XANDER CAGE
Member
You know, I do actually wonder if there's a way Durante or someone else might be able to find a way to make the nicer cutscene dynamic lighting apply everywhere in the game, or if that'd even work.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
You know, I do actually wonder if there's a way Durante or someone else might be able to find a way to make the nicer cutscene dynamic lighting apply everywhere in the game, or if that'd even work.
I'm afraid that's above their pay-grade (of 0$ a year).
Garcia
Member
I'm sure we'll get a much better looking PC version of the game down the road thanks to the modding community. Adding some of the original lighting back will probably be top priority.
Kevin Shields
Member
I went to this game blind because I hadn't played video games for a good 4-5 months and this thread is first I heard of controversy. Ha people are pretty pissed about this huh? Glad I didn't know about it because I am loving the game. Although graphics don't bother me that much because it's the aspect of games that will probably be dated the fastest...
EatinOlives
Member
Really bummed about the latest news. No way I'm buying this day 1 like I was originally going to. I'll wait until it's on a Steam sale at sub-$10.
You blew it, From. Nobody aside from a minority of fans will dare call you out on it, but you really did blow it with this game and your ambitions. And you don't even want to admit it.
You blew it, From. Nobody aside from a minority of fans will dare call you out on it, but you really did blow it with this game and your ambitions. And you don't even want to admit it.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Unless somebody rewrites the renderer you're not getter better lighting.
Prime crotch
Banned
please durante, rewrite the whole game to my liking, I'll facebook friend you or somethin
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Media assets pertaining a tech demo instead of the actual product.
Hydranockz
Member
Nonsense. Media assets pertaining to how the game looked at the time. That's how the game looked. But obviously it didn't play at a quality the devs were happy with.
Wait, confirmed where? What did i miss?
EDIT: Just saw Count Antonius post. sigh.
Tesseract
Banned
source?
Hydranockz
Member
He calls the TGS stuff a tech demo because it only showcased a small portion of the game and didn't have the performance issues that the whole game had at the time that From were trying to resolve but couldn't in the end, hence the downgrade.
They forgot to update the Steam page! oops.
Also forgot to update the official website and the back of the box, oops!
CadetMahoney
Member
lol
We need a super hero team of Durante's each with their own unique abilities and talents.
It's the only way to save.
Dey is dat dere forgetfulness.
CountAntonius
Member
Kinda think we should play the game or wait for footage before calling it a complete failure desperately in need of fixing.
Lol this got me real good.
Indeed, but at this point, given the complete lack of transparency, i'm not buying it on D1.
If someone wants to go ahead and be a guinea pig, however, they have my thanks.
Caffeine
Member
I already payed it off so I'm gonna give it a go when it arrives but my expectations are console level right now.
CountAntonius
Member
Will be me most likely. I haven't played the console versions but from the vids and streams I could handle the graphics in 1080p 60fps. Barring any major technical failures It won't stop me from playing and enjoying the game as long as it doesn't suck for other reasons.
EatinOlives
Member
Pretty sure that's what people were saying just before the console versions launched.
People were wondering if the PC version was going to be any different from the console versions. They all but confirmed that is not the case. If that's what's disappointing people, what exactly do they need to wait until release for?
Messofanego
Banned
Oh they dun goofed now!
I have never seen enemies "pop in" in 50 hours of gameplay so far and if you really think torches are useless then no you haven't played the game. Not only are they light sources but they drive enemies back giving you a bit of breathing room. Even in areas that are otherwise visible like Lost Bastille they are still extremely useful. Furthermore there are quite a few places in the game where torches are still required for lighting: No Man's Wharf, parts of Huntsman's Copse, Brightsone Cove, Drangleic Castle. The Gutter, Black Gulch (set fire to the pools of acid) and the list goes on. I don't understand this incessant need to whine about "teh downgradez" things change during optimization. Shit happens.
ENB stated in one of his walkthrough videos that the effects were in beta builds of the game but were later removed in order to boost and smooth out the framerate. Personally I would ratehr have a solid frame rate (24 - 30fps) in my Dark Souls games than fancy lighting effects. Souls games were never intended to be graphical showcases.
Exactly this.
I seriously doubt so many people would be complaining if they actually played the game. I have had an absolute blast with it so far. Dual wielding is the shit.
Garcia
Member
The reduced loading times are a big selling point for the PC version and a very good reason to avoid the console releases completely. Summoning, dying and warping are abundant in this game.
CountAntonius
Member
Yeah watching the load times on Stream drives me nuts. They are crazy long.
If the downgrade is in full force, i'll still get it, but at a big sale.
Facism
Member
I've seen enemies pop in a number of times.
one enemy type in one area, but yes a good example of the gameplay uses of light and torches.
Indeed. Though these places are perfectly visible without a torch, carrying one helps immensely and adds to the atmosphere.
Then you're missing the point and being dismissive about the issue at the same time.
It's obvious that they had to do something to get the workmanlike framerate for the release game. The problem is there was a lack of communication and the materials used to promote the game aren't representative of the final product. I'm sure the dev has some artistic intention in regards to atmosphere and setting that got compromised.
ok.
I actually liked how Durante refused to fix MG Rising (and the PC port is still full of bugs)
Durante or ENB need to not fix this as From and Namco deserve to lose PC gamers money this time if they fucked this port.
AlphaProspector
Member
So much for lead platform... Isn't the PC version supposed to be the lead one? How it's a port then?
It supposed to be... but after all this I know to not trust From words at all on anything related to this game's development.
Raven77
Member
I see where your coming from, the benefit of them not changing the screenshots is that they sell more copies...
Why a consumer would be okay with this unethical business practice is beyond me.
I can't speak for your gameplay experience I can only speak for my own and I haven't seen a single enemy "pop in." I've seen enemies drop from above, come alive from corpses on the ground and pop out from under sand and acid but I haven't seen a single enemy pop into existence.
No not just one enemy type. It works with the dogs, skellies and scythe dudes in Last Bastille, It works with the creepy ass eye creatures in Black Gulch, it works with ANY zombie type creature but does not work with most armored units. No Man's Wharf is one of MANY examples of it in the game.
The Gutter is not possible without a torch at all. Unless you artificially increase your brightness. The other areas might be possible but not if you want to see side paths and hidden pharros lockstones etc etc. In short the torch is used to good effect in multiple areas throughout the game. Denying such is just an outright lie.
I'm not missing the point. I'm loving the game and logging into GAF to see people screaming bloody murder about lighting and graphical flourishes in a game that, up until a recent PC release, nobody even thought to buy for graphics. The gameplay is solid and fun. The framerate, whcih frankly was the only thing I was concerned about going in, is incredibly solid. So far the only gameplay issues I have experienced are a slow loading menu screen which I beleive to be due to loading more items on screen at once (previous entries limited the number of items viewable per screen) and consistently long loading screens which annoy the everliving fuck out of me. I find the agility mechanic and how it increases general responsiveness in battle really awesome and I'd wager most of the people complaining about slow movement or laggy combat have just not invested much if any into agility. It makes a HUGE difference. So, in short, no I didn't miss the point I Just find the point sad when the game itself is a ton of fun. I wish people would stop having aneurysms about graphics and play the damn game.
Yes the game does look different than the reveal and promotional materials but why does this matter? I guess I just always assumed the PS3/360 versions weren't going to blow me away and that the footage shown was likely a PC build or unoptimized. So I wasn't surprised when they weren't the same. Furthermore, I don't understand why a graphical downgrade in a souls game is such a big deal. I was far more concerned about the gameplay and the lore both of which from has delivered in abundance with DaS2. I wasn't buying the game Day one for the graphics anyway.
As far as "artistic intention" I'd wager the game, although looking amazing, was not that fun to play with low lighting. The Gutter is my least favorite area of the game specifically because of the low light. It feels cheap from a gameplay aspect. Visually it looks awesome but as a player it really frustrated me. I can't even begin to imagine how annoying it owuldve been if the majority of the game was like the Tomb of the Giants in the first Dark Souls. I'd have screamed at my screen and just given up on it. I'd imagine they were getting the same feedback from beta testers about the low light situation. ENB even states they were in the habit of boosting brightness everytime they played the beta builds and German Spy says that the brightness was boosted for all the screen shots in guide as well. I'd imagine From took notice of that and I'm glad that the torch is useful but not required for 80% of the game. Frankly it would've been a chore otherwise.
In Forest of Giants, down the ladder from the bonfire in the Cardinal Tower there is a hole in a wall leading out on a tree branch where, if you let enemies pass the hole from the outside, they sometimes vanish for a brief moment only to reappear right in front of you, and sometimes they simply don't reappear at all. Also, there is a place just past the second bonfire in Shrine of Amana where enemies consistently appear and disappear (in T pose) not far from you as you pass a collision plane.
SoraanTribal
Member
I disagree with this, and I didn't increase my brightness. I did all of the Gutter without a torch, and it wasn't really that hard. Your character basically glows lighting up the area you're currently in enough to navigate, and I think I got most/all of the treasures, too. That said, I wish I HAD use a torch in that area since I beat the game with over 2 hours of Torch left. If the game had no timer/limitation on the torch, I probably would have used it a *lot* more (because I really did love the lighting when you had a torch), but I never knew how much longer I had with the game or if I should save the torch for other areas.
I just got a PS3 this year and I can't stand the loading times.
Turn on the system. Loading
Need to update. Loading
Launch the game. Loading
Load a save. Loading
Die. Loading
I know the hole in Forest of the Giants you are talking about and I don't remember seeing any enemies vanish there. Granted i was only there two times. I haven't started Shrine of Amana yet. I'll keep an eye out there and see if I notice the disappearances you are talking about
Wow. That's impressive. I guess maybe my TV is shit or something because I couldnt see anything in The Gutter without the torch. I agree that the limit on the torch sucks but as much as I loved the lighting from the torch I always missed being unable to 2h/DW while holding it. I'm glad they don't force you to use it for most of the game but it has been really fun going back through areas with the torch and seeing how enemies react while discovering passageways/items.
yea all the loading really sticks out after using the PS4. I really wish Dark SOuls 2 came out for the PS4 so I didn't have to dust off my PS3 to play.
The PC versions are irrelevant. There is a stark difference between the Dark Souls 2 that Scamco had earlier been using to promote the game and the retail build, so understandably some, from both sides of the fence, are annoyed that the game's level design and aesthetic were notably compromised in what appears to be a dramatic attempt -- and a somewhat failed one at that -- to bring performance up to par on the PS360. In other words, yes, people are miffed that the game doesn't look as nice as it once did, but not solely because it's less pleasing to the eye.
I was not talking about the PC Dark Souls 2 release. I was talking about the PC release for Dark Souls. Prior to the PC release the game was not purchased for "amazing graphics" it was purchased on compelling gameplay, design and lore. I was simply pointing out that graphics were never the driving force behind the games and if that's what you are looking for then you will likely be sorely disappointed.
I know. I'm saying that Dark Souls as a series being on the PC has nothing to do with why people are upset at the downgrades that have occurred. I mean, sure, a few here and there may object that "There's no reason why the original version of the game doesn't exist on the PC!", but by and large it's not simply a case of people being frustrated because the game doesn't look as pretty as it did in the earlier days -- in some cases, such as the room with the giant dragon skeleton or whatever it is, the completely flat lighting coupled with the geometry cutbacks and revamped level design coalesce to form a fairly significant difference.
Edit: Ah, I wrote "The PC version is" rather than "The PC versions are". Oops!
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
I wouldn't be complaining about the graphics at all if FROM/Bamco hadn't lead us to believe that the trailers represented the final product. I play PS1 and NES games all the time and I'm not bothered by the graphics. Hell, I just played through King's Field right before DS2 came out.
The PC version is to blame for owners of the sequel's console version being disappointed with the graphics.
I don't know how you even begin to rationalize that. If anything, it makes more sense that those who have current gen consoles are having a hard time going back to 360/PS3.
I don't know how you even begin to rationalize that. If anything, it makes more sense that those who have current gen consoles are having a hard time going back to 360/PS3.
I'm not. I'm saying graphics were not a concern/focus for the games prior to their PC release. Graphical flourishes are not why people bought or did not buy the original games. The. They came out on PC and all the sudden graphics became a focus/concern for many.
Clearly I'm not able to communicate my point well enough so I'll just end the derail and stop trying
Sparrowhawk
Member
I'm perfectly fine with how the game looks on my PS3. Compared to the first game, it runs like a dream. No horrible framerate drops for me and I've been pretty much everywhere.
With that being said, if it looks how it did in the trailers, etc, for the PC, I will most definitely double dip. However, I have my doubts. I'm sure it'll run better and have more options, but I don't think it'll be "next gen" like many hope. Even so, I'll still probably end up buying it again.
With that being said, if it looks how it did in the trailers, etc, for the PC, I will most definitely double dip. However, I have my doubts. I'm sure it'll run better and have more options, but I don't think it'll be "next gen" like many hope. Even so, I'll still probably end up buying it again.
Dark Souls 2 runs SO much worse than Dark Souls 1 on the PS3 you must have blocked out everything but a few parts of blighttown from your memory. In fact even in blighttown the camera control for example felt more solid than it does anywhere in Dark Souls 2 on the PS3. The 360 version fixes the framerate, but adds both constant tearing and what feels like more input lag or maybe just worse camera movement acceleration curves.
Sparrowhawk
Member
I dunno, maybe I need to go back and play it. I just feel like it's smoother. Then again, I only really notice spikes in framerate if it causes me to get hit or die.
Stone Ocean
Member
Umm, no? At least I am disappointed because regardless of the downgrade, framerate and whatever, some areas of the game look atrocious compared to the first game. Dark Souls 1 had mostly uniform visuals - aside from that shit filter in Blighttown. Dark Souls 2 is all over the place, some places it's quite obvious they just said "fuck it" and didn't even bother polishing, some places look awesome.
I mean, come on