Apple doesn't care really. There's been a jailbreak tweak for color profiles released over 3 years ago, it's not that hard to do
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Apple iPad Pro |OT|
- Thread starter EroticSushi
- Start date
Apple doesn't care really. There's been a jailbreak tweak for color profiles released over 3 years ago, it's not that hard to do
Anton Sugar
Member
Sounds like he's reasonably frustrated to me.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Shog, thanks for the Pencil info. I wonder if Wacom would do this with their stylus. I mean why not?
This whole thing certainly is interesting to me, as a digital artist. Right now I use a Galaxy Note 10.1 for digital sketching, and really only because Samsung actually bothered to integrate stuff like pen pressure into the stylus. I'll be curious to try this pen out in the Apple store once it releases. Latency is something I'm primarily interested in.
The fact that they unveiled this thing by specifically showing it being used as an artist's tool gives me confidence.
The fact that they unveiled this thing by specifically showing it being used as an artist's tool gives me confidence.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Calibration drifts, and not everyone wants sRGB. At the very least I want to be able to adjust the gamma levels to specific settings.
The issue would be irrelevant if Apple allowed people to do what they like with the display settings.
The Lamonster
Member
Is there any retailer that will let me trade in my iPad Air 1 towards a Pro?
I mean, I know it's possible but are there any sweet deals for launch?
I mean, I know it's possible but are there any sweet deals for launch?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
As far as I understand it there are already apps that can do that but you'd have to calibrate it for every app, and even then I'm not entirely sure they'd hold the profile. Even if they did the app would have to be programmed for that purpose.
ss_lemonade
Member
Maybe best buy. Last year, I got a pretty decent, straight trade value for my Ipad 4 to Ipad Air 2 upgrade when the Air 2 came out.
Anyone know what's inside the new Mini 4? Will it have Air 2 specs?
iPhone 6 internals. A8 (not A8X). Not sure on ram. Fingers crossed it has 2GB
But its still relevant today.
I love Apple and hate Microsoft, but that comic is kind of true. I don't care if Apple copies from other companies, cause they always do it better.
It's like a cover+keyboard isn't official and accepted by the masses until Apple does it. Kind of how Sony once said "Next gen doesn't start until we say it does" that actually rings true with Apple.
Shogmaster
Member
Couple of issues for Wacom:
1. Still the majority of their line including ALL of their professional line uses Electro Magnetic Resonance, which requires a board under the LCD. This is the tech with patent they have been protecting and fostering for the last 30 years. When they move all of their pens to electro static set up, they are at equal footing or worse yet, behind their competitors who have been doing such set up longer.
2. They really like their margins on the pro pens, which sells for $70~100 but are only a small fraction to manufacture. Adding a Li-Po battery and charger, plus additional sensor for tilt which now they get for free, is not good for them.
Having said that though, IMO, the best course of Wacom is to shift entirely to their new Active ES (electro static) scheme and abandon their EMR scheme. This gets rid of two of their biggest complaints from customers: Edge drift/inaccuracy, and parallax issues. Then they are left with their overwhelming WinTab software support for their hardware, and legendary pressure curve and sensitivity of their tip sensor assembly.
Shogmaster
Member
Some more Apple Pencil thoughts:
I do have to give it to Apple that they over do things when it comes to things like digitizers. Their iPad pro cap touch layer polls at 120Hz while others are happy with 60~70Hz. Apple Pencil is polling data at ridiculous 240Hz, which out does even Wacom's pro digitizers (200Hz) and goes way beyond other consumer level pens (Wacom @ 133Hz, N-Trig @ 120Hz).
Now we can argue whether that is even worth the trouble since even 133Hz for consumer grade Wacom gives you over twice the data rate of what the most mobile LCD refreshes at. Why bother polling at that speed? I've never personally noticed any lag difference between my Tablet PC pen and the Cintiq pen (33% faster polling). So IMO, the 240Hz is way past the point of diminishing returns.
I think this approach might be taken by Apple because most iOS ink software does not dynamically interpolate between data points (Procreate being a significant exception). They simply "connect the dots" between the point, in which a higher polling rate would help out tremendously. But many Windows and OSX art apps does aggressive interpolation that applies Bezier curve to the data to make smoother curves for your pen input. Compare say Photoshop CS1 pen performance with CC or even CS4. Or simply click off "smoothing" checkbox for your brush setting in Photoshop. It's a huge difference. To me, having the software and hardware muscle to do that negates the need for such high polling rate. Obviously Apple engineers disagree.
But it's an interesting point of difference of how Apple vs others approach hardware design. Even if the higher specs does not make practical difference for end user, Apple likes to do it, put a bullet point on it, and then charge for it. smile emoticon
I do have to give it to Apple that they over do things when it comes to things like digitizers. Their iPad pro cap touch layer polls at 120Hz while others are happy with 60~70Hz. Apple Pencil is polling data at ridiculous 240Hz, which out does even Wacom's pro digitizers (200Hz) and goes way beyond other consumer level pens (Wacom @ 133Hz, N-Trig @ 120Hz).
Now we can argue whether that is even worth the trouble since even 133Hz for consumer grade Wacom gives you over twice the data rate of what the most mobile LCD refreshes at. Why bother polling at that speed? I've never personally noticed any lag difference between my Tablet PC pen and the Cintiq pen (33% faster polling). So IMO, the 240Hz is way past the point of diminishing returns.
I think this approach might be taken by Apple because most iOS ink software does not dynamically interpolate between data points (Procreate being a significant exception). They simply "connect the dots" between the point, in which a higher polling rate would help out tremendously. But many Windows and OSX art apps does aggressive interpolation that applies Bezier curve to the data to make smoother curves for your pen input. Compare say Photoshop CS1 pen performance with CC or even CS4. Or simply click off "smoothing" checkbox for your brush setting in Photoshop. It's a huge difference. To me, having the software and hardware muscle to do that negates the need for such high polling rate. Obviously Apple engineers disagree.
But it's an interesting point of difference of how Apple vs others approach hardware design. Even if the higher specs does not make practical difference for end user, Apple likes to do it, put a bullet point on it, and then charge for it. smile emoticon
Interesting points.
I would have to wonder if it actually does make a difference in this case? Not that it would produce 'better' results versus a lower polling rate + interpolation, but that it will be able to match or get close without the software having to handle it?
Such a solution serves the platform well . A beefy tablet PC is going to simply have more processor resources. This reduces the reliance on the SoC and moves it to dedicated hardware. Similarly an iPad is expected to have better battery life. Lowering processing utilization obviously helps maintain that.
Moreover this levels the playing field for app designers. Their apps can be smaller, less resource intensive, and entirely avoid having to roll their own solution for smoothing. While I'm sure the experienced production software companies won't love that since they've already invested the time and money, this opens the door to a lot of smaller devs to produce apps with good results.
To me this looks like an alternative solution not simply for the sake of being different, but one that makes the most sense on the platform and ecosystem it resides.
Oh wow. So it's basically like diving into your drawing bag for a new pencil or filling your calligraphy pen up with ink. Very nice
Damn. On the money (2012-2015).
Shogmaster
Member
Well, I think you are making an assumption that higher polling rate can ever compensate for software interpolation. It may, but it have to be even higher than 240Hz to do that. applying splines to bunch of a data points are gonna bring you infinitely better results than simply adding more data points. IMO, going after more data points is ham fisted approach and ultimately a fool's errand.
And let's not forget that even the Atom can do this no problem these days. My Surface 3 works great with Clip Studio Paint, a pinnacle at doing exactly this type of operation for all of its brushes. A8X was already faster than Cherrytrail Atom in my Surface 3. A9X should be even faster by decent margin. So hardware muscle wise, iPad Pro is ready for this.
Whether software marketplace that makes $5~10 software can bother to utilize that power properly is I guess another question. But likes of Procreate shows that they can.
I use my current iPad Air a lot with teleport or teamviewer to access my other computers. I can imagine an iPad pro being nicer for that, plus it could help me decide on an iPad pro rather than a surface as I have a desktop I use if but still access it on the go.
I wonder also if it'd be possible to combine the pencil with Remote Desktop software so you could use it with PC software that is stylus compatible?
I wonder also if it'd be possible to combine the pencil with Remote Desktop software so you could use it with PC software that is stylus compatible?
Shogmaster
Member
As the wireless version of Lenovo LT 1423 has shown, the lag is too obnoxious for good pen use in remote scenario.
artsi
Member
Disney got some iPad Pros for testing, here's one of the animators playing with it and it seems like they like it. The video is potato quality though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxsjFzrdFMo
I'm still on the fence between this and SP4, I just want a mobile sketchbook with good pen functionality. Cintiq Companion is too expensive for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxsjFzrdFMo
I'm still on the fence between this and SP4, I just want a mobile sketchbook with good pen functionality. Cintiq Companion is too expensive for me.
Looks good, anyone know which apps they're using? Looks like Paper towards the end, but is the first one with the monkey an Adobe one?
artsi
Member
The first one is Procreate, which will be updated for iPad Pro.
http://procreate.si/
I have it on iPad Mini, and it's pretty good, but obviously the pressure sensitivity and accuracy of Apple Pencil will be a game changer.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
http://www.creativebloq.com/adobe/how-drawing-actually-feels-apple-pencil-101517150#null
Shit shit this is making the sp4 vs iPad pro decision real hard
Shit shit this is making the sp4 vs iPad pro decision real hard
Zeyphersan
Banned
Goddamn that sounds nice
But jesus, how many iOS apps does Adobe have? Like 20? And what do they all DO?
Fantastic news. Not that I doubted Apple would nail it though. There's a reason this stylus costs more than others.
artsi
Member
Nice article. At the moment I'm leaning towards the iPad myself, it seems like Apple went all out with the Pencil.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I suspect the reason the reason the pencil costs more than others is because most of the tech used to drive it are inside the stylus and not the screen.
Also it's Apple. The stylus should be included with the IPad Pro. $99 for the pencil is ridiculous.
I'll wait to try it myself before deciding. I've been hearing "lag free" "feels like pen and paper" for years from different people describe all sorts of tablets only to realize it's bs.
Yup. The tech inside is impressive, but it's still Apple. They can afford to (and will) charge a premium.
artsi
Member
If the tech is on par like they say then I can justify the price to myself easily.
Considering the iPad Pro + Pencil will cost something like 899€ here, while the cheapest Cintiq Companion with Android is 1279€ (Windows = 1649€
.
SP4 is 999€ which is also pretty good compared to Cintiq, but above all I really need the pen to work well.
Considering the iPad Pro + Pencil will cost something like 899€ here, while the cheapest Cintiq Companion with Android is 1279€ (Windows = 1649€
.SP4 is 999€ which is also pretty good compared to Cintiq, but above all I really need the pen to work well.
3DS + Colors! App is great for on-the-go digital painting. It may not have all the bells and whistles of Photoshop but the touch screen makes precision drawing so much easier.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I think the iPad pro hardware wise compares mostly to the Galaxy note pro which has Wacom tech and costs 600, I think. I see what you're saying but I just think the pencil should be included considering they made it made a big deal about it.
artsi
Member
What I really like about the Apple Pencil is that it's actually shaped like a pencil, and like the videos show the tilt function might actually be useful this time.
I don't use tilt with my Intuos because, well look at the pen that came with it.
If you tilt it to extreme angles (like you would with a real pencil) you can't get the tip to hit the tablet. The nib is just too small.
While the Apple Pencil has a larger nib and you can tilt it further.
Looking at the internals, the whole tip is pretty differently built compared to Wacom. I'm glad they went with their own solution instead of copying.
Apple Pencil
Intuos Stylus
Of course we have to see how it fares in the real world, but theoretically this seems like they could actually beat Wacom regarding the pen design.
I don't use tilt with my Intuos because, well look at the pen that came with it.
If you tilt it to extreme angles (like you would with a real pencil) you can't get the tip to hit the tablet. The nib is just too small.
While the Apple Pencil has a larger nib and you can tilt it further.
Looking at the internals, the whole tip is pretty differently built compared to Wacom. I'm glad they went with their own solution instead of copying.
Apple Pencil
Intuos Stylus
Of course we have to see how it fares in the real world, but theoretically this seems like they could actually beat Wacom regarding the pen design.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
That's my favorite part of the pencil, pretty genius actually. Best part of the iPad pro and surface pro is that finally Wacom might start to feel the heat. Maybe with some competion they will update their aging tech, high prices and shitty drivers.
artsi
Member
Yeah agreed, while I love my Wacom, I would be very happy if they started to innovate again because of capable competition. Apple and Microsoft have the resources and I hope they continue to push the tech further.
Sure, Wacom has improved their tablets marginally adding touch etc. but the pen has been mostly the same forever since the first tablets they put out.
Considering Cintiqs still go for $1k-3k, I feel like I'm getting a pretty good bargain. Obviously there aren't $100 worth of components in the pencil, but the value proposition certainly holds up for artists.
At this point my only hesitation with iPad Pro are the apps. I'm going to wait to see how available apps work for pro workflows, but I'm leaning towards getting one.
50/50 split screen apps on the iPad Pro are both full-size iPad apps, not iPhone like the Air/mini.
Why are you comparing the pen alone to a full cintiq?
Cintiq Companion Hybrid - $799 (includes $69 pen for free)
Cintiq 13HD - $799 (includes $69 pen for free)
Samsung 12.2 Note Pro - $649 (includes $29 pen for free)
Surface Pro 4 - $899 (includes $59 pen for free)
vs
iPad Pro - $799 + Apple Pencil for "Just $99" = $898
NB: Samsung, Microsoft, Wacom pens are all cheaper and easily work with multiple devices while Apple pencil is "Just $99", works with only iPad pro and must be paired one device to one pencil.
Question is if it'll work out of the box or if users will have to wait for developers to update their apps like on the Air/mini
Always-honest
Banned
Oh shit... i might need the pro now... Or its successor
I'm comparing the complete packages. Since we're comparing low end models, that makes the iPad Pro + Pencil only $100 more than Cintiq Hybrid. An iPad Pro is a much more well rounded device than a Cintiq Hybrid, and from what we've seen has better drawing. No contest imo.
How so? You mean as a consumption device or a Pro tool? I thought you were deciding as a work tablet, if you're considering the media consumption stuff as well roundness then
The media consumption is what I meant by well rounded. You can accomplish the same things as a Cintiq, but there's also a lot more you can do on top of that. Plus Pro has better screen than Cintiq.