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Jiggy · May 12, 2008

Maybe I need to clarify what I'm talking about when I say I question the staggered releases. I'm not talking about the strategy as most companies would interpret it, which is that you don't release two things on the same day (though I should note that even Nintendo did a ton of that in 2005 and 2006 with GBA and DS). From everything we've seen with VC, Nintendo's specific interpretation of staggering releases is more like stretching out releases over a period of months, which to me seems well above and beyond what they need to do to be "safe" from games cannibalizing each other's.

As for what I was saying earlier about no excuse for Star Soldier R and Family Ping Pong not being available on day one (which is probably what led to the confusion), I stand by it. This isn't just any old week. This is the launch of WiiWare. It should be big. It should have lots of games available, as many as feasible.

Every time an entire system launches, many lesser games fly by with the kind of sales they'd never have if they were released at any other point in that system's life. I think the same should be true with WiiWare. The argument about games competing with each other too much sales doesn't hold water in the context of a launch, when many people are at the highest point of enthusiasm or excitement that they would ever hit, and are more likely to buy.

One last thing that struck me...

Jammy said:
With the VC/WiiWare, if everything was put up on day one, people would head straight for the Super Mario Bros 3s, the Earthbounds, the Kirby Super Star, etc. and the smaller games would get no recognition at all.

Judging by how the most popular chart looks every week, that's what's happening regardless. VC has a very sizable library of widely-recognized classics already, but that doesn't signal to me that they should stop releasing games just because people will scan straight for anything with "Mario" in the title, nor that they should have avoided releasing any Mario games (or other first-party games) until well after putting up the lesser-known titles.

WiiRevolution1 · May 12, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZr5xGYqSSY

New Pop video straight from the creator themselves.

looks so good...6 more hours...can not wait...

Yall better get it or I'll pop you

Capndrake · May 12, 2008

BuddhaRockstar said:
I have a question about this... if you were to delete the game to free up space, would you be able to redownload it again?

Basically, the game page still exists, except it's not on any of the "main" game lists in the Wii Shop. You have to access it through Games You've Downloaded.

Amir0x · May 12, 2008

Dragona Akehi said:
Unless it's Ys, over my dead body.

that's not so hard!

*fingercurl*

Dash Kappei · May 13, 2008

Damn, I hate seeing a classic controller enabled Metal Slug up on the service when I'm stuck playing with the Wavebird for my MS Anthology... fuck.

DDayton · May 14, 2008

Dash Kappei said:
Damn, I hate seeing a classic controller enabled Metal Slug up on the service when I'm stuck playing with the Wavebird for my MS Anthology... fuck.

Wait... is Metal Slug up on some version of the Virtual Console?

Did I miss that?

Stormbringer · May 14, 2008

DavidDayton said:
Wait... is Metal Slug up on some version of the Virtual Console?

Did I miss that?

Got updated on the European shop last week for the second Hanabi Festival, along with Cho Aniki, Puyo Puyo 2, and another game I don't remember.
Fun game by the way.

NeonZ · May 15, 2008

I've finally beaten Rugal again (with the Art of Fighting team!) :lol

It had been such a long time since I had played KoF94, and I had to play with the GC controller. He wasn't really hard, besides the Genocide Cutter, but that one thing was very annoying, and I didn't remember how to avoid it in '94.

jaundicejuice · May 15, 2008

I hope by next week Nintendo of America is through with the VC cock blockage.

Ranger X · May 15, 2008

jaundicejuice said:
I hope by next week Nintendo of America is through with the VC cock blockage.

If we follow the logic of the last weeks they are actually going to REMOVE games this week

Iam Canadian · May 15, 2008

jaundicejuice said:
I hope by next week Nintendo of America is through with the VC cock blockage.

Well, Nintendo said we'd get games next week. Of course, we have no idea how many there will be or if they'll be any good.

Come on Nintendo, bring the VC back in style with Earthbound!

Jiggy · May 15, 2008

I timed how long it took me to transfer LostWinds to my SD Card, and I can now honestly say that anyone who claims seven minutes is exaggerating. It took me six minutes and 59 seconds.

But as I posted before, I had considered earlier that maybe my stock-standard PNY SD Card sucks, so I bought a SanDisk Ultra II for the sake of comparison, ran a test, and... It turns out that transferring LostWinds took 94 seconds. I also found out that the transfer speed scales more or less in a perfectly linear way: I also copied over a 26-block VC game, which took 9 seconds. Very, very nice. I doubt I'd ever go back to the PNY Card if I didn't like the idea of having two separate physical backups of my games. (Which is why I really bought the second card: not purely to justify my trolling, as I was joking about.

)

With that said, none of this changes my opinion on Wii's need for a storage solution--for VC, WiiWare, or anything else Nintendo does with the system. 9 seconds of transfer is 9 seconds too many, particularly considering that I'll be transferring progressively more in the future since save files continue to eat away at my space. I counted the number of blocks taken up in my channels section: 435. (126 of those are the Nintendo Channel, in fairness, but that's not going anywhere since it's the best channel Nintendo has added to Wii since its inception.) In another year or so I could imagine having over 700 blocks used up in a basically permanent way since save files are, you know, exactly the kind of thing I'd never delete. Unacceptable.

Vilix · May 15, 2008

Dash Kappei said:
Damn, I hate seeing a classic controller enabled Metal Slug up on the service when I'm stuck playing with the Wavebird for my MS Anthology... fuck.

Well, that does suck. However, I'm hoping Nintendo release more Neo-Geo games. Come on Nam'75!

EDIT: Another problem I see with the Wii memory is not being able to transfer certain games saves to the SD card. Games saves from SSBB (128), MK (23), and Metal Slug Anthology (29). Now, I understand why that is. However, eventually if this keeps up then people will have to delete their game progress all together to make more room. And that's just bullshit IMO.

Scrubking · May 15, 2008

Jiggy37 said:
But as I posted before, I had considered earlier that maybe my stock-standard PNY SD Card sucks, so I bought a SanDisk Ultra II for the sake of comparison, ran a test, and... It turns out that transferring LostWinds took 94 seconds. I also found out that the transfer speed scales more or less in a perfectly linear way: I also copied over a 26-block VC game, which took 9 seconds. Very, very nice. I doubt I'd ever go back to the PNY Card if I didn't like the idea of having two separate physical backups of my games. (Which is why I really bought the second card: not purely to justify my trolling, as I was joking about. )

9 seconds of transfer is 9 seconds too many.

.

Jiggy · May 15, 2008

If the idea of wanting convenience is cringe-worthy, I'll be happy to induce shudders all year long.

Ranger X · May 15, 2008

I can't believe people defending the Wii system memory space.

FFS: Save games + channels + VC games + WiiWare games within 280mb
It simply is exagerrated and WAYYYYYYYYYYY too archaic for today's standards. Not only that but it wouldn't have added much cost to the Wii to have at least double the space.

It might not be a major annoyance for some people but the storage space problem cannot be ignored or laught at. It's 200% pertinent.

Meloche · May 15, 2008

Scrubking said:
facepalm.jpg

It only takes a few seconds to get up off the couch, walk to the tv, and change the channel. Would you be content to always watch tv without a remote? Should television manufacturers not bother to include remotes with their tvs because it's a needless convenience and it only takes minimal time and effort to get up and do it directly from the tv?

Seriously, we know we're arguing about conveniences here. Wii is functional whether it has a storage solution or not, no one is arguing otherwise. But the solutions are so obvious, and so easy, it's absolutely frustrating that Nintendo continues to have no response to this growing annoyance for an increasing (with Wiiware out, it's definitely going be increasing steadily) segment of their userbase. Being able to store all your digitally downloaded games and access them directly is not a new concept. We are not asking for revolutionary new concepts. We are not asking for Nintendo to just hand out hard-drives for free. We are asking for Nintendo to change their fundamentally backwards policy on storage so that it's easier to enjoy the games that we buy. There is nothing, absolutely nothing unreasonable with those demands, and to pretend at all otherwise is idiotic.

BooJoh · May 15, 2008

WiiRevolution1 said:
The PR Guy found out about JSnake posting the PR's and now JSnake cant post them on Fridays anymore.

Dang it :\

JSnake isn't the only one. The GameFAQs leaker got busted too.

Looks like NOA has a problem with people having 3 days to decide what to buy. Just seems odd that they sent out early PR at all if they wanted it kept under wraps until they post it on their site anyway.

I guess we'll be waiting 'til Monday mornings to find out about VC/WiiWare from now on.

Iam Canadian · May 15, 2008

I was under the impression that JSnake's PR guy didn't mind him posting the games early. Maybe a higher-up got wind of it or something, I don't know.

Maybe Nintendo doesn't want us to know that Earthbound is coming on Monday! Yes, that surely must be it!

I agree with Jiggy in that transferring games to the SD card and back is intolerable, but I seriously wouldn't mind it if we could just run the games from the freaking card, which seems to me like it would be cheaper and easier for Nintendo than releasing a hard drive.

MoxManiac · May 15, 2008

Iam Canadian said:
I was under the impression that JSnake's PR guy didn't mind him posting the games early. Maybe a higher-up got wind of it or something, I don't know.

Maybe Nintendo doesn't want us to know that Earthbound is coming on Monday! Yes, that surely must be it!

I agree with Jiggy in that transferring games to the SD card and back is intolerable, but I seriously wouldn't mind it if we could just run the games from the freaking card, which seems to me like it would be cheaper and easier for Nintendo than releasing a hard drive.

I don't understand what Nintendo's problem is. The VC DRM basically locks said games to your specific Wii system, so it's not like you'd be able to take your games on a SD card to a friend's Wii and play them off there (unless said friend bought the same game)

A Black Falcon · May 15, 2008

BooJoh said:
JSnake isn't the only one. The GameFAQs leaker got busted too.

Looks like NOA has a problem with people having 3 days to decide what to buy. Just seems odd that they sent out early PR at all if they wanted it kept under wraps until they post it on their site anyway.

I guess we'll be waiting 'til Monday mornings to find out about VC/WiiWare from now on.

Well yeah, we all know that the best way to sell the most VC games possible is to never advertise them and not allow any prior notice of which titles are about to be sold before they get released, right?

Oh wait...

BooJoh · May 15, 2008

MoxManiac said:
I don't understand what Nintendo's problem is. The VC DRM basically locks said games to your specific Wii system, so it's not like you'd be able to take your games on a SD card to a friend's Wii and play them off there (unless said friend bought the same game)

If I understand it correctly, the problem is that as games are copied to the SD card, they are heavily encrypted compared to when they are in the Wii system memory. The decryption process would make it take a prohibitively long time to load a game from an SD card, and allowing us to run games from the SD card would probably require that they cut back on the encryption, which would make it far more likely that people could transfer the files to SD, then to a computer, and change the system ID at will in order to steal the games.

Long story short; the experience of the paying consumer is often the last factor in determining how far to take DRM. Because of this, the paying consumer suffers while the pirates eventually crack the DRM anyway. If you play PC games this entire situation should already be all too familiar.

Capndrake · May 16, 2008

EU VC update is as expected:

-Gley Lancer (900 Points)
-Star Parodier (900 Points)
-Digital Champ: Battle Boxing (700 Points)

minor effort · May 16, 2008

Capndrake said:
EU VC update is as expected:

-Gley Lancer (900 Points)
-Star Parodier (900 Points)
-Digital Champ: Battle Boxing (700 Points)

WHAT THE HELL. Hey Nintendo, North America has a few Wiis also.

I want Star Parodier too.

Mr. Wonderful · May 16, 2008

Capndrake said:
EU VC update is as expected:

-Gley Lancer (900 Points)
-Star Parodier (900 Points)
-Digital Champ: Battle Boxing (700 Points)

THREE games?!?!

A Black Falcon · May 16, 2008

Capndrake said:
EU VC update is as expected:

-Gley Lancer (900 Points)
-Star Parodier (900 Points)
-Digital Champ: Battle Boxing (700 Points)

Gleylancer and Star Parodier, both in the same week? Several weeks in a row of awesome, awesome import games? Why can't we be getting this stuff...

Gleylancer is really, really good. The only negative is that it wouldn't make as much sense same without translated cutscenes, and there's no way that that will be translated (versus the translated rom)... oh well, it'd be worth it anyway. It's not like story actually matters much in a shmup.

Bearillusion · May 16, 2008

Dragona Akehi said:

At first I thought you were wearing a glove and about to pick it up.

Jiggy · May 16, 2008

For the sake of dealing with the one-person 512 MB Defense Force, I went ahead and entered information into my spreadsheet about how many blocks my games occupy. 2821 on the VC side of things (averaging out to 52.24 blocks per game), and 379 on the WiiWare side, for a total of 3200 exact.

Keeping in mind that it takes me nine seconds for a 26-block file, it would take ~1107.69 seconds for me to copy over all these games. That's 18.46 minutes. 18.46 minutes to copy 56 games, and that's not including the span of time it takes to click on each separate game and press Copy and verify that you do indeed want to copy to your SD Card. (And if you ever want to play a game after deleting it, still more time is taken up: first to delete it, and then later to copy it back over.)

Here's what would happen if Nintendo had released a hard drive from the beginning:

1) I would never have spent more than twenty minutes copying over games.
2) Nobody else would have spent nine seconds copying over every 26-block game, or more if they didn't have a high-speed card.
3) Protesters who are refusing to buy VC games because of the lack of a storage solution would--shock--not be refusing to buy them! Mind you, I'm definitely not one of those people.
4) People could store more than 41 games on the Wii menu. I've downloaded enough non-TGCD, non-N64, non-Neo-Geo games that, if I wanted, I could fairly easily fill every slot on my Wii menu and then not be able to add another game purely because this system only fits 48 channels total. And all I have on here other that games are the six mandatory channels and the Nintendo channel.
5) Nintendo would make money from sales of the hard drive.

Apparently at least one person takes a fundamentally strange interest in shooting down a win-win hypothetical where everybody benefits. I'm not sure if that's defeatist, nihilism, or just plain misery, but whatever the case, I want no part of it.

Anyway, a big "Wow" for Europe getting Star Parodier and Gleylancer simultaneously. That would be a superior week if it happened in NA, so I can say honestly that they've really been kicking over there lately. DoReMi Fantasy ascended to become my third favorite pure platformer, so Europe's lack of that still sucks, but I'd trade it away for the trifecta of Final Soldier, Gleylancer, and Star Parodier no doubt.

FFantasyFX · May 16, 2008

Mr. Wonderful said:
THREE games?!?!

Why the surprise? Europe has received three or more games the last four weeks now. Definitely the royal treatment, but they deserve it considering how their year began. In chronological order, divided by month:

January Releases: 1, 2, 2, 1
February Releases: 1, 1, 2, 2, 2
March Releases: 1, 2, 1, 3
April Releases: 1, 4, 1, 3
May Releases: 3, 4, 3

They've suffered through twice as many one game weeks as North America. The turning point came with the start of Commodore 64 releases, and the 2nd Hanabi Festival has just sweetened the pot. Europe will probably get their zero release week on May 30th (WiiWare launch), and it'll be interesting to see whether the current uptick in releases continue after that point. I sorta doubt it, but hope springs eternal.

I'm curious to see what the North American schedule will look like going into the future as well. I sorta doubt that we'll get a huge chunk of import titles at the same time like Europe. I'm guessing they may pair an import VC title with a regular one each week, with a WiiWare title or two on top of that. Not sure if that makes me cautiously optimistic or pessimistic. :lol

Iam Canadian · May 16, 2008

Why is Europe getting weeks so much better than ours? D:

I'm really hoping we get one of that delightful import shooter trifecta this week. And/or my beloved Earthbound.

Somnid · May 16, 2008

Iam Canadian said:
Why is Europe getting weeks so much better than ours? D:

I'm really hoping we get one of that delightful import shooter trifecta this week. And/or my beloved Earthbound.

A) Because the US has more games than Europe.
B) Because the US has Wiiware and they don't.
C) Because the US will get the same stuff within the next month.

Just sit tight and have a little patience.

FFantasyFX · May 16, 2008

Iam Canadian said:
Why is Europe getting weeks so much better than ours? D:

Once we suffer through four more one game weeks, we too shall be blessed with the cornucopia of three/four game weeks once again.

And apparently I missed the latest WiiWare news. I didn't realize it would launch in Europe on May 20th, so please ignore the inaccurate statements in my last post.

jaundicejuice · May 16, 2008

Iam Canadian said:
Come on Nintendo, bring the VC back in style with Earthbound!

That would be too good, so there's no way it will happen. I mean, this is Nintendo we're talking about.

Mike Works · May 16, 2008

zombies ate my neighbors yet?

no?

Iam Canadian · May 16, 2008

jaundicejuice said:
That would be too good, so there's no way it will happen. I mean, this is Nintendo we're talking about.

I know, I know...

Still, let me dream. D:

EphemeralDream · May 16, 2008

Not sure if Wiki is accurate, but EU is within 5 games of catching up to NA. It seems unlikely any regions will ever catch up to Japan, but it's good to see the regions equalizing more in terms of sheer number of games released (although it's at the expense of the recently shitty NA VC).

EmCeeGramr · May 16, 2008

Your Mother you love so much is dead. Move on. BUY MORE POKEMON.

crowphoenix · May 16, 2008

Iam Canadian said:
I know, I know...

Still, let me dream. D:

If we let you dream, you eventually have to wake up.

Jiggy · May 16, 2008

Don't worry, guys, surely we'll get an epic Monday. Not only will they make up for the lack of VC games from this week by releasing Shining Force II, Earthbound, Final Soldier, and Ys Book I & II simultaneously, but they'll also step up the WiiWare momentum with Gyrostarr, Toki Tori, and World of Goo. Surely! And I'll be so happy as a result that I won't complain about VC for an entire week.

And then the Nintendo people reading this board will be so delighted that I'm not contributing to give them a negative reputation that the following week will have Star Parodier and Gleylancer for VC, plus Family Ping Pong, Dr. Mario, and Protothea on WiiWare. Clearly.

Man God · May 16, 2008

Jiggy37 said:
Don't worry, guys, surely we'll get an epic Monday. Not only will they make up for the lack of VC games from this week by releasing Shining Force II, Earthbound, Final Soldier, and Ys Book I & II simultaneously, but they'll also step up the WiiWare momentum with Gyrostarr, Toki Tori, and World of Goo. Surely! And I'll be so happy as a result that I won't complain about VC for an entire week.

And then the Nintendo people reading this board will be so delighted that I'm not contributing to give them a negative reputation that the following week will have Star Parodier and Gleylancer for VC, plus Family Ping Pong, Dr. Mario, and Protothea on WiiWare. Clearly.

You'll still complain. Probably about space.

Anyways, Pokemon Farm for Monday is all I want or need. I'm almost out of room again...

Jiggy · May 16, 2008

Some Old Horses Can Always Hear Their Owners Approach; the ability to complain about space is my constant coefficient.

Capndrake · May 16, 2008

OFLC update: Splatterhouse 2!

And a USK update: Summer Games 2 (The first isn't even out yet though).

grandjedi6 · May 16, 2008

Wait, is the thread title accurate?

Capndrake · May 16, 2008

grandjedi6 said:
Wait, is the thread title accurate?

You got no VC games this week, yes. Just 6 WiiWare games.

Japan gets these next Tuesday:

SFC: Front Mission Gun Hazard
MD: Gynoug
PCE: Break In
Neo Geo: Fatal Fury 2

Cosmonaut X · May 16, 2008

grandjedi6 said:
Wait, is the thread title accurate?

Only if you're in the US. Both Japan and Europe are still getting decent releases each week (and Europeans are currently enjoying the second Hanabi Festival, so that means plenty of import titles).

A more accurate title would be:

The Horrible Un-Awesome VC Discussion of ZERO Games This Week (in America)

webrunner · May 16, 2008

There's only really two differences between Wiiware and VC:
1. They're not emulated games
2. They're not released under the "Virtual Console"

Do you remember when the idea of Wiiware was first floated out? I believe people called it"original games for virtual console".

If Nintendo kept calling it Virtual Console, nobody would be complaining now, since we'd have SIX games this week. What an amazing jump!

But, then, they wouldn't be separate, and all the developers would complain (remember, new game developers hate directly competing with ports of classic games on XBLA. That's why they like Wiiware so much, it's an entirely different menu so they're not sitting next to super metroid)

So in the interest of fostering developer help, Wiiware got called wiiware, but as a result people are complaining that there aren't any VC games this week. Although it's a technically correct assessment, it makes no sense in terms of any actual reason to be upset about it.

1. Any VC game they released this week would have lower sales from people buying Wiiware titles
2. Any Wiiware title would have lower sales due to the VC games released that week
3. You're still getting more new downloadable games off the Wii Shop then you ever have except launch. That they're all new should be a GOOD thing.

If someone says "Check out this brand new Ferrari" you don't say "Yeah but it's not a 15 year old scooter"

Stumpokapow · May 16, 2008

webrunner said:
Do you remember when the idea of Wiiware was first floated out? I believe people called it"original games for virtual console".

To be fair, that may have been true amongst random posters, but it was never true amongst anyone with technical knowledge. I specifically remember an argument here where someone made called it that, and they were rebutted--why on Earth would developers make new games on SNES dev kits and run them on SNES emulators when they could use a modern development pipeline?

Plus, Nintendo used the "WiiWare" brand from day one for downloadable Nintendo channels. It's actually peculiar that since launching the WiiWare service they've actually rebranded channels into their own category.

I think, though, the main complaint is not necessarily that Nintendo did not release VC games because they released WiiWare games--it's just a manifestation of the fact that 2008 has sucked for the Virtual Console. 1-2 games per week, massive backlog of unlocalized but ESRB'd titles, no effort whatsoever; all of this accompanied with the Japanese VC service being miles and miles better since the beginning.

JavyOO7 · May 16, 2008

I'm very sorry that this question has been asked constantly, but can any of you recommend me three Genesis games to buy? Thats the system I will be concentrating on for the VC at the moment (I just beat Punch Out on the NES for the first time, sweet!), and also I've never had a Genesis.

I like shooters, I'm fine with RPG's and fighters and love plat formers (don't need to recommend me Sonic I have the collection on GCN).

Ranger X · May 16, 2008

JavyOO7 said:
I'm very sorry that this question has been asked constantly, but can any of you recommend me three Genesis games to buy? Thats the system I will be concentrating on for the VC at the moment (I just beat Punch Out on the NES for the first time, sweet!), and also I've never had a Genesis.

I like shooters, I'm fine with RPG's and fighters and love plat formers (don't need to recommend me Sonic I have the collection on GCN).

I suggest you buy Gunstar Heroes (the better Contra-like by Treasure) and Shinobi 3. (best Ninja game that isn't a Ninja Gaiden)

If ever you want to try the undisputed king of beat'em ups: Street Of Rage 2
The third one is also mighty excellent.

dark steve · May 16, 2008

Buy Light Crusader and play a drinking game:

1. Every you think "Huh. This is by Treasure? Huh. Weird.", take a drink.

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