• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Logitech responds about PS4 wheel support - Sony demands advanced security

F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
le-seb said:
And that's bullshit, damnit!

Neither the T500-RS nor the T100, two wheels coming from previous gen, have this chip embedded.
And still, they're supported on the PS4 by at least two games.
Click to expand...
Madcatz, via MarkMan here on GAF, gave the exact same reason for why your 200 dollar TE sticks are useless on PS4. So I'm more inclined to believe these companies, since Sony is refusing to respond to this "misinformation".
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
mrklaw said:
Damn, t300 or t100? Always found the DFGT a bit notchy, so maybe the 300 would be better. Don't really use it enough to justify though..
Click to expand...

There's hardly any notchiness to the newer Thrustmasters, tiny bit if you turn slowly but can't really detect anything whilst playing.
 
L

le-seb

Member
firehawk12 said:
Madcatz, via MarkMan here on GAF, gave the exact same reason for why your 200 dollar TE sticks are useless on PS4. So I'm more inclined to believe these companies, since Sony is refusing to respond to this "misinformation".
Click to expand...
So, why do some Mad Catz flight sticks are reported to work in War Thunder?
Ask MarkMan for me, please, I can't wait for his explanations.
 
P

Philly40

Member
androvsky said:
I kept asking people to try it, and finally a junior member did.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=125821466#post125821466

Don't know if he ever got around to trying the Rock Band instruments.
edit: And yes, he tested the wheel for a lot longer than 8 minutes.
Click to expand...


Just saw this thread was bumped, I did try with the RB3 keyboard and it didn't recognise the piano keys, it did recognise the dpad and o,x,square and triangle however.



Madcatz, via MarkMan here on GAF, gave the exact same reason for why your 200 dollar TE sticks are useless on PS4. So I'm more inclined to believe these companies, since Sony is refusing to respond to this "misinformation".
Click to expand...


The PS3 madcatz TE stick I have works flawlessly in War Thunder, (obviously an 8-way stick is not ideal in flight simulators, but it works)


Edit: The stick I used is this madcatz ps3 one, in case anyone is confusing fight sticks and flight sticks
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Well, you guy should go to the fightstick thread and ask him then. Because that's the reason he's giving for why he wants to sell you a new 200 dollar TE for the PS4.
 
MarkMan

MarkMan

loves Arcade Sticks
I'm right here.

As I mentioned before. It's different for this new console. PS4 peripherals (even ones that are compatible with PS3 via switch) require added security protocols on the manufacturing side; all of which are connected to being a Sony licensed product. That's pretty much it.
 
A

androvsky

Member
I think what's going on is Sony's taken steps to prevent the fake Dualshocks that happened with the PS3. Remember there were a few firmware updates in the middle of the generation where some people complained it killed their DS3s, and it eventually turned out they were fakes? It's not security to prevent the PS4 from being hacked, it's security so people who buy licensed products actually get them, rather than bootlegs that work through the USB HID protocols but look like the real thing. Of course, to enforce this games can't just work normally with HID devices, but Sony apparently allows exceptions. The Skullgirls' fightstick library developer might have to add a setup step so it's clear to users they're using an unlicensed stick, I'm guessing.


Just saw this thread was bumped, I did try with the RB3 keyboard and it didn't recognise the piano keys, it did recognise the dpad and o,x,square and triangle however.
Click to expand...
I'm now imagining someone playing War Thunder like it was Macross 7, with the pilot playing guitar and the backseater banging on drums non-stop.
 
L

le-seb

Member
MarkMan said:
I'm right here.

As I mentioned before. It's different for this new console. PS4 peripherals (even ones that are compatible with PS3 via switch) require added security protocols on the manufacturing side; all of which are connected to being a Sony licensed product. That's pretty much it.
Click to expand...
The fact newer products are required to embed a new security chip doesn't excuse the fact that older peripherals are let down, although we've been proven with the various War Thunder examples that they can work perfectly.

That's basically what Sony's said: if developers want to, they can have older gaming peripherals supported in their games.

So, you could maybe have tried to convince publishers to add support for your legacy peripherals.
It's not like there are hundreds of publishers to convince, right now, or that games are impossible to patch after release.

But on a business point of view, of course, it seems logical you prefer to sell customers new devices...
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
MarkMan said:
I'm right here.

As I mentioned before. It's different for this new console. PS4 peripherals (even ones that are compatible with PS3 via switch) require added security protocols on the manufacturing side; all of which are connected to being a Sony licensed product. That's pretty much it.
Click to expand...

To use as an input in game, or to support aid level things like thr PS button, share button etc? The T100 by thrustmaster has no security chip, you can't use it in the OS, but it works in game as a steering input (presumably by simply behaving like a PS3 wheel). And it has immersion tech in it.


I know it sounds like nitpicking, but it might be an important clarification
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
drugstore_cowboy said:
There's hardly any notchiness to the newer Thrustmasters, tiny bit if you turn slowly but can't really detect anything whilst playing.
Click to expand...

I'd heard this about the T300 but was wary about the T100 because doesn't that use he nor normal motor/gear setup? No brushless motors etc.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Thanks for the clarification MarkMan.

I'm still not sure who to "blame" in all of this, but given Sony's silence on the matter - when they are usually loud and #forthegamers and all that crap during the press conferences - I'm more than willing to give MadCatz and Logitech the benefit of the doubt here.

That said, there's no way I'm spending another few hundred dollars on peripherals again (especially if I need to throw them out in 5-10 years when new consoles come out), so I don't really have skin in this game anymore. Good luck to those of you spending 500 bucks on the new Thrustmaster gear.
 
P

Putty

Member
Well, when I got shot of my PS3 I naturally hung onto my Force GT in the hope it would eventually become PS4 compatible. 8( The Thrustmaster t300 RS is 240 on Amazon (UK) but I can't justify paying that for a wheel.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Putty said:
Well, when I got shot of my PS3 I naturally hung onto my Force GT in the hope it would eventually become PS4 compatible. 8( The Thrustmaster t300 RS is 240 on Amazon (UK) but I can't justify paying that for a wheel.
Click to expand...

T100 is £80-ish and should be similar to the DFGT
 
N

Nerix

Member
At least Sony should break their silence and give racing fans an explanation, why they are not supporting old wheels. All this speculation and lack of customer support is really annoying... At least official GT5/6 wheels should be supported, as there are tons of people who bought those in confidence, that this wouldn´t be an investment in expensive plastic junk a short time down the road.

Could help when enough people tweet this:
Code: 
#PS4WheelSupport Dear @Playstation @Logitech pls make backward compatibility possible https://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4 @ToddW_Logitech @yosp @Rushy33
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131443817&postcount=454
 
P

Philly40

Member
androvsky said:
I'm now imagining someone playing War Thunder like it was Macross 7, with the pilot playing guitar and the backseater banging on drums non-stop.
Click to expand...

LOL - just found my old Rock Band Beatles guitar and tried it out, it recognized all the neck buttons, the whammy bar, the strumming bar and even the 'tilt' mechanism - the only thing that didn't work is the dpad.

(I realise I'm getting off topic in a steering wheel thread, is there a thread for generic USB controllers on PS4? - I searched but couldn't find)
 
A

androvsky

Member
Philly40 said:
LOL - just found my old Rock Band Beatles guitar and tried it out, it recognized all the neck buttons, the whammy bar, the strumming bar and even the 'tilt' mechanism - the only thing that didn't work is the dpad.

(I realise I'm getting off topic in a steering wheel thread, is there a thread for generic USB controllers on PS4? - I searched but couldn't find)
Click to expand...

War Thunder is, so far, the only game that supports generic USB controllers on PS4 that I'm aware of, so I doubt there's a thread. But it's useful here since it gives a different angle to the whole security chip argument, especially since you're apparently the only person on neogaf with both a PS4 and a Logitech steering wheel.

And I'm bummed I couldn't find a good Macross 7 gif.
 
N

Nerix

Member
serversurfer said:
"We hope to support more from Thrustmaster and other providers, as more wheels hit the shelves for PS4." (emphasis mine)

Again, doesn't sound like any exclusivity deal I've ever heard of.
Click to expand...
Right. But it also doesn´t sound like they want to support backwards compatibility. Quite a big shitstorm in the comment section (also in other blog languages, e.g. german).
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
Philly40 said:
LOL - just found my old Rock Band Beatles guitar and tried it out, it recognized all the neck buttons, the whammy bar, the strumming bar and even the 'tilt' mechanism - the only thing that didn't work is the dpad.

(I realise I'm getting off topic in a steering wheel thread, is there a thread for generic USB controllers on PS4? - I searched but couldn't find)
Click to expand...

So weak. This is basically just some hidden cash deal. It's the only thing at this point. Even Thomas with Fanatec when questioned is like "uh, well ... mmm ... it's ... uh ... complicated ... we'll have, uhm ... details ... CHECK OUT OUR NEW WHEEL!"

I've probably said it before but I'm pretty sure I'm done with console racers at this point. It's absolutely ridiculous that a USB controller can't be backward compatible. Unfortunately we're such a small part of the userbase it doesn't matter to Sony or MS. It's not like wheel users are any large percentage of any console racing game.
 
M

_machine

Member
flyinpiranha said:
So weak. This is basically just some hidden cash deal. It's the only thing at this point. Even Thomas with Fanatec when questioned is like "uh, well ... mmm ... it's ... uh ... complicated ... we'll have, uhm ... details ... CHECK OUT OUR NEW WHEEL!"
Click to expand...
No, he straight up said that it wasn't possible to support the wheels because it was up to the manufacturers. That doesn't really imply that they didn't want to front cash, because they are already doing it with new wheels and it's completely true that there's is something in the new hardware that allows the PS4 to recognize the handshakes. That doesn't mean that it would be impossible to support backwards compatibility as the controllers can be detected (but keep in mind that supporting FFB is more than the generic USB controller as it has it's own, licensed protocol), but that it definitely has to do with the stances Microsoft and Sony have, regardless of whether the FFB licensing is the issue.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
This is so frustrating, Sony promotes Logitech wheels with GT and than pull this BS.

Make an effort to make it work, this doesn't help PS4 at all. If there is some sort of deal going on behind this Sony has sink to a new low and will not have my support.
 
S

spwolf

Member
_machine said:
No, he straight up said that it wasn't possible to support the wheels because it was up to the manufacturers. That doesn't really imply that they didn't want to front cash, because they are already doing it with new wheels and it's completely true that there's is something in the new hardware that allows the PS4 to recognize the handshakes. That doesn't mean that it would be impossible to support backwards compatibility as the controllers can be detected (but keep in mind that supporting FFB is more than the generic USB controller as it has it's own, licensed protocol), but that it definitely has to do with the stances Microsoft and Sony have, regardless of whether the FFB licensing is the issue.
Click to expand...

i cant understand what you are writing at all. Obviously their competition can provide support for older wheels, so they should as well.

If Thrustmaster can provide support for their old wheels without PS4 chip, then I dont see why cant Logitech or Fantec do the same. Except for them not wanting to pay money to Immersion to get their wheels supported.
 
M

_machine

Member
spwolf said:
i cant understand what you are writing at all. Obviously their competition can provide support for older wheels, so they should as well.

If Thrustmaster can provide support for their old wheels without PS4 chip, then I dont see why cant Logitech or Fantec do the same. Except for them not wanting to pay money to Immersion to get their wheels supported.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I should have written it more clearly, but the gist was that Thomas made it clear that the platform holders did not let them get the compability for older wheels (which implies that paying for the PS4/XB1 license iwas not the issue as they will support it future products). The T100 is a weird case, but it was released after the PS4 was launched so it's possible that Thrustmaster simply holds the license for TouchSense and had prepared for PS4 compability even they have not officially announced it.

The other point was that there is tech in newer hardware that is associated with the whole official handshake process (which off course I cannot talk about), but I do not know if it's linked to FFB in anyway, but it's a piece in the whole "official support for PS4" issue.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
_machine said:
Yeah, I should have written it more clearly, but the gist was that Thomas made it clear that the platform holders did not let them get the compability for older wheels (which implies that paying for the PS4/XB1 license iwas not the issue as they will support it future products). The T100 is a weird case, but it was released after the PS4 was launched so it's possible that Thrustmaster simply holds the license for TouchSense and had prepared for PS4 compability even they have not officially announced it.

The other point was that there is tech in newer hardware that is associated with the whole official handshake process (which off course I cannot talk about), but I do not know if it's linked to FFB in anyway, but it's a piece in the whole "official support for PS4" issue.
Click to expand...

Why can't you talk about it? Are you under NDA or something? I think it could have easily been done, I don't think there is some huge technical hurdle that stopped it from working. Sony and MS wanted more money which is understandable but most wheel users would have probably upgraded anyway after some time, it's a progression of wheel choice not of wheel mandates for me. This stance guarantees I won't be buying racing games on either system outside of arcade games like DriveClub (ProjectCars will be PC and I'm skipping GT7) and most likely will be skipping consoles next generation. This is just bad form all around. They should have made it work. The T500 works doesn't it and that was released well before the PS4, unless there's a new model with the super secret chip in it or something.

But, we're a small niche' so not much is expected out of this.
 
D

darkwing

Member
Freeman said:
This is so frustrating, Sony promotes Logitech wheels with GT and than pull this BS.

Make an effort to make it work, this doesn't help PS4 at all. If there is some sort of deal going on behind this Sony has sink to a new low and will not have my support.
Click to expand...

Logitech got out of the console peripheral business a few ago
 
L

le-seb

Member
_machine said:
Yeah, I should have written it more clearly, but the gist was that Thomas made it clear that the platform holders did not let them get the compability for older wheels (which implies that paying for the PS4/XB1 license iwas not the issue as they will support it future products).
Click to expand...
Would you have a link to his sayings, please?

Because my understanding is that Fanatec have for the most part depended on Logitech SDKs.
So, no supported Logitech SDK on PS4 means no supported Fanatec wheel on PS4.
Simple as that!

To make their legacy wheels working on the PS4, Fanatec would probably have to write their own SDK (à la Thrustmaster) and get some new licences from Immersion.
Call me cynical but it takes no genius to understand that they probably prefer to sell you new costly toys (i.e. earn money) than spend some good cash on writing a SDK and buying licenses again from Immersion for products they have already sold you (I.e. lose money).

_machine said:
The T100 is a weird case, but it was released after the PS4 was launched so it's possible that Thrustmaster simply holds the license for TouchSense and had prepared for PS4 compability even they have not officially announced it.
Click to expand...
Maybe their deal with Immersion covers the use on PS4 too, yeah.
But there's nothing special in this wheel making it PS4 compatible.

_machine said:
The other point was that there is tech in newer hardware that is associated with the whole official handshake process (which off course I cannot talk about), but I do not know if it's linked to FFB in anyway, but it's a piece in the whole "official support for PS4" issue.
Click to expand...
Not related to force feedback, but to standard recognition of devices by games.
Devices missing the security chip have to be explicitly supported by games, and also won't work outside of them (no PS button support for example).
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
It's clear though the chip has nothing to do with the lack of Logitech (Fanatec) support though... Sony (or Immersion) isn't allowing Devs to support them.

Thanks Patent Troll.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
It appears your prayers will be answered sometime around Christmas or New Years.

The people behind ChronusMax are indicating their new ChronusMax Adaptor version 2.0 will have *FULL* support for force feedback from ****A-N-Y**** steering wheel if it already works on PC.

http://controllermax.com/

This was posted back in June 28th.....

MaxAdmin said:
We will start working on it(full wheel support) after PS4 console to see if it was possible - a big difference. We have started working on it and it will be in the next version of CM (internally known as 2.0 and wont be ready for several months)

There is already an entire section dedicated to Racing Wheel support and current solutions - hence why i'm pretty upset when you said there were "crickets" with no news.

We have done everything we can to bring you solutions as best as possible with the current hardware. The current CM has been 3 years in development, this stuff doesn't happen over night.

The new so-called 2.0 is in development using a the latest state of the art ARM technology and is already 3 months in - I expect at least another 6 months of development, everything has been started from scratch. Until it's at the beta stage (estimated November) it won't be discussed again.
Click to expand...

OnlookerDelay said:
I just want a simple answer really. Is CM trying to get the X1 gamepad to authenticate as a wheel? If not, is CM trying to allow an X1 wheel to be authenticated? The second question would atleast allow us to buy TS's $99 wheel to authenticate with, but at the moment authenticating from an official wheel doesn't even work.

If the answer is no to these questions, I can piss off and never bother you guys again, because it appears that we have everything already that is possible through authenticating as a gamepad.
Click to expand...


MaxAdmin said:
For the current CM the answer is no.

For the next version of CM (2.0) the answer will be YES!!!!
Click to expand...

It appears they are on the cusp of a major breakthrough, that fools the PS4 and Xbone into thinking that you have an officially supported wheel connected to your console, when in fact it could be ANY racing wheel. This is pretty exciting news.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
isamu said:
It appears they are on the cusp of a major breakthrough, that fools the PS4 and Xbone into thinking that you have an officially supported wheel connected to your console, when in fact it could be ANY racing wheel. This is pretty exciting news.
Click to expand...
I suspect the device is an officially supported 'wheel' (in terms of the chip, I/O, licensing) that simply acts as an intermediary.

Basically a front end that talks to the PS4, while the back end receives input from the wheel and converts it to the proper communication and authentication. Basically a wheel transcoder if you will.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
isamu said:
It appears they are on the cusp of a major breakthrough, that fools the PS4 and Xbone into thinking that you have an officially supported wheel connected to your console, when in fact it could be ANY racing wheel. This is pretty exciting news.
Click to expand...
I hope that's true, but I can see it being a major breach of patent if it happens... I'd imagine the only way they can fool the PS4 is by using whatever code/GUID or whatever.

And I'm hoping the FFB isn't just emulated/translated from vibrations and is genuine FFB. If it's getting the Thrusty FFB and converting it to HID, then it'll be a god-tier move from Cronus.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Shaneus said:
And I'm hoping the FFB isn't just emulated/translated from vibrations and is genuine FFB. If it's getting the Thrusty FFB and converting it to HID, then it'll be a god-tier move from Cronus.
Click to expand...

That is what I have a feeling they are working on, and the reason why they can't implement that behavior in the existing ChorusMax device via a firmware upgrade. Seems like a new physical chip needs to be imbedded into the new device.
 
M

Mascot

Member
Cease & desist, patent infringement and input lag: the new phrases shortly to pepper this thread.

Exciting news though. I hope they pull it off.
 
W

Wax Free Vanilla

Member
Have these adapters ever worked properly? Like the others that have come before it it will still emulate the control pad, it will still feature a massive deadzone, and it will still have zero chance of giving you a smooth and consistent input across the 900° range.


Fuck Sony!
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Updated post from KittyDawn from the GM forums:



KittyDawn said:
You don't get FFB because the console doesn't send the signals. You have the remember that you are tricking the console into thinking that your wheel is a standard gamepad. Gamepads only feature rumble motors so as the game thinks a controller is connected, it neither bothers to generate FFB signals nor does it send them.

What we are attempting to do, is mask the CronusMax as a steering wheel. Then the console will believe a steering wheel is connected. The difficult part is creating a wheel output protocol which the console will accept when the authentication key comes from a controller.

There are many complicated steps we have to go through but the Techs are making progress.

If the console was sending the CM the FFB signals it shouldn't be difficult to translate them to something your wheels support.

Don't worry, we have boffin's locked away in a dark room and they don't get to eat unless they make progress!

If they do well, they get to see the sun for 10 minutes and we let then watch one episode of star trek. So they are motivated to finding a solution!
Click to expand...

I like the sound of that. Fuck you M$ and Sony, and God Bless the third party companies in the community who're making a difference and who actually GIVE A DAMN!
 
P

paskowitz

Member
isamu said:
Updated post from KittyDawn from the GM forums:





I like the sound of that. Fuck you M$ and Sony, and God Bless the third party companies in the community who're making a difference and who actually GIVE A DAMN!
Click to expand...

It's awesome there are people in a garage somewhere working on something like this. The sim racing community may be small but it sure as hell is passionate.
 
T

The Llama

Member
isamu said:
Updated post from KittyDawn from the GM forums:





I like the sound of that. Fuck you M$ and Sony, and God Bless the third party companies in the community who're making a difference and who actually GIVE A DAMN!
Click to expand...
If you're already going to type M$ why not type $ony as well?
 
Relativ9

Relativ9

Member
The Llama said:
If you're already going to type M$ why not type $ony as well?
Click to expand...

Well I'm just spit balling here, and am not actually a fan of pejorative slang. But I'm guessing it has something to do with Microsoft actually being a very profitable company and Sony not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sony needs to release some info if PS4 racing wheels will be compatible with PS5
29
3K
henrik356 replied
Steering wheel users GET IN HERE! You can now use *ANY* wheel U want on PS4 or PC!!!!
41
37K
isamu replied
I am upset about the Logitech wheels not working on PS4.
35
15K
Theognosis replied
Old Logitech wheels [with FFB] are now playable on PS4 via homebrew PC app
5 6 7 8 9
434
330K
Neo 007 replied
PlayStation 4 Pro |Launch Thread| PS4 Reloaded
184 185 186 187 188
9K
1M
BigWeather replied
Top Bottom