and much later on they started to construct the world, not the other way around. It is the only explanation I can find as to why those hideous areas exist (and why Dark Souls 1 is far superior as a game than the sequel). There are no shortcuts that connect any adjacent areas, just ugly/generic corridors, halls, elevators and ladders.

The superior demo wasn't even supposed to exist from the beginning and both developers and publishers should stop pulling that crap in order to generate hype and land thousands of pre-orders.

 

[eot]

What did they do with the Painted World?

Not sure if this is what he meant, but it started off as a prototype for the game, then they intended to use it as Nito's zone but they scrapped that idea. That's why it's in a painting, because it doesn't fit anywhere in the game world but they still wanted to keep the level.

 

[Bor]

Screenshots in the Japanese website are from retail build
http://darksouls.jp/pc/index.html#products

i see tonnes of bs screens on that page.

 

[Raven77]

Like I said previously...

Nobody that is currently defending FROM / NAMCO could possibly justify them having pre-downgrade shots STILL ON THEIR WEBSITE.

It would take a web developer intern 30-45 seconds to change them out.

But why would they want to? People who defend this stuff allow them to get away with it. Why hurt your own sales when you can just keep deceiving would-be customers.

I for one will not buy this game, not now, not ever, unless they officially apologize. I don't really care how amazing it may be, I simply can't support a company that deceives its customers to this degree.

 

[Hydranockz]

Like I said previously...

Nobody that is currently defending FROM / NAMCO could possibly justify them having pre-downgrade shots STILL ON THEIR WEBSITE.

It would take a web developer intern 30-45 seconds to change them out.

But why would they want to? People who defend this stuff allow them to get away with it. Why hurt your own sales when you can just keep deceiving would-be customers.

I for one will not buy this game, not now, not ever, unless they officially apologize. I don't really care how amazing it may be, I simply can't support a company that deceives its customers to this degree.

I'm sorry but as easy as it might be to change the screenshots on one site, you'd still have the same screenshots popping up on review sites all over the net. It's not as easy as "take it down". It's a matter for the marketing team to deal with and frankly, it is not nearly worth the effort for them. The marketing assets were secured weeks.months ago and then distributed. What benefit is there for them to try and change those assets now?

 

[MHWilliams]

The way the PR guy said so casually I've been meaning to ask someone to update those shows me it's just an oversight and they don't understand the outrage. Why would they, even on the stream the chat and hosts were like yeah what are people complaining about. This whole thing is falling on deaf ears. Most people will still buy the game regardless. I don't agree with the way it was handled but it's clear there is a very vocal minority who is being largely ignored.

Oh, I agree they're handling in a poor manner, as transparency is the best policy. I was merely replying to the idea that all you have to do is contact them or ask a simple question and they'll answer. That's not how it works.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Not sure if this is what he meant, but it started off as a prototype for the game, then they intended to use it as Nito's zone but they scrapped that idea. That's why it's in a painting, because it doesn't fit anywhere in the game world but they still wanted to keep the level.

Mmm, and that I think it was suggested at one point it came close to the chop but they managed to plonk it back in. It's one of the games most atmospheric and beautiful areas, so imagine if they'd shown that first and then nothing like it cropped up. To be fair Dark Souls 1 still had many other great looking environments and only Darkroot and Lost Izalith stick out as the shit. Its lighting engine wasn't gutted in the eleventh hour either, making for a more cohesive game.

Before I started playing the game I still had hopes for a superior PC version being kept in the dark. As I continued to make progress, that hope began to slowly fade away; I even had to share my disappointment with the Steambros and sis because, as sad as it is, that demo is nothing but a small piece of "what could have been".

The game is a beast. It is twice as big as the original Dark Souls and it is pretty clear the entire project bit their asses halfway during development. The "hasty" design choices we see thrown in here and there do not reflect a last minute performance or optimization phase. To me, the lack of cohesion and coherence between most areas is just puzzling. This is just a theory of mine but apparently they worked on many individual area separately and much later on they started to construct the world, not the other way around. It is the only explanation I can find as to why those hideous areas exist (and why Dark Souls 1 is far superior as a game than the sequel). There are no shortcuts that connect any adjacent areas, just ugly/generic corridors, halls, elevators and ladders.

The superior demo wasn't even supposed to exist from the beginning and both developers and publishers should stop pulling that crap in order to generate hype and land thousands of pre-orders.

Its more the lighting and the torch issue more than anything I'm hoping to be rectified and thus create the "closer to what was always intended" version of the game we can get.

I've had other friends tell me the level design is just total butt which is deeply saddening so I guess I'm going to just be in this game for the combat and lore, while Dark Souls was the full package. Hell, sounds like Demon's Souls also had far better design with its many gate opening 'breakthroughs' and pretty cool designs.

Got to wonder now if Miyazaki was the main guy responsible for that level of care and approach to the titles, or has anyone else done a Credit Compare to see who else is missing/working with Miyazaki on his much rumoured thing and wasn't on this?

 

[CountAntonius]

Oh, I agree they're handling in a poor manner, as transparency is the best policy. I was merely replying to the idea that all you have to do is contact them or ask a simple question and they'll answer. That's not how it works.

I agree. I was actually surprised the guy answered my questions on twitch at all.

 

[epmode]

What benefit is there for them to try and change those assets now?

I never understand why gaffers who supposedly play videogames love to look at things from the perspective of corporate beancounters instead of their own.

The benefit, Hydranockz, is that prospective consumers would be able to make a properly informed decision on whether or not to purchase the game.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

I'm sorry but as easy as it might be to change the screenshots on one site, you'd still have the same screenshots popping up on review sites all over the net. It's not as easy as "take it down". It's a matter for the marketing team to deal with and frankly, it is not nearly worth the effort for them. The marketing assets were secured weeks.months ago and then distributed. What benefit is there for them to try and change those assets now?

They wouldn't have to change anything if FROM hadn't provided BS media in the first place.

 

[Garcia]

I agree. I was actually surprised the guy answered my questions on twitch at all.

I watched that part of the stream and it was a very fun coincidence to see them hanging at one of the worst looking spots in the whole game. I was laughing because it seems they were consciously trying to evade the background by circling the camera around, keeping it always focused on the floor.

Also, yes, he was really casual about it. I was surprised by his tone.

 

[Massa]

I never understand why gaffers who supposedly play videogames love to look at things from the perspective of corporate beancounters instead of their own.

The benefit, Hydranockz, is that prospective consumers would be able to make a properly informed decision on whether or not to purchase the game.

Some people don't live in a world where it's consumers vs corporations, and they'll often look at things through a perspective different than yours.

 

[epmode]

Some people don't live in a world where it's consumers vs corporations

Sounds like a nice place.

 

[Stet]

Some people don't live in a world where it's consumers vs corporations, and they'll often look at things through a perspective different than yours.

The Painted World of Massa

 

[Hydranockz]

I never understand why gaffers who supposedly play videogames love to look at things from the perspective of corporate beancounters instead of their own.

The benefit, Hydranockz, is that prospective consumers would be able to make a properly informed decision on whether or not to purchase the game.

That's a benefit purely for the customer. You gotta meet the devs at least somewhere in the middle. There won't be any more sales to come out of it. Would they even gain the respect of this vocal minority of fans? Not even that much is guaranteed really.

You want Bamco to get From to take the time to resubmit media assets, go through the process of approving said assets, recontacting the press sites and asking them to edit their press releases to contain these new, graphically inferior screenshots that only a vocal minority will even know the differences between? What happens if some sites change it and others don't? What if they simply add these new assets in with the old?

The screenshots are out there. It's too late to try to cover that up.

 

[Raven77]

That's a benefit purely for the customer. You gotta meet the devs at least somewhere in the middle. There won't be any more sales to come out of it. Would they even gain the respect of this vocal minority of fans? Not even that much is guaranteed really.

You want Bamco to get From to take the time to resubmit media assets, go through the process of approving said assets, recontacting the press sites and asking them to edit their press releases to contain these new, graphically inferior screenshots that only a vocal minority will even know the differences between? What happens if some sites change it and others don't? What if they simply add these new assets in with the old?

The screenshots are out there. It's too late to try to cover that up.

Funny you say that, because if they did start to, you know, make an effort to ensure their game is marketed properly (business ethics...) then yes, it WOULD make a difference because, well, I would go out and buy the game probably.

The fact that they make no effort means, to me, that they are perfectly fine with deceiving their customers. Why some people are okay with this, is simply beyond my understanding.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

PC downgrade confirmed? fuck

The real beta starts here

 

[Hydranockz]

Funny you say that, because if they did start to, you know, make an effort to ensure their game is marketed properly (business ethics...) then yes, it WOULD make a difference because, well, I would go out and buy the game probably.

The fact that they make no effort means, to me, that they are perfectly fine with deceiving their customers. Why some people are okay with this, is simply beyond my understanding.

The fact that you make no effort to understand means, to me, that you are perfectly fine at ignoring the process and benefit of changing the screenshots.

At least try and pretend you see where I am coming from.

 

[Deadstar]

PC downgrade confirmed? fuck

The real beta starts here

The real Durante starts here.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

The fact that you make no effort to understand means, to me, that you are perfectly fine at ignoring the process and benefit of changing the screenshots.

At least try and pretend you see where I am coming from.

I told you before. They wouldn't have to change anything if FROM had been honest from the beginning.

 

[Caffeine]

i still dont understand downgrading pc version lmao just increase the requirements. unless it was never the platform original developed for and now its getting a port. conspiracy

 

[masterkajo]

I haven't been around for a while and am not up to speed, but has it really been confirmed that the PC version will also be "downgraded" / similar to the console version apart from high res texture and FPS? No nice eye-candy effects and lighting?

 

[CountAntonius]

i still dont understand downgrading pc version lmao just increase the requirements. unless it was never the platform original developed for and now its getting a port. conspiracy

Who says it's a port? The best we were ever going to get was what we are getting plus better lighting. It's like people think they scrapped the PC version. The console versions are the ports and that's why they struggle to maintain a consistent framerate.

 

[Caffeine]

I haven't been around for a while and am not up to speed, but has it really been confirmed that the PC version will also be "downgraded" / similar to the console version apart from high res texture and FPS? No nice eye-candy effects and lighting?

yes pretty much.

 

[AlphaProspector]

i still dont understand downgrading pc version lmao just increase the requirements. unless it was never the platform original developed for and now its getting a port. conspiracy

I think a couple of pages ago someone posted something where the word "port" was mentioned. I can't find it now but it is a grim perspective if true... Guess we'll find out the truth once we reach April 25th and Durante (if of course he wants, he has already done way too much) or someone else cracks open this game and unveils the mysteries behind its rendering and whatever functions or features it's using or not using, the textures, the sounds and more. In fact, I'm surprised nobody is opening the PS3 or 360 game discs to start scanning the files in the disc. I bet nobody wants to find something like hidden on disc DLC or something, right? Maybe I'm too used to playing on PC where I just have access to all the files and such.

More and more I think it's kind of an ominous premonition (or a deadly one?) that my pre-order had a bug and I had to cancel it last week... Got the refund and I was planning to retry my PC pre-order but I'm not so sure now.

P.S.: I shouldn't have clicked that spoiler gif, dammit, but upon seeing it again, the lighting also appears to be very flat there.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I think that the darkness mechanic was taken out in certain areas as well as the graphics were downgraded.

 

[Riposte]

I never understand why gaffers who supposedly play videogames love to look at things from the perspective of corporate beancounters instead of their own.

The benefit, Hydranockz, is that prospective consumers would be able to make a properly informed decision on whether or not to purchase the game.

I don't think having the perspective of a self-interested beancounter is much better in terms of getting in the way of loving to play videogames.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

The real Durante starts here.

Can this be the OT title for the PC release?

 

[Hydranockz]

I told you before. They wouldn't have to change anything if FROM had been honest from the beginning.

The media assets were obviously submitted and apporved before the downgrade took place. Isn't that obvious?

 

[legacyzero]

Can we call upon you, once more, blessed Durante?

 

[CountAntonius]

Can we call upon you, once more, blessed Durante?

To do what? The game is already high res and 60fps. Is he supposed to create new assets and implement a lighting engine that was removed?

 

[Raide]

To do what? The game is already high res and 60fps. Is he supposed to create new assets and implement a lighting engine that was removed?

So the rumours go. Durante can do more than some resolution tweaks but hopefully the game does not need it but if the consoles versions are anything to go by, I think it will need some work.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

Can we call upon you, once more, blessed Durante?

you have to find his summon sign first.

 

[legacyzero]

To do what? The game is already high res and 60fps. Is he supposed to create new assets and implement a lighting engine that was removed?

Give that shit some AO, for one

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Woo boy if the PC version is downgraded as well, I'll never buy another FROM game again (including avoiding DaS2). False advertising out their asses. I can't support that bullshit.

 

[Garcia]

So the rumours go. Durante can do more than some resolution tweaks but hopefully the game does not need it but if the consoles versions are anything to go by, I think it will need some work.

The game will require several Durantes to reach its full potential. It's not just "unlocking" the beauty of the game; Dark Souls 2 needs some heavy duty cosmetic surgery.

 

[imtehman]

I haven't been around for a while and am not up to speed, but has it really been confirmed that the PC version will also be "downgraded" / similar to the console version apart from high res texture and FPS? No nice eye-candy effects and lighting?

consoles holding back the PC man.

 

[Ghazi]

So, the lighting is enabled during realtime cutscenes, right? Can it not just be re-enabled for the whole game? I understand that sounds stupid, and probably is not as simple.