Well, can't say I don't do the same from time to time.
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Metal Gear Solid V Has The Most Needless Sexualization Since Bayonetta (Spoilers)
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ArchedThunder
Banned
Shhh, don't tell people that you can zoom the camera in yourself and always have been able to.
WrenchNinja
Member
uh huh
oh yeah, totally plot reasons. not because watching a woman bathing in a cage fulfills some voyeuristic fantasy. she just wants to be near her precious big boss and that's why she plays along. that's it. nothing else.
i know
Come to think of it, I wonder what the hell is going through the head of Stefanie
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byRhvNuamWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_orBgRHeswo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxILUEkXdy0
Unless multiple people all zoomed in at the exact same time and the sound effect for zooming in cutscenes is different.
I disagree with you. I don't think the intent is clearly designed to titillate. If you really think it's that straightforward then that's part of your problem.
None of those are valid excuses.
That's not what happens and you know it.
Framing the camera a specific way because she's a woman is sexism. It's a form of prejudice. Sexism doesn't have to be full blown hate but I thinkyou already know that.hope
I eagerly await your bad attempts to spin these and claim i'm reading far too into things.
speaking of, that's another thing that gets said in these threads.The trigger for the second gif is staring at her breasts for a certain amount of time, but ofc no no we're just fucking crazy and reading too into it ofc.
There is no trigger for the second gif, she just does that randomly after you level her bond to a certain level, like the rest of the things she does in there.
sensui-tomo
Member
From the series which brought you female solider in underwear, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B-LulbAZ8Y , taking erotic photos of people who have had mental issues and other bad stuff happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0t41ISbvY and a game with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9pEhda-EYg + box of love and you'd think this game would be serious? I cant remember the stupid thing from 2, but i remember it involved an underskirt photo, mgs 3 had eva with a bra and panties (or bikini, i cant remember but i know that was subsistance only i think so i wont count it.. 3 was the less sexualized of the series ... except for that guy who was/wasnt Raiden but that was more of a joke)
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
95% of her scenes are meant meant for titillation in the way they're shot and framed. The director said that he told the designer to make her sexy, which is a clarification when he originally said erotic. Naturally she's the only character in the game's who powers require nudity. It's incredibly straightforward.
Gosh, long thread. I just saw it. Apologies and do ignore if, as I hope, the following article has already been mentioned.
Aiofe Wilson over at Eurogamer delivers a great critique of Quiet's implementation.
Aiofe Wilson over at Eurogamer delivers a great critique of Quiet's implementation.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
It is sexist to focus on a woman's assets? I think we can agree that sometimes the soldiers are behaving in a sexist manner towards her, but that certainly isn't your point, is it? Characters behaving in a sexist manner doesn't necessarily make a piece of media sexist.
Is it the camera angles and the overall tone that makes it sexist? Even in female entertainment, the female body is celebrated and oogled. I don't believe that pointing out or highlighting body parts is inherently sexist either.
Quiet is the "sexy soldier". Her archetype has carried not only through the entire MGS series but is a pretty generic role that is common in entertainment. Just like Snake is the "grizzled veteran" hence the camera is always zoomed in on his scars when you're flying around in the helicopter. It's a non-verbal reinforcement of their character type, and if that's where the game left it, sure, there'd be an argument that Quiet's only role there is to be sexist eye-candy.
But that's not how the game treats the character. She has a fair amount of development and backstory and volition, definitely moreso than most of the Male characters. Her condition is a mystery
but ends up being a central part of the plot, not to mention her choice of being "Quiet" is directly related to that plot.
Is the game sexist because you believe the game is trying to reinforce the notion that women are only valuable when they're half-naked? That certainly isn't the case, as we are told repeatedly by Ocelot that
she's worth keeping around both for her skills and her connection to Cipher
I wouldn't go as far to say that Kojima is a brilliant director for spinning those tropes on their head. Rather, he uses those tropes but includes enough depth to balance it out. Again I'll ask -- what is inherently wrong about highlighting Quiet's outfit?
The same argument could be made for a game like Until Dawn which is significantly more stereotypical, racist, and sexist based on the first few hours but slowly turns those tropes on their head.
Haha, this is brilliant and far too accurate. should be made into a bingo meme
Sure, a lot of her scenes are but I don't think that torture scene is.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Oh you're right i'm mistaken, the staring at boob thing is something you need to do in the ACC.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
The shower scene is so awful I had to laugh throughout.
At first I thought it was just going to be Ocelot giving that look and then a silly bit of first person camera voyeurism as you both shower. OH NO you have a fucking audience
At first I thought it was just going to be Ocelot giving that look and then a silly bit of first person camera voyeurism as you both shower. OH NO you have a fucking audience
Except it doesn't. Bait and Switches is not turning tropes on their heads. Those people never change by design.
Anton Sugar
Member
This needs to be bookmarked and add to the OP for any thread regarding sexism in games.
Zomba13
Member
Oh you're right i'm mistaken, the staring at boob thing is something you need to do in the ACC.
It also happens randomly in the ACC. It happened a bunch to me while doing shit in the iDroid menu which you can't actually change where it's looking.
It's stupid and pointless and the better way to get the point across that she cares about BB and likes him is the more subtle looks and smiles and nods rather than the whole "Oh, is my big sexy butt in your way? teeheehee. Let me do a sexy stretch. Let me get up and show you my breast.".
Windom Earle
Member
None of those are valid excuses.
That's not what happens and you know it.
Framing the camera a specific way because she's a woman is sexism. It's a form of prejudice. Sexism doesn't have to be full blown hate but I thinkyou already know that.hope
I eagerly await your bad attempts to spin these and claim i'm reading far too into things.
speaking of, that's another thing that gets said in these threads.The trigger for the second gif is staring at her breasts for a certain amount of time, but ofc no no we're just fucking crazy and reading too into it ofc.
Weird, I remember you being a big White Knight of DSP... Guess his obnoxious amount of sexism is funny to you?
Like, body language is such a hard thing to capture in video games, I almost want to praise it.
If only it was just a fragment of her character instead of the whole thing.
You know that it isnt an excuse but decided to bring the point nonetheless? Ok. Also, its not.
Paz should be in her early twenties.
Zomba13
Member
Plus there is also a Kaz version where you do the same but are both in swim trunks.
Not excusing the bit where you can zoom in on Paz in some cutscenes and see under her clothing (which is stupid). Especially when you're lead to believe she is 16 at that point. Just pointing out that the creepy beach love box side op is done with both a female and male character.
Oh you're right i'm mistaken, the staring at boob thing is something you need to do in the ACC.
I mean I know it's in the ACC, but that image is inaccurate. I leave my game on in the ACC for awhile sending my people out for missions because I don't have the time to do a real mission, and she will randomly do that and all her other poses and whatnot.
What's really funny is staring at her for a few seconds actually raises your bond with her by a point, just like real life.
sensui-tomo
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grNiqSwGMYE plus that song in mgs pw that i posted above......
anime ja nai
Windom Earle
Member
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because we specifically need to show that. You know that the scene has multiple close ups right? It even starts with one directly before the torture starts not even 15 seconds into the video. This is framed very specifically, stop trying to refute it as if we don't specifically have visual evidence to suggest otherwise. I could gif other moments where the camera does this in the same scene.
The only reason she escapes from having her dead body raped is because the guy takes her pants off first...they literally portray it that way in the game. -_-
Nice ad hominem and thread derail attempt but a)first of all I don't find those jokes very funny. b)Very different intent between joking about a silly moment in a video game and seriously critiquing the sexism of a character.
EdwardTeach
Member
It is so childish that so many people make such a big fuss about having an attractive woman on a game. "OMG partially clothed woman!!! SCANDALOUS". Why is it that people worry about this kind of thing so much in games? Imagine if it was a film and people were like: "they shouldn't have cast X, she is too attractive and her clothes were too revealing therefore it is sexist and really problematic, I wont be wasting any more of my time with that director."
I have to say though, nice boobs but her face is pretty rough.
I have to say though, nice boobs but her face is pretty rough.
I like how people keep saying "you're just uncomfortable with the female body." It has nothing to do with how much skin is exposed by itself, it's the context she's exposing herself in and the perverted way the game presents it. She showers with you like a stripper giving a lapdance and gets on all fours and shoves her ass in the camera at multiple points in the game, and the camera even zooms in just in case it wasn't clear that you're supposed to be ogling her cheeks. There's no deeper meaning or subtext, the game is just showing you her tits and inviting you to look... just because. Tits.
She doesn't speak, she's grouped in a category with animals, and she acts more like a horny bonobo monkey than a human being. It's not a woman owning her sexuality, it's pervy developers exploiting a female character for extremely gratuitous and tasteless reasons.
I'm not honestly that bent up about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to stop playing the game, but it is a ridiculous disappointment in an otherwise great product.
She doesn't speak, she's grouped in a category with animals, and she acts more like a horny bonobo monkey than a human being. It's not a woman owning her sexuality, it's pervy developers exploiting a female character for extremely gratuitous and tasteless reasons.
I'm not honestly that bent up about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to stop playing the game, but it is a ridiculous disappointment in an otherwise great product.
Either serious troll. or the point has soared so far over your head that you are underground.
Basketball
Member
Exploratory
Banned
Sexism still alive and they don't give a fuck lol.
The only thing worse than a white knight is someone who acts like it's all ok and there's no argument to be made. Just admit that you're sexist and move on.
The only thing worse than a white knight is someone who acts like it's all ok and there's no argument to be made. Just admit that you're sexist and move on.
Would you watch Schindler's List the same way if Oscar kept doing comedic one-liners every 10 minutes?
That's the issue with Quiet, sexuality wise.
Wait, someone actually made a video analyzing DSPs sexism? That the funniest thing I've seen all day. Funny because I think DSP is an idiot who's not even worth the time to critique.
Anton Sugar
Member
sensui-tomo
Member
I should also note that I do understand that the scenes shown are dumb and pandering, but i'm fine with that. I just have an issue with people thinking MGS as this beacon series of seriousness... This series has been silly since MGS (mg and MG 2 may not be silly, I havent played them so i cant comment on those)
So? What's your point?
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I think you're just arguing semantics. If you played only the first 3 hours of Until Dawn and no further there are several things you could point to that could be called sexist and racist. As the game progresses, you realize there is more depth to these characters beyond the scholcky B-movie horror stereotypes.
But that's actually besides the point, and I apologize. We still haven't established what is inherently sexist about highlighting a sexy woman's assets. All I'm seeing so far is people stating their opinion that Quiet is a sexist design as a fact, committing the very same "but my friend is black" mistake under the guise of "but I'm a feminist so I'd know".
What specifically is sexist (as opposed to sexualized or entertaining, which are different) about Quiet's undress, her "sexy" behavior, or the oogling camera angles? One could very much argue that Big Boss himself is being sexist, which I think is a much more interesting conversation because it's actually rooted in evidence (his treatment of women in past games). However, the argument that the game or the designers are sexist because of Quiet has yet to be proven. Why is it sexist, as opposed to just entertainment or at worst, just Big Boss the character being sexist?
Portrayal of rape is sexist? Did the game celebrate her almost-rape? I'm not sure what your point is here. The game - being an adult game - portrays a huge quantity of adult situations, Quiet's treatment being one of them. Now, please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to argue "oh but this game has murder therefore it's no big deal that she was almost raped". But I don't understand why her escaping an assault makes the game itself sexist.
Not only is that what youre saying actually happening with movies as well, the only thing childish are the people who cant handle critizism of their favorite vidyagames.
I dont wanna derail this thread too much with that, so im leaving it at this post, but "Anime" is a medium, not a specific style.
And MGSV is exactly that. A beacon of seriousness. The story doesnt have any of the humor that the other games in the series had.
I mean, yeah, but at that rate, can we also talk about how the very first scene in the game has you in first person as a nurse with her top slightly unbutton leans over your face to change your IV?
Kojima ain't subtle, man. It's pretty gross. The game goes out of its way to put this stuff in your face.
That said, I do like the fact that a lot of your soldiers are, in fact, women, and they have no different attributes than men. You can even play as them!
Kojima ain't subtle, man. It's pretty gross. The game goes out of its way to put this stuff in your face.
That said, I do like the fact that a lot of your soldiers are, in fact, women, and they have no different attributes than men. You can even play as them!
while this is technically true, anime has also become synonymous with a style lately.
If this were a film it would be laughed out of the box office, and every goddamned critic known to man would be saying the shit we are.
It's not "OMG a partially clothed woman!" it's "OMG someone created a character who is partially clothed for a fucking moronic reason, treated as an object, caged up, sexualized beyond belief even while tortured, doesn't fucking talk, etc."
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